Attendees of men’s rights conference angry over changed location in Detroit

Men Rights Protest
Protesters rallied against the conference last week.

Patrice Stanton was planning to attend a controversial conference on men’s rights in downtown Detroit until the event was suddenly moved to a suburban VFW hall just two weeks before the event.

Like other attendees, Stanton was already locked into hotel reservations at the Hilton DoubleTree, where the conference was originally scheduled. Now she and others must find transportation to the VFW Post in St. Clair Shores, where protesters are expected to gather.

Stanton decided to request a refund on the message board of A Voice for Men, which is hosting the event, and she got a mouthful from organizers.

“You come here attempting to pose a couple of ‘gotcha’ questions with all the finesse of a tenth grader,” a moderator of the site wrote. “Go fuck yourself.”

The group’s founder, Paul Elam, added that women are safer than men in a city.

“As a woman you are less likely to experience violence, on the street or otherwise, than men,” Elam said.

Elam added: “As I have stated repeatedly, the circumstances of the venue change is not something i can discuss publicly for legal reasons. Whether you personally approve of this is up to you, but honestly of no concern to me.”

The harsh and dismissive response to Stanton is typical of many in the men’s rights movement, which floods comment sections and online forums with attacks on women and feminists.

A conference spokeswoman lashed out at protesters in Detroit late last week.

“Let those Wayne State cunts fuck themselves up their own asses,” Janet Bloomfield tweeted.

The group has been criticized by the Southern Poverty Law Center as “women haters whose fury goes well beyond criticism of the family court system, domestic violence laws and false rape accusations.”

A Voice for Men’s followers claim they are oppressed by irrational feminists who hate men. The group also accuses women of exaggerating the frequency of rape and denounces “the institution of marriage as unsafe and unsuitable for modern men.”

The group announced a new location for the conference last week, saying protests from opponents were causing a spike in demand. Elam insists the venue was changed only to accommodate a larger audience – an odd move just two weeks before the conference.

Some attendees also are questioning A Voice for Men’s use of $30,000 it raised after the DoubleTree demanded that the group pays for security and insurance in the wake of alleged threats from opponents. Those threats have never been substantiated.

Despite the conference location change, A Voice for Men is keeping the donations and insists it will be spent on security.

Some attendees asked for a better explanation but got none.

Steve Neavling

Steve Neavling lives and works in Detroit as an investigative journalist. His stories have uncovered corruption, led to arrests and reforms and prompted FBI investigations.

  • Teflon Expat

    The radfemisphere learned that their reporter, this chip-on-shoulder swore person, was unable to attend the conference. Yep, they went on another spree. This time its a short-notice call to mail intimidating letters and send emails to the VFW. Who knew?. Really. Who knew.

  • guest

    Seriously, MRA stories have driven crazy page clicks because of their rabid commenters. Steve might make a dollar this week.

    • Teflon Expat

      Its only fair. AVfM just made a boat load on the backs of feminists during the past two weeks

  • Teflon Expat

    From Reddit and very revealing. Now there is no doubt that the entire protest is nothing more than a bitchfest. Feministing and Slate XX avoided reporting on it for that reason. Its just too dirty.
    ________________________________

    Feminist sites [Feministing, Slate XX] just don’t care – unlike this subreddit, feminism wasn’t set up to oppose Mister (like they were with us) so they generally don’t follow it so closely. The only reason Mister gets acknowledged at all is because of all of the “activism” they do in internet comments.

    What Mister makes a big deal, isn’t. It’s a conference (one of hundreds thrown every year) of no real import. It might be “huge” for misters, but it’s not for everyone else.

    I would hardly call swore’s trip there “attention”. We have a small amount of readers, and we talk about misters constantly. Feministing has a far bigger reach than we do – and that’s why AVFM shouldn’t get it. They might be the centres of their own universes, but they’re not the centres of feminist’s universes.

    http://www.reddit.com/r/againstmensrights/comments/28ieep/videoaudio_of_dean_esmays_4_am_call_this_was_weird/?sort=new

  • Teflon Expat

    Does the MRM undermine or in any way impede the progress of feminism?

  • Auntie Alias

    There sure is a lot of impotent flailing in the AVFM camp to smear their opponents. Do I smell desperation in the air?

    • Teflon Expat

      Its self fulfilling. The extra is purely entertainment.

    • RubberPunch

      Randomly throwing crap at a wall to see if it’ll stick to your crap on the wall

    • Mike Hunt

      Projection again. This one is just over the top.

      • Auntie Alias

        It sure looks desperate from where I’m sitting. JudgyBitch’s latest AVFM “gotcha” aimed at David Futrelle was just plain stupid. Elam accused him and AMR of “inspiring very unbalanced, unstable people to act out violently, to make threats.”

        Quoting the words of assholes doesn’t encourage violence.

        • Teflon Expat

          Feminists consider nearly everything written on MRA sites to be written by assholes. That very writing is the sole reason for the extreme feminist anger. Anger is an emotion and that leads to being emotional and not rational. Put a bunch of those hot heads together and they lather each other up to do all sorts of irrational things…like write childish petitions to harm hotels, like make a run for Sharpies and march in a majority union protest and, yes, make threats when not getting their way. Its a plausible story and very very compelling. The trail leading to threats is easily mapped.

          • sarahgray

            What petition to harm a hotel?

          • Teflon Expat

            “the Men’s Rights conference puts them (Hilton) in bed with domestic terrorism. Tell them to stop. Tell them that this is unacceptable.”

            The “or else” part is abundantly obvious

        • Mike Hunt

          Well you *are* David Futrelle, so you would feel that way, wouldn’t you?

          I would never give you/David that much credit. Futrelle feeds off these morons, nothing he could say could make them any *more* insane.

          • Auntie Alias

            At least he’s upfront AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN about what he does with the donations he receives. Unlike some people.

          • Teflon Expat

            You’re faux and agenda-driven concern for MRAs is duly noted. When a person climbs up the asses of other peoples business, well that is what a creep does.

          • Mike Hunt

            Buys cheeseburgers and cat litter?

      • Teflon Expat
  • Teflon Expat

    Shortly, there will appear a highly biased ‘article’ laying out all the details and history regarding threats, case numbers, hotels, police departments and featuring very a carefully selected set of comments made on this and other blogs. What is the agenda behind it and what will be the conclusion?

  • Teflon Expat

    Tally time. What group has been demonized more in the Detroit debacle? Feminists or MRAs? Who’s rhetoric is more compelling?

  • Mike Hunt

    This pretty much explains why Steve Neavling is such a gutless shil: m.cjr.org/164388/show/e2ccdc638c53dd409b263c656bb2d8e8/?

    Perhaps the real reason he was fired was because he was simply horrible at his job.

    • rhoneyman

      actually, that’s a pretty impressive cv. you seem to have an agenda. perhaps you can find links that actually support that agenda. this one does not.

      • Teflon Expat

        Who doesn’t have an agenda?

      • Mike Hunt

        Everyone has an agenda. What’s yours?

  • Teflon Expat

    The standard passive aggressive harassing phone calls and threatening written notes passed to security personnel at the VFW has begun. Lesson learned: do not attempt to undermine support for the notion that this ‘patriarchy’ thing exists because if such dissent is embraced it could lead to the defunding of feminist ’causes.’ Follow the money, not their prickly ideology.

    • sarahgray

      You have case numbers from Detroit and Houston PD about the current claims that threats have been made absent any proof whatsoever?

      • Teflon Expat

        Yes. Can you wait 10 days or do you want that sooner?

        • sarahgray

          Doesn’t really make a difference.
          Faking threats is illegal regardless of when the conference is.

          • Teflon Expat

            Regarding your specific inquiry regarding case numbers, what doesn’t make any difference?

          • sarahgray

            When this information is available is not so important. And it will be available eventually.

          • Teflon Expat

            Yes eventually it shall. You done?

  • Mike Hunt

    Well, I guess Steve Neavling has decided to remove all doubt that he is completely devoid of journalistic integrity.

    • Teflon Expat

      There are about 10 days left to remove more doubt

      • Mike Hunt

        Thers none left to remove. He’s no better than David Futrelle at this point.

