Records: Grosse Pointe used Detroit property to build controversial blockade without approval

Grosse Pointe Park Detroit border
The rear of the shed blocking Kercheval at the Detroit border. All photos by anonymous tipster working on Detroit border project.

Update: A Grosse Pointe Park councilman defends his city

Grosse Pointe Park quietly built a shed this summer for a farmer’s market in the middle of a main road at the border of Detroit with the intent of permanently closing off the historic east-west route.

The move was highly controversial because Kercheval is a popular route for buses and Detroiters, and it’s the fourth street along Alter that blocks off the city to traffic.

Turns out, the property on which the shed was built actually belongs to Detroit because of an anomaly along the border, according to city and other mapping data. Wayne County tax records also indicate that the property is in Detroit.

By law, Grosse Pointe Park can’t build on Detroit property without city approval, which was never sought and likely would never be received.

Detroit launched an investigation in response to our inquiry, and city crews were recently spotted examining the border.

GPP Detroit Border

Neither Grosse Pointe City Manager Dale Krajniak nor Mayor Palmer Heenan responded to interview requests. Several council members also ducked our questions.

A photographer working on a project about Detroit’s boundaries tipped us off about a notch in the city’s border at Kercheval and Alter. City and other government maps, along with tax records, indicate that the border between the two cities juts a block east, encompassing the heart of Grosse Pointe’s project to build a farmer’s market on Kercheval.

Much of the work has already been done.

To the left of the red line is Grosse Pointe Park property. To the right is Detroit.
To the left of the red line is Grosse Pointe Park property. To the right is Detroit, where the shed was built and blocks off traffic.

In general, the border between Grosse Pointe Park and Detroit follows an alley just east of Alter. But detailed mapping data from Detroit and the U.S. government show a few anomalies along the east-west border, including similar notches near Charlevoix and E. Jefferson to accommodate large buildings.

Grosse Pointe Park’s charter does not account for the anomalies.

So what does this mean for the farmer’s market? It may depend on whether the city of Detroit challenges the blockade.

Mayor Duggan, who has managed to avoid controversy during his first year so far, is withholding comment until the completion of a city investigation.

During the winter, Grosse Pointe Park occasionally blocked the same road with mounds of snow.

The road closure comes at a time when the community is still trying to overcome a police scandal in which white officers were humiliating a mentally impaired black man.

Grosse Pointe has blocked six roads along Alter:

Steve Neavling

Steve Neavling lives and works in Detroit as an investigative journalist. His stories have uncovered corruption, led to arrests and reforms and prompted FBI investigations.

  • maggiemay

    Why are you still harping on this? What happens, happens. While it isn’t the most asthecially pleasing structure from either side, I was there today and there were people enjoying it from both cities. Perhaps it will be a unifying thing instead of a divisive thing and it’s certainly better than the wasteland it was. Your being divisive by continuing to report on this. It’s not news and it’s not journalism, it’s “muckraking”. Let the cities work it out and then report on it. Then it will be news.

  • Barbara Anne Wynder

    FOCUS people, the issue here is WHETHER THE CITY OF GROSSE POINTE HAS THE LEGAL RIGHT TO BUILD THE TRAFFIC OBSTRUCTION ON CITY OF DETROIT PROPERTY WITHOUT THE CITY’S PERMISSION? Who cares what they do on their own property!

    • Oberyn_Martell

      They did build it legally Steve just doesn’t care to send an update or retraction because then it wouldn’t create a race debate.

  • RadioRon

    Steve, could you please go back and correct your map and diagram. The boundary between Detroit and Grosse Pointe Park is 200 feet East of the center line of Alter Road, as the GPP Charter states. This was affirmed in court decisions in 1981 and 1982.

    http://www.leagle.com/decision/1981430109MichApp321_1397

    http://digitize.gp.lib.mi.us/digitize/newspapers/gpnews/1980-84/81/1981-09-17.pdf GP News September 17, 1981

    http://digitize.gp.lib.mi.us/digitize/newspapers/gpnews/1980-84/82/1982-06-03.pdf GP News June 3, 1982
    This placed the boarder about 60 feet West of the West side of Wayburn. GPP subsequently successfully annexed the rear of the residential lots on the west side of Wayburn and Barrington and all the property of Windmill Pointe Park to move the boarder in these areas to the rear property line and to Alter road at the park. This was not done in the business districts on Mack, Kercheval and Jefferson. This created the jog East in the boarder at these points.
    Could you also please take a measuring tape and tell us all if these sheds are within 200 feet of the center line of Alter Road so the article is factual.
    Thank you.

  • jmusa

    It is unfortunate regarding the attitudes in G.P. and the Detroit line on Alter rd. G.Pointe residents can have a really nasty attitude. When I’m in the D. I leave close to the Alter rd. Border. In fairness most other cities can have folk with nasty attitudes when you’re not white and trying to have a better environment from Seattle to Chicago. The only answer is fair employment opportunities and acceptance of diversity with a zero tolerance for crime. The Detroit metropolitan area could become the model for the country.

  • lingvistika

    Earlier I pointed out some journalistic sloppiness and some false information here. The sloppy part of the article was corrected, but the intentional attempts to convey misimpressions weren’t, and my post was deleted. Let’s see if this one stays up.

    It is false that Grosse Pointe Park has blocked six streets at the border. The blockage at Windmill Pointe and Alter was created by Detroit when the city replaced the very old, dangerous bridge leading to Angel Park with a new banked bridge. Because of the new bridge’s design, it would be dangerous, if not impossible to feed a side street into that section of Alter so close to the bridge, so access to and from Grosse Pointe Park is blocked there. Detroit blocked it.

    Korte has a steep bridge crossing the canal. We used to use this as a thrill ride as teenagers. You could come up at a high speed and go airborne over the bridge. Blocking Korte at Alter takes away this temptation and protects Detroiters and Grosse Pointers from joyriding teenagers building up speed along Korte to fly over the bridge. The streets next to Korte — Avondale and Essex — have no such hazard, are not blocked, and are accessible from Detroit.

    Goethe St. does not extend into Detroit at Alter, and it only goes about a block and a half into Grosse Pointe. Blocking that removes traffic confusion, because there were probably more people turning into Goethe, saying, “Huh?” and turning around than there were people entering the street to go somewhere. Charlevoix and Vernor are still open and accessible from Detroit.

    Brooks St., which is the last half block of St. Paul, does not continue on the Detroit side of Alter, so there was never any through traffic.

    With those streets blocked, there are still about 40 other streets by which people can enter Grosse Pointe Park from Detroit. I use them a few times a week.

    Because the neighborhoods along Kercheval on the Detroit side are nearly deserted (much of the area is a prairie now) and Detroit long ago blocked all through streets between Jefferson and Mack from Connor to St. Jean, there was nearly no traffic crossing the city limits at Kercheval anyway, and that traffic can easily be handled by Jefferson, Vernor, Charlevoix and Mack, from which access to Grosse Pointe Park is easy.

