muckraker report

Controversial men’s rights conference canceled at DoubleTree in downtown Detroit

Men rights protest_5845

Photos by Steve Neavling

Update: Event organizer A Voice for Men announces new venue for the conference

A controversial conference for a men’s rights group in Detroit appears to be in jeopardy after a fallout with downtown’s Hilton DoubleTree, which planned to host the event from June 26-28.

The inaugural conference at the DoubleTree has been canceled for unknown reasons, and organizers of the first International Conference on Men’s Issues haven’t said yet whether it will be moved to another hotel and conference center.

“At this time, they are not booked with us,” Larry Brown, manager of the DoubleTree, said this morning. He declined to elaborate on the cancelation.

But event organizers with A Voice for Men said they will be announcing a new Detroit venue for the conference later today.

Men Rights Protest

“We have rescheduled the venue on another site,” Voice for Men founder Paul Elam told us. “The conference is going on.”

The event has provoked outrage among opponents of the Men’s Rights Movement, which has been labeled as a troublesome group by the Southern Poverty Law Center because of its staunch anti-feminism.

About 200 protesters gathered outside the DoubleTree on Saturday to demand that the hotel cancel the event.

When asked Tuesday whether the event would be moved, an organizer responded: “The DoubleTree GM (general manager) actually said that he has ‘feminist phobia’ and sort of laughed but in a nervous way. So its being discussed.”

It’s questionable whether this conversation ever occurred because the general manager is a woman.

A Voice for Men claims boys and men are oppressed by irrational feminists. The group also accuses women of exaggerating the severity of rape and denounces “the institution of marriage as unsafe and unsuitable for modern men.”

Organizers of the demonstration amassed more than 3,000 signatures from opponents of the conference.

Check back for updates.

Steve Neavling

Steve Neavling lives and works in Detroit as an investigative journalist. His stories have uncovered corruption, led to arrests and reforms and prompted FBI investigations.

  • Vanessa Ray

    Go to any YouTube video about almost anything to do with women’s rights {feminism, female genital mutilation, rape}, and you’ll see a comment section full of over-privileged man children calling women c*nts and saying things like “rape’s no big deal.”, while crying about everything that’s wrong with their lives because of women. I hate that actual important issues facing men get drowned out by a brigade of inadequate crusaders who believe that equal rights means “I can put her in a coma if she fucks with me.”

    A sample comment:
    http://youtu.be/geQyrBGS_60

  • flailer

    Silencing the oppressed is the hallmark of Ignorance, Bigotry, Hatred, Fascism, Marxism, &, yes, Feminism too.

    Link:
    The Transformation Of Feminism Into A Hate Movement And Their Censorship Of Free Speech http://masculistfeminist.hubpages.com/hub/The-Transformation-Feminism-Into-A-Hate-Movement-And-Censorship-Of-Free-Speech

    More PROOF that Feminism is a Hate Movement, & that MGTOW & Going Galt are the ONLY viable options Western Men have today.

  • Eric Coan

    Don’t men have the right to peacefully assemble and discuss issues? Doesn’t everyone? They may not like feminists but they are not required to either.

  • Darth Jader

    Well, looks like the conference went ahead, and Civilly too….it would seem that during a previous camp out and protest all the idiot feminists gave themselves food poisoning from tainted Salami…..BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA Karma’s a bitch, ain’t it.

    IN YOUR FUCKING FACE CHANTY BINX!!!!

  • mephisto

    Steve Neavling – investigative journalist?
    what a crock of sheet. One of the most biased, un-investigated articles I have ever read. What’s the matter Steve? Afraid of a few feminists camped outside your work and where you live?You are a coward and a very poor excuse of a journalist.

    • Darth Jader

      ummmm….he agrees with the feminists (he must be psychotic…or a mangina)….so I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t mind a few feminists camped outside….he seems to side with them….I agree with the rest of your comment though.

  • FireBits

    What is this useless Patriarchy that has banned circumcision of girls, but allows foreskin of boys used in female cosmetics. How can little boys be privileged when their genitalia is used in women’s beauty products meanwhile circumcision of girls is considered to be terrible and inhuman?

  • FireBits

    There should be no ideological movement free of criticism! That is how Nazism in Germany begin. Feminists do not have moral high ground. It’s just a political movement driven by fundamental ideology just like Marxism, national socialism or such thing in the past.

    Feminist try to say that MRAs are evil, because they are anti-feminists, but feminism doesn’t own definitions of good and evil.

  • http://khanneasunztu.wordpress.com/ KhanneaSuntzu

    I had a look at this “men” conference and I can understand why feminists would want to protest against it.

    • FireBits

      Can explain me too? Is it because they hate men and boys so much that their issues has to be silenced about?

      • Auntie Alias

        It’s because the organizers and the speakers hate women.

        • http://www.avoiceformen.com John Narayan

          Don’t lie.

        • FireBits

          They don’t like radical feminists or dishonest feminists. They have nothing against women as a gender and some of them are women.

          • Auntie Alias

            Nice try but no. All six quotes on this graphic express hatred of women, NOT FEMINISTS.
            https://manboobz.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/w1zg80i.jpg

          • FireBits

            Feminists blame men all the time of everything. So I wonder why women should be above criticism? It’s not hating when you point out facts.

            #killallmen is a feminist’s hashtag. And wouldn’t be difficult to prove feminist’s misandry that goes beyond any level of criticism taken out of context on manboobz. We don’t even joke about cutting female percentage to 10% but some feminists do that to men and they are serious. Then people are freaking out when we make the Nazi comparison.

            Women will be criticized! Deal with it! Without doing that we can’t help anyone, not men nor women.

          • Auntie Alias

            Talking about male violence and sexism against women isn’t hate.

            Those weren’t facts in the graphic; they were opinions and they were hateful opinions.
            Paul Elam: “Bash a Violent Bitch” isn’t wrong.
            Mike Buchanan: Women grow up to be “Entitlement Princesses”.
            Stefan Molyneuw: Women are responsible for all the evil in the world.
            Erin Pizzey: Women want to be raped.
            Karen Straughan: Women want to be beaten up.
            Warren Farrell: Women want to be raped and their lack of consent can be ignored.

            All of it is misogyny.

          • FireBits

            And talking about female violence still wrong? What?

            Women are as sexist as men. You can’t never force people to think right. Because by nature men and women are little bit sexist.

            Women are indeed entitled princesses. Western woman is most entitled class ever. Everything is laid for them. You should check your privilege lady!

            Erin Pizzey talked about rape fantasies. I have personally heard woman admitting she has rape fantasy and likes rough sex, but even she didn’t mean she wants to be raped for real.

            Karen Straughan is right. One of my relatives was a crazy woman who really wanted to be beaten up. I was a kid, and once I saw her teasing her current man, who never was violent. And when she wasn’t able to get him hit her, she decided to shout out “Stop hitting me”, so at least neighbors would think he is hitting her. She loved sympathy she got from getting abused and she hated her passive partner who used muteness as a weapon.

          • Auntie Alias

            “And talking about female violence still wrong? What?”

            If you mean what Elam said, violence is always wrong unless it’s in self-defense. He’s not explicitly talking about self-defense; he’s talking about disproportional violence as revenge and he’s enjoying it just a bit too much.

            The rape fantasy argument is used to justify rape but as you correctly said fantasy and reality are not the same. So why even bring it up? In this case she did because she was asked a question about Paul Elam saying it but he had no business bringing it up either. Her comments about feminists being obsessed with rape because they were frustrated about lack of male attention were ignorant at best.

            See, the problem with using anecdotes about domestic violence is the implication is that ALL women want to be beaten up. That and the rape fantasy argument are insidious devices used to give men who are violent a built-in excuse to commit violence. They’re also used to diminish empathy for women who are victims of violence.

          • FireBits

            I rather not having conversation about conversations taken out of context. All things that they say makes sense when context is given. And I don’t say they never cross the line of good taste, because the situation of men and boys is absolutely infuriating like.

            Circumcision of girls is banned,
            but foreskin of boys is allowed to be used in female cosmetics. How can little
            boys be privileged when their genitalia is used in women’s beauty
            products meanwhile circumcision of girls is considered to be terrible
            and inhuman?

            And why to talk about rape fantasy. Well, when women want rough sex which can easily look like a rape, is very difficult position for a man. I don’t was this about that exactly, but you have to understand that women’s rape fantasy is reflecting on the sex they prefer to have, and is way to convenient in case where you want to make false rape accusation.

            They don’t mean all women. You have to understand that they are talking about examples that are usual in some families that play big part in domestic violence statistics.

            Watch the videos from Toronto, and do not speak me until you have watched them.

          • Auntie Alias

            “foreskin of boys is allowed to be used in female cosmetics.”

            Holy shit. I had to google that to confirm and it’s disgusting!

            I’ll have to take a raincheck on the videos and further discussion due to computer problems.

          • Darth Jader

            Uh, no, he was talking about self defense, taken further to recoup some of what they lost by being abused by those women, who got away with it because it’s socially acceptable for a woman to hit a man, but if he lifts a finger in response, he’s fucked.

          • Auntie Alias

            In other words, brutal revenge.

          • Darth Jader

            funny how you call it “battered wife syndrome” when a woman brutally murders her husband in cold blood…but after years of being a punching bag for his woman a dude finally loses his patience and fights back, dishing out some of what she’s dished him, it’s “brutal revenge”.

            fucking hypocrite.

            Again, you are a retard.

          • Darth Jader

            none of that has anything to do with what they said. Again, STFU Retard.

          • Darth Jader

            nice try but no. Where in any of those comments was there an indication of hatred towards women???? Please highlight examples so I can attack them directly. Until then you are just, once more, a RETARD.

    • http://www.avoiceformen.com John Narayan

      Don’t lie.

  • Darth Jader
  • Darth Jader

    way to misrepresent the FACTS Steve Neavling.

    Your position, and the Ftards protesting the conference (a human rights conference) makes it blatantly clear just how necessary the MRM is.

  • bookguitarguy

    You cowardly mangina prick, what right do you have to call someone else a liar, saying, “It’s questionable whether this conversation ever occurred because the general manager is a woman”?? If you had a brain that was a bit more nuanced, and capable of thinking outside the box that feminists have put you in, you’d realize that the fact that the GM is a woman actually makes it no less likely she’d have “feminist phobia” than if she were a man. Indeed, a woman, knowing how women operate better than men do, and possibly (neither YOU or I know this) a feminist sympathizer herself, might well have had a phobia of the damage that might be done by feminist boycotts of DoubleTrees nationwide, and/or the physical damage that feminist terrorists (who have made numerous threats of violence if this conference was held there), might have caused. You’re a worthless feminist tool, manipulated by the feminists who control you, and in your complete ignorance of the men’s rights issues that made this conference necessary in the first place, you work against the well-being of your brothers, throwing men and boys under the bus, to pander to your feminist audience (and possibly, your wife??). The fact that you’re allowed to have the word “Journalist” listed after your name is an embarrasment to the profession of journalism, it’s apparent to most of us that the standards of journalism have plummetted in recent years, but I had no idea just how much til I started reading articles in two-bit publications like this, where just about anyone who can strong a few sentences together in a reasonably coherent way gets to play “journalist”, and see their name in print. Did you make any effort to talk to the GM yourself, and ask her if she’d said that? Even if she denied it, would that prove she didn’t?? Of COURSE not, you idiot, people are saying things behind closed doors that they wouldn’t admit to publicly, all the time. Not only have you demonstrated your POOR journalistic skills by using POOR reasoning, and not gaining conclusive evidence (or ANY) to support your claim, before calling someone you don’t even know a LIAR, but the fact that you would make such an tactless and unnecessary accusation in the first place, reveals your lack of objectivity to your readers, more than anything could. The words Brown-Nosing, Candy-Assed Mangina Kiss-Up would be a more accurate description of you than “Investigative Journalist”, as far as I’m concerned, and if you grow a set of balls and want to educate yourself on the issues men’s rights advocates are fighting for, listening to videos by GirlWritesWhat on YouTube would be a very good start. You’re hurting women as much as men by covering for feminist terrorists, since feminism has done more harm to women than anything in the last hundred years or more, but you’re too stupid to realize it.

    • Auntie Alias

      You seem nice. They should get you to meet with reporters at the press conference.

    • Darth Jader

      Not to mention that “Journalism” is defined as OBJECTIVE reporting of events.

      This Steve Neavling HARDLY reported on this matter in an objective manner. Therefore we can CONCLUSIVELY say that Steve Neavling is absolutely NOT a journalist by any means.

  • brandall715

    I hear a lot of assertions theyre a hate group but not a lot of substantiation, in fact Ive seen no clear cut evidence theyre endorse hateful ideation. As a man of color Im acutely aware of similar smears that were perpretated against other civil rights movements to try and derail them and I have to say this seems strangely similar to that.

    Im college student and Im in Milwaukee, and Im very curious so I think Ill attend to hear what they have to say.

    • Darth Jader

      People like you are exactly what the radfems are afraid of….people like you are the reason the feminist groups have issued such violent threats, people like you are the reason feminists so desperately want to censor such human rights organizations as the MRM.