    • Teflon Expat

      This should be the basis for his next editorial-

      From Reddit and very revealing. Now there is no doubt that the entire protest is nothing more than a bitchfest put on by a faction of rogues. Feministing and Slate XX avoided reporting on it for that reason. Its just too dirty.

      ________________________________

      Feminist sites [Feministing, Slate XX] just don’t care – unlike this subreddit, feminism wasn’t set up to oppose Mister (like they were with us) so they generally don’t follow it so closely. The only reason Mister gets acknowledged at all is because of all of the “activism” they do in internet comments.

      What Mister makes a big deal, isn’t. It’s a conference (one of hundreds thrown every year) of no real import. It might be “huge” for misters, but it’s not for everyone else.

      I would hardly call swore’s trip there “attention”. We have a small amount of readers, and we talk about misters constantly. Feministing has a far bigger reach than we do – and that’s why AVFM shouldn’t get it. They might be the centres of their own universes, but they’re not the centres of feminist’s universes.

      Well what they really want is violent attention. That will make it big news online and that’s where they have their gatherings (and donation buttons) where they get to play the biggest victims of all. They’re looking to continue the surges they got after the fire alarm pulls.

      I like the protest last weekend – it got attention from who it needed to, and didn’t give AVFM face time. They don’t want that sort of protest to exist – they want the news-making type of protest to exist, because in their minds, that means more publicity and more converts.

      http://www.reddit.com/r/againstmensrights/comments/28ieep/videoaudio_of_dean_esmays_4_am_call_this_was_weird/?sort=new

      “they want the news-making type of protest to exist, because in their minds, that means more publicity and more converts.”

      Ah, so that is why there is so much clamoring to show the death threats were not real and especially not from feminists.

  • politicalcynic

    Funny-so feminists are upset about having to go somewhere else to protest? But earlier they were protesting demanding that Doubletree NOT host the conference. So, the logic here is that Feminists have the right to complain and send petitions to Doubletree demanding they not host the conference…and then when it is moved, which feminists purportedly wanted, they have a right to complain about THAT?

    There seems to be a gaping hole in the logic here….

    Hmm-and which “attendees” are you citing in terms of the alleged concerns about the money raised? Were they people who donated? Or are you simply using innuendo, unsupported by fact, to engage in character assassination? Facts, boy, facts. I know that’s tough when writing a “hit piece” but even so….

    • Teflon Expat

      Much of the angst is having that move framed in terms of violent threats attributed to feminists. Thus, the move is not based on society embracing feminist ideas but rather because they are a scary bunch.

      • sarahgray

        What violent threats have been attributed to feminists?

        • Teflon Expat

          Those that apparently got them feminists in a huff? Know any?

    • Auntie Alias

      “so feminists are upset about having to go somewhere else to protest?”

      They are? That’s news to me. The “gaping hole” is your bogus claim.

      “Hmm-and which “attendees” are you citing in terms of the alleged concerns about the money raised?”

      Try reading the article.

      • RubberPunch

        There’s an article?

      • Teflon Expat

        True. They can’t be upset about something they’re not doing since they learned a tough lesson from the major bitch slap they got the last time.

  • EqualityEd

    “The group has been criticized by the Southern Poverty Law Center as “women haters whose fury goes well beyond criticism of the family court system, domestic violence laws and false rape accusations.”

    Steve I accuse you of being a ideologue with an agenda for posting that in every piece you write about AFVM . The SPLC lost my respect by coming after Men’s Rights and so have you. Nothing is more oppressive than white men demanding subjugation of all men in the service of white women who find unity in a ideology of vindictive male bashing with more raw establishment power than any other social justice enterprise in America. If raising an awareness about men’s issues and even on occasion being critical of things some women do a form of hate then men are now subject to mass oppression by feminist activist who’ll use condemnation from official sounding bodies to suppress their demands for fairness and equality.

    That’s is real oppression and we’re not standing for it. Social justice is not a tool for white women to control white men. It’s not a means for women to manipulate the opposite sex into satisfying their every whim. This corruption came about because the very love men have for women is turned against them by a small group of entitled women who deemed men’s needs, lives, or dignity to be irrelevant beyond what these men could do for women. Many men have offered support to these women’s activist who tell tales of how miserable men have made their lives without ever once asking if a women too have done men wrong. Its not a man’s place to show his vulnerability and that itself has made him vulnerable to this sort of manipulation.

    We need balance, not the sexism of gender chauvinist who think their sex is better; albeit weaker; thus should never ever be judged are not moral authorities. A princess with a persecution complex is not our master. We are free people who are making fair and sensible demand equality who condemn no sex or gender. That can’t be said of feminism.

    • Joy

      Bwahahahahahah! You’re being oppressed by feminists? Dude, you are a laughingstock. The only manipulator here is you. You don’t like the fact you belong to a hate group? Leave said hate group.

      You’re not raising any awareness of anything except your woman hatred. When has Elam donated more than 10 grand to say, a suicide prevention program for men?

      Oh right, he hasn’t. He’s given money to MRA’s to comment against women and feminists. He’s given money to find the personal information of women he doesn’t like so he can dox them. He’s given a few thousand to circumvent a police investigation of an assault on a woman b/c it HURTS HIS POCKET.

      You’re all a joke. Go whine to Lord Elam. Steve is doing his job. Elam isn’t.

      • Auntie Alias

        Too bad Elam couldn’t have been bothered to donate to Earl Silverman’s men’s shelter, eh?

      • Teflon Expat

        Wait, so now you’re ready to grab some sign-board and protest over services provided because no one will pay attention to your opinion of them in writing? Is that in addition to the vendetta reason from earlier today?

    • Teflon Expat
  • Chiquitobot

    Skeev Skeevling posts some profane comments from AVFM associates but doesn’t post profane comments from feminist opposition. Very fair and balanced!

    • sarahgray

      Where did feminists accuse hotel and VFW staff of saying reprehensible things?

      • Chiquitobot

        Try harder.

        • Auntie Alias

          Try telling the truth.

          • Teflon Expat

            Try finding it. Between you, the evidence maven and the OP blog writer…ya all get a D-

  • J belmont

    Those threats have in fact been substantiated, by Dave Futrelle of “Manboobz” no less. When someone who will literally fake entire articles to libel someone admits the threats of violence are real while your writers claim they’re “unsubstantiated” maybe it’s time to start replacing people.

    • Auntie Alias

      Citations needed on the literally faked articles.

      • Teflon Expat

        So much is need; so little time…12 days to be exact. Giddy up!

        • Auntie Alias

          I’m in no rush. I’m just going to sit back with my popcorn and watch the show.

    • sarahgray

      The police themselves have said the threats are not substantiated, as Steve has reported.

      “threats were reported” is not the same as “threats were substantiated”

      • Teflon Expat

        Ah the threat maven is back! Just think, your nightmare is over in about 12 days!

      • RubberPunch

        Threats are being made all the time and against pretty much anything. In the large majority of times the threats stay just that, threats. Nothing else.

        The difficulty is to identify what threats will lead to actions, and what threats are empty.

        When threats are not substantiated it means that they are not likely to be carried out. There is nothing about this kind of threat that indicate that it will be more than threats.

        That doesn’t mean that the threat wasn’t made. The threat can have an impact on the target, regardless of it being substantiated or not.

        Just because a threat is unsubstantiated does not mean it doesn’t exist, nor is it without consequences for the receiver. It is also illegal to make threats of violence and death, even if you didn’t intend to carry it out.

        • sarahgray

          Yes, making threats is illegal. Even if they are fake threats made to drum up sympathy for one’s cause.

          When the police reports are made available, it will be more clear who may have made these threats

          Funny how AVfM has been alleging threats were made for weeks, but took so long reporting to police, and haven’t provided any evidence that those they accuse of making threats did any such thing. Its not like figuring out who made a phone call is that hard.

          • RubberPunch

            True, the existence of a threat does not necessarily lead to the identification of the person(s) making the threat.