  • lingvistika

    This journalist doesn’t know that the City of Grosse Pointe does not border on Detroit in the Alter/Wayburn area, but only at Mack Ave. Does this guy even know there are several municipalities called Grosse Pointe? The city manager and mayor of Grosse Pointe? Which one? There are five of them.

    The statement that “Grosse Pointe” has blocked six roads along Alter is false. The block at Windmill Pointe and Alter was constructed by Detroit when it tore out the old, unsafe bridge to Angel Park and built a new one that’s wider and banked. Because of the way it’s engineered, a side street can’t feed into that embankment.

    Nor does the journalist go into any of the possible reasons why some of the other streets might have been closed. For example, Korte has a steep bridge at Alter that, as teenagers, we used to use as a thrill ride. You’d come up on it at a high speed and go airborne. Closing Korte would take that temptation away from teenage joyriders and protect Detroiters in the neighborhoods the kids sped through to fly over the bridge. The two streets next to Korte, Avondale and Essex, do not have such bridges and are not closed.

    Goethe St. does not continue on the Detroit side, and extends only a block and a half inside Grosse Pointe Park to a dead end. Closing it removes some traffic confusion, since there was probably more traffic involving people turning into Goethe, saying, “Huh?” and turning back around than of people actually going anywhere. Brooks St., which is the last half block of St. Paul, also does not continue on the Detroit side.

    But don’t worry: Closing down six streets still leaves more than 40 other ways to enter Grosse Pointe Park from Detroit.

    • MickinDetroit

      Doesn’t matter, you’re clearly just a shill for the racists that populate GP.

      • lingvistika

        Accusing is easier than thinking, isn’t it MickinDetroit!

        • MickinDetroit

          and sarcasm is hard to communicate in a comment. 🙂

  • Ryan Healy

    Welp.

  • Mariano_H

    ”The road closure comes at a time when the community is still trying to overcome a police scandal in which white officers were humiliating a mentally impaired black man.” If you are going to bring that up Steve, maybe you should do a follow up on that guy. I believe he robbed a number of people, rang a womans door bell and clobbered her in the face with a hammer, and has been linked to a number of breaks ins. Why mention this, but no follow up on this guy. This has nothing more to do with a road then detroiters stealing from fire stations why the firemen are gone, or robbing trucks of jaws of life has to do with opening a new refurbished balduck park. If you were going to hint at other stories, hint at other towns that rerouted streets. That would be something nice to mention.

    • Small point, but do you realize that you seem to use “then” when you mean “than”.

      • Mariano_H

        Yes. I know the difference but I type too fast, too poorly, and I must have some sort of mental block. In person when I speak I use the correct word. Sorry, I have no good explanation for why I do it.

  • Tommy Onefinger

    Cheap mediocre pseudo journalist with unconfirmed sources.
    Stop writing your stories in bars and stop igniting racial fires for comments.
    STOP CENSORING COMMENTS EITHER. DONT TAKE IT DOWN AGAIN.

  • rhoneyman

    steve,

    do you have some sort of potion that attracts racists? this is almost as bad as yahoo.

    • Dust Buster

      dont blame the website owner….this has much more to do with obumba

  • Judi Blueye

    Ooops!

  • Gregory Creswell

    They can go ahead and block streets but do it on G.P.P. property.

    • Oberyn_Martell

      They did

    • Thank you for your permission, but it turns out that it is our property. I am sure the correction/retraction will be posted any moment.

  • Tommy Onefinger

    Cheap mediocre pseudo journalist

  • Tommy Onefinger

    Y?

  • Tommy Onefinger

    Cheap mediocre pseudo journalist with alleged unconfirmed sources. Stop writing your stories from what you hear in bars.
    Help Detroit change and stop dividing it from the rest of Michigan.
    Talentless journalists like you ignite racial fires for a couple of comments.

    • Dust Buster

      the only reason i want a quick correction is because brenda jones is driving a ferguson enterprises bulldozer up jefferson and she has a crowd of no justice no peace zombies and they are carrying torches and pick axes. she said they were going to tear that sukka down and take back the cities jewels

  • Oberyn_Martell

    Steve you plan on posting an update that the closure is in fact in GPP and not Detroit? Or is that not inflammatory enough?

    • MickinDetroit

      I’m going with “no”.

  • Marian Pyszko

    The fears of violent crimes committed by black Detroiters are real, not imagined. We dont see or hear of white suburbanites driving to Detroit to commit rape, robbery, home invasions or car jackings. Graffiti is about the extent of crime committed in Detroit by white suburbanites. Coleman A Young liked to blast gun control advocates believing black Detroiters needed guns to protect themselves from “hostile suburbs.” That of course was pure b.s. Palmer Park in Detroit too has multiple barriers blocking access to their neighborhood.

    • Mariano_H

      that was atleast built back in the 20s when detroit was controlled by whites. I like to refer to harbor town which was when detroit was about 75% white, and the developement by connor or dickerson. Its mid level apartments and or condos with a guard house, then further back there are 1920s houses maybe 2 left out of a dozen original 1920s mansions with boat slips. Then new homes, circa 1995-2001 new mc mansions, many of which are owned by you guessed it, monied black people who want to keep other people away from them.

      • Marian Pyszko

        so… monied black people are trying to keep what “other people” away? white criminals from the suburbs trying to home invade them?? why try to sugar coat the issue…. ?

    • Dust Buster

      palmer park was a low blow. how can butch hollowell get hookers 1/4 mile from his sleeping wife and kids and remain an esteemed and respected consultant for the democrat party? even aspiring huxtable type blacks dont want to rub shoulders with democrat ghetto blacks.

      like i always say it aint color, its culture

  • Moderately Intelligent

    Have any of you even seen where they built the shed? What it looks like 10 feet across alter? The best thing to happen to that area before this was that a stray Detroit dog took a dump on the corner next to some 8 ft tall grass and dandelions.

    • Moondoggie

      That ugly shed looks prefab.. GPP can just move their shed across the intersection to their side of the border. Keep the statue of the sail boat and the roundabout. And put up some real barricades instead of a wood shack to prevent cars from driving through.

      • Dust Buster

        how about if you focus on getting university of michigan ranked higher in football than sexual assaults?

        • Moondoggie

          That’s a marvelously intelligent and on point response. Congratulations!

          • Dust Buster

            i was just doing tit for tat…its all good

          • Moondoggie

            Not, it’s not “all good”. That shed is ugly on top of being superfluous to the operation of a farmers’ market. I have no problem with blocking the street. A row of concrete posts would look better and actually prevent cars from driving through. What any of that has to do with the Michigan football program or sexual assault is beyond me. And another BTW, except for being out of place in this thread I totally agree with you, sexual assault at the University of Michigan is a big problem, at least when I was there which was many years ago.

  • curious

    Just trying to clarify. Please see my post below and help me understand why closing this street is such a negative thing while closing 7 streets to build Victoria park was such a positive thing.

    • curious

      Still waiting.