      Good on you man. Attend, and regard with an open mind. I’m sure you won’t agree with everything, but you will most certainly see the real reasons these fascist feminist groups are trying so hard to oppress this conference. Just look at what happened at the University of Toronto last year when Will Farrell was a guest speaker at a similar conference which got interrupted by fire alarms, banging on the doors, yelling, screaming, threats of violence.

      The real face of feminism is becoming mainstream.

  • Terrence S M Popp

    I am going to do a comedy skit about this on http://www.redonkulas.com

  • IOIOOIIOIO

    >It’s questionable whether this conversation ever occurred because the general manager is a woman.

    Your misogyny is showing.

    • Kimski

      Woman = feminist with these people.
      They can’t handle the fact that there’s real life women out there that disagrees with their consistent victimhood-narrative. You know, the kind of strong and independent women feminists claims to be.

      • Darth Jader

        God forbid a woman should think for herself eh?

    • sarahgray

      Note that the quote was attributed to a man. The general manager is a woman.

  • Josh Rogers

    MRAs are really just pathetic. It’s like one problem vs a million on the other side of things. Yea, dads don’t always have fair custody of their children, I’ve had friends go through that. You shouldn’t need a whole movement to solve one problem. It is a hate group primarily. it’s just the few sad dads out there are living in denial that it mostly is a hate group. You’d have be deluded to imagine otherwise. I could literally ask 200 + men that I know personally what rights do men not have, and I assure you 100% of them would laugh , and be like ” what.” Being born white and male is literally the best thing since sliced bread. Luckily for society 95% + of the world will always consider MRA to be a joke. This could also be a bad thing, because more of these people that need serious counseling might fly off the handle. If you seriously identify with this movement, go get some help ffs.

    • Mike Hunt

      Hi Josh,

      I hope you or your son get falsely accused of rape.

      Sincerely,

      A. Friend

      • Josh Rogers

        Hello failure of a internet troll.
        I hope your son isn’t as bad at trolling as you are.

        Sincerely,

        …………..

        • Mike Hunt

          I’m not trolling. I meant what I said. Best of luck.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com John Narayan

            Like Mike said.

        • FireBits

          I have to second Mike Hunt with this. What goes around comes around.

    • gary959

      Josh, I hope your wife doesn’t start with “I’m not happy…” and you end up in “family” I mean mothers’ court.

      • Josh Rogers

        Random internet dude, don’t assume I value traditional bullshit such as marriage. Then again, my lack of care for traditional bullshit is probably part of the reason I don’t feel sorry for myself for being born male. Maybe one day, we’ll break free from these chains. Oh the oppression. /sarcasm off.

    • Darth Jader

      No, YOU are really just pathetic. I’m not an MRA, but I agree with most of their position. For every one problem women face, men face 10, and it’s all thanks to feminism.

      There are so so so many more examples than the one you provide….(for example, ever been attacked by a female wielding a knife, and did what you had to to protect yourself or someone else? oh wait, no, you’re free to post here, you’re not in jail, so obviously you haven’t gone through that) it would take me more time than I currently have to list every single SERIOUS issue that men face.

      The MRM is a human rights movement, they are concerned about everyone….how that constitutes a “hate” movement is beyond me…..one would have to be absolutely delusional to think the MRM is a hate movement.

      S’funny, seems to me that 40% (possibly more) of the world views things very similarly to the MRM….just not all of them are aware of the MRM. I guarantee you if I were given 5 minutes in any random public place, I could find a majority of people who agree with the MRM. In fact I’m usually shocked to find people who actually agree with feminism.

      If you seriously identify with the hate movement known as feminism, go get some help….for real.

    • FireBits

      Well.. if we were indeed pathetic, why all the uproar? If we were pathetic, no one would care. But it seems that people really care and hate that we talk about issues of boys and men. This is like being a black person in 1920s.

  • sarahgray
  • David

    Maybe if feminists were really about equality, this conference wouldnt be necessary. Today’s feminists are mainly far-left wackos spewing nonsense about “rape culture” and “male privilege” and blaming men for everything. Feminism is about keeping women in perpetual victimhood. Meanwhile issues that impact men aren’t allowed to be discussed in any shape or form.
    This is why so few Americans consider themselves “feminist.” It’s now become a radical movement that has is totally about women’s advocacy under the illusion of equality.

  • Jennifer

    Paul Elam’s Youtube name is – The happy Misogynist

    Here – youtube. com/user/TheHappyMisogynist

    • Mike Hunt

      Even his youtube name is satirical, but feminists just aren’t smart enough to understand that.

  • http://www.StudioBrule.com Steve Brulé

    Every time they stomp on the right of men to gather, they prove that the Men’s Rights Movement is very important. Every generation has bigots looking for a culturally acceptable target to vent their hatred. Men are today’s only culturally sanctioned target for hate and discrimination.

    • Jennifer

      Paul Elam’s Youtube name is – The happy Misogynist.

      Here – youtube. com/user/TheHappyMisogynist

      • Attila_L_Vinczer

        I have seen you promote this twice now. The intended purpose of the name is working, but not for the reason you site darling. Thank you for your promotional contribution to the MRM.

        • Darth Jader

          *cite

          • Attila_L_Vinczer

            sight site cite, got it.

          • Darth Jader

            :p You’re welcome ;)

    • Darth Jader

      *white* men.

  • Fraga123

    We must not allow men to have rights.
    What is next? Divorced fathers spending time with their kids? Male victims of domestic violence being given shelter? Outrageous!
    Insanity – these maniacs must be stopped at all costs.

    • G&PT

      Yes, but allowing divorced fathers to spend time with their kids when the mother doesn’t want that hurts the mother, and is therefore misogynistic. Sheltering male victims of domestic violence diverts funds from shelters for female domestic violence, hurting women. More misogyny. It doesn’t matter if it’s state funding or personal funding. You donate £10 to a woman’s DV shelter and £10 to a men’s DV shelter when you could donate £20 to a woman’s DV shelter, WHY DO YOU HATE WOMEN SO MUCH!!!! The above is what I’d say/scream if I was an insane, brainwashed feminist (a sensible feminist would see it as just as stupid as anyone else).

  • ralf

    This is disgusting:
    Defending a movement that tries to silence human rights advocates with
    dead threads against guest and employees of the Hilton Hotel and than
    calling a movement that has never done anything bad a hate group is
    really the pinnacle of hypocrisy and bigotry.

  • ralf

    spreading lies. great journalism.

    “It should be mentioned that the SPLC did not label MRAs as members of a hate movement” – Arthur Goldwag

    The SPLC that was dumped by the FBI as an untrustworthy source for being too politically biased.

    • http://www.motorcitymuckraker.com/ muckraker_abby

      That assertion is never made in the story.

      • Stephen Jones

        Unless I’m quite mistaken, that assertion was included in the article as it was originally posted.
        However, as soon as the error was pointed out, the article was corrected.

        To me, that is a fine example of journalistic integrity.

      • ralf

        It is mentioned in the 7th paragraph in the article in a way that implies that the SPLC is any authority in that matter.
        You can call it misleading if you want to be kind, but its effect on the readers here as – I can see from their comments – is nothing short of lying.

  • z–man

    Who are these dopes??

    • Stephen Jones

      I’m going to go ahead and cut and paste a comment I made earlier that should clarify who us “dopes” are:

      I am… really, I am!
      But because of my association with the MRM, I meet with huge opposition. And when people try to silence my voice because of that association, they are silencing a voice *opposed* to traditionalism.
      I’m not alone, there are a lot… and I mean A LOT of men’s rights advocates who share my mindset.
      It’s like this:
      people of my generation were raised in a Marlo Thomas ‘Free to Be, You and Me” environment.
      We rejected societally enforced gender roles, we rejected traditionalism. And we embraced the women’s rights movement and feminism.
      We believe feminism was a safe place to escape traditionalism. But when some of us started facing hardships, and we thought the feminist space was somewhere we could discuss our hardships, we were told there was no room for issues facing men and boys within a feminist space… sometimes even telling us that by bringing those issues forward we were “oppressing women” or “silencing womens voices”.

      We were told that as men, we had the whole world outside of feminism to discuss our issues.
      … but that world is the traditionalism we had already rejected. We had been there, and we knew that was not a place open to our ideas.
      So, we set to creating our own space.
      But right away, feminism rallies to oppose that, to categorize it as misogynist and hateful… maybe even dangerous.

      Now, taking all of that into account, is it any wonder when some of those men become anti-feminist?

      For the record, I’m not one of those. I refuse to engage in blanket anti-feminism, I know too many lovely, equity minded men and women who self identify as feminist for that.

      • z–man

        Interesting. So, what does one do when one rejects traditionalism, but then in turn is rejected by the feminists?

        • Stephen Jones

          I just explained exactly that. Re-read.

          • z–man

            Soooo…..I think I understand. You kinda go back to “traditionalism”…….but not really. It only looks that way (to some). And instead of the feminists simply treating you as supporters of their movement who should just keep quiet, now they hate you and call you a bunch of misogynist Nazis for openly raising a different viewpoint.

            It’s a bit ironic, really…..I am a supporter of women’s causes, but they don’t always welcome the support of men. I’m not sure what drives that. Maybe it’s threatening to them somehow.

          • Stephen Jones

            I too have always supported women’s causes… not blindly, of course but there’s no denying that women face issues in society that men typically do not.
            However there is quite a bit of denying that men face issues that women typically do not.

          • z–man

            I’d have to agree with you on that.

          • Mike Hunt

            Holy crap! An initially hostile commenter when provided with a few facts changes his mind. Will wonders never cease?

            Sad that encountering a reasonable person should be so exciting.

          • z–man

            It happens from time to time.

  • Betty P Wiggins

    Still waiting for MRAs to protest their Fuhrer Paul Elam’s violent remarks and encouragement of rape:

    “I have ideas about women who spend evenings in bars hustling men for drinks, playing on their sexual desires … And the women who drink and make out, doing everything short of sex with men all evening, and then go to his apartment at 2:00 a.m.. Sometimes both of these women end up being the “victims” of rape.

    But are these women asking to get raped?

    In the most severe and emphatic terms possible the answer is NO, THEY ARE NOT ASKING TO GET RAPED.

    They are freaking begging for it.

    Damn near demanding it.

    And all the outraged PC demands to get huffy and point out how nothing justifies or excuses rape won’t change the fact that there are a lot of women who get pummeled and pumped because they are stupid (and often arrogant) enough to walk though life with the equivalent of a I’M A STUPID, CONNIVING BITCH – PLEASE RAPE ME neon sign glowing above their empty little narcissistic heads.”

    http://web.archive.org/web/20111103174336/http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/false-rape-culture/challenging-the-etiology-of-rape/

    “And the answer is, of course, no, I am not going to stop. You see, I find you, as a feminist, to be a loathsome, vile piece of human garbage. I find you so pernicious and repugnant that the idea of fucking your shit up gives me an erection.”

    http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/activism/the-fembots-are-already-bent-out-of-shape/

    “I am a pacifist. I do not advocate violence. But I tell you this. The day I see one of these absolutely incredulous excuses for a judge dragged out of his courtroom into the street, beaten mercilessly, doused with gasoline and set afire by a father who just won’t take another moment of injustice, I will be the first to put on the pages of this website that what happened was a minor tragedy that pales by far in comparison to the systematic brutality and thuggery inflicted daily on American fathers by those courts and their police henchmen.

    It would not even so much be a tragedy as the chickens coming home to roost.”

    http://www.avoiceformen.com/men/fathers/the-family-courts-have-to-go-and-i-mean-right-fucking-now/

    • Stephen Jones

      I had opposed Elam on that very article, as did many others.
      And, no, I wasn’t banned for challenging Paul Elam, in fact they have since re-published a couple of my articles on the main site.

    • Guest

      Lol, I see you cut out the parts where he said these pieces were illustrative satire. Nice try.

    • Mike Hunt

      Yawn. Back to this again? Pretending you don’t know it’s satire.

    • Darth Jader

      aaaaaannnnnnnnddddddd….that is encouraging rape….HOW???????

      Seems to me it’s more like he’s criticizing bad behaviour.

  • Jade Davis

    This article is pure bullshit. The conference was moved to one of the VFW posts in Detroit because they had twice the expected number of attendees, and, needed a larger facility.

    • Peter Wright

      That’s right, Jade. Surprising the way the author above tried to spin it in the face of the evidence. It was no secret that the guest-list for the conference has balooned due to the coverage. People of Detroit really want to listen and talk about this subject.

  • muckraker_steve
  • Sam Gompers

    The most intolerant and hate filled people are always the Marxist Left.

  • Jeff

    I lost all respect for feminists back in the 90s when they failed to support the women Bill Clinton was raping and groping. That pretty much told me that movement is just like every other political group…a bunch of hypocrites that put allegiance to a political party above their own principles. And now they are going to support the Clintons again in 2016?
    Any boss or manager or CEO in this nation that did what Bill Clinton did would be fired on the spot. Yet feminists supported Bill. Why?