            What is true in the case of Danielle d’Entremont for instance, is true in this case as well. The perpetrator is unknown, and could even be the alleged victim.

            I find it unlikely that AVfM itself made the threats though. Too much inconvenience compared to what could be gained.

            If the person(s) making the threats have any sense, they will have attempted to mask their identity. For that reason, I don’t expect the reports will shed any light on the perpetrator.

            Once again, it was the Hotel that claimed it had received threats. AVfM cannot provide evidence of threats directed at the Hotel.

            AVfM can only provide evidence of threats against AVfM, and evidence that AVfM received a letter from the Hotel.

            Any threatening phone calls were made to the Hotel and not AVfM. For that reason AVfM do not have access to the information related to such phone calls.

          • sarahgray

            The hotel has not said they received threats, though it is possible that that is in the police report.

            DPD told me directly that attendees could report the threats alleged in that letter.

          • RubberPunch

            The Hotel has not publicly stated that they received threats, and why would they? They have nothing to gain from that. They may even have demanded that the letter must be kept from the public as well.

            What can attendees report? That they have heard rumors, or have seen a letter from a hotel claiming that the hotel received threats?

            I guess the police can use that information in their questioning of the Hotel, but that is pretty much it?

            Attendees reporting can substantiate the existence of the letter, but not the threats.

          • Teflon Expat

            Bravo. Do you think she will go away now? Or is she once again sitting there, cracking knuckles, swearing and thinking of some pseudo-clever comeback that seeks an ah-ha!?

          • sarahgray

            If they demanded the letter be kept from the public, why does AVfM still have it up on their website?

            The DPD said any.hotel employee or attendee of the conference couldrreport the threats alleged in the letter AVfM says Doubletree sent.

          • Teflon Expat

            Per feminists, AVfM is a backwater site that the public doesn’t even know about. That was good enough for the hotel.

            The hotel employees and attendees are actually doing important things right now and the memory of a trivial matter from weeks ago has been long forgotten.

          • sarahgray

            Claims of death threats and libeling of employees isn’t important to them?

          • Teflon Expat

            Its been weeks, so apparently not. Perhaps you can call and remind them again to give a rats ass.

          • RubberPunch

            So the letter is available again from the AVfM website? That is good news. If you read again you’ll notice I wrote may even have. Could have been an explanation why the letter was absent for a while.

            We already agreed that anyone can (and should) report criminal activities. That doesn’t make it possible for the conference organizers to prove publicly that the threats were made, since they didn’t get the threats that made Doubletree write the letter to them.

            You are asking for something impossible given the circumstances.

            Very few people know for sure if the threats were made or not. It is almost certain that Doubletree send a letter to the organizers claiming that threats were made.

            The rest is uncertain and maybe a police investigation will find more. Maybe not.

            Lots of threats are made every day, and if it is unlikely from a police standpoint that the threat will lead to a real attack, it will be considered unsubstantiated. Police resources will then be directed at more realistic threats, and rightly so.

          • Teflon Expat

            “But but this threat could implicate the MRAs and must be investigated!! aarrgghh!!”
            –The Losers

          • sarahgray

            In what way is the veracity of the letter certain?

            They, in fact, denied sending the letter and denied threats were made

          • Teflon Expat

            Say you are correct. Whats next?

          • RubberPunch

            As far as I know, Doubletree never denied sending the letter. They didn’t confirm it either.

            The same goes for the threats.

            Some random people may have contacted some employee not responsible for this sort of thing, and asked about the letter and the threats. They will get a neither confirmed nor denied answer, which I believe is exactly what has happened.

            Do you have information otherwise? If you do, please share, it would be interesting.

            Given that Doubletree and the conference were contractually obligated to each other, it would be incredibly stupid for either party to invent either the threats or the letter. Both would be illegal, and in the case of a forged letter, easy to prove.

          • Teflon Expat

            All this threat and letter obsession from radfems will abruptly end when the conference is over and they can finally untwist their panties

          • RubberPunch

            I’m surprised they bother tbh, but then again, rational thought is not strong with them. I suspect it’s some sort of trolling maybe. Not sure if they attempt to convince anyone, or try to create conflict within the MRM.

            I don’t think it’s working.

          • Teflon Expat

            Its all the ammo they have left and their gun is jammed. The sole potential outcome is an article specific to this matter that can have a compelling conclusion that vindicates them and implicates the MRAs. The conflict within the MRM did not happen over the $30k collected so that talk already stopped. Now its down to the criminal aspect and discrediting AVfM regarding fear as their reason to relocate to a well secured military compound.

          • sarahgray

            The manager i spoke to told me unequivocally that no threats had been made and no letter had been sent.

          • Teflon Expat

            Well there ya go! You’re done! Or is there something more needed? If no answer, then its a wrap. End of story.

          • RubberPunch

            So, on the one hand I have sarahgray, random internet poster, claiming that an unnamed manager of Doubletree conclusively denied the existence of the letter to saragray personally.

            On the other hand I have a publicly available letter made public by AVfM, a letter that can be attributed to Doubletree through the letter head. The letter clearly states that the Hotel received death threats.

            I’ll let it be up to any potential readers here to decide what is most likely. Did Doubletree write the letter, or did they not?

          • Teflon Expat

            Especially when the credibility of said random poster is clearly compromised by extreme bias.

          • sarahgray

            The hotel has not confirmed they sent the letter.
            Therefore, that they sent the letter is not a fact.

          • RubberPunch

            I agree, it is not fact that the Hotel sent the letter. For now. It may change if there is an investigation.

            It is fact that AVfM presented a letter to the public. The letter appeared to be from the hotel. It is fact that the letter states that the hotel received death threats.

          • sarahgray

            The letter references a numbered contract. Standard Doubletree co tracts found online are not numbered.

            There’s also the unlikelihood that the hotel would take a week and a half to report the threats.

          • RubberPunch

            I tried to find the letter on the AVfM website, but the original link is still broken it seems. It may have been moved, I don’t know.

            The letter is not a standard contract, and I fail to see the connection here.

            Secondly, Doubletree appears to be a franchise, and different hotels may have different systems to handle contracts.

            The contracts available through google search may belong to another hotel under the Doubletree franchise?

            If the hotel did indeed report the threats, why are we discussing if the letter is genuine or not? Doesn’t the reporting indicate that the letter is real?

          • Teflon Expat

            You’re just baiting her at this point. Hopefully she doesn’t live on a high floor because she could completely lose it and aim for a window

          • sarahgray

            The letter is still linked on their site. Just went and checked. They removed the link in one article, but not all of them.

            There is no evidence the hotel reported any threats.
            Unless you have a copy of the police report, that’s simply an unknown.

          • RubberPunch

            Thanks, I did manage to find the letter after some searching.

            In one post back you say

            There’s also the unlikelihood that the hotel would take a week and a half to report the threats.

            indicating that the hotel actually did report threats, and then in the next you say

            There is no evidence the hotel reported any threats.

            Now I’m confused. Did the hotel report threats to the police, or did it not?

          • sarahgray

            The police say threats have been reported but not by whom.

            It is simply not believeable that the police were not contacted immediately, and until last week, the police confirmed no threats had been reported.

          • RubberPunch

            If the threats were phoned in it may be very difficult to identify who made the threat. It is likely that the perpetrator will never be identified for this reason.

            In that case filing a report to the police will be futile. The hotel may not be contractually obligated to file a police report whenever a threat is being made, in this case and in others. They may also know from previous experience that filing a police report is a waste of everyone’s time.

            The purpose of the increased security demand is not primarily to protect the staff and guests.

            It is to allow the hotel to claim it did everything it could to protect staff and guests in the very unlikely event that someone actually acted upon a stated threat. This will protect the Hotel in the event of a subsequent law suit.

            So while the threat is substantial enough to warrant the activation of certain clauses in the contract, it is not substantial enough for the police to pursue it further.

            Maybe we can agree that the Hotel should be obligated to file a police report in every case when this clause is activated?

          • sarahgray

            well the police told the news and the Free Press that would be highly unusual for threats to not be reported.

          • RubberPunch

            How would they know? If it is standard practice for the hotel not to file police reports for every threat they receive, the police wouldn’t know anything about it.