  • rhoneyman

    good job, steve.

    • MickinDetroit

      except per Rod Meloni and the Register of Deeds, this total bunk.

      but he got clicks for his tabloid.

  • awhite

    Whether you agree or not isn’t even really the issue. The issue is the land doesn’t belong to them, they took it, unlawfully. And since busses, city busses go down that street it’s a bigger issue for the city than Grosse Pointe. I’m interested in seeing what is done about it.

    • MickinDetroit

      I thought DDot went down Charelvoix?

    • Mariano_H

      any cities rights to make its streets how it wants, trumps a bus line.

      By the way, the bus has to turn at the golf course in GP anyway. And its but a few hundred yards from mack.

      Are you suggesting that they need a bus line every 1/8th of a mile?

      Should we put a bus tunnel under the golf course ?

    • RadioRon

      There are SMAT bus lines down Charlevoix and Kercheval through GP, but they Turn down Maryland to Jefferson. The closure does not change any bus route.

  • Rosemund Elliot

    Wait, so GPP just built us a new farmers market, but they pointed the shed the wrong way?

  • Sizz

    Sounds like the perfect job for Duggan; will he have the balls to do anything about it?

    • rhoneyman

      it’s a technical/legal issue. this will be worked out between the two municipalities.

  • Moderately Intelligent

    Let’s just say your petty suspicions are true for the sake of argument… Any city desires to raise their property values. Grosse Pointe Park is a separate city from Detroit. Grosse Pointe is a safe and beautiful community. Detroit has a lot of amazing things going on. Alter and Kercheval is not one of those areas. In fact it’s an abandoned dump. Anyone offended by that is just being sensitive. It’s where we went in our teens if we wanted to by alcohol at 14 years old. So my point is, if every city wants to raise it’s property value, why wouldn’t Grosse Pointe want to create dead end streets? It’s not a wall. It’s just blocking it off to traffic. If they see that as a way to raise property value, then it is smart and logical. Sorry that the reality is that part of Detroit is worse than Mad Max, but this is just reality people.

    • Curious

      Detroit built Victoria Park, totally surrounded by an iron fence, closing 7 streets to through traffic and only accessible down 1 street with a guard house. It is also patrolled by private security. This was hailed as economic progress. Please help me understand the difference.

      • Dust Buster

        clearly you dont know about melanin math. its a formula one uses when standard math wont result in the answer some people want to hear.

      • Mariano_H

        because black people.

        There are two gated communities near by this development in detroit. One near connor on jefferson, and also harbor town.

        Never saw race mentioned in either. Thats weird.

    • Mariano_H

      it was a dump 20 years ago. Now its just shocking. It has changed so much in the last 20 years. It looks like a real post war, or post disaster area.

  • Dust Buster

    maybe gp can reach out in a healing and conciliatory manner. what if they agree to build a statue of civil rights icon steven utash in the area in question. think of it as a bookend to the joe louis fist at the other end of jefferson. a win win for all. both culturally and esthetically pleasing to be enjoyed by peoples of all colors and regions

    • Gary

      How about they have a bronze cast of Steven Utash wrestling Malice Green?

      • Dust Buster

        utash had a cracked head and malice was a crack head…… i see what you did there. almost Picasso-esque in its complexity….yet simple enough for the average cass techie to grasp

        well played indeed

        • Today was first time ever on this site and I’ve posted responses to two day old messages which no one is likely to read, but Dust Buster, your tone is so negative. What are you so angry about? What good does it do to be nasty?

  • new_detroit

    As someone who just moved to Detroit from New York and was previously using the street (even with the gigantic hole it was still usable), I find this blockade appalling. It’s clearly a thinly veiled attempt to keep Detroiters out of Grosse Pointe. I’m sure it will hurt the businesses on the street. I know I’m not going there as frequently. Too bad too since I liked Sprout House.

    • Dust Buster

      welcome to detroit. glad you adopted the victim and they stealin the cities jewels mentality so fast….

      and if you are that thin skinned and sensitive to “boycott” or not go to a place you like because you have to walk a few extra steps then you deserve to feel sad.

      • Mike Reade

        Dust Buster, congratulations to Grosse Pointe on giving credence to the paranoid rantings of the fringe conspiracists on the Detroit city council. It was stupid and arrogant for GPP’s politicians to think they could literally grab land without anyone noticing. Unfortunately, that’s par for the course when it comes to GPers.

        • MickinDetroit

          was it arrogance or incompetence?

          further, why is it any concern of the City Council of Detroit what GP does with it’s streets?

          Should GPP city weigh in on all the street closures in Sherwood Forest and Palmer park?

          • Mike Reade

            GPP built the shed in Detroit without Detroit’s consent.

          • MickinDetroit

            I understand that is an issue… but if the shed WASNT across the line, the matter still is “controversial” because apparently what GP does with a street in it’s municipality is subject to approval from Detroit.

          • Oberyn_Martell

            It appears the closure is partially built in Detroit so that’s why they care. I disagree with many assessments here that it was done on purpose. If they had known the variance there they likely would have built the structure several yards further into GP so there would be no dispute.

          • MickinDetroit

            so.. incompetence.

            Curious no one noticed on the Detroit side until just now….if it was such common knowledge.

          • Marc Krauter

            We noticed and were told this wouldn’t happen.

          • MickinDetroit

            which it apparently didn’t… if the register of deeds is to be believed

          • Judi Blueye

            You are being deliberately obtuse, but I suspect you know that.

          • MickinDetroit

            No. I’m not. What I am doing is not defaming an entire community by calling them racist or elitist for making decisions about how to route streets.

          • I use Kercheval every day.

        • Dust Buster

          its equally arrogant to grab other peoples tax dollars when you provide nothing in return. look at gp like the only rich relative that will still let you stumble home whenever you want. feed and cloth you and let you sleep on the couch and never ask you to so much as pick up your clothes or kick in a bit for the cable bill

          • Mike Reade

            Additional congratulations on helping feed the stereotype (reality) of GPers being condescending, arrogant, cliquish d-bags.

      • new_detroit

        What are you talking about? All I know is I used to be able to drive my car down the street and now I have to cut through a super narrow residential street that’s not fit for 2 way traffic. So practically speaking, I just can’t get to those businesses anymore.

        • Mariano_H

          Anyone born in detroit in the 1920-1950s can say the same. Their used to be open fields, farms etc. Everything you think is right or wrong, you have the duty to ask, did detroit also do it, and do I think doing the same thing is wrong in the next town, but not the town I live in. I suggest you do think that way. You are a hype man for Detroit. It can do no wrong. Things it actually did, that you think would be wrong in dearborn, or GP or Warren or harper woods, you think its fine that detroit did it in the past.

    • Oberyn_Martell

      Trust me this is a far bigger inconvenience for people living in GP than people living in Detroit.

      • new_detroit

        I imagine it is with all this new traffic routed down a residential street. That is in no way safe or responsible planning. I would hate to live around the new traffic areas in GP and I bet they’re not too happy about it.