    • Darth Jader

      uhhh….he didn’t rape or grope anyone….IMO he’s da boss for getting fellated on the job…..Kudos to him for it….I don’t get why feminists supported him….they’ve always been in favour of oppression….

  • Masta solanas

    “It’s questionable whether this conversation ever occurred because the general manager is a woman.”

    Not sure why gender is relevant in this matter. Feminists threatened female MRAs with violence and death, and looking at the crowd of protestors, you can definitely see a lot of frail pale beta male feminists who are willing to commit proxy violence for their female masters.

    On a related note, even wonder why so many women compared to men are killed in domestic violence related incidents? One reason is that women who wish to kill their male spouse or ex-spouse will convince another male (lover, new spouse, family member, friend) to do the killing – proxy killing.

    • Auntie Alias

      “Feminists threatened female MRAs with violence and death”

      That’s a lie.

      • driversuz

        Not according to Hilton.

        • Auntie Alias

          A fake letter isn’t proof. The Hilton has refused to acknowledge threats or elaborate.

          • driversuz

            The Hilton has refused to elaborate but the Hilton filed police reports. How is that not acknowledgement?

          • Stephen Jones

            Alias, you know full well that the Hilton filed an official report with the Detroit police, you acknowledged that last night.

            You even said yourself that there was a threat of violence made, you only speculate as to whether or not they specifically threatened death or just violence in general.

            How do you think people aren’t going to notice these things?

          • Stephen Jones

            For reference:

            Auntie Alias Incubus • 10 hours ago

            AFAIK, the police confirmed threats, not death threats.

          • sarahgray

            The hotel has not acknowledged this.

          • Stephen Jones

            But the police have. We’re past that already.

          • Mike Hunt

            Even David Futrelle has acknowledged the threats were real. Give it up already.

          • Darth Jader

            yet the police have verified the validity….that in conjunction with the letter is pretty conclusive.

      • Masta solanas
        • Auntie Alias

          That’s a threat all right but it’s not the threat described in the fake letter from Doubletree.

          • Darth Jader

            how is that letter fake? Police have verified the legitimacy of the threats.

      • Darth Jader

        So…Erin Pizzey has never received death threats from feminists? Just one of the most well known examples. STFU, you are a retard.

        • Auntie Alias

          Is Erin Pizzey an MRA?

          Knock off the ableist name-calling.

          • Darth Jader

            entirely irrelevant, she pointed out that women perpetuate DV, and received death threats (from feminists) as a result. Even though she is the one who started the first women’s shelter and theoretically should be revered by feminists out there, but the moment she points out the reality of the situation, and feminists feed her to the wolves.

            Just goes to show the hatred and bias involved with the feminist movement, and further illustrates the hate movement that feminism is.

            Again: STFU, you are a retard.

          • Darth Jader

            If you want an example of a female MRA who’s received death threats, look no further than Karen Straughan.

  • jerry557

    There is a female senator from Canada speaking at this conference… along with a psychologist talking about domestic abuse, a lawyer talking about inequality in family law, etc, etc.. I don’t see any extremists on the speaker lists. Why are feminists so butthurt over this? Because it’s not 100% about women’s issues or is it because the speakers aren’t making women to be the victims for once? If feminism is about equality, aren’t these issues that men want to raise have any relevance at all? Or do feminists only care about having equality only in specific areas that women find problematic?

    • Auntie Alias

      The main topic is misogyny. That’s why feminists are in an uproar.

      • Stephen Jones

        The main topics include homelessness, mental health, education, suicide, parental alienation… Nowhere on the schedule can “misogyny” be found.
        And I’m damn sure the women involved would have something to say if it was.
        Instead of telling us what we’re about, why don’t you try asking us…. or are you afraid you might learn a thing?

        • Auntie Alias

          I’m familiar with how those topics are addressed; they are always the fault of women and/or feminists.

          Take Stefan Molyneux, for example. He blames all the evil in the world on women who have sex with “assholes”. Any evil committed by the children of those unions is the fault of the mother for picking the wrong guy to have sex with. Thus, evil men are blameless when they commit evil acts.

          Warren Farrell in The Myth of Male Power

          We have forgotten that before we began calling this date rape and date fraud, we called it exciting.

          It is important that a woman’s “noes” be respected and her “yeses” be respected. And it is also important when her nonverbal “yeses” (tongues still touching) conflict with those verbal “noes” that the man not be put in jail for choosing the “yes” over the “no.” He might just be trying to become her fantasy.

          Erin Pizzey

          I remember I was working with Anne [Cools] in the Senate and I walked in to the lift, and this man who was in the lift with me was cowering over in the corner. And I came out and I said to Anne, “What on earth was that about?” And she said, “Men are frightened. They just don’t know when they’re going to be told they’re sexually harassing somebody.”

          http://gww.quartz.net.nz/2013/03/04/refuting-40-years-of-lies-about-domestic-violence/

          Demonizing women in this way and excusing/encouraging rape is misogyny.

          • Stephen Jones

            You’re just re framing everything to suit your ideology. I’m not asking you what we’re talking about, I’m telling you.

            You can pull the wool over the eyes of the uninformed, but it’s not going to work with me.

          • RubberPunch

            There is nothing misogynistic about being non-feminist or anti-feminist for that matter.

            Warren Farrell also said that

            I think the most important single change we can make is re-socializing
            women into initiating sexually. To take responsibility for saying what
            they do want, not just what they don’t want.

            Simultaneously I think we
            need to re-socialize men to pay attention to women’s noes, and make a
            woman who doesn’t mean her no, live with the consequences of not being
            able to enjoy sexual contact.

            http://youtu.be/ZF1GpOsVgVM?t=2h59m20s

          • Darth Jader

            Again: you are a retard.

      • Mike Hunt

        No. Feminists are in an uproar because they are insane, angry man-haters.

        • Attila_L_Vinczer

          And they are being exposed for what they are, not just what they say they are. This makes feminist frustrated and angry.

      • Darth Jader

        again: You are a retard.

    • Stephen Jones

      5 out of the original 12 speakers were female. At least 2 were gay or bisexual. Several racial backgrounds were represented.
      It’s a pretty diverse group. Pretty welcoming to persons of any gender, race, religion, orientation, and political beliefs.
      But, they are talking about gender issue on their own terms, outside the feminist tent. And many of the gender ideologues in the feminist camp believe that they, and they alone OWN those topics.
      And that’s why they call us misogynists, they can’t handle anyone talking about issues that they have claimed as their own.

    • Stephen Jones

      5 out of the original 12 speakers were female. At least 2 were gay or bisexual. Several racial backgrounds were represented.
      It’s a pretty diverse group. Pretty welcoming to persons of any gender, race, religion, orientation, and political beliefs.
      But, they are talking about gender issue on their own terms, outside the feminist tent. And many of the gender ideologues in the feminist camp believe that they, and they alone OWN those topics.
      And that’s why they call us misogynists, they can’t handle anyone talking about issues that they have claimed as their own.

    • napocapo69

      But ladies and gentlemen.
      Do you realize that many here are justifying the legitimacy of the conference on the basis of the share of females attending or having a speech?
      This is basically the main reason while the men’s right movement MUST exists.
      Culturally we have embedded so deeply the suspect on male identity that the only way we allow males to have a word is when there is a fair share of “females”.
      Do you realize this is insane?

      • Stephen Jones

        It’s not about “Men vs. Women”
        It’s about equality and fair treatment. Any gender can have a reasonable opinion about those topics.

  • Michael Gray

    So, with the SPLC, it has silently morphed from a “Hate Group”, to a “Troublesome Group”?
    I am glad for one that that lie has been at least partially exposed.

    Source, please?

    • Stephen Jones

      The claim that AVfM is a hate group appeared in a rant left by an anonymous online contributor posted to the SPLC’s website.
      The SPLC later clarified that they do not consider AVfM to be a hate group.

      I don’t have a direct link, but that disclaimer can be found on the SPLC website.

  • Teflon Expat

    The feminists got a load of really bad PR as the public believes they threatened the hotel. How can they fix this problem that has firmly tanked their credibility?

  • http://www.mancheeze.wordpress.com Joy

    So the MRA’s posted a photo of me and well, I’m not surprised. They rile themselves up into a rage and pick on the nearest female target. Thank you for removing the picture. It was an attempt to get people to see my face here where the misogynists are in full force. They know they have people with criminal records lurking amongst them and well, they wish for harm on people. Hence the constant doxxing of women.

    • Teflon Expat

      No, don’t be so self congratulatory. Its late and we all need a little entertainment. Someone posted a link here that led to the photo. Who was that?

    • Stephen Jones

      Remember that scene in The Breakfast Club where Ally Sheedy’s character dumps her purse out on the desk and then gets upset when the others make remarks about it?
      You left the link to that photo here, with no encouragement from anyone.

      • Teflon Expat

        Its hard to remember such things when blind with rage and your busy wiping spittle off the screen

    • Mike Hunt

      A happy, grinning ragw! :-) :-) :-)

    • Teflon Expat
    • http://www.avoiceformen.com TheBibo Sez

      The picture is still there, although it was hard to recognize you with your clothes on.

    • EqualityEd

      So you come out hating a group of men fighting for men and boys but the issue is some how about you and your picture? These men aren’t there to hate women but you clearly have a problem with men caring about someone other than women.

      The hate is coming feminist who can’t take any form of criticism, demand control of the gender dialog so they may can marginalize men’s issues, and a endless smear campaigns against Men’s Activist that effectively oppresses those who make men and boys issues a priority.

      Social justice is not a tool for feminist to oppress people who disagree with them and you really need to knock it off. I’ve never been so disgusted by the left in my life and I’m fed up with your bullying. That includes the phony victim routine that makes everything about you instead of the issues.

      • http://www.mancheeze.wordpress.com Joy

        No dudebro, the issue ISN’T my picture and yet it was posted by one of you idiots.

        Cuz posting a picture of me and adhom is totes criticizing the many quotes I put up by your conference speakers.

        Go faint over my picture on my blog instead of putting it here. You do no favours to yourselves. You just dig a bigger hole than the one you crawled out of but I think some of you know that and just need a reason to act like the whole world is oppressing you.

        • Stephen Jones

          You posted the link on your own accord.
          Someone posted the photo to the comments… which was cheeky, and not a choice I would have made, but you didn’t like it, so it was removed.

          What’s the problem?

        • Mike Hunt

          Upvoted for hilarity.

          • Attila_L_Vinczer

            Notice Auntie Alias and Joy never comment at or near the same time. Hmmm.

          • Mike Hunt

            I’m not sure they are the same. Auntie Alias for all her feigned idiocy seems a tad more articulate.

            I personally believe Auntie Alias is David Fatrelle.

          • Attila_L_Vinczer

            Then David might just be Diana. lol

            Either way, they must be ashamed to show their face and cowards to hide behind an alias.

            Truly, neither are of any merit or worth and pose no meaningful contention, one way or another.

          • Mike Hunt

            Nope. Diana is her own kind of special. She’s a crazy mouse lady and she lives in Vancouver. Definitely not David.

            David is actually pretty smart, he plays his audience for fools, which they are. I don’t think he believes even half the crap he does.

            Diana on the other hand, while clearly a huge fan of David, firmly believes every word that comes out of her mouth. She’s unstable and probably dangerous.

    • driversuz

      Bahahaha! You post three (or was it four?) links to that picture right here but you grab your smelling salts and dive for the fainting couch when someone calls your bluff and give you the very publicity you were trying to give yourself.

      If you don’t want those “people with criminal records…” seeing your picture, why did you “doxx” yourself?

      How very pathetic.

    • Attila_L_Vinczer

      Cry me a river Diana Boston a full blown misandrist and an androphobe. You want in the spotlight, but don’t want the light to strike your face. You see you can not suck and blow at the same time sweetie pie.

    • Darth Jader

      I think it’s safe to say there are FAR more people with criminal records who support feminism….most of which have VIOLENT criminal records.

      Your pic was posted to show people what a feminist looks like. It was a matter of exposing you for the violence promoting extremist that you are, not to promote violence against you.

  • Mike Hunt

    Wow, this comments section kind of got awesome while I was away drinking wine and cooking for two lovely ladies.

    • Teflon Expat

      The big celebration is about how it all went from the petition to threat to feminist phobia at the hotel. Meaning, the public now sees feminists as angry dangerous bullies and the MRAs as professional and well-meaning innocents. That is, it couldn’t be better.

      • Mike Hunt

        I’m drunk. Please don’t rape me.

        • EqualityEd

          When I see mockery like that you know the people are more interested in scoring cool points than caring people. We’re dealing with human rights issues not your desire to fit in.

          • Mike Hunt

            In actually drunk dude. Really drink. Chin out dude.

    • http://www.mancheeze.wordpress.com Joy

      Your two dogs i assume?

      • Teflon Expat

        Wow Mike, maybe you want to bring the dogs over to the computer so they can see what the feminist spew really looks like

      • Mike Hunt

        Why are you so misogynistic towards women?

        Butthurt mouse lover is hilarious

        • Teflon Expat

          There are non feminist women and thus not fully actualized and complete

      • Stephen Jones

        I haven’t heard anyone refer to women as dogs in… must be twenty years now.
        Catch up, Joy, the world has changed. We don’t talk about women that way anymore.