          • sarahgray

            right. According to the police it is standard practice to report threats

          • RubberPunch

            Right, because all the threats the police know about has been reported to them.

            So from a police perspective, all threats are being reported. Well done.

          • sarahgray

            it would be very easy to determine who made a phone in threat – police have access to phone records

          • RubberPunch

            I don’t now how things work in the U.S, but in my country it is quite easy to buy a disposable phone SIM and make calls using that.

            But it may be possible to trace these calls anyway. If that is the case, it may well be a matter of time before we can end the speculation and get more facts.

          • Teflon Expat

            If its not in writing then there is no confirmation either way. You aint got shit. After two fuming weeks, you still aint got shit. Don’t quit your day job.

          • Teflon Expat

            Go ahead, call them again. Heck, just show up and request a meeting. Remove all doubt in their minds that feminists are hyper emotional psychotic shrills.

    • Joy

      There were no threats. Those report numbers are either totally made up or have ZERO to do with the conference. MRA’s only came out with two police numbers AFTER the protest last Sat. I hope Elam gets nailed to the wall.

      • Teflon Expat

        Ah, so this is a vendetta. Excellent. These supremely bitter ‘feminists’ are making a proactive effort to nail Elam because the authorities don’t give a rats ass.

        Tarnished feminist public image…GUILTY!
        Victim status at feminist expense…GUILTY!
        Reduced protest to hissy fit…GUILTY!

        http://thenewsdoctors.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/hissy-fit-300×214.jpg

      • politicalcynic

        Given that the existence of the threats was confirmed-in a written piece-by Mr. Futrelle, who supports feminism, are you now calling him a liar? WOW!

      • Mike Hunt

        Once again you express publically your love of violence. Typical feminist.

  • Whothehell Cares

    I personally want to thank the big “F’ feminists for helping to raise awareness of the men’s conference and by helping to swell the ranks of the MHRM. Please continue to ‘protest’ as the media coverage for our cause increases exponentially with every vocal Feminist outpouring.

    • Teflon Expat

      Well, they will certainly hold that dirty threat-tongue firmly in place going forward.

    • Auntie Alias

      Even the right-wing media is laughing at you.

      • Teflon Expat

        Aside from a few mostly fringe news blogs, no media beyond the Detroit metro area is addressing any of this.

        • Auntie Alias

          Breitbart

          • Teflon Expat

            Impressive

  • Joy

    You could never give A Voice for Menners enough shovels to dig their hole with. Here’s Paul Elam, threatening a woman with doxxing http://yourlisten.com/NLibertusOnline_tw/pauls-threat

    • Teflon Expat

      And this pointing out of alleged hole-digging makes you feel better or is it part of some strategic agenda? Venting is the more likely case, so lets go with the former.

    • Auntie Alias

      Here’s Paul Elam calling women “female cum receptacles”.

      I have a better idea than yours. How about men just practice the same rights as women. Fair is fair, right? If a man knocks a woman up he should just chant a slogan like “My wallet, my choice,” and put her in the rear view for good.

      In fact, as many men as possible should choose this path for reproduction. It will be a benefit to society. Not that many men can see through the racket of hypergamy. Those that can may be genetically predisposed to that kind of intelligence. And the more those enlightened men pass their genes along as sperm donors, the easier it will be for the female cum receptacles out there to help us breed society back to sanity.

      — Paul Elam http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/activism/karma-one-man-feminist-destroyer/

      • Teflon Expat

        You two are commiserating. Aww, how sweet.

        • Auntie Alias

          Since all you and AVFM have are smear tactics, I figure fighting fire with fire is fair. At least we can use the truth as a weapon. All your side has is lies, innuendo, and a feminist who has been dead for 40 years.

          • Teflon Expat

            Where you all going with that weapon? Got a distribution strategy? Or is it more of that “you’ll see, you’ll see, humph!”

          • Auntie Alias

            Nah. I just ran across it when I was looking for proof of AVFM saying women are stupid and thought I’d share.

          • Joy

            There’s so much misogyny to choose from. It’s hard to pick sometimes.

          • Teflon Expat

            You’ll narrow down your faves. Depends on the mood you’re in

          • Auntie Alias

            It’s important to pick new ones for variety.

      • RubberPunch

        I don’t see Elam calling all women female cum receptacles. I do see him call some men sperm donors though.

        • Auntie Alias

          It sure looks like blanket coverage to me.

          • Teflon Expat

            Few women are “the female cum receptacles out there” especially when considering the entire planet.

          • RubberPunch

            May explain why you’re the feminist and I’m not.

          • Auntie Alias

            That’s an offensive term regardless.

          • RubberPunch

            Sure. In this, as in many other cases, Elam is equally offensive to some men and some women.

            Usually when Elam is being offensive to someone, it is because of what they do or say, not how they were born.

          • sarahgray

            Why doesn’t he call some men cum dumpsters then?

          • RubberPunch

            For the same reason he doesn’t call some women sperm donors?

          • sarahgray

            I’m pretty sure lesbian sex doesn’t involve sperm.

          • RubberPunch

            What does lesbian sex have to do with calling men cum dumpsters?

          • sarahgray

            Nothing. Its just that it’s not as if only women have sex with men, as it’s not just men who have sex with women.

          • RubberPunch

            Well, Auntie Alias quoted Elam. The quote refers to reproduction, and reproduction always involve the combination of male and female genetic material, i.e. sperm (from a sperm donor) and eggs in the so called cum receptabacle.

            Elam used these derogatory terms in relation to making babies. He was not talking about lesbian sex.

  • D. L.

    An unsubstantiated conversation happened on a message board? OH BOY WHAT A SCOOP! Some great journalism you got there, buddy.

  • Joy

    Attacking a person going to their conference. Sounds about right. There were never any threats. That was a call for lots of cash. Every quarter Elam makes up some grand reason for needing another 20-30K and like good little cult members, they send it to him. He pockets the cash.

  • Teflon Expat

    http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Awg6vUxUL._SL500_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

    Feminists are done. The MRAs are taking over this discourse. America rejoices.

  • Teflon Expat

    http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/newsroom/img/mt/2014/06/AP751025189/lead.jpg?n742l5

    Today Detroit! Tomorrow, uh, well, not too sure. Maybe I will come to my senses in a few years…

    • Auntie Alias

      Are you sure you want to use an image of a woman who ended up promoting men’s rights?

      • Teflon Expat

        May she rest in peace

        • Auntie Alias

          Indeed.

  • Teflon Expat
  • Teflon Expat

    Okay, that was rich. What’s next in this editorial series?

  • PTBridgeport

    ……

  • Guest

    ………

  • Guest
    • Teflon Expat

      It began with Kelly Jackson’s petition in May

  • driversuz

    Your “scoop” is melting, Steve.

  • Teflon Expat

    Feminists are the only people who are fuming over the actual meeting…not just saying it should not happen…but actually pumping fists and swelling neck veins. Getting the conference cancelled is to seek satisfaction, its a target, its a way to ‘score’ and it is a vendetta and that is a bitch fest. Its to make a statement. Running the group out of town does not disband the group but it does rally the feminist troops.

    Naturally, there is an expectation and a desire that the group of their ire will respond in kind…with spitting mad anger. True, its a challenge to maintain composure and AVfM has done quite well in that regard. Nevertheless, the feminist minions, and that includes the author of this editorial, are scouring all available resources seeking out and reporting on any signs of anger generated by AVfM.

  • Not surprising that so many of the attendees are fulfilling the stereotype of scared outsider of the city and are letting everyone know how terrified they were about it being downtown. Though Paul is clearly confused about where violence comes from and who is the target as he is so willing to ignore the vast majority of people who experience violence in the city are not white people or outsiders but long term residents.

    Erasing how race plays a huge factor into violence is ignorant, harmful and perpetuates stigma about the city of Detroit that ignores how systemic / institutional racism functions in the city. People passing through the city particularly if they are white have the lowest chance of being victims of violence. Pretending otherwise is erasing the lived reality of the people who are forced to navigate that violence in their daily lives.