        • Mariano_H

          depends, you did not list how much traffic, or what is deemed a safe level. You are projecting feelings. I assure you the way things work in GP, when they do things like this, it ALWAYS involves a traffic study of the area where they sample and monitor the traffic. Then they have a consulting firm process the data. The last couple times it was a university professor.

          Closing off one street at one spot reduces traffic from both directions on kercehval. You are very emotional new detroit. You always assume the worst. You apparently are not aware there is a directions to turn about every 300ft. So closing off kerceval means you can turn left or right, any number of streets.

          Do you really not want traffic, you seem to be a fan of big cities. This is an urban suburb. No big lawns, this is mostly 35ft wide 120-200 ft deep lots. Over by this intersection many homes do no even have a driveway.

          • Scott Koue

            Actually it’s a bit of a pain to get around. If you turn right you have to almost to Jefferson before there is a through street and if you turn left you can go through an alley that is not maintained so it’s a pretty rough ride, or you have to go again fairly far before you can cross over. When the big hole closed the street for months I talked to the Point Hardware people and they had noticed the down tick in business because of it so there is an impact.
            They didn’t do a traffic survey, at least not a real one. They didn’t even look at the actual border map.

            Is it going to stop me, no. The only place likely to loose a bit of my business is the hardware store since I won’t be passing by as often.

            It’s not “racist” or “classist” but it is kind of stupid. On the map it looks like there is possibly going to be a jog you need to take to get around it. If that is the case then it’s only a minor inconvenience. But building it in the wrong spot is just stupid.

            And to the guy who can’t find anything to do… I moved from San Francisco and if you can’t find anything to do in Detroit you are not trying. For bars you really are not trying, for restaurants it was a lot closer to your bleak perspective some years ago, but not today. Yes it’s not San Francisco or New York but there are some very good restaurants in Detroit.

            And Russell, San Francisco and NYC are a LOT easier to get around. One thing Detroit really does lack is decent public transportation.

      • I’ve almost driven through it a couple mornings on my way to the boat. Totally on autopilot when all the sudden there’s a building in front of me!

    • GinaCole

      Why would anyone move to Detroit?

      • new_detroit

        I moved here because I like the diverse population, cool architecture/graffiti/abandoned buildings and because it’s an urban environment that’s in flux so it feels like you can make an individual impact on the city.

        It’s been great so far! Aside from this new blockade in the middle of the street I used to drive down for lunch a few times a week…

        • Dust Buster

          is it hard to find cool diverse and tasty places to eat in detroit? i mean its such a nice place and thats why you moved there why would you eat in a place where rich mean people put up things that make people make 3 extra turns

          • new_detroit

            No, it’s not hard to find places good places in Detroit to eat (I’m looking at you Mudgies!). That’s sort of my point. Now that it’s no longer convenient, I don’t go to GP as much. Competition is real and arrogance will only hurt the business owners in GP.

          • MickinDetroit

            I mean, not for nothing, but you realize that the business owners are the ones backing this right? they think (perhaps wrongly…remains to be seen) this will enhance the area and knock some of the rust off that stretch of Kercheval in GP.

          • new_detroit

            I’m not sure who’s backing it, but logistically speaking it’s made it harder to give them money, so that’s not good for them.

          • MickinDetroit

            I just told you who’s backing it. The Cotton Family is much of the money behind it.. but they have the local business community on board and they all are putting their money where their mouths are by opening new stuff there.

            Logistically speaking, if making one tiny detour or parking and walking a half block more. is so difficult that you’ll boycott the area, I have to say you’ve adjusted to the typical MetroDetroiter’s fucked up mentality that they must be able to drive everywhere and have parking directly in front of any destination that is the main reason we don’t have mass transit.

          • new_detroit

            Maybe they should take some city planning lessons.

          • MickinDetroit

            Perhaps.. .but if the reception of the locals, the packed farmers market, the busting at the seams monthly streetfest, and the new restaurants and bars are any indication of how things are going, I’m going to say it seems to be going to plan.

          • Oberyn_Martell

            The closure including stalls, sidewalk and statue are all funded by the city and the GPP Foundation.

          • MickinDetroit

            …of course, totally independent of any direction, encouragement, or assistance from the cotton family. And they didn’t purchase and tear down any buildings to make way for this either…. or bankroll Red Crown, or Atwater.. or the bakery

          • Oberyn_Martell

            I never said their private ventures weren’t their own. What I did say is a street closing and the market stalls were a city decision using city funds. The Foundation is donating the statue. If they did fund any part of that there would be public city record of it.

          • MickinDetroit

            I guess you’re taking my “backing it” comment more literally than it was meant. The city and GPPF wouldn’t be doing anything but for the outside direction. It wasn’t their plan.

          • Oberyn_Martell

            Well you said much of the money behind it. In terms of closing the street and building the stalls I disagreed. I agree there was a Crain’s article detailing much of what they were doing in investment there and how they wanted a walkable commercial district. Sorry for taking you too literally.

          • Mariano_H

            you are correct. also that assumes it will not appeal MORE to a new segment of people.

            Its not static. They think if you remove cars coming from detroit, oh noes ! How can it stay open!

            Mr. Cotton is a very smart man, this will do well, that whole part of GP is his project for the coming years. It will look very different in 10 years than it does now. It will be for the better.

            The same cannot be said about just over alter road. In ten years there will be 1-3 houses max on every block, all in bad shape. No hope for decades.

          • You never know. Detroit is huge geographically and there are a bunch of hot spots. I’ve seen dramatic change in my short two years in the city. So to say “no hope for decades” is not only pessimistic, but also unknowable.

          • Scott Koue

            A few things to point out. Mr. Cottons plans were not liked by a lot of the businesses. A bunch were forced out when he bought the building. The hardware store is not too keen on it either but they own the building and wouldn’t sell to him.

            But in the long term it is probably good for the area. They are actively going after young professionals and students and the new places that have opened up are pretty nice. It’s inconvenient for me (I’m usually passing through so it’s not because I’m too lazy to walk a few blocks) but not sure how much traffic they actually get coming from Detroit so?

            They certainly would have had a lot more if some moron hadn’t allowed a factory to be built across it back when.

            One thing they may be missing is that IF they were really thinking about it the easiest place to expand would be west into Detroit so they may rethink the access down the line. The potential is for that section to really be desolate is real since expansion from downtown is going to be a LONG way off AND it would have to jump over the car plant. So if I were living in GPP I would want at least the next few blocks over to get populated.

          • Oberyn_Martell

            Which business had to leave besides Full Circle? I wouldn’t bring up Janet’s Lunch because that place must have been paying the health inspector off. Not to mention the structural integrity is incredibly compromised.

          • Dust Buster

            right on. we have the nations fattest obese poor …if not in the world. we have 300 pound poor women regularly featured on the news. long nails and hair with tats and big as a house and they are poor and demanding something

          • Dust Buster

            maybe they want certain money? some places covet the ebt crowd. some places covet the amex and expense account crowd while others like cash only. thats the great thing is they have a right to choose and people have a right to patronize them or go somewhere else.