        • Teflon Expat

          Not even feminists are referred to in that manner

          • Stephen Jones

            Seriously, not even on AVfM forums.
            I clearly remember the last time I heard someone refer to a woman as a dog… it was prior to 1992… and it wasn’t funny then either.

          • Teflon Expat

            These so-called anti MRA’s have issues that transcend their relentless droning. Something in their past, some bugaboo. They are a seriously deranged breed of feminism. Even the top queens like Marcotte and Valenti haven’t touched the Detroit hotel topic. That has to tell you something. They are keeping their distance from those who can bring damage to an already weak ‘movement’

          • driversuz

            *BINGO*
            They rely on the crackpots like Futrelle and Joy here, to keep the slime oozing, while they manage to keep their dainty fingers somewhat clean.

        • driversuz

          Feminists do. Feminists utterly despise women.

  • Guest

    So many fedoras lurking in the comments section.

    • Teflon Expat

      There are some real pin up girls just below for your viewing pleasure

    • Masta solanas

      Isn’t it…I don’t know…kind of petulant to shame geeky portly males with no fashion sense?

      • Teflon Expat

        Then they sound rather harmless. Why all the seething fear of them? Makes no sense

        • Masta solanas

          How did MRAs become associated with the neckbeard fedora wearing atheist image in the first place I wonder?

          My first impression of some fat unkempt guy who wears a fedora or trilby would be that they probably lean left politically, and have probably embraced feminism as a result.

          Fat guys tend to be huge chivalrous white knights, and consider themselves nice guys despite being constantly friend zoned. I’ve met many fat male feminists who believe standing up for feminism is standing up for women in an attempt to win women over romantically. Feminism embraces fat acceptance, poor fashion choice and style such as short hair for women or seeing Hillary Clinton’s shabby utilitarian attire as Haute couture.

          Fedoras are pretentious and retro, and feminists are notorious for pretentious physical attributes and retro fashion such as gawky piercings, colored hair, short hair, punk-esque clothing, Rosie the Riveter bandanas, or tattoos.

          The caricature of feminists is a fat hairy lesbian with short hair, hairy legs, and armpits. Perhaps this is an attempt by feminists to make a negative caricature of MRAs?

          • Teflon Expat

            Oh Feminists know MRAs are harmless. They get into a lather about them because they question feminism without fear and not as individuals who are easy to attack, but as a group.

        • EqualityEd

          Seething fear is a act put on by bullies who don’t know how to deal with dissenting opinions. There are people who think men’s issues matter and male victims deserve equal attention. These people have a problem with that and have gone mad with hate as a result.

    • Dennis Markham

      Better fedoras than tiaras.

    • Mike Hunt

      Fedoras are nice, but they’ve got nothing on bunnets.

    • EqualityEd

      You mean so many human beings who have watched for decades as the issues of men and boys have been marginalized? You mean the kind of people who are justifiably angry when male victims of sexual and domestic violence are ignored because some think only women deserve that kind of compassion?

      MRA’s are not a hat or whatever little childish stereotype you’ve worked up in your head. These school yard bullying games show exactly the sort of people you are; the sort devoid of compassion.

  • Teflon Expat
    • Incubus

      Wait, you didn’t tell us who the last one was yet.

      • Teflon Expat

        Jessica Valenti

        • Incubus

          Damn! I was thinking it was her, but then I was like “Naw it’s probably Auntie Alias!” so I didn’t vote.

          • Teflon Expat

            The one above is the most infamous miso flinger

          • Incubus

            I never heard of her.

          • Teflon Expat

            Amanda Marcotte

          • Incubus

            Oh, her.

    • Stephen Jones

      She’s got Gary Buseys jawline

      • http://www.motorcitymuckraker.com/ muckraker_abby

        No personal attacks, dude. Come on. We don’t want to have to ban you.

        • Stephen Jones

          Sorry, that was not intended as a personal attack. It was in reference to a photo that has since been removed, the photo depicted someone who is not involved in this discussion.
          It was not intended as an insult, I’m sure if you had seen the photo, you would agree that she does in fact resemble Gary Busey just like my niece looks like my brother-in-law.

          I am however appreciative that you are attempting to keep this forum civil, and I recognize that it can often be a thankless task.
          But not this time… I’m saying “Thank you”

          • http://www.motorcitymuckraker.com/ muckraker_abby

            Thanks. Much appreciated. I think that everyone here is capable of making a cogent argument without resorting to mocking someone (who may or may not be present).

          • Stephen Jones

            Well, I was impressed with your attempt to moderate the discussion… when I thought it was sincere.
            It seems as though it was just abandoned after these warnings appeared.
            Just a heads up, permitting a user to call random people “faggot” and “bitch” repeatedly over five days would fall into the “personal attack” category.
            Saying someone resembles a celebrity… not so much.

            In fact, I stand by my original statement. I don’t know who that woman is, or what she stands for; I have no reason to attack her as a person,
            but she does have a similar jawline to Gary Busey, and I challenge anyone to say different.

    • Masta solanas

      Looks like a man with a wig.

      • Teflon Expat

        oooh

    • muckraker_steve

      Teflon, please refrain from making personal insults or we will have to prevent you from posting again. Thank you.

      • Stephen Jones

        Please heed that advice, Teflon… I believe you’ve got a lot of valuable input into this debate, I’d hate to see you silenced just for the sake of some petty insults.

  • Teflon Expat

    http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61QTiDl8xIL.jpg

    Belching on you loser misogynists!

    • Auntie Alias

      Are you 12 years old?

      • Mike Hunt

        :-)

    • Teflon Expat

      Guess who it is

  • Teflon Expat
    • driversuz

      Aw man! I was already feeling queasy! Thanks a lot!

    • Auntie Alias

      Oh look! It’s Mike Hunt.

      • driversuz

        You can claim it if you want but, ew.

      • Mike Hunt

        Your cunt is an unatractive redhead? Why am I not surprised. ;-)

  • Teflon Expat

    [IMG]http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j470/GirlonFilm1969/Blog%20Pictures/diana400by240artistphotocopy.png[/IMG]
    Hi Misogynists. Welcome to the dungeon.

    • Auntie Alias

      Nice display of terrorist tactics.

      • Stephen Jones

        Why, who is that? She looks like an MRA, but I’m not sure

        • Teflon Expat

          Future recruit

          • Stephen Jones

            Seriously, she did a youtube video not long ago, am I right?

          • driversuz

            Are you kidding? We should be paying her for all the new members and donors she has already sent our way!

          • Stephen Jones

            (Shhhh! She might catch on!)

        • driversuz

          That’s our Joy. The picture is on the front page of her blog – the one she linked in this very comment thread.

          • Stephen Jones

            Oh, my mistake.
            I’d hardly call sharing a picture that has already been shared to this very audience is “terrorist”
            Death threats against hotel employees and a Canadian Senator, that’s terroristic, no question about it, but this… not really the same thing, is it?

          • driversuz

            It is to Auntie Alias, because penis.

          • Stephen Jones

            Well, Auntie Alias clearly has too much time on her hands

      • driversuz

        What, the picture Joy displays on the blog she linked right here?

        • Auntie Alias

          Don’t drag it here.

          • Teflon Expat

            Drag. the most appropriate word

          • driversuz

            Gosh, do you think she doesn’t want anyone to know what she looks like? You know, if I didn’t want anyone to know what I look like, I wouldn’t post my picture with my name on the internet.

          • Auntie Alias

            Don’t play dumb. This is a poorly disguised way of saying, “This is what Joy looks like. Feel free to find her and cause her harm.”

          • Incubus

            You read too much into these things. People online do sometimes do those things, but not to people who already display their info publicly. There would be no point in that.

          • Auntie Alias

            Given AVFM’s track record for doxxing, harassment, and intimidation, I don’t buy that for a second.

          • Incubus

            Bringing attention to people’s terror tactics is not doxing. Tell it to Homeland Security.

          • driversuz

            Thank you for bringing up “doxxing” and “harassment.” Publicizing already-public and readily available information is not doxxing, and criticism of public-by-choice figures, is not harassment.

            By suggesting otherwise, especially on behalf of feminist women, you are perpetuating the feminist myth that women are perpetually helpless victims of circumstance who utterly lack agency.

            Some of us don’t believe that crap; we actually respect women.

          • Stephen Jones

            Well said, Suz, well said.

          • Teflon Expat

            Set the record straight. Most of spews from lip flapping feminists is myth.

          • Auntie Alias

            Bull! AVFM posted Emma Howland-Bolton’s email address. That’s doxxing and the purpose was to invite people to harass her. That’s one of many examples.

          • Incubus

            She posted it publicly. It’s not doxing. And they COULD HAVE (and in my opinion, should have) posted her professional e-mail address with the Detroit school system too. She was engaging in terror tactics, and she’s trusted by our society to teach children. People should be made aware of what she’s doing. It isn’t cyber bullying, and it isn’t violating her privacy. It’s being a responsible citizen.

          • Auntie Alias

            For gawd’s sake. She was not engaging in terrorist tactics.

          • Incubus

            She organized death threats. That, by definition, is a terror tactic. And even if you want to argue she didn’t do that and the FB screenshots are just coincidence, she was still active on the page which organized them. Calling public attention to her activities is the right thing to do.

          • Auntie Alias

            OMG. You’ve lost it now.

          • Incubus

            No, I’ve held women to the same standard as men, and apparently, YOU’VE lost it. umad?

          • Auntie Alias

            WTF is this? “She organized death threats.” There is zero evidence that she posted or organized any threats let alone death threats. That certainly isn’t supported by the FB screenshots.

          • Incubus

            She was seen asking for actors for something that could be done from anywhere shortly before the hotel started receiving threatening phone calls. And like I and Suz said, even if you want to argue that that was just a coincidence, she still started the page where threats by other people were made, and she did nothing to moderate them or instruct those users not to do that.

          • Auntie Alias

            Actors are actors. They aren’t murderers for hire. It was for the protest which was peaceful.

            Yes, some guy made a stupid comment about feeling trigger-happy. I heard his comments were removed but can’t confirm that.

            You claimed Emma organized death threats without a shred of evidence. Sounds libelous to me.

          • Teflon Expat

            So sue

          • Incubus

            Why would she be hiring actors for the protest? Since when do protests, and having actors put on performances isn’t a common theme. I’ve been to quite a few protests, and I’ve never seen it happen. It certainly looks like she organized it, and if she didn’t, at the very least, she did nothing to police it.

          • Auntie Alias

            NOTHING HAPPENED AT THE PROTEST. Except for a couple misogynists who followed protesters to their cars and took pictures of their license plates to intimidate them. Terrorists.

          • Teflon Expat

            About 40 people making fools of themselves clearly happened

          • Stephen Jones

            Oh stop throwing the word ‘Terrorist’ around like it’s meaningless.
            We can all see that you’re just saying that to get a rise out of people.

          • Auntie Alias

            A group that routinely employes methods to terrorize people are terrorists.

          • Incubus

            Agreed. And your group is the only one here that’s done that.

          • Stephen Jones

            Yes, but equating sharing an already public photo with terrorism is… questionable.

          • driversuz

            It’s flat out ludicrous, just like most of what AA says.

          • Auntie Alias

            It’s a well-established pattern. In fact, it’s almost the only form of “activism” that AVFM engages in.

          • Stephen Jones

            Just because you’re not paying attention doesn’t mean AVfM is doing anything

          • Teflon Expat

            AVfM is under every rock. Around all the corners. Flying in on the backs of flys. Omnipresent they are.

          • Auntie Alias

            I pay close attention.

          • Teflon Expat

            Noooooo! really? Every consider some therapy you freak

          • Stephen Jones

            You either don’t pay as close attention as you think, or you’re being dishonest.
            It’s one or the other.

          • driversuz

            Yes. Feminists do that rather often, don’t they? You’re a feminist, right?

          • Incubus

            Nothing happened at the protest, but people clearly called in with death threats. What I’m saying is it certainly looks like she got actors to pose as terrorists and make threatening calls to the hotel. And even if you want to dispute that, she still did nothing to police the threats that were posted there. They were up for days, and there’s no indication that she’s the one who deleted them, or that she gave any statement to people not to do that anymore. She certainly didn’t issue a public statement about it.

          • driversuz

            Yeah I heard that rumor. Does anybody have any evidence that it happened?

          • driversuz

            Then again, maybe she needed to “hire” protesters….

          • driversuz

            You clutch those pearls any tighter, they’ll leave marks on your neck.

          • driversuz

            She STARTED the page which included the threats and she didn’t ban or even criticize those making threats. Again I thank you for bringing this out in the light.

          • driversuz

            A commenter posted the email address that was so readily available that it could be found on Google in less than thirty seconds. AVfM promptly deleted that comment anyway. Thank you for bringing it to a wider audience.

          • Auntie Alias

            The email address was in the body of the article.

          • driversuz

            If so it was public information, most likely made public by her.

          • Auntie Alias

            You people are terrorists.

          • driversuz

            No that would be feminists. You’re a feminist, right?