    • driversuz

      The condition of the city is one of the reasons we chose Detroit.

      • sarahgray

        Then why is the conference not being held in Detroit?

      • The “condition” of the city? So you think that a 2 day conference is going to solve centuries of systemic racism and poverty? This is so incredibly condescending.

        • driversuz

          “So you think that a 2 day conference is going to solve centuries of systemic racism and poverty?”
          Of course not. Why would you even think such a thing?

          • If anything on your schedule even vaguely resembled anything that could help the city or were targeting issues that residents deal with I may think differently but choosing the city due to its “conditions” is condescending.

          • driversuz

            You think Detroit residents don’t “deal with” boys being failed by schools, how the criminal justice and family court systems treat men, or the effects of fatherlessness on any community?

          • Yet nothing on your schedule specifically cites most of those issues or examine men and race together. You cannot talk about men’s issues that impact the men in the city of Detroit without also examining race. Particularly when assuming the issues that harm men in the is purely due to them being male is an erasure of their reality.

          • driversuz

            “You cannot talk about…”
            News flash, Cupcake. Neither you nor any other ideologue will be dictating the terms of any discussion at this conference. How you believe the issues should be framed, is of absolutely no consequence whatsoever to anyone who will be speaking, but we thank you for your input all the same.

          • Teflon Expat

            That is the core matter. That is why there are protests. Anger over a group referred to as Mens Rights controlling the discourse and rendering cozy and preachy feminism into obscurity.

          • EqualityEd

            “You cannot talk about men’s issues that impact the men in the city of Detroit without also examining race. ”

            That sounds like bullshit to me coming from the very people who’d suppress talk of men’s and boys issues in the first place. This feminist white social justice is all about suppression of male victimhood for the elevation of women. Racist is pretending black male problems aren’t addressed by men discussing men’s issues, as if black men aren’t real enough men to be addressed without being coddled.

            The feminist B.S is so oppressive the black community rejected it. They don’t need a white women’s ideology of male degradation to know where they stand, they need people who care about their men who are trying to uplift them.

            These white women wouldn’t dare protest black leaders pushing a platform of male issues and I’m more than happy to see white men stepping up to correct the marginalization of men in the family we’ve seen over recent decades affecting all races.

      • HellIsOtherPeople

        I believe you – I remember a statement from VFW that they are struggling too much financially to refuse hosting your conference.

        • Teflon Expat

          True. Given the feminist threats that are now widely known, war worn veterans would prefer to live in peace.

          • HellIsOtherPeople

            Yes, just keep telling yourself that.

          • Teflon Expat

            Its being told repeatedly and is sinking in quite well. Thanks

      • guest

        Lol, white savior much?

    • Teflon Expat

      The city was mainly ruined by the demands made by the very people who were the vast majority of protesters on the 7th. Yeah, the ones with the non-hand-made signs and not including the 12 actual feminists who went along for the ride.

      • Oh the unions? Newsflash the city of Detroit was harmed by systemic and institutional racism. The Automotive industry does indeed have to do with the cities problems but that had very little to do with unions and more to do with white flight. They moved the industry out of the city and left it for the suburbs.

        You should probably learn more about the city before you pretend to know what has happened here in the last 60 years.

        • Teflon Expat

          There is no way that white flight = aptitude flight.

          • sarahgray

            This comment about having to move to the suburbs to have a garden shows you know nothing about Detroit.

          • Teflon Expat

            It comes with a garden. Moving away from others not of your race is considered racist?

          • sarahgray

            So do many many (possibility the majority) of houses in Detroit.

            Moving to get away from black folks is, indeed, racist.

          • Teflon Expat

            Then staying put despite the lack of cohesion and commonality with your neighbors…solves exactly what? Did black folk state that white who decide to stay are not racist for having stayed?

          • Facepalm

            The same people who whine about “white flight” are also the same people who bitch about “gentrification” when white people move into minority neighbourhoods. Apparently white people shouldn’t live anywhere.

        • You really should learn more about what happened during those years Amanda.
          It was called free trade and it paved the way for companies to stop paying decent wages and move their companies. Where employees could be paid pennies on the dollar comparatively speaking.
          Happened to steel town of the north, aka Hamilton. Free trade came and the businesses moved to Mexico to pay 3$ / day in wages instead of 25$/ hour

          • “Free trade” says someone who is ignoring white flight and systemic racism. Oh ok. You should read up on the history of Detroit.

          • So do tell economically speaking how was Detroit doing before freetrade?
            “Detroit’s alarming decline can be attributed to the crippling effects of
            the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) and the flood of
            foreign-made cars into the United States. Under NAFTA, manufacturing in
            America has all but been eliminated. In order to compete, Detroit’s
            automotive companies were forced to lower costs by outsourcing their
            operations to Mexico. Essentially, NAFTA made manufacturing cars in the
            U.S. too expensive. As a result, Detroit factories closed down and jobs
            were lost. The hard-won wealth of Detroit disappeared to make room for
            “free trade.”
            We use to ship Detroit its steel Amanda.
            I live in Hamilton.

          • muckraker_steve

            That’s such an oversimplification of what happened in Detroit.

          • Teflon Expat

            Can it happen nationally? If so, lets not do it anywhere else, whatever it was

          • It had to be simplified or would have been misunderstood by feminists Steve.
            (BTW same thing happened here in Hamilton)

          • So is the reason you are citing something that happened 40 years after the city started to decline due to you being an MRA? I just thought it was because you don’t understand the historical context but I guess this is where we can go.

          • I see you have an issue with reading and or comprehension.
            I mentioned the same thing happened in Hamilton. We used to ship Detroit its steel. Our economy was semi-dependent on Detroit’s economy.
            Then NAFTA happened.

          • Auntie Alias

            Of course because women are stupid. Got it.

          • Teflon Expat

            Fem. I. Nists. Now you got it…

          • There’s no male feminist Auntie?
            How so very sexist of you.

            What’s next from you, some racism? Some violence?

          • Auntie Alias

            If you don’t believe women are stupid, why do you hang out on a website that paints all women as stupid?

          • Teflon Expat

            Only feminist women. It is a little harsh. But look at all the attention it gets! Petitions. Protests. Rants. If it were women in general there would be none of that.

          • I tend to stay away from feminist sites like manboobz / we hunted the mammoth, mancheeze, Jezebel, etc Auntie.
            Those are the major ones that paint all women as stupid.

          • Teflon Expat

            StrongIndependentWomen™ or victims or stupid

          • Auntie Alias

            Non-responsive.

          • NAFTA happened almost 40 years after Detroit’s population started declining and the auto industry had abandoned the city. While that is a factor in why the industry suffered after it was enacted in the mid 90s pretending it was why decades earlier race riots happened and white people left the city is incorrect. White flight and racism were two huge factors in the city’s decline.

          • Teflon Expat

            White flight = aptitude flight?
            Do whites need to stay so that blacks can thrive?

          • What no mention of Detroit being known for its ‘Hell’s Night’ activities?
            Detroit’s population started to decline after the 50’s. People had the means to move away from the city and into suburbs.
            Let’s say there was a perfect utopia with no race riots, how does a city sustain itself without jobs?
            Hamilton, my hometown got destroyed after NAFTA too. We didn’t have race
            riots, we had a booming economy, and yet after NAFTA we go down the
            shitter.
            Detroit’s biggest issue was its was the motor city and when the big automakers left town all the jobs and money left with them.
            Civil rights / race riots happened across the USA in the 60’s. Detroit was not the only city where they happened. Which makes your argument about race riots even less of a factor in Detroit’s bankruptcy.
            No jobs = no $ = no population.

          • sarahgray

            Huh? “Hell’s Night”?

          • Teflon Expat

            Is that like Hell’s Day, officially June 7?

          • Nah June 7 was an eclipse of logic in Detroit.

          • Teflon Expat

            A group brain freeze

          • My bad ‘Devil’s Night’
            “Devil’s Night is a name associated with October 30, the night before Halloween. It is related to the “Mischief night” practiced in other parts of the United States and the world, but is chiefly associated with the serious vandalism and arson seen in Detroit, Michigan from the 1970s to the 1990s,[1] finally prompting the “Angels’ Night” community response.”
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil%27s_Night

          • sarahgray

            Detroit had lost a lot of population already by the mid sixties. Many people left well before crime went up or the riots occurred.