          • Mariano_H

            What other east side towns have markets like this?

            Ok, there is the competition. No one.

          • Dust Buster

            well then let you money do the talking. im sure that place wont miss you. now go there turn west and go a few blocks or a mile and buy your shit. eat it. enjoy it. and hope you dont get utashed

          • Mariano_H

            I know you are joking but the streets by this round about, for non east siders, they may not know these are cheaply built sided homes. Not brick, no fancy insides. Many, most on the blocks near alter are rentals, and many are duplexs. They rent cheap. There are tons of blacks there, tons of immigrants, tons of college kids. Many have no driveway. They look like the larger homes in hamtramack. These are not mansions. These were homes for working class people in the 1920s. Now they are almost 100 years old, and have been rental homes for 40 years or more.

            Its not a big money part of GP.

        • MickinDetroit

          I’ve always sort of wondered at the “diversity” label being used here. How is a city that is 80% one race that “diverse”? its a whole lot less diverse than NYC.

          • new_detroit

            I didn’t find NYC to be all that diverse anymore. Diversity extends beyond ethnicity. In NYC there may be people from around the world, but they’re mostly rich. That’s a shared culture.

            My background is very different from most in Detroit (or GP), so in that sense I’m very much enjoying the diversity.

          • Guest

            are you enjoying diversity or being around a whole lot more people like yourselff? Because it sounds a whole lot like the later and not the former.

          • new_detroit

            I already said I’m not similar to most in the area, and I enjoy that! 🙂

          • rhoneyman

            amazing how even positive comments draw out the venom. welcome to the hood and congratulations on escaping nyc (brrr…). 🙂

          • new_detroit

            Thank you!! Yeah, I’m a little taken aback by the tone of some in here.

          • Kelly H

            Welcome to Detroit. Everyone who doesn’t and won’t experience Detroit speak quite definitively about the city. Won’t step 2cms within the city limits but speak negatively about it in a matter of fact tone. What I find to be quite interesting is that these same people have never experienced any type of city living and think that the only city that has corruption, crime, pockets of beauty, and people who vouch for a place like this is only Detroit. Smh. It can be quite annoying but at some point you just have to walk away because you can help an ignorant person who thinks they have nothing to learn. How would they think that though, they’re ignorant.

          • new_detroit

            Thank you for the welcome! I’ve lived in many cities and I’m happy to add Detroit to the list. Very cool so far.

          • rhoneyman

            all i can say about the responses to your comments is wow. just wow.

            i found the comment about dissing nyc especially amusing. you should be pilloried, sir! 🙂

          • new_detroit

            Thank you Kelly. It’s is annoying 🙂

          • For what it’s worth, I am fairly sure there is a couple sock puppet accounts on here. (One person posting as several.)

            But basically, there are a lot of racist/classist white folks in Detroit. Not everyone, but the ones who are end up being very loud, cantankerous and distracting.

            I hope you have a wonderful time living in Detroit as I did growing up there. (I now live in New Orleans.)

          • Dust Buster

            the demographics show about maybe less than 10% of detroit is white. they dont have a voice or support in dc or lansing unless they are liberals. not sure what you are trying to imply but i think you are off base

          • new_detroit

            Thank you matsie. I’ve been around the internet enough to know trolls when I see them. I’ll stop feeding them now 🙂

            Detroit has been great so far except this new found attitude of some of the more ignorant locals. Sadly this will be more likely to keep newcomers out than any of Detroit’s other problems (not me, I’m sticking around).

            I’m embarrassed to show this thread to my non-Detroit friends (and of the original blockade).

          • Kelly H

            These aren’t Detroit locals that you are encountering, as I’ve said before these are folks who don’t dare step foot in Detroit to live. A Tigers, Red Wings or Lions game sure; the Hoe Down as well. Smh, ppl and their opinions.

          • Mariano_H

            it was not a positive comment. He was slamming NYC, and any area he thinks is not diverse. Which calls in his ability to tell, as NYC is arguably the most diverse place in the modern industrialized world.

          • I think the Bay Area holds that title, but my info is dated as I left SF in ’93.

          • MickinDetroit

            so what you find value in/enjoy is being a minority in a very non-diverse place. Which is fine..but that doesn’t mean detroit is anymore diverse than a place that’s 80% white like Warren.

          • Mariano_H

            Nice observation. Diverse does not mean 100s of nationalities, people who make 20k to 200 million bucks, old money, fresh off the boat hatian with aids and three dollars. NAH thats not diverse.

            It means white hipsters in a white hipster neighborhood, near a black neighborhood.

            Ahhh bask in the diversity. It powers my home.

          • Dust Buster

            the term diversity, like tolerance has been co-opted and bastardized by liberals and afro racists. they define what it means like hate speech.

            its part of their m.o. label something, bitch and cry and demand enough until it gets changed or redefined. they hate diversity when it doesn’t fit their agenda but when they want to infiltrate, ruin or destroy something with hope and change then its ok.

            again the most intolerant and nasty people around are liberals

          • Mariano_H

            rich is not a homogenous culture. It is a trait, thats all. Not even all rich people even live to the full capability. I know about 2 dozen rich people that live like school teachers. They have three bedroom homes in a nice area sure, but I know how many people they employ, I have an idea of the revenue of their company. They could afford 2-3 million dollar homes. They live in 300k homes. A few live in 170k homes they bought when they were 24. All rich people are the same, as much as all black people are the same.

            Also NYC is not manhattan. Much of NYC is a crap hole full of people on assistance. This makes me think you never went to NYC, except in your dreams.

          • b4Him

            Your 1st sentence says,”rich is not a [homogeneous] culture.” Do you know what homogeneous means? Because at the end of the paragraph you say “All rich people are the same, as much as all black people are the same.” Your conclusion fails.

          • Marian Pyszko

            and most of the people in Detroit are poor and illiterate….. that is culture to you??

          • b4Him

            Incorrect. Misinformation regarding 50% literacy rate in Detroit is based on 20 year old data. 2011 news reports about illiteracy in Detroit failed to thoroughly review the data and made false conclusions. Updated data shows the illiteracy rate 6% to 12% in Detroit. Incomes in Detroit range from 10K to 200K.

          • Marian Pyszko

            I guess the 2010 Census is “misinformation” and Detroit is paved with gold……

            https://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/american_community_survey_acs/cb12-r18.html

          • Oberyn_Martell

            Hahahahahahah! Hey man I’m bullish on Detroit probably to a fault but you’re out of your mind if you believe the illiteracy rate is that low. Maybe if you only count the decent neighborhoods that it was simple to collect data in.

          • Dust Buster

            Median household income in Detroit, 2008-2012 $26,955

            thats the number that matters when talking about income demographics.

          • Scott Koue

            From your link

            “Among Detroit’s 25-and-older population, 77.4 percent completed high school or more”. That would put illiteracy at a maximum of 22.6. High but not a majority. The poverty rate is also high but no where near a majority.