          • Incubus

            Even if you believed what you say, it still wouldn’t make any sense to call someone a terrorist for doxing, but not for making death threats. Your whole argument is ridiculous.

          • Auntie Alias

            No identifiable person made death threats. I doubt there were any at all.

          • Incubus

            Apparently, the police have confirmed that there were. And your grounds for questioning the letter’s authenticity are questionable, at best.

          • Auntie Alias

            AFAIK, the police confirmed threats, not death threats.

          • Teflon Expat
          • Stephen Jones

            You realize that the way you’ve been expressing yourself does make it sound like you are a terrorist apologist, don’t you?
            I’m not saying you are… just that that is how it comes across.

          • Auntie Alias

            I condemn all violence and threats of violence. If there were threats, the culprit(s) deserve to be prosecuted regardless of who they are.

            My issue is with AVFM’s tendency to exaggerate and distort reality.

          • Stephen Jones

            I’m sorry, but that’s really not how you are coming across.
            “My issue is with AVFM’s tendency to exaggerate and distort reality.”
            That sounds downright reasonable, like you are someone who could engage in a civil, reasoned and respectful discourse with.
            But look at every other post you’ve left… You sound like either a troll or a nutjob, sometimes both. And not just here, I’ve seen your posts for a couple of years now.
            This is the very first time I’ve seen you post anything that makes me think I could reach out and maybe, just maybe we could try to build a bridge instead of throwing up more walls

          • Auntie Alias

            I’m not sure how you could have seen me posting for a couple of years. I first signed up for Disqus a little over a year ago, I think, and switched to this user name a few months ago.

            “My issue is with AVFM’s tendency to exaggerate and distort reality.”

            This I meant in the context of “threats, not death threats” although it’s certainly applicable across the board. It’s not the only issue I have with AVFM and it pales in comparison to their promotion of violent misogyny. Given that, I don’t imagine we’ll find any common ground.

          • Stephen Jones

            If you don’t want to find common ground, I can guarantee that we will not.
            I have not seen “violent misogyny” on AVfM. In fact, if you were to sign up and post a message that so much as implies violence, you will be banned immediately.
            You don’t have to take my word for that, you can try it out for yourself.
            I’m assuming you are referring to AVfM forums, rather than AVfM, however anything condoning violence in any form would not be tolerated on either site.

          • Auntie Alias

            Stephen, I’m always up for a civil conversation but my opinion of AVFM as a promoter of violent misogyny is usually a barrier that can’t be overcome. I was referring to the content published on AVFM, not the comments.

          • Stephen Jones

            You have stated in these comments that “Not all feminists are like that”… and I agree wholeheartedly. I have stated the same thing in these comments, I know too many lovely, wonderful equality minded people who self identify as feminists to even consider a blanket condemnation of all feminists.
            But it’s kind of a double standard to condemn all AVfM members because of the writing of a handful of authors… and let’s be clear about this, we’re really just talking about two articles written by one author almost 2 years ago, one of which was almost word for word satire of an article published on Jezebel with the genders swapped, the other was retracted by the author after pressure from AVfM members like myself.

            By opposing people like myself, you are essentially silencing voices *opposed* to misogynism. We should be allies, you and I.
            We both oppose “those” MRA’s, and We both *should* be opposed to “those” feminists… You so more that I, let’s be honest, “those” feminists aren’t making me look bad.

          • Stephen Jones

            “AFAIK, the police confirmed threats, not death threats.”

            Ok, I’m coming back to this because I realized that although some might call it backpedaling, you are in fact conceding part of your earlier point here.

            Threats of violence were made, but you claim that they were not death threats.
            I havent seen the threat that was sent to the hotel, I’m assuming you have as you seem to have more knowledge about it’s details than I.
            I’ll be able to verify this later, but for the time being, I’m going to assume what you claim is truthful. Benefit of doubt and all that.

            I have, however, seen a different threat that was sent directly to conference organizers via social media (twitter… I can track down a screenshot if you’d like)
            It too was not specifically a death threat, it was a threat of violence employing weapons… they didn’t specify if their intent was to kill us or just wound us.

            The threat that you’ve presumably seen, what was the nature of it, if not a death threat? Was it also open ended, leaving the door open for killing us?
            Did they mention weapons or firearms at all?
            Obviously is wasn’t a threat of economic sanctions, the police are involved and a boycott isn’t criminal, so what was it?

          • Auntie Alias

            I saw the original Facebook screenshots that didn’t contain any threats. Yesterday David Futrelle posted this: “I called the Detroit Police and they confirmed that the Doubletree did indeed report to them that it had received threats.” Yeah, it could mean pretty much anything since it’s not specific.
            http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/06/11/is-a-voice-for-mens-conference-kaput-doubletree-says-they-are-not-booked-with-us/

          • Stephen Jones

            So you don’t actually know… you are accusing an entire group of people of lying because you *think* they *might* be mistaken about one detail.
            In other words, you’re right and others are wrong because it suits your ideology… and it doesn’t even suit it that well, either.
            Your people are still calling for violence, but you’re defending them because the violence they are calling for may or may not be fatal.

            May or may not… I’m quite sure they wouldn’t have threatened to “Beat people to a moderate degree”

            These are people who have made a threat of violence against myself and people I care about.
            Sorry, but I’m not about to give them a pass on that because they arguable may not have had intent to kill.

          • Auntie Alias

            1. There is no proof of any credible threat.
            2. Threats confirmed by the Detroit PD haven’t been attributed to any individual or group. You can’t claim threats were made by feminists.
            3. Nowhere did I defend threats. Violence and threats of violence are always wrong.

          • Stephen Jones

            1. You’ve already admitted you have no inside knowledge of this. Unless you were told that by a representative of the Detroit Police Department, you are speculating.
            2. It’s a reasonable assumption. It’s no where near the level of speculation you’ve engaged in… not even close.
            3. No, you did not defend threats. But you have made excuses for the people making those threats. That’s what the word ‘apologetics’ means.

          • Stephen Jones

            You’ve misread. I was referring to screenshots of different threats, made directly to organizers rather than the hotel.

          • Incubus

            Now you’re just splitting hairs.

          • driversuz

            You should be telling that to Hilton.

          • Teflon Expat

            Why is that matter such an extreme obsession?

          • Auntie Alias

            Because I’m sick of AVFM’s lies and want to see this one exposed.

          • Teflon Expat

            Why this one above all others claimed to be lies? This one is widely discussed, pssst pssst hey, did you get any dirt on that letter. Yo, whats the latest, I can’t sleep. Like what the F is up with this? You’re all looking sort of creepy now

          • Auntie Alias

            They have succeeded in getting a lot of publicity for this and if it is exposed as a fraud, it will do a great deal of well-deserved damage to a hate group.

          • Teflon Expat

            Oh so now its admitted they got a lot of publicity. Like where…some local Detroit rags and some backwater TV station? Really, its about that? No no, there is something more to this. What is it?

          • Auntie Alias

            I saw you all patting each other on the back for your brilliant PR strategy.

          • Teflon Expat

            What is the real reason for this obsession?

          • Auntie Alias

            Already asked and answered.

          • Teflon Expat

            Nothing to do with feminist credibility? Death threats to a hotel make them out to be psycho bullies and made the protest come across like sour grapes

          • Auntie Alias

            Feminist credibility didn’t even cross my mind. Even if one extremist ended up doing something bad, it’s not a reflection on feminism as a whole because we don’t incite violence…unlike AFVM. When one of your own commits a violent act, you’re not going to be able to absolve yourselves of moral responsibility.

          • EqualityEd

            Excuse me? Do you have any other absurd accusations to make because I don’t recall talking about things like men’s domestic violence victimization being a terrorist activity.

          • Auntie Alias

            I guess misogynists goes without saying.

          • http://www.motorcitymuckraker.com/ muckraker_abby

            Please refrain from name-calling.

          • Incubus

            I believe what Auntie Alias is referring to is the open letter to Emma Howland-Bolton which avoiceformalestudents published, and which AVFM picked up. I remember that did say “Sent to this e-mail address:” at the top. And yes, it was her public, gmail account, not the one associated with Detroit Public Schools, which, in my opinion, should have been alerted to her behavior.

          • Auntie Alias

            Yes, that’s what I was talking about.

          • Stephen Jones

            She shared that on her own accord. She put it up on her website and then provided the link right here in the comments.
            No one is threatening anyone.

          • Auntie Alias

            She didn’t give permission for it to be posted here.

          • Incubus

            She gave permission for it to be posted in a place where it can easily be posted anywhere else just by linking to that pic. You’d have a hard time even making a copyright infringement case, let alone cyber bullying.

          • Auntie Alias

            No cigar.

          • http://www.mancheeze.wordpress.com Joy

            hey Auntie, who posted my photo? Did they also post my email address?

            They’re intent on going after a woman and well, since I do such a good job of exposing them…

          • Teflon Expat

            More exposure please. Its free and it really works. Go on Auntie, be a stooge. Give it a few minutes as she is raging

          • Auntie Alias

            Teflon Expat posted your photo but I don’t think your email address.

          • Teflon Expat

            You stool pigeon. Ha, you forgot to mention the mailing address.

          • Auntie Alias

            Heehee.

          • Teflon Expat

            Now the wrath of the almighty feminist zeus will rain down for a thousand nights

          • driversuz

            She doesn’t have to. Public information is public information.

          • Stephen Jones

            She posted the link here herself.

          • driversuz

            She posted the link to it here. Duh.

          • driversuz

            Speaking of playing dumb…
            “Oh teh ebil menz are going to come after teh helpless fragile flowerz, cuz Payyytriarchy!”

          • Auntie Alias

            Grow up.

          • driversuz

            Says the person who is infanitlizing a middle aged feminist blogger.

  • saf

    All men must learn to please women. Men must only say what women want to hear, at all times. However true it may be, men can never, ever say anything that makes women uncomfortable. Failing this, they instantly turn into -

    Misogynists!

    And we all know what happens when – “Misogyny”, don’t we?

    • Teflon Expat

      Only if feminists have gotten to the poor girl and filled up her mind with their detritus would she even know of that word. Feminism is abhorred by nature.

      • saf

        No wonder only 23% of women and 16% of men consider themselves feminists.

        • Stephen Jones

          Where did those stats come from?
          I’ve seen very different numbers, however they were strictly college and university students

          • saf

            huffingtonpost. com/2013/04/16/feminism-poll_n_3094917.html

            psychologytoday. com/blog/vitamin-f/201308/feminism-is-dead-long-live-feminism

        • Teflon Expat

          In the US only. Considering the planet, it drops to less than 1% of women. The US government provides men with a little blue book for dating.

  • http://www.mancheeze.wordpress.com Joy

    I love when they start bringing out the Shoah rhetoric. Karen Straughn, the Queen Bee of the handful of female MRA’s uses the Holocaust to shame men. http://mancheeze.wordpress.com/2014/01/24/karen-straugn-uses-the-holocaust-to-shame-men/

    I let them spew for a while they’re misogynist hate screeds and come back later to harvest their hate speech.

    • saf

      Joy, the feminist troll mouse trying to increase her website’s traffic by peddling her bullcrap.

      Hilarious!

    • Teflon Expat

      Its a certainty that the self-denigrating street protests are done with for good. So now its back to the same old tired ineffective go nowhere rhetoric.

    • driversuz

      Oh dear. You probably shouldn’t embarrass yourself by linking your website.

    • Guest

      To shame “men”… I guess you’re betting no one will click that link and discover that it was a tongue in cheek jab at one person who happens to be male.

    • Roger The Alien

      Way to cannibalize yourself… such integrity!

      • Teflon Expat

        Such feminism. Thus the American public embraces anti-feminism. They’re plain sick of this ruinous group.

    • EqualityEd

      You have the nerve to talk about ‘hate screed’ when your entire cause is to hate on those showing compassion for men and boys. When do they get to be human? Why must their advocates endure protest from people like you?

      This bullying and ‘no platform’ nonsense is about nothing but your desire for control. There have been plenty of authoritarians who came before you out to oppress people for thinking different thoughts and it’s you who are being exposed as a hater no matter how many times you cry “misogynist”.

      The sexism is in why you chose to silence these people. It’s not what they say but who they are advocating for: MEN AND BOYS!

  • saf

    Feminism – We demand equality of rights for women in respect to the men.

    Nazism – We demand equality of rights for the German people in respect to the other nations (2nd point in Program of the NSDAP)

    Feminism and Nazism have both -

    - Discriminated against individuals on the basis of their genetic code.

    - Promoted propaganda that led to the targeted group being constantly ridiculed

    - Promoted propaganda that led to the targeted group being laughed at even when mutilated .

    - Demonised the target group by labelling them as perverts and sexual criminals,

    - Sought to break the target group away from their families

    - Promoted the view that the targeted group was responsible for most of the major ills in society

    - Disseminated lies and disinformation about the targeted group in order to further promote their own ideology

    - Disseminated lies and disinformation about historical matters

    - Used intimidation, threats and coercion to prevent their opponents from speaking out

    - Promoted the lie that the privileged group consisted of innocent ‘victims’ of the targeted group e.g. “women have been oppressed throughout history.”