          • Teflon Expat

            But they weren’t racist because there were no black neighbors yet?

          • sarahgray

            What do you mean, no black neighbors?

            You should learn some about the history of Detroit before yapping about it.

          • Teflon Expat

            Thats why its a question, you pompous lip flapper. Read before reacting

          • Lemanda Avitt

            Those mean old white people, they should have stuck around a failing metropolis to be taxed to death to subsidize losers who vote for losers, anything less is total racism.

          • Teflon Expat

            White flight = aptitude flight?

    • “People passing through the city particularly if they are white have the lowest chance of being victims of violence.”
      White women make up the smallest portion of victims, followed by women of colour.
      Still feminism would have society believe there is a war on women.
      Thanks for contradicting feminism for us Amanda.

      • I’m not contradicting feminism at all. You want to ignore how race, gender and social location impact who deals with violence while disregarding the ignorant statements made by people at AVFM. That has more to do with you all ignoring white privilege and not understanding the space you take up.

        • Gender and ignores who deals with violence.
          Dear god your a comedy writer right?

          • Teflon Expat

            Nah, just one of the minority who can’t deal with innate differences among humans

  • Teflon Expat

    Dont blame Steve for writing such a pro-feminist article. He knows full well that threats of violence from feminists, like those directed at the Doubletree, will be aimed at anyone who offends feminists.

    • driversuz

      This is true. He needs to stay on the porch.

  • Leyland ‘Lee’ DeVito

    Do you think this article might be a little biased, Steve?

    • driversuz

      Steve knows who pays his bills.

      • Joy

        Are you seriously suggesting that women are lining up to pay his bills or that feminists are slipping him cash to write this? You, lady, are an imbecile.

        • Teflon Expat

          Feminists. Its only about feminists. The word “women” is hereby banned.

        • driversuz

          Really, Joy? Feminists just played a part in downtown Detroit losing untold thousands of dollars worth of business over 4 days, but they couldn’t possibly influence the employment status of a self proclaimed journalist, whose job might (gee, ya think) depend on some level of advertising revenue?

          Because let me guess, women (and therefore feminists, according to you) have no power, no influence, no agency, and they’re all helpless downtrodden victims. Right?

          • Teflon Expat

            Feminists are just rage-a-holics with no influence and that lack of influence leads to more rage and so forth. Its a tortured existence.

          • driversuz

            Feminists purchase billions of dollars worth of influence every year.

          • Teflon Expat

            And yet they rage on? An insatiable bunch they are. Like flesh eating bacteria

          • Auntie Alias

            Bad planning was responsible for the chaos.

          • Teflon Expat

            Kneejerk hyper emotional temper tantrums are rarely well planned. Ample time left to try again.

          • driversuz

            Sure it was. “Citation, please.”
            Ugh.

          • Auntie Alias

            We’ll see how many people attend this shindig and then we’ll know.

          • Teflon Expat

            What will you do with this knowledge? Lay down, legs all flaying around, make monkey sounds and masterbate? Thats about all you’re going to be able to do.

          • Auntie Alias

            You’re a disgusting pig.

          • Biot

            100% agreed about him.

          • Auntie Alias

            Thank you.

          • Matthew Lane

            Nothing wrong with masturbation Alias. Maybe give it a shot.

          • Auntie Alias

            You are one, too.

            Since I can’t post that link in the other site, here it is. Read it and weep.
            http://web.archive.org/web/20110702180031/http://www.avoiceformen.com/2010/10/22/if-you-see-jezebel-in-the-road-run-the-bitch-down/

          • Matthew Lane

            “You are one, too.”
            you are one too what? what am I one too of?
            Your comment is malformed.

          • Matthew Lane

            Yep, bad planning…. Because we cant plan for feminists NOT to talk shit & make violent threats to a hotel.

        • driversuz

          Go away, pest. Your frantic and desperate attempts to hold onto the public narrative, are becoming tiresome.

          • Teflon Expat

            A legend in her own mind

        • Mike Hunt

          And you are a crazy mouse lady, because being a crazy cat lady wasn’t quite crazy enough.

          No one who isn’t already complete deluded takes anything you say seriously.

        • Mike Hunt

          This is what people see when you post your crap, diana:

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyugJ8LCW0U

    • muckraker_steve

      Not at all. Do more research about them and then decide.

      • rhoneyman

        steve, are you planning to interview the organizer? should be an interesting read.

        • muckraker_steve

          Thanks for the question. I plan on interviewing him soon. He writes about this exhaustively on his blog.

          • DannyZeta

            How many articles have you written on this so far? Piss poor yellow journalism man.

          • Teflon Expat

            The next one is already in the works. It takes time to scour message boards and to decipher every word on the AVfM site and place them into the desired context.

      • Leyland ‘Lee’ DeVito

        It’s news that people say shitty things on comments sections and message boards? We both already know that to be true. 🙂

        I could pull up a million totally insane and profanity-laced posts from feminist and social justice tumblrs … that doesn’t mean that feminism or social justice are insane.

        • muckraker_steve

          These aren’t just people on message boards. These are the organizers of the event being dismissive and vicious to would-be conference attendees. Whether it happened over the phone or a message board is irrelevant.

          • Teflon Expat

            Feminist protest activities led to positive growth for AVfM. Its understandable that you’re now desiring to fragment the group in order to undo that particularly embarrassing unintended result. How’s that working out for ya, ‘journalist?’

          • DannyZeta

            I agree steve, their a bunch of a-holes, but you’re slime in the gutter.

      • Let me try and translate this article into English, strictly in my opinion of course.

        Threats of violence are made by event protesters which have facilitated a move in the location of the event.

        That violence is now reframed as the responsibility of AVfM to account for the alleged troubles of an alleged ticketholder.

        If members of the KKK engineered the move of a civil rights rally, you think the story there is that one would-be rally attendee was inconvenienced by the move, and that that inconvenience is the ultimate fault of the rally-ers, and not the KKK.

        Okay. Good to know where you stand, Steve.

        • Teflon Expat

          countdown to threat denial!

          • Teflon Expat

            Wow that was a record!!

        • sarahgray

          What threats of violence? Did the police give you a detailed report?
          I thought that the current excuse is that they needed more room, not that Doubletree canceled because of threats?

          • Teflon Expat

            You’re getting slow! That threat denial took over a minute.

          • muckraker_steve

            But she does ask very legitimate questions about the threats. And you didn’t answer them.

          • Teflon Expat

            Why WHY is there such a constant emphasis on these now weeks old threats that have no impact on anything regarding feminists?

          • driversuz

            The questions have been answered several time and in more than one place. I would suggest that the real problem is with those who refuse to read them.

          • Teflon Expat

            If for ONCE she actually admitted or revealed why she wants this information and what she intends to do with it…well that might help those with the information she seeks say “hey, I got that right here” and poof, she’d be done.

          • sarahgray

            Why else would I want the information other than to know the truth?

          • Teflon Expat

            Why? for um like the 22nd time

          • sarahgray

            I answered.

            How exactly can you guarantee that no one from the hotel will ever address the issue, or prevent FOIA requests from being fulfilled?

          • Teflon Expat

            Had any luck? You may eventually succeed. Is after the conference ok with you or not? Are you going to answer that or strategically ignore as usual?

          • whatever

            Steven, you are the reporter. What did you find out when you spoke to:

            AVFM?
            The Doubletree manager and Doubletree staff?
            The Detroit Police?

            Did you see the original fax from the hotel? What does your analysis say about it? Legit or forgery?

            When you traced the case numbers that have been posted, what have you found?

          • politicalcynic

            The information regarding the threats was publicly posted on Twitter (police report numbers) and the fact that the threats were reported to the Detroit police was actually confirmed-by a feminist blogger.

          • sarahgray

            Who reported threats?
            As far as I can tell, the DPD did not even confirm threats reported for over a week after that letter was posted.