            You forgot to mention the great cultural assets in GPP. The Symphony, Ballet, Art museums, theatres and sports facilities. Oh that’s right you don’t have any. So that is what you cal culture?

            Actually it’s what used to be called a “bedroom community” because the only thing to do was sleep there.

          • Oberyn_Martell

            That’s because it is a bedroom community. It’s not stand alone city it’s basically a neighborhood of Detroit. You want symphony you drive 15 minutes to the DSO. You want art you drive 15 min to the DIA. Sports, you drive 15 min to the Joe or Comerica. But it does have everyday needs like good grocery stores, a couple of decent restaurants and lots of lake access for water sports. Not too shabby really.

          • Scott Koue

            Well you see my comment was responding to the one that said there was no culture in Detroit. Your response just drives that home, when you want culture you come to Detroit.

          • Oberyn_Martell

            Not that I necessarily agree with the poster but I would say he’s not really referring to cultural arts which is different than say a culture where education is respected. Again not saying I agree that there isn’t one but it’s not really the same way you’re viewing it.

          • Marian Pyszko

            So what is holding Detroit back then if it has it all? Or is Detroit great the way it is today?

          • Scott Koue

            Hmmm, I never used the word Great. And it has some things, one thing it lacks is a tax base the size of the city bureaucracy.

            What’s holding it back? Ah lets see a city built for 2 mil with 700,000 residence, a history of wanton corruption leading to a bankruptcy, loss of many “normal” city services, a huge blight removal bill coming down the line, massive job losses, gutting of the film incentives, high unemployment, higher crime than it should have. A lot of those feed off each other so fix one and many others will improve. In the last three years most of the above has started to turn around. It probably will continue to improve but it could also go down the tubes, hard to say. The core problems of really bad corruption go WAY back. It was just hidden by huge amounts of money coming in when you had a full city and full employment.

          • Marian Pyszko

            Isn’t it better to let nature take its course in Detroit rather then put more money into this thing that is broken beyond repair? The “Model Cities” program back in the 1960s gave Detroit hundreds of millions of dollars and this is what we have as a legacy of all that social spending?

          • Scott Koue

            The 60’s? So we are going to make decisions now based on bad decisions made 50+ years ago.

            Nature has very little to do with Cities and pardon me if I’m not paying a lot of credence to your opinion of what is “beyond repair” especially since you seem to know so little about Detroit.

            I get it you are terrified by black people and have this little box you put them all in because they are all the same, poor and illiterate. Because all white people are the same right?
            Stereotypes are just that. There is always some truth to them but they take everyone in which makes them mostly false.

            Detroits #1 problem has been corruption. It’s what sucked the money out and didn’t keep the infrastructure up to date.

            And with a few gaps that corruption goes solidly back to the start of the 1900’s.

            If you were right (about Detroit) and you thought about it for a 1/2 second you would be very unhappy about it. Take all the businesses in Detroit and make them relocate to another major city (that leaves out pretty much all of Michigan and certainly anyplace around here) and all the other cities around here crash also. The immediate ones wouldn’t even have drinking water.

            All those “15 minutes and I’m at…” turn into trips to Chicago. And you are scared of Detroit now, think of 150 square miles of badlands. It’s fun to make jokes about Mad Max, but you REALLY don’t want that on your doorstep. If I lived in any of the burbs I would be praying every night that crazy folks in detroit find an answer to the cities downturn.

          • Marian Pyszko

            Yes, we are going back to the 60s and beyond.. why keep making the same mistakes over and over again? Keep pouring money down this bottomless pit called Detroit and expect different results because its decades later??? Attitudes are the problem. The expectation that money will come without work must change. Sitting on porches and street corners drinking and doing drugs is no excuse. Then having white suburbanites come in and clean up the mess is not the answer. Yes, let Detroit revert to Mad Max; there’s enough legally armed people now in the region to push the degenerates back into their holes. There is nothing wrong with a legally armed person defending his house, family and friends with some 00 buck. I’m ready… are you?

          • Scott Koue

            Ahhh Tea Party suburban preppers, speaking of illiterate and ignorant pin heads…

            Have a good day

          • Marian Pyszko

            Libertarian my friend. Rand Paul 2016 🙂

          • Mariano_H

            preach. I say that all the time. GP is more diverse. There are many middle eastern and asian, and east asian, islanders etc in GP. GPP is more than 10 percent black! Detroit is NOT diverse. San fran is diverse. LA is diverse.

          • Dust Buster

            but its not the kind of diversity liberals want. when they say diversity they mean a group of some type they like taking over or forcing themselves on a group that they dont like like.

        • Mariano_H

          buying a house in one area does not have more impact then a few miles in any other direction. If anything it has less impact, your house is worth less and you are spending less.

          You are not a hero, you are not saving the world. You merely bought a house.

          Its no different then buying a home in romeo, port huron, marine city etc or areas that would turn your stomach for not being diverse enough for you.

          • Dust Buster

            i know its like those low information/expectation that says things like “i pay my bills”….”im a grown ass man”…..i cloth and feed my keeds” like its some fuqin global championship achievement….its a normal expected function of being a human being….its what separates us from god damn sharks and cheetahs

        • OpusX_X

          So, in other words you like to live in a sh**thole. Got it.

      • Where do you live?

    • Mariano_H

      explain how that works ? Something like 20-30,000 people will cross at mack and jefferson each day. Ten percent of GPP is black, which is also recent detroit transplants in the last 15 years. Then there is the problem that even if they blocked off all of alter, and just made a 9 ft tall wall, about 90 percent of the streets go from mack to jefferson, if not they go 2/3 and some stop at kercheval, or end at charlevoix, beaupre ridge road, st paul.

      Explain the logical end of this. Explain how this works. If its about hating blacks, there is a growing black population behind this wall they want to build. The other end of the points is bordered by towns with tons of blacks like harper woods. Harper Woods is about half black or more, and they share the schools with the precious kids of the vile white racists. South end of scs is very black. What good does it do to put a wall all the way down alter. Oh noes! We are surrounded by blacks on all side but the lake! By the way I know of atleast 5 blacks that live on lakeshore and windmill pointe. There is no escaping them! They are even coming from the part with the 2 million plus homes dollar homes!

      Seriously, if you are going to make these claims, back them up. Where is this going.

      Do you think they will kick everyone darker then a greek or italian out of all the points, then build a glass dome over it, or make a moat and a bridge you have to cross?

    • Bryan Patrick Harris

      I also just moved to Detroit from New York, and I promise that you can still get to Grosse Pointe if you make a cursory attempt to arrive there. I’ve been there many times, and I’m extremely confident that I could return.

      If Detroiters and their media could get as vocal about business development in the tech industry as they are about Grosse Pointe building a shed, perhaps we could achieve some prosperity and the burb would stop blocking off its streets.

      Of course, business development takes brain power, and bitching about an out house in the middle of the street is easy.