    - Demanded special privileges in the workplace for members of the privileged group

    - Promoted the view that the targeted group was inferior genetically and behaviourally

    - Discriminated against the targeted group in educational matters and in the workplace

    - Perverted the justice system so that members of the targeted group were easily discriminated against in the law e.g. in family courts;

    - Arranged matters so that accusers from the privileged group could be shielded by anonymity in the courtroom

    - Arranged matters so that defendants from the targeted group had to ‘prove’ their innocence e.g. in sex-assault and domestic violence cases;

    - Arranged matters so that members of the privileged group could capriciously define what, legally, was to be deemed ‘a crime’, e.g. where nowadays the ‘feelings’ of women rather than the behaviours of men are the determinants of what constitutes ‘a crime’

    - Arranged matters so that members of the privileged group could capriciously define how the law was to view certain matters e.g. a fetus inside a woman can now be deemed by her – at her whim – to be a worthless piece of tissue or a prospective baby – with all the ramifications of this – regardless of how the father might feel about it all

    - Arranged matters so that the law punished members of the targeted group more severely than members of the privileged group for the very same crime .

    - Arranged matters so that members of the targeted group were made responsible for the choices and behaviours of members of the privileged group e.g. in paternity fraud cases where duped fathers still have to pay child support

    - Arranged matters so that members of the privileged group who harmed, or even murdered, members of the targeted group were shown undue leniency – and were often actually applauded for their actions,.

    - Arranged matters so that the law punished members of the targeted group severely for even trivial offences –

    - Arranged matters so that members of the privileged group earned a right to the property of members of the targeted group for no other reason than that they were members of the privileged group

    - Arranged matters so that certain speech or attitudes directed against the privileged group were criminalised

    - Punished those who protested against the prevailing ideology; e.g. for being politically-incorrect.

    - Effectively controlled the mainstream media and the academic institutions and arranged for them to present a dishonest and dishonourable point of view in support of their ideology

    - Consistently highlighted and exaggerated the achievements and the suffering of the privileged group while downplaying the achievements and the suffering of the targeted group

    - Ran government-funded educational courses in universities and in schools to promote the privileged group at the expense of the targeted group.

    - Persisted in a long term campaign of hatred toward the targeted group,

    Bar the heavy violence and the gas chambers – feminism and Nazism are surely very similar indeed.

    • Incubus

      Hitler also got to be so crazy, that he honestly promoted the idea that the Aryan race was descended from Atlanteans, and that’s why they were inherently superior. On these grounds, he sent archaeologists to find some highly questionable evidence that this race he made up once ruled a vast empire, and all other European lands had been stolen from it. On these grounds, he justified going to war with most of Europe, and portrayed it as a fair taking-back of land that once belonged to the Aryans.

      Feminists, by contrast, have made up some interesting theories about the Y chromosome being an erratic deformation of nature, and of males, therefore, being inherently flawed. They’ve also made up quite a bit of stories about women being universally oppressed since the dawn of time, and just happening to finally stand up for their rights at the exact same moment that technology finally allowed them to live comfortable lives doing the same thing as men. Academicians have been sent to find come up with highly-questionable data on the abundance of rape in our society. On these grounds, they’ve justified taking the vast majority of things men have earned and worked for.

      • Stephen Jones

        Ahh, the deformed Y chromosome myth, that was a doozy.

  • http://www.mancheeze.wordpress.com Joy

    When MRA’s spammed Occidental College with hundreds of false rape reports Paul Elam said ‘nor do we officially endorse what happened. We do not denounce it, either.’

    This is the same bunch of MRA’s who whine incessantly about false rape claims and yet were willing to send hundreds of false claims to a college who is seriously trying to improve help to victims of college rape.

    Your MRA movement is full of a bunch of jackasses.

    • Teflon Expat

      If it angers feminists, its all good.

    • Incubus

      Good for him. I DO endorse it. You’re expecting men to just take it nicely when a university enacts new policies that allow them to destroy an innocent man’s life based on an anonymous claim against him?

      Civil disobedience means, well, exactly what was done in that situation: those people disobeyed the law, but did so in a civil matter. Maybe too much of our backwards society has convinced you that civil disobedience means getting a permit to hold your rally somewhere where the city gives you permission to. That isn’t what civil disobedience means at all. This was an admirable sign of protest, and I stand by the MRAs who did that.

    • Roger The Alien

      And the school acknowledged that there was a problem with their system and would diligently work to fix it. I see you conveniently left out the good the stunt did.

      I guess as long as men are locked up for rape it doesn’t matter if they did it or not… whatever adds fuel to your victim-hood, right?

    • Dennis Markham

      Improve helping vicimts of college rape? How the hell does letting ANONYMOUS students accuse their fellows of rape with no evidence and be taken seriously facilitate that?

      No one who was truly raped would submit one of those reports because the accused would instantly know who did it. The only thing Occidental College did was facilitate the vilification of innocent men with no accountability on the other side. Maybe when you get a conscience you’ll see what’s wrong with being able to brand an innocent college boy a rapist at whim without even having the balls to put your name to it.

  • saf

    The weakest and most frail woman, backed by the whole power of the State, may easily annihilate by the State forces summoned by her scream, a legion of Sarnsons or Hercules.

    The Legal Subjection of Men – Ernest Belfort Bax

  • mbravo00

    feminists are terrorists and need to be treated as such.

  • Teflon Expat

    Feminists cover their ears whenever it is stated that only a very small number of men have the power. Feminists like the apex fallacy since without it, they can’t make claims of inequality. Its a real bubble burster for them. The order of power in society is a few men at top, most women next and then most men right below

  • saf

    Please read this before it gets deleted -

    See the MEN’S RIGHTS conference forced to being cancelled? Still think that “Men have all the power” ?

    Please read this -

    We must once more refer, on account of its wide- spreading popularity, to the cheap sneer by which some small but gallant” wits may endeavour to turn the edge of the foregoing observations, namely, the attempt to play of the muscular inferiority of women to men as an answer to any allegation of oppression exercised on behalf of the so-called weaker sex. When looked at fairly in the face, the point in question will he seen so preposterously absurd as to be hardly worth answering. But, nevertheless, absurd as it is, it undoubtedly plays a part, half unconsciously, in the apathy of most men on the question of female privilege. Because men are muscularly stronger than women, it is felt by many, and the feeling is supported by the class of cheap wit- ticism above referred to, that therefore it is im- possible for men to be seriously oppressed by women. A moment’s reflection suffices to show that the question of muscular strength or weakness is absolutely immaterial to the issue. It would be just as reasonable to suppose that because the Czar of Russia and his high officials were less muscularly developed than the average Russian peasant, that the possibility of the Russian peasant being seriously oppressed by the Czar or his government was a proposition to be laughed 61 at. The weakest and most frail woman, backed by the whole power of the State, may easily annihilate by the State forces summoned by her scream, a legion of Sarnsons or Hercules.

    The Legal Subjection of Men – Ernest Belfort Bax

  • http://www.mancheeze.wordpress.com Joy

    And true to form, if any one of them makes horrific comments that are moderated they claim feminists stole their cookies. See how funny these MRA’s are?

    • EqualityEd

      Stole their cookies? You’ve been shutting down events from Detroit to Canada as if freedom to speak right only to be granted with the consent of feminist. You are a oppressor.

  • http://www.mancheeze.wordpress.com Joy

    Hi Steve!

    Nobody really knows who cancelled who but I suspect we’ll hear about that soon. I’m glad to hear it’s not going to be at the Hilton. It really should take place in Paul Elam’s back yard.

    The entire event is a wank-fest complete with rape apology and this paranoid delusion that feminists just make up rape stats and lie about it. These morons also think feminists, and by extension women, lie about domestic violence too.

    These idiots don’t understand what feminism is, to be sure. It is funny watching them define things such as rape culture and patriarchy. It’s a hoot.

    What people need to know is that every time they mention some study or another that they claim supports them, you must look into it. They are horrible at reading scientific papers and know absolutely nothing about methodologically sound studies.

    For example, they claim domestic violence levels and severity are the same for both sexes. They use a few flawed studies (Straus) that use a measurement that’s been thoroughly debunked by many researchers. Then they post this bibliography by Fiebert and think that’s ‘evidence.’

    It really is a hoot being an educated woman while watching them make faulty claims and mangle research.

    • Incubus

      It’s ironic to see someone talking about credible studies after posting this kind of bigotry, but if you can point me to any study which debunks equal levels of domestic violence in both men and women, I would love to see it.

      • driversuz

        She can’t.
        Blowing smoke as usual.

    • http://www.mancheeze.wordpress.com Joy

      Look at them all typing away!

      • Incubus

        Still waiting for that study.

    • Roger The Alien

      Joy cites credible studies but she offers links to a bloggers rant when asked for credible information.

    • EqualityEd

      The CDC NISVS 2010 is a flawed study and claiming men are equally victims is a cause to shut down a conference? It seems male victims so worthless in your mind that you must go to utter extremes to marginalize them. This of course is exactly why we need Men’s Rights activist in the first hate. There is a group of rabid anti male hate mongers who’ve spent decades feeding the public every distorted lie they could manufacturing to convince them men simply weren’t worth caring about. Your movement and activist like you are the sexism they face down just to show men and boys compassion. The oppression of of these people extends to all men. They need advocates to protect them from viscous bullies who will stop at nothing to see them marginalized.

    • http://www.motorcitymuckraker.com/ muckraker_abby

      Hey Joy, please refrain from name-calling.

  • Karen Zill

    These bastards are deleting comments that point out their false reporting.

    • driversuz

      Pfft! Ya think? The author is asking random commenters for “inside” information! Not exactly a reliable source of accurate information….

      • Stephen Jones

        Seriously? For some reason I had the idea that the author was a pretty bright guy, just a bit misinformed. He’s asking commentators instead of just contacting an actual representative? Come on! They put their contact info everywhere!

        • Guest

          HAHAH! Obviously you aren’t Detroiters. Welcome to the Motor City Muckraker, the most unreliable source of news anywhere. Surprisingly, however, this story is correct as the Detroit News has now verified it.

        • Guest

          They put their contact info in comment sections..lol

          • Stephen Jones

            No… on their website, obviously

    • muckraker_steve

      No one is deleting comments about our reporting. We’ve deleted three or four comments that were personally attacking other people. You are more than welcome to question the accuracy of this story. But first indicate what you believe is wrong.

  • http://www.mancheeze.wordpress.com Joy

    Mike Buchanan, a speaker at the upcoming hate fest stated:

    “I believe girls learn at a young age that whining gets them
    what they want, especially from over-indulgent parents who might
    later wonder why their daughters became Entitlement Princesses.
    Inevitably these girls continue whining into adolescence and
    adulthood because they continue to get what they want. It’s
    up to men to break the cycle …’

    • Incubus

      That’s about what most psychologists believe, and it’s the feminist explanation for why women still cry and behave emotionally as adults, while men do not. The sexist explanation would be to say that women are just big babies.

    • Teflon Expat

      And the problem is?

    • Roger The Alien

      He 100% right…

      Isn’t ironic to dispute this given the enormous tissy that was just thrown by feminists (largely made of middle to upper class white women) which included physical threats of violence?

    • driversuz

      Feminists sure aren’t going to break the cycle; they profit greatly from maintaining all the Entitlement Princesses.

      Of course, I don’t necessarily agree that it must be only men who would do it. Responsible women (aka Gender Traitors) are more than happy to hold our fellow females to account.

    • Auntie Alias

      Hate speech and look at all the cheerleaders for it.

      • Roger The Alien

        Says the person who believes men being falsely accused of rape is a conspiracy theory…

        Your meds are calling, Auntie.

        • Auntie Alias

          This is what I’m talking about. You twist things into an unrecognizable form to suit your own beliefs.

          • Incubus

            You’re the one who did that. How is that even hate speech?

          • Auntie Alias

            He twisted what I said about Occidental College elsewhere.

            The characterization of ALL girls as whining Entitlement Princesses is hate speech. This also debunks the notion that AVFM only hates feminists. They publish just as much vitriol about girls and women.

          • Roger The Alien

            No I didn’t. I explicitly stated a fact and you wrote it off as a conspiracy theory.

            “These girls” does not = all girls… he is speaking about a certain group.

            Talk about twisting someone’s words.

          • Auntie Alias

            Your reading comprehension is non-existent.

          • Roger The Alien

            Says you, the person only reading what she wants to see.

            Auntie, the nurse is calling with your meds.

          • Incubus

            Like feminism, the MRM does explore societal reasons that cause people of different sexes to behave differently as adults. Unlike feminism, it acknowledges both good and bad traits that are developed in women as a result of this. If you want to label that as “hate speech,” I don’t know what to tell you.

          • Auntie Alias

            Oh come on! “Entitlement Princesses” isn’t a sociological analysis of female behaviour. You guys flip out when you perceive that anyone is painting all men as violent and call that hate speech or misandry. Why the double standard?

          • Roger The Alien

            Feminists consider all men potential rapists and a threat. All men. Not a group, like this man clearly stated.