            The threats that *have* been reported since then have been unsubstantiated.

        • muckraker_steve

          The “threats of violence” had nothing to do with the change in venue, according to AVfM. The group changed the conference location because organizers said there was a surge in demand. And the “threats” have never been substantiated. But it is a constant narrative of the Men’s Rights Movement to cast feminists as terrorists.

          • Teflon Expat

            And its very entertaining to watch the evidence ‘investigators’ fail. Over and over.

          • Uhm, no, that’s not quite what we said Steve.

            You really should call or write us and ask for statements before you run your stories. Just saying.

            Quick tip: that mammoth guy? Not a reliable source at all.

            Hey, meet me for lunch some time. My treat. 🙂

          • Teflon Expat

            Best not an outdoor cafe. Sharpie people are lurking

          • Auntie Alias

            The other thing [the insane backlash against the International Conference on Men’s Issues] has produced is a hell of a lot more interest in the conference, and more ticket sales. So much so, as a matter of fact, that we have opted to move to a venue that will seat more people and provide more security than was available previously.
            — Paul Elam

          • Teflon Expat

            Aint life grand!

          • Joy

            C’mon Auntie you know they’re incapable of reading comprehension, even when they write it.

          • Teflon Expat

            Eh, whatever drives that thorn deeper into the collective feminists side. Apparently it worked.

          • Auntie Alias

            If it conflicts with their woman-hating, it never happened.

          • Teflon Expat

            Fem.
            I.
            Nist.

            Resistance is cute but futile

          • Mike Hunt

            More ironic projection from mouse lady.

          • karen straughan

            You seem to have missed the “provide more security” part of that statement.

            More attendees means more people to protect. Having those people divided up between a main hall and an overflow room or two presents some difficulties, security-wise.

            There’s also the potential inconvenience to other hotel guests who have nothing to do with the conference. I’m sure families on vacation would really enjoy their stay at a hotel crawling with uniformed police officers and fronted by crowds of protesters, no? I’m sure they’d be overjoyed to hear that the DPD was there to protect THEM (and their kids) from potential assaults, as well as attendees and speakers.

            Having all the speakers and organizers staying at one hotel is also, given the nature of the backlash, perhaps not the best idea.

            The VFW is on a large piece of private property, with the building set well off the public road. More than this, it is not a facility like a hotel, where just anyone can enter and walk around inside the premises (whether they’re guests or not). Protesters with bullhorns will not be able to disrupt the conference without trespassing. Problems can be more easily kept well off-property.

            At the hotel, any nut with a gun would be able to (and have every right to) walk right into the hotel and get within a few feet of the conference space. At the VFW, this isn’t going to be as easy.

            The new location is both larger (able to accommodate the increase in attendees) AND more secure.

            But you spin it however you like.

          • Auntie Alias

            Do you expect me to believe AVFM inconvenienced everyone over some unsubstantiated threats and an alleged overflow problem? I’m not buying it.

            This has been an impressive display of creativity and chutzpah. At some point, though, the compounding lies will be exposed.

          • karen straughan

            I don’t expect you, in particular, to believe anything I say. I could tell you the grass is green or water is wet, and you’d believe I have some hidden agenda.

            I know Futrelle’s blog *feels* like therapy to you with all the comment banter about kitties and bunnies and the like, but all it does is reinforce your paranoia. People like him have a vested interest in keeping you sick, not seeing you happy and well-adjusted.

          • Auntie Alias

            Oh brother. Projection overload. Hopefully, the truth will set you free some day.

          • karen straughan

            What’s your diagnosis, Auntie? I’m genuinely curious.

            Not what you think I have, mind you, but what your therapist thinks you have.

          • Auntie Alias

            The day I align myself with a hate movement, I’ll be sure to set up an appointment and ask.

          • karen straughan

            You seem to be a year or two late for that appointment.

            Never mind. I can wait.

          • Mike Hunt

            You are very much aligned with a hate movement.

          • Auntie Alias

            Here’s the difference. Feminists don’t hate all men and only despises the MRM. The MRM hates all women and not just feminists.

          • Mike Hunt

            Projection again.

            You have that backwards.

          • Auntie Alias

            “you affordable solipsistic pigeon, you”

            LOL

          • Mike Hunt

            Do you not know how to read?

          • Auntie Alias

            You know how to edit, sort of.

          • Mike Hunt

            Get some glasses, David.

          • Auntie Alias

            Dear Mike,

            I copied and pasted your quote. Then you changed “affordable” to the non-word “adordable”. Personally, I thought “affordable” was much funnier.

            Auntie Alias aka David

          • Mike Hunt

            Dear Auntie Alias,

            Get some glasses and stop lying. You are downright pathological.

            Mike

          • Auntie Alias

            Dear Mike,

            It’s true that I need a new glasses prescription. Sadly, my compensation from the multi-billion dollar feminism industrial complex has been delayed and I’m unable to afford an upgrade at this time.

            Nevertheless, copy pasta doesn’t lie. I recommend you lighten up before you pop a blood vessel. Aneurysms are no fun.

            Warm wishes for your health,
            AA

          • Teflon Expat

            Delayed due to the MRM stalling that cash flow?

          • Mike Hunt

            There’s no proof that any typos were ever made.

          • Teflon Expat

            You’re good. They couldn’t find the proof of anything even if it was affixed to some childish protest sign

          • Auntie Alias

            You’re adordable.

          • Mike Hunt

            Eww! I know a rape threat when I see one. Stay away from me! Police, police!

          • Auntie Alias

            LOL There you go! That’s more like it. 🙂

          • Mike Hunt

            I hope everyone is paying attention the fact that Auntie Alias just admitted she wants to rape me.

          • Auntie Alias

            That’s a false adordable accusation!

          • Mike Hunt

            Holy shit, it has a sense of humour. Colour me surprised.

          • HellIsOtherPeople

            Wow, the ableism of the AVFM staff isn’t even subtle anymore.

          • Mike Hunt

            Irony.

          • Teflon Expat

            What the American people believe is all that matters. Frustratingly, you and these feminist characters are shunned from the mainstream media.

          • Mike Hunt

            No one expects *you* to believe anything. You’re a mentally unhinged lunatic

          • Auntie Alias

            Says the angry dude contributing nothing but insults.

          • Mike Hunt

            In not angry. You’re projecting again. Is that all you know how to do?

            As for insults, that’s all I’ve got left for you. Life’s too short to waste energy trying to have an adult discussion with Auntie Alias and Company: The marvellous board-shitting pigeons.

          • Auntie Alias

            “In not angry.”

            Uh huh.

          • Mike Hunt

            🙂

          • Mike Hunt

            Wow. Such point. Very proof. Much confuse.

          • DannyZeta

            Did you bother to check sources, like the Police?

          • whatever

            Are you a reporter, or a mere blogger?

          • politicalcynic

            Rhetorical question, I presume. LOL

          • Mike Hunt

            He’s had no more integrity than mancheese. He’s just another brainwashed ideologue.

      • DannyZeta

        “VFW Post in St. Clair Shores, where protesters are expected to gather.”

        Your link does not support this claim. Internal rabble from the protestors indicates that protest is unlikely on private property where they will be given zero leeway and promptly ejected and arrested.

        “Let those Wayne State cunts fuck themselves up their own asses,” Janet Bloomfield tweeted.

        -Although technically true, it is incomplete and lacking context that it was a quote from someone else.

        Piss poor journalism, but I’ve seen even worse in higher end rags so you’re in good company of slime in the gutter.

        • wreck something

          Bloomfield has admitted the tweet was not a quote from someone else.

          • HellIsOtherPeople

            No, see, when you say that she said it it’s a quote from someone else, but when you say it’s a quote from someone else she was just “trolling”. You know, exactly the kind of mature PR management you expect.

      • whatever

        Feminists protest conference and try to get it shut down.

        Instead of shutting down it moves.

        Feminists complain conference has moved.

        Certifiable nutcase pretends to be reporter. And an Astronaut. And a Firemen. Mommy, mommy come change my diaper. I want my bottle.