      How is that for an idea: Build more stuff in Detroit that suburbanites want to access!!

      I know — crazy talk. We’ll probably all get rich, end crime, and get the roads paved if we just bitch about the shed long enough.

      • jesssoul

        You’ve got to be joking. You must not read anything else other than MCM. Development is occurring at a speed faster than in recent decades, and both local and national media are covering everything from the arts, to tech, food, development and housing in Detroit. Perhaps you are also unaware that housing has reached capacity in Downtown and Midtown and development can barely keep up with demand.

        • Gary

          Lets see if all this ‘expansion’ continues when these young folks moving in have to starting thinking about raising families and putting kids in schools.

          • Russell

            Guess what Gary… the public schools in Boston, Chicago, San Francisco mostly suck, but those are still great cities… not as easy to get around or cheap or friendly as Detroit, but great none the less.
            I do wish the schools would improve, perhaps taking a play from post-Katrina New Orleans where all schools are either charter or magnet schools. There are some good schools here already. I have neighbors who are very satisfied with Nichols Elementary for instance.

          • Gary

            Fancy seeing you on here Russell. We know each other well, my friend.

        • Bryan Patrick Harris

          Since your assumptions about me are uninformed, you’ll only help yourself by not voicing them.

          That’s all great about development downtown but if you want traffic to move in from the suburbs and not out to them then what you need is more stuff to attract people downtown than what’s in the suburbs. And it’s certainly not there yet. On weekends, downtown is mostly tumbleweeds.

          A few things that are still missing:

          1. A downtown shopping district. Eastern Market has grown some to fill this gap, but it’s not the same. Thriving cities have streets full of shops, restaurants, bars and attractions where thousands of people come and kill a whole day. Downtown Detroit has pockets that are sort of like this. For example, Cass Corridor. But there certainly isn’t a place where it has reached critical mass. There are events, and things that attract crowds at set times, but reasons to kill a whole random day downtown spending money are few and far between.

          2. More police. Sounds crazy? I personally have had a $63,000 vehicle stolen right off of Cass, in broad daylight. Fortunately, it was a rental, and I only lost my GPS unit. When I was in Canada last time, my AirBNB host told me that she had successfully discouraged her daughter from going to a concert downtown because she didn’t want her taking the bus. If people feel unsafe, they’ll keep staying in and going to the suburbs.

          3. Fine dining. It’s just not there yet, not like it is in any top 10 city in America. There are a few sit-down restaurants that are spotty at best (Joe Meur, Fountain Bistro, Hudson Café), but there are few top-of-the-line staples (Roast… that’s the only one I can name. I haven’t been to the steakhouse upstairs from Meur’s yet…). And quite a few middle-of-the-road restaurants in downtown Detroit are just plain rancid. The suburbs have the market cornered on places to eat in the metro area.

          So, no, I’m not joking. Also, if you want to attract top-performing people to actually live here, you need to have a top-performing attitude, and squabbles about barns aren’t it. It’s a racist barn? It’s a classist barn? That’s terrible. Go build some restaurants and some tech companies, and quit throwing fits about barns.

          • I’ll all for more retail businesses, but am never at a loss for things to do in Detroit. Between sporting event, concerts, cultural events, activities at the DAC and DIA, and all the dive bars, we always have to choose which activity we’re going to do on any given night. We went to live music last night and will do so again tonight, then again Sunday.

            That your Canadian friend is scared to take a bus is ridiculous.

            As for food, have you tried La Vita Dolce, Cuisine, or the veal at El Barzon? I love how many late night places there are to get food.

            There’s a lot more to do here than you realize, you just have to look for it, but presumably you saw something here that made you move from New York.

            Lastly, high tech isn’t the only way to grow business. I have a handful of low tech business ideas that would employ blue collar workers and fill some empty buildings. Let me know if you’d like to hear more about them: 203 770 4556.

      • new_detroit

        Issues like this WILL affect techies wanting to move to Detroit. Many have played SimCity enough to know good vs bad urban planning 😛

        More seriously, as a whole they’re a pretty accepting group and expect the same from their community. A lot of these comments are just embarrassing.

    • Judi Blueye

      No veil at all.

    • lingvistika

      If you think blocking 6 streets out of more than 45 (of which Grosse Pointe only blocked 5) will confuse Detroiters wanting to get into Grosse Pointe, it makes me wonder what your opinion of Detroiters’ intelligence is. Grosse Pointers go in and out by the open roads all the time, so why do you think Detroiters will be confused? So far, they don’t seem to be.

  • ninaignaczak

    I am curious to know the year each blockade was constructed.

    • MickinDetroit

      The Korte one was done 91-92… I grew up in that area. Petty crime and car thefts dropped dramatically once that escape hatch was closed.

  • Mike Reade

    As someone who was active against Livonia’s attempt to grab a portion of Northville’s land, this goes beyond the pale in terms of shadiness. You can be sure the Grosse Pointe Park’s politicians knew EXACTLY where the boundaries lie which means this was deliberate.

    • rhoneyman

      it is curious that no one in gpp is willing to go on record at this point. perhaps they’re all taken aback and need more time to understand the fubar.

      • Dust Buster

        if i was a gp rep i would subpeona the same detrit assholes that allow shit heads to squat and not make them leave even when calling the cops. i would also ask to see the arrest and enforcemnt records of the legions of black bums that stake claim to charge parking fees for property that isnt theirs and simply because they mow the grass and wont break your windows if you pay them.

        i can give a million examples but these same crybabies wouldn’t give 2 shits if joe lewis grand kids built a solid black brick wall 40 feet high that cut off the entire flow of west and east bound jefferson

    • Mariano_H

      Why just one side knew about it? This goes back 100 years?

      Other than race or income levels or what the areas tend to vote, what makes you sure GP knew for sure, and Detroit did no know for sure?

      Please share.

      I think you are projecting your hate.

      Also I would suggest that this same area of GP if a landlord let someone squat for the 7-12 years to legally take control of a house a few blocks over in detroit, I know you would support that. If the land owner was white, and republican and from GP, and the squatter was from detroit, poor and black, there is no way you would not support it.

      I am right.

  • A.L. Cadillac

    Did you ever see the Jetson’s where George tells Spacely that Cogswell built his new building 6″ over the property line, but George had the plans upside down so it was actually Spacely who violated the property line? MOVE IT, HEENAN!

  • Chris Johnson

    if detroit took part of grosse pte it would a big problem

    • Mike Reade

      Exactly. If GPP wanted the land that badly, they could have petitioned to annex it.

    • Dust Buster

      why would having it cleaner, on the tax rolls and faster response times be a bad thing?

      • Plainly because it does not belong to them. Just because I can take care of your computers and electronics better than you can, doesn’t mean I can co-opt them into my own belongings and cry, “But looks at how much better I made them! No more viruses! Reformatted hard drive! Better productivity apps! Plus, I’m a web developer! I am clearly using these pieces of electronics for something much greater!” That isn’t an actual logical or ethical argument.