          • Auntie Alias

            There is no use debating with you. Your mind is cemented shut.

          • Incubus

            I don’t see that as closed minded. He’s making a point that feminism has said a host of negative things about men, which are directed at all men, and ARE hate speech. Yet you’ll dismiss our validity because we use terms like “Entitlement Princesses.”

          • Roger The Alien

            That’s because you don’t have an argument. You know I’m right.

          • driversuz

            Who do you and Joy think you’re fooling anymore? No facts, no data, no evidence of anything, just a nonstop stream of innuendo and juvenile insults. How much do you two get paid for this lame propaganda, and who is dumb enough to think they’re getting their money’s worth?
            Sheesh.

          • Auntie Alias

            Gee, I wish I was getting paid for it, Suz. I earn money the regular way.

            How much does being a puppet for a hate group pay?

          • driversuz

            Said by the anonymous poster who preaches bigotry every day.

          • Incubus

            “I earn money the regular way.”

            Would that be by making up imaginary problems women face in order to get funding to solve them?

          • Auntie Alias

            That would be in a technology field.

          • driversuz

            Uhuh. Spreading propaganda over the internet.
            You know, for a few years when my child was young I was a domestic engineer.

          • Auntie Alias

            “I believe girls learn at a young age…”

            Not some girls. All girls.

          • Roger The Alien

            “Inevitably these girls…”

            “These girls” meaning a certain type. I wonder where your buddy decided to copy and paste this from. Probably her own blog given her track record.

          • Incubus

            Different members of our movement use different levels of professionalism in what they write. But exploring social factors is a common theme in the literature of this movement. And “Entitlement Princesses” generally isn’t used to refer to all women, only certain women who behave a certain way.

          • Auntie Alias

            The wording indicated that all girls develop the same way. It wasn’t qualified.

            Trends can be described without resorting to hateful insults.

          • Roger The Alien

            No it didn’t. He made it clear that he was talking about a specific group. Read it again.

          • Incubus

            When your movement offers official apologies for declaring that all men are potential rapists and that every man who has ever had sex raped the woman he had sex with, and for promoting laws which define the man as being a rapist just because two drunk people have sex, and for campaigning to get Valerie Solanas out of prison after she wrote a manifesto about hacking men into pieces right before she tried to murder two innocent men, and for, in spite of this, spreading the misinformation that Elliot Rodger was an MRM, THEN we’ll talk about picking apart random sentences from our literature to try to establish them as some form of “hate speech.”

          • Auntie Alias

            I struck a nerve, I see.

          • Incubus

            It’s funny that that’s your interpretation of common sense.

          • Auntie Alias

            Coming from you, it was quite a rant.

            I really don’t get the anger over all men being potential rapists. If you told me all women were potential murderers…well, they are. Anyone could potentially rape or murder another person. The key word is ‘potential’.

          • Incubus

            So you don’t get the anger over that, but you’re upset about being told women grow up being told it’s okay to whine?

            Yeah, somehow I’m just not buying the claim that you’d take it differently if it were about women murderers. And no, it wasn’t a rant at all. Sorry if that’s how you take what anyone else would take as common sense in this situation.

          • Auntie Alias

            No one says all men are rapists. (No quotes from dead feminists, please. I’m talking about mainstream feminist thought today.) The quote we’re discussing said all girls are Entitlement Princesses. See the difference?

          • Incubus

            We’ve already established that your movement has done nothing to refute the claims of dead feminists. Until it has, your movement takes responsibility for them.

          • Auntie Alias

            What do you want? A signed statement from every person who identifies as a feminist? How absurd.

          • Incubus

            No, it doesn’t take that at all. Our movement has done a very good job of policing itself, because the most prominent members of the movement do so rather than making excuses “Not all MRAs are like that.” How ludicrous it is of you to try and label us as making hate speech when your own movement does no policing whatsoever isn’t something that needs to be explained to any child older than three.

          • Auntie Alias

            AVFM isn’t the MRM. No one polices the MRM or feminism. Both are global movements made up of individuals who share some common beliefs but disagree on others.

          • Incubus

            The MRM is self policing. The MRM is one of many prominent figures in the movement that does this. Karen Straughan has also said she would stop supporting the movement if it endorsed that kind of behavior. It’s obvious you’re just making excuses now.

          • RubberPunch

            If the point is potentiality, why the qualifiers? Wouldn’t it be more correct to state that ‘all humans are potential rapists and murderers’?

            And if so, why just rape and murder? You could add anything really, like ‘dog food’ or ‘cyclists’.

            Humans has a lot of potentials, why single out rape and males?

          • Stephen Jones

            She’s splitting the thinnest of hairs… why even respond to that nonsense?

          • Auntie Alias

            I assume this stems from the Schrödinger’s Rapist article. Short version: It asks men to understand why women are cautious around men they don’t know.

            Edit: Sorry, the link isn’t working due to apostrophes in the URL but you can google it.

          • RubberPunch

            Why would women be particularly cautious around men if everyone has the same potential for being a rapist?

          • Auntie Alias

            We’re talking about men who approach strange women or men in the early dating stages with women.

          • RubberPunch

            That doesn’t answer the question though. If everyone has the same potential, there is no more or less reason to fear anyone particularly over others. It is just as valid to claim that all women are potential rapists, and thus there is no reason why females should be any more cautious than males.

          • Auntie Alias

            I think you’re being deliberately obtuse.

          • EqualityEd

            It’s a unpleasant negative gender generalization not hate speech. That’s the sort of thing you do all the time in regard to men so don’t play innocent.

          • Auntie Alias

            An unpleasant negative racial generalization is hate speech and so is an “unpleasant negative gender generalization”.

          • Roger The Alien

            I didn’t twist anything. It’s exactly what you said and it’s posted for all to see. Your own words. Your brand of psycho babble.

          • driversuz

            …says the person who does exactly that for a living.

          • Auntie Alias

            Sure, Suzanne.

        • http://www.motorcitymuckraker.com/ muckraker_abby

          Please make your arguments without mocking mental illness.

          • Roger The Alien

            I wasn’t mocking mental illness.

            Regardless, mental illness is not a norm or accepted, hence the use of therapy and medication to cure mental illness.

            Let’s not be so PC that we accept crazy as a norm.

          • http://www.motorcitymuckraker.com/ muckraker_abby

            You can apply your standards to your comment sections, and we will apply ours.

      • driversuz

        Hi Dave.

    • saf

      This is absolutely correct. Thanks for highlighting it. He is a visionary.

  • Teflon Expat

    The threat is real. The letter is real. Want proof? Your purposely being kept from that proof because knowing you’re going batshit crazy over it is VERY rewarding. Now deal or stfu. Those are your choices.

  • Karen Zill

    Also, according to the receptionist, the General Manager at this location is named Darren Shelby. That’s probably a man. This author is quite literally making stuff up.

  • Teflon Expat

    The men who arrive in two weeks are making history. Its worth every dollar spent. The return on investment is knowing that this is a transfer of the national gender discourse control from the feminist to the MRA. You are national heroes. The feminists march entertainment notwithstanding. Set up your lawn chairs along the route, grab some beers and cheer them on. Don’t forget the video cameras.

  • Dust Buster

    YEAHHHH THE SEA-HAGS AND FEMIFASCISTS WON !!!!!!!!! SILENCE MEN AND EVISERATE THEM!!!!!! WE CANT YET NEUTER THEM BUT WE CAN CASTRATE THEIR VOICES !!!!!!!

    • http://www.motorcitymuckraker.com/ muckraker_abby

      Not sure if this is meant in seriousness or jest… but please refrain from name-calling.

  • hhgtrd

    Ernest belfort bax said it best – ‘Maudlin rants of demagogic charlatans’

    Absolutely perfect description for feminists. Feminists employ ‘appeal to emotions’ to dupe you. The less intellectually inclined always fall for it.

    Impassioned appeals are an extremely powerful weapon.

    • Incubus

      Yeah, it’s funny how the women who are part of the MRM are always the strongest in character, whereas I’ve never met or heard of a single feminist who was strong or intellectually sound. Not even when you include the famous ones like Dworkin, Steinem, Solanas, etc.

      • Auntie Alias

        No strong woman aligns herself with misogynists.

        • Incubus

          Realistically, I think that would depend on the situation. But I don’t think anyone here said anything to the contrary.

          • Auntie Alias

            No woman with a strong character would associate with men who hate women.

          • saf

            Show me the “Misogyny”.

          • Auntie Alias

            I won’t waste my time detailing it only to be told it was satire and other pitiful excuses.

          • Incubus

            Even if it hadn’t been satire, there still wouldn’t be any excuse for the fact that that’s what you choose to get upset about, when you’ve done nothing to address the Jezebel feminists who ACTUALLY WERE abusing their boyfriends and then laughing about it. And you call us pitiful?

          • driversuz

            Yeahbut…If men talk about it, it’s because they’re bad. If women act on it, we call that “empowerment.”

          • Auntie Alias

            Is that the Jezebel article that no longer exists? I’ve been curious after hearing so much about it.

          • driversuz

            Don’t you get tired of keeping track of your lies, or do you keep a script next to your keyboard?

            One of these days you might say something you can back up with quantifiable evidence, and I will very likely faint from sheer surprise.

          • Auntie Alias

            Aw, just because you’re not around to see me back up what I say with evidence doesn’t mean I don’t. I have done so on this very page.

      • plantmouth

        You must’ve not been around very long:

        Simone de Beauvoir
        Judith Butler
        Betty Friedan / N.O.W.
        Audre Lorde
        Jane Addams

        Maybe you should spend some time learning about feminism and why it’s important before you assume the anti-feminist position. Seriously, I’m sure the MRM would command much more respect if it’s members weren’t so anti-women.

        • Incubus

          Maybe you should at least read the other comments before assuming people aren’t educated in statements they’re making. Just a thought.

  • hhgtrd

    Please don’t feed the rat below by the name ‘Joy’. It is a known feminist troll rat. Sort of mentally unstable.

    • hhgtrd

      Also note that this rat’s agenda is to increase traffic of its website by exploiting MRA related articles. The more you feed it, the more you help it grow.

    • plantmouth

      The piece that Joy posted as attributed to Stefan Molyneux seems to show at least one of the MRA movement’s “scholars” has no understanding of reality. Hopefully he’s the only one, but I bet I’m wrong.

    • http://www.motorcitymuckraker.com/ muckraker_abby

      Refrain from personal attacks or you will be banned.

  • http://www.mancheeze.wordpress.com Joy
    • Incubus

      Well, that’s one way to spin valid objections of feminist figures.

      Funny thing is your second link is criticizing the MRM for identifying a woman who – as captured in Facebook screenshots – was involved in the hate campaign that sent the death threats. And WE’RE the ones you think are wrong???

      Apparently, anything that’s standing up to feminists is “harassment?!” Do you even read what you post?

  • Teflon Expat

    By Friday, the feminists will have blown off enough steam to go back to their regular gripes. But this was good.

  • http://thebrandbuilder.wordpress.com olivierBlanchard

    Not sure about the ‘hate group’ classification for MRM. They should fall more into an ‘association of losers, by losers, for losers’ classification (sort of like NAMBLA). That’s it: a ‘loser group.’ Because it isn’t hate exactly, is it? No. Hate is the wrong word. What’s going on with the Men’s Rights Movement is far more pathetic than that.

    • Incubus

      I guess no one told you this discussion is for adults. Empty insults like those got old in ninth grade.

      • coltov mocktail

        at least it was better than his last nah, nah, nah-nah, nah.

    • Teflon Expat

      Why are a gaggle of feminists so obsessed with a bunch of losers. Something is amiss

      • BruceMcGlory

        Why is a gaggle of losers so obsessed with feminists who couldn’t care less about them. Kinda pathetic.

        • Incubus

          If your idea of not being able to care less is 200 people holding a protest on a Saturday, either you need to get a life, or you need to go back to school.

          This ninth-grade-esque ‘diss war’ is about the only thing I ever see coming from this side. MRAs, being adults, tend to stick you, you know, facts.

        • Roger The Alien

          Seems to be the other way around. Not much in the news about MRAs protesting feminist cons and issuing death threats.

        • Stephen Jones

          If they couldn’t care less about them, why are we having this discussion?
          Why did they send threats of violence in an effort to shut down a conference about men’s issues?
          It seems to me, they care quite a bit. And honestly, the only reason this discussion is happening is because feminist radicals involved themselves, and put MRA’s in a position where they had to defend their position.

          You can’t attack someone, and then cry foul when they defend themselves.

        • driversuz

          “Couldn’t care less about them,” eh? Is that why they follow us around blocking doorways, shooting dogs and pulling fire alarms?

    • BruceMcGlory

      “like NAMBLA”) LOL you win. Please come to the customer service desk to collect your internet.

    • RubberPunch

      Congratulations on winning. Do you know what you won?

    • Roger The Alien

      You laugh now, but I hope you never hook up with the wrong woman, who you knock-up and wed only for her divorce you and drag you through the system, milking every dime from you.

      • plantmouth

        Ooh, scary women!