      • Mike Hunt

        Just how big is your rectum that you have managed to insert your entire head into it?

  • driversuz

    I think “harsh and dismissive” is the appropriate response to a highly emotional temper tantrum thrown by a person who is old enough to know better. Even if that person is a woman.

    • Auntie Alias

      “I think “harsh and dismissive” is the appropriate response”

      You’re certainly the expert on that.

  • Steve, have you even confirmed with AVFM that this Patrice Stanton character has purchased a ticket to the conference? Also, the idea that hotel reservations are “locked in” so far in advance is silly.

    • I had a nice chat with Patrice today. She’ll be at the conference.

      Things like this are always confusing, especially when you’re trying to organize a conference and are trying not to attack innocent hotel employees caught in the middle, innocent cops caught in the middle, and so on. We don’t want to disparage anyone except whoever the hell made the threatening phone calls. Beyond that, nothing we can do but say “sorry what a massive PITA this all is.”

      • Teflon Expat

        Got evidence of that chat?
        -SG

        • driversuz

          Bahahaha!
          Channeling Sarah?

    • karen straughan

      Some of the attendees, IIRC, only learned the hotel event was cancelled when they were notified by the hotel that their room reservations were cancelled. I don’t see how Patrice would be locked into her reservation given that other attendees’ reservations were cancelled by the hotel. The entire situation seems to be a giant clusterfuck of short notice and confusion.

      • Teflon Expat

        Feminist death threats do tend to create confusion and chaos.

  • We “flood comment sections” when someone writes an article about us? OK Steve. By the way why did you lie and claim you tried to contact me when you didn’t? Oh never mind.

    It would also be nice if you’d stop referring to “feminists” and “women” as if they’re interchangeable, when in fact most women don’t self-identify as feminists and many of the people you’re claiming are making angry comments about “women” are in fact women of our movement–and feminism is an idea, not a person or demographic.

    But meh, otherwise, fair enough reporting I guess. If you ever, you know, want that interview you asked for, you know where to find me.

    Cheers.

    • sarahgray

      Do you have evidence Steve never called you?

      On the other hand, there is AMPLE evidence that MRAs, members of AVfM in particular, flood comment threads. Sometimes they have even been offered payment to do so!

      • driversuz

        His cell phone company has proof. Do you feel entitled to demand to see it?

        Why would “we” not call out lies, rumors, innuendos and unsound logic used in attempts to slander us and undermine our advocacy for men and boys?

      • Lucian Vâlsan

        „Sometimes they have even been offered payment to do so!” – Oh, I would love to see evidence of that.

        • driversuz

          I don’t need the evidence, I want to see the cash! I could use the extra income!

          • Sarah is referring to something AVfM did 3 years ago back when it was a tiny web site with only a tiny handful of followers. It’s lovely how our critics hold every single thing ever said or done on the site and hold it up as exemplary, standard, and everyday and ordinary rather than unusual. It was so long ago we did anything like that we didn’t even remember it until the AgainstMensRights bigots brought it up on Reddit recently, as if it’s some amazing discovery: ooh, 3 years ago we offered people a small bounty for going into a comment section to challenge bigots. News flash, we haven’t done that in years.

            You know, you guys really ought to pick up a phone and call us for a quote before you run stories like that. It’s not like we’re hard to reach.

          • Lucian Vâlsan

            You know what? You’re right.
            Let’s dial 0-800-Patriarchy and demand our fair share. I could definitely use some money these days.

        • sarahgray

          Tried to find the reddit thread that I saw that linked to the offers of payments for comments on AVfM’s site, but I must have read it on a different device.

          • Teflon Expat

            Yeah, on the carton of Ben & Jerry’s

          • It’s on either /r/againstmensrights or the forum of that girl who’s raising money to attend the conference to mock us. Anyway, I’ve just confirmed it for you, we did do that. Three years ago.

          • Teflon Expat

            Damn, now what will show go frantically looking for the entire rest of the day?

          • whatever

            Did you do that? My understanding was:

            If you look, what you’ll find is that:

            AVFM NEVER offered to pay for comments at AVFM’s site.

            BUT LIKE NPR FUND DRIVES

            A donor pledged to donate money to AVFM, to match comments that commenters placed on a website that had been spewing nonsense. Much like this post of Steve’s.

            No one was paid for their comments.
            AVFM did not pay for comments.

          • Guest

            If you look, what you’ll find is that:

            AVFM NEVER offered to pay for comments at AVFM’s site.

            BUT LIKE NPR FUND DRIVES

            A donor pledged to donate money to AVFM, to match comments that commenters placed on a website that had been spewing nonsense. Much like this post of Steve’s.

            No one was paid for their comments.
            AVFM did not pay for comments.

          • Gun OfSod

            It’s true, Paul Elam personally subsidises my highly trained troop of typing, shill monkeys to the tune of many 10’s of dollars annually.

            I will confirm with photo’s of simian fecal matter, to a reddit thread in the near furure.

          • Lucian Vâlsan

            Don’t worry, I’ll wait. I’ll get back on this thread even a week from now.
            Just bring it on.

      • Teflon Expat

        How is all that ‘evidence’ hunting going in general? You really do suck at it.

      • The onus of proof is on the one making a claim.

        • Teflon Expat

          Investigative skills required. ooops

        • sarahgray

          Yes, Dean should provide evidence for all the claims he is making.

          • Teflon Expat

            Yes, right after the conference. Can you wait that long?

          • sarahgray

            Funny that no evidence has been given for all these supposed threats that have moved the conference out of Detroit.

            Its also funny that Paul is claiming he can’t give details because of legal issues, but its pretty clear from the financial information available that that isn’t possible.

          • Teflon Expat

            So, that means you can wait just under two weeks. Is that ok? If not, why not.

          • G Trieste

            I thought a copy of the letter received from DoubleTree was posted online, redacted for the names.
            Isn’t that proof enough?

          • sarahgray

            No, that’s not proof. The hotel has not confined they sent any letter; in fact, they flatly denied sending any such letter.

          • Teflon Expat

            So, after bellowing this exact sentiment now for what, two weeks, what are you doing about it?

          • If you can explain to you how I provide proof that I have no record whatsoever of emails received or phone calls received from you, let me know.

            Or maybe we could just note you guys made an editorial oversight and will one day, ya know, act like I’m a source on the story you’re covering and just call me. Really, I’m not mad at you, and I’m not a mean guy. And I only bite when it’s consensual. 😉

          • sarahgray

            I never said I called you, Dean. Please keep up.

          • Teflon Expat

            Feminist threatened the hotel. Please keep up.

            a one, a two, a three…

          • sarahgray

            Repeating unsubstantiated claims over and over will not actually make them true.

            The police and hotel have not reported any such thing .

          • Teflon Expat

            So what next? Can you wait until just after the conference? Why not? Do tell

          • Mike Hunt

            Irony, lies and projection, oh my.

          • In accuracy, we don’t know exactly who the threats came from. I suppose it could have been misguided fools who believed the hateful lies and had no more ideological agenda than that.

          • Teflon Expat

            But it may be too late to remove the tarnish it caused the feminists. That is their concern when claiming to want the ‘truth’

            Get ready for the barrage…

      • How can I prove a negative? He claimed that strenuous efforts to reach us were made yet we have ZERO emails and ZERO phone records to match that, except when he finally called Paul AFTER you went to press on your second story for a comment.

        Referring to something AVfM did three years ago when it first started is really pretty cheap. Are you journalists or aren’t you? Cite your sources, be accurate, please, that’s all I ask.

        • sarahgray

          I’m not a journalist. This isn’t my site.

          Reading for comprehension is key.

          • Teflon Expat

            Join the nobody-here-is-a-journalist club

          • That’s fair; somehow my brain saw “moderator” next to your name when it’s clearly not there. My bad. Retracted.

          • Teflon Expat

            Only the ‘give me evidence or give me death’ monitor

    • HellIsOtherPeople

      “We “flood comment sections” when someone writes an article about us? OK Steve.”

      Oh the irony. Why don’t you try denying that claim when half of your masthead HASN’T flooded the comments section of this very article?