        You’re also setting up a complete straw man argument here by even bringing up the street clean up component of this. That isn’t an issue in this argument and no one is arguing AGAINST making areas in either city better. What the argument here is that GPP city planners did not have any legal right to build the farmer’s market where they built it and there needs to be repercussions for that, regardless of whether or not the transgression was intentional or not and regardless of what ulterior purpose the construction may have.

        As a caveat to that, someone above has explained that this street blockade has inconvenienced his/her travel in and out of GPP and thus will likely start visiting less. It seems GPP businesses, however, are largely ambivalent to this.

        Basically, I’m saying you’re being mean, incendiary and derailing a conversation. I don’t know whether you are doing it on purpose or if you are just incapable of reading someone else’s comments and comprehending them, but you have used poor logic, poor tone and just been a general jerk. Perhaps you should actually try to analyze the situation from BOTH sides?

        • Mariano_H

          wrong. This is property. If you take care of your neighbors property for 7 years you own it.

          If you so much as put a fence on your neighbors property and just steal 4.5 ft of his 200 ft wide lot. Guess what, after 7 years its his.

          You could not be more uneducated on the matter. HA formatting hardrives. Comical!

          • If you are referring to land acquiescence, Michigan requires 15 years for acquiescence to occur. Further, the construction and land encroachment occurred within the year. So not only did GPP not have any legal right whatsoever to build on the land, but the land encroachment was caught within the legal limit before land acquiescence occurs. Even in your 7 year example, the damn structure is still under construction so not enough time has elapsed. Yes, I do know what I am talking about and I am dealing in facts that actually apply to the specific case. I used a very good analogy that a person who owns property can understand.

            You also don’t seem to understand remotely what I was referring to when I said reformatting hard drives, but that’s no matter. You are behaving boorishly and ignorantly.

          • Mariano_H

            Fine 15 years. Its a moot point if they did not own the land in say 1910, took care of it, mowed the grass, painted lines, towed cars, plowed, salted etc. Then they took control of if circa 1925 ish..

            I am not saying for sure this applies here, I was just surprised no one looked into this, and Detroit has not chimed in. I am suggesting this to be true, and it really seems to bother you because it fits your narrative that the evil burbs are screwing over detroit.

          • MickinDetroit

            I’m pretty sure no one can adversely possess municipal property.

          • Dust Buster

            ok so you just completed the liberal d bag argument trifecta.

            a, you dismissed the other person pint completely while expecting them to understand yours

            b, you then went on to present a pseudo intellectual approach that you tried to bolster with condescending down talking and false logic, while asking/demanding to have both sides heard

            c, you turned into a name calling prick and a snarky asshole while trying to paint your opponent into the very same corner.

            ding ding fuqin dink you win the liberal condescension and hypocrite award for july 2012. your bullshit might work at wc3 or some urban ethnic bullshit study class at wayne but your ideas and logic are unemployable in any capacity that isnt tax payer funded.

          • I really just can’t stress enough that even by your own metric of 7 years, GPP’s land encroachment is still illegal.

          • Mariano_H

            No they built there because they have been taking care of it for the last 100 years! Did you not read the part where steve says they just discovered in some old records, that maybe this little sliver of land is detroits. Everyone refers to alter as the boarder. Straight line from jefferson to mack. This little sliver dates back to the turn of THE LAST century. GP has been taking care of it ever since.

          • Exclusive Use is lacking, so is Hostile Use, ie Detroit never told GPP NOT to use the space.BTW, maintenance is not a requirement.

          • There is several other elements to adverse possession than time. As I am not yet licensed to practice law in MI, please don’t construe this comment as legal advise, rather it is RE advise (am licensed MI RE broker.)

          • Scott Koue

            And in Michigan it’s 15 years not 7

        • Dust Buster

          im so glad you went there in such a vigorous manner. so then you would also agree that people that don’t produce aka pull their own wagon aka devour handouts have no real rights to bitch about anything until they start pushing the wagon with the rest of us?

          i am right, arent i?

      • rhoneyman

        the improvement is publicly owned. even if allowed to stand, it won’t be on the tax rolls.

    • Mariano_H

      You don’t say. What if they paid to fix, repair, light, plow, salt, ticket, tow, police that area for 100 years?

      You know what they would say? They would say, and hundreds of people in detroit would say its just like when you take care of any property for 7 years. You take ownership of it.

      I know many people doing that in detroit, they are taking care of neighbors property, and they are going to claim it. They will be granted it by law. They put up a small fence, no one claimed it, they mowed it for years, and in a few more years it will legally be theres.

      Let me guess? You support a urban garden doing that, a black church, etc.

      But not GP right? C’mon, you do not accept GP doing this, even though I know damn well you would lose your mind is a black run, non profit urban garden was not granted land they took care of!

    • Mariano_H

      Also just to be clear, Detroit grew after the 1920s basically through annexation. You would be fine with any burb also doing this right? Absorbing any part of detroit it found useful? Maybe warren, grosse pointe, dearborn could all gobble up terrible parts of detroit and built nice new clean homes. Keep them up, police them, school the kids, provide services etc right?

      You would support that, right ?

  • mary

    6 streets blocked … Alter Road at Korte (a cement barricade and trees) done in the 1970’s and Alter at Windmill Pointe Drive (the Park’s pool) done in the 1980’s

    • muckraker_steve

      Thank you, Mary!

      • MickinDetroit

        korte was done in the 90s. just saying.

  • love detroit

    green_velvet is right, mammasgirl, you are an idiot and clearly missing the whole point of the conversation.

  • mammasgirl

    Why are we still talking about the stupid building blocking off the street? It is no longer relevant. Use the sidewalk. Walk around. Thank you.

    • green_velvet

      Whenever someone says “Why is this news?”, or “Why are we still talking about this?”, all you’re really saying is “I have nothing to contribute, and am too stupid to discuss the topic at hand”.

      • Moderately Intelligent

        False argument. I can pick it apart over and over: Kimye on the news all the time, royal baby’s name, any celebrity relationship or basically any celebrity story at all.

        Thank you for calling people stupid though. People who have nothing to contribute tend to call names. Good try green velvet.

        • Roger Wade

          You might want to change your user name.

          • Moderately Intelligent

            I usually use it to post on political stories, at which point it’s just a bad joke. But I see how it might just seem odd on other stories. Especially award winning journalism about sheds.

          • Roger Wade

            Maybe something like “toilet baby” would be more appropriate?

          • Moderately Intelligent

            Roger after checking out your previous posts, I understand now that you have a high school education (maybe), and you pull the race card 9 times out of 10. Please just continue trolling articles and leave the intelligent discussion to the adults

          • green_velvet

            And yet, here you are..

    • rhoneyman

      because grosse pointe park built a structure on property it does not own. that’s news. plus, the city of detroit is now investigating. that’s news.

      • Gary

        There is just such a huge shortage of usable land in Detroit.

        • rhoneyman

          as non-sequiturs go, not bad…

          • Gary

            angel-cake