        • Roger The Alien

          “Let them eat cake…”

        • Stephen Jones

          What happened to “Women can do anything a man can do, and they’ll do it better, and they’ll do it in heels”
          Now it’s OK to belittle women… because it suits your argument?
          Yes, contrary to what you are implying, women are capable of “being scary”
          Police forces across the country agree with me.
          As do both the Canadian and U.S. militaries.
          As does the World Wrestling Federation… I bet you never thought you’d see the day when the WWF was more progressive than yourself, did you?

    • Dust Buster

      I BET YOU WALK AROUND WITH A BUTT PLUG INSIDE YOUR MANGINA AND A RED BALL IN YOUR MOUTH

      • Incubus

        Let’s not act like them here.

      • http://www.mancheeze.wordpress.com Joy

        Yep. This is a typical MRA. Just like the rest of them here in the comment section, just shitting up the place.

      • Stephen Jones

        See what you’ve done, Dust Buster? You’ve gone and given Joy the false impression that since she’s actually found one, we must all be juvenile jackasses.

  • BruceMcGlory

    “It’s questionable whether this conversation ever occurred because the general manager is a woman.”
    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA There’s the mra movement in a nutshell: baldfaced fucking lying bigots.

    • Stephen Jones

      Who made that statement? There are no quotation marks… I think it was the author of this article, not someone representing the MRM

      • BruceMcGlory

        *facepalm* It means that the mra who told the story about the feminist-phobic GM was lying. Which is par for the course with mras. Is that simple enough to understand now?

        • Teflon Expat

          Show up with a sharpie and sign in two weeks and be all bitchy then too.

          • BruceMcGlory

            Dude, stop hitting on me.

        • Stephen Jones

          “The MRA who told the story”?
          Was he being quoted or not?

          • BruceMcGlory

            Are you actually this incapable of comprehending what you read or are you attempting some flaccid gotcha?

          • Stephen Jones

            Was that a direct quote, or were those words chosen by someone else?

          • Stephen Jones

            The correct answer is “i don’t know”
            You see, Bruce, in writing, when someone is being quoted, we employ quotation marks. The absence of these suggests (very strongly suggests) that these were not the words spoken by “the MRA who told the story”.

            Condemning an entire group based on words put in the mouth of one of them is… questionable.

    • Teflon Expat

      It was that wig and skirt Larry Brown was sporting.

  • Jon Booth

    This is all that needs to be said about the baseless free speech argument: http://xkcd.com/1357/

    • librtee_dot_com

      And it doesn’t in any way describe this situation. Calling in death threats / physically barricading the door / pulling fire alarms are all designed to disrupt and shutdown speech, all go far beyond ‘being yelled at, boycotted, banned from an internet community.

      And it must be pointed out that, despite his popularity, Mr. XKCD isn’t god, neither is he a legal authority. Saying that ‘free speech is the government not arresting you for speech’ is a gross oversimplification. For instance, what if you were leafletting, and the government never arrested you, but consistently came and stole your leaflets? Would that not be a violation of free speech? How about if a mob followed you around and threatened anyone who tried to talk with you? Would that not be a violation of free speech?

      In reality, what the MRAs are asking here is not even so much ‘free speech’, as basic physical protection.

  • http://www.mancheeze.wordpress.com Joy

    Stefan Molyneux, a speaker at the MRA conference, which they’re keeping the location mum, said this:

    ‘Women who choose the assholes will fucking end … this human
    race. … Women who choose assholes guarantee child abuse. Women who
    choose assholes guarantee criminality. …

    And I don’t know how to make the world a better place without
    holding women accountable for choosing assholes.

    Your dad was an asshole because your mother chose him. … Women …
    keep the evil of the species going by continually choosing these
    guys.

    If being an asshole didn’t get women, there would be no assholes
    left. If women chose nice guys over assholes we would have a glorious
    and peaceful world in one generation. Women determine the personality
    traits of the men because women choose who to have sex with, and who
    to have children with, and who to expose those children to. …

    Stop fucking monsters and we get a great world. Keep fucking
    monsters, we get catastrophes, we get war, we get nuclear weapons, we
    get national debt, we get incarcerations … Women worship at the
    feet of the devil and wonder why the world is evil. And then you know
    what they say? We’re victims!’

    He’s a vapid misogynist. Stay tuned for more!

    • Roger The Alien

      So women don’t choose who they sleep with?

      • plantmouth

        Yes, they do, but thinking that all of the men in the world are either “assholes” or “nice guys” as this guy does is an egregious and nonsensical oversimplification of the issues he is attempting to contest. Is there any data to back these ideas up, or is this anecdotal evidence seen as logically sound?

        • Roger The Alien

          I didn’t take what he was saying as such.

          Women have the final choice. They choose in the end who they are going to have sex with and they are the ultimate deciders upon whether or not to keep a pregnancy.

          If a woman has a baby to a criminal (aka asshole) chances are, that child grow up to be a criminal as well. This isn’t rocket science and there’s plenty of data to back this up.

          • plantmouth

            What? Men and women make a mutual decision if they will sleep together. Men choose who they sleep with just as much as women do. And yes, women do have more power over pregnancy, but that’s because they are the ones getting pregnant. I think you probably know that pregnancy has massive implications for a woman’s health as well as the direction of her entire life! And that’s a conversation you should have with a woman before you decide to attempt pregnancy. If you really want a child, then marry a woman who also wants a child or adopt.

            Also, I am sure there is plenty of data that correlates criminal records along family lines, but it’s wrong to assume it comes “from the father.” It has much more to do with poverty, race, class, and social position than the father himself.

          • Roger The Alien

            “Men and women make a mutual decision if they will sleep together.”

            Not all the time. And no, a man doesn’t have as much choice as the woman. When comes to sex, a woman is given the final say. Not only socially speaking, but lawfully as well.

            I understand the ins and outs of pregnancy. I’m not arguing. I’m just stating that it’s the woman’s final say. However I do believe if her parent bows out legally, and she decides to raise the child against his wishes she shouldn’t be able to come after him for child support, but that’s another matter entirely.

            You might think it’s wrong to assume the father, however, men are more times likely to go to prison or serve jail time than a woman. And this correlates to single women raising children below the poverty line while the father or fathers are sitting in jail.

    • Teflon Expat

      So, you’re offended by this?

    • RubberPunch

      Sounds more like he hates assholes than women tbh

    • librtee_dot_com

      Do you have an actual rebuttal to the point he makes, other than ‘vapid misogyiny?’

      Name calling only counts for debate in the land of the intellectually crippled.

      If what he is saying is bullshit, describe WHY it is bullshit, don’t just call him a ‘misogynyst’ and assume that the rest of us are as mentally torpid as your usual friends to accept such a weak rebuttal.

      • plantmouth

        It’s bullshit because it’s anecdotal, contains no data, and has no concrete ideas at all. The simplification of men into “assholes” and “nice guys” has no basis in reality, and there is no logical connection between women “choosing” to marry the “assholes” and the national debt! It is a completely fantastical argument, and makes no sense at all unless you believe in “good guys” and “bad guys.” The world ain’t so black and white.

    • Stephen Jones

      That’s misogynist?
      He refers to men as assholes 8 times, and monsters twice.

      • plantmouth

        It sounds more like he, one of the self-proclaimed “nice guys,” is bitter that he’s not getting laid more often. His sexual frustration is seeming to exert itself in a political manner.

        • Stephen Jones

          Maybe to you… but at least you agree that it’s not an example of misogyny

          • plantmouth

            If his view is that women are powerless beings who can’t help but be attracted to “monsters,” or that they are less intellectually sound because they don’t supposedly go for the “good guys,” then yes, that is a misogynistic view. It seems he is placing the fault of the world on women’s sexual choices alone, and, yes, that would be a misogynistic view. Also an absurd one.

          • Stephen Jones

            Yes, that would have been a misogynistic view.

    • driversuz

      TLDR:
      Man bad, woman good.
      Hi Joy. Nice to see you. Will you be coming to the conference?

      • Teflon Expat

        To see what the protest wrought? The future of gender discourse

    • Mike Hunt

      I upvoted this because it makes you look like the raving lunatic that you are.

  • http://www.google.com Smiles

    “The group also accuses women of exaggerating the severity of rape”

    No, the group accuses FEMINISTS of exaggerating the severity of rape.

    Women =/= feminist

    • coltov mocktail

      not even the severity, the propensity. the author was such a dumb ass

  • http://www.mancheeze.wordpress.com Joy

    I think my best Hilton experience was staying in New York near JFK. We had a flight out the next day to Port au Prince, Haiti. We went from BOS on a 747 to JFK as they were ferrying the plane. It was amazing having all that plane to myself!

    I’m happy there won’t be any rape apologetic speakers at that hotel.

    • Teflon Expat

      There never were going to be any of whatever that is. Any other tidbits about your charming pre psycho feminist life?

      • Kimski

        Don’t ask!!!!!
        I’m just saying!!

      • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

        for the love of all that is sacred don’t ask, she will fold you into her web of mediocre lies and fantasies.

    • Stephen Jones

      Nope, I’ve just checked, there never were any rape apologists scheduled to speak.
      Not even Naomi Klein…

      • driversuz

        Adele Mercier wouldn’t commit either.

        • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

          lmao priceless !

          • coltov mocktail

            she’d probably say: “and I don’t know what the HELL you’re talking about”.

    • http://www.groverbeachbum.blogspot.com/ Neil

      Can man-haters do ANYTHING except lie? Apparently not.

    • Mike Hunt

      This woman lives in filthy, dingy apartment infested with mice that she considers her friends.

      Her jet-setting stories are pure fantasy.

  • Mike Hunt

    test

    • Stephen Jones

      Check, check… ch-ch-check 1234

  • http://www.mancheeze.wordpress.com Joy

    I love the Hilton. When I was young and traveling around the world I stayed at Hilton hotels when I could. I’m very happy the MRA’s won’t tarnish their name by stepping foot into that hotel.

    • Stephen Jones

      Ummm, we’ll still be using the rooms we rented, it’s only the conference itself that’s moved
      … sorry, Hilton tarnished.

      • Teflon Expat

        Yeah, got bumped by the NWSA who also got the banquet hall for mass calorie consumption.

        The next protest will be over keeping MRAs out of the rooms. The feminists are now Hotel Nazis – “No rooms for you!” as they grab the key cards with a mean look

      • driversuz

        I sure the hell won’t. Chickenshit pearl-clutching weasels don’t get my hard earned cash.

        • Stephen Jones

          It’s a business decision, and I cannot fault them for looking out for the safety of their employees, let alone their guests

    • coltov mocktail

      god forbid you have to encounter reality, you pampered boob.

      • driversuz

        Can I steal that to post whenever I encounter this particular cretin?

        • coltov mocktail

          if you give away everything, you can steal anything

    • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

      We’re thinking B.C next year Diana.
      What do you think?

      • Teflon Expat

        MRAs are a runaway train. It might get stopped by NOT by feminists.

  • Quack

    Say what you will about MRAs. BUT I’VE NEVER SEEN MEN’S GROUPS SHUT DOWN FEMINIST CONVENTIONS or even so much as organize to protest them. These idiots are so polluted with radical thinking they believe it’s okay to silence others they disagree with? SHAME.

    • Teflon Expat

      Not shame. Just feminism in its current form

  • coltov mocktail

    so is the Hilton Double Tree spineless? Is that the word?

    • Teflon Expat

      Feminist phobia. Also, the conference increased in size due to all the nice publicity

      • coltov mocktail

        i used to stay at the hilton all the time. i even have hilton honor points. i wonder if they know that they’re alienating their clientele by forcing the conference cancellation

        • Teflon Expat

          It wasn’t forced. But pretend it was so the feminists feel better.

          • coltov mocktail

            it wasn’t forced? what’s the story?

          • driversuz

            Watch for an announcement.

          • muckraker_steve

            You walked out on DoubleTree? Didn’t you guys have a contract?

          • Teflon Expat

            There are surprises in store in two weeks.

          • muckraker_steve

            That sounds more like a marketing ploy than a response to the question.

          • RubberPunch

            Gotta keep the hacks interested

          • Teflon Expat

            Good time to have a documentary. A docureality show

          • coltov mocktail

            yeah, steve that was a total bullshit line that a AVFM “accuses women of exaggerating the severity of rape”.

            The real accusation that AVFM levies is against feminists exaggerating (through falacious and manipulated statistics) the propensity for a women to be raped while minimizing to the point of non-existence through semantics and self-deceiving defintions the propensity for men to be raped by women.

          • Guest

            They allegedly got $25k because of the contract with the Doubletree. So what’s happening to that money? If they walked, did the threats even happen? Was it all staged to get more donations from oblivious MRA’s?

          • Teflon Expat

            This is a constant sticking point with feminists looking to cause internal conflict with AVfM. So how is that working out for ya?

          • Guest

            I noticed you didn’t answer any of those questions. And I won’t be the only one to notice that.

          • Teflon Expat

            Your play pals are coming here to demand answers? You will never ever know more than AVfM wants you to know. Deal

          • Guest

            Hahaha.. Where the money at?

          • Teflon Expat

            To The MRA all boys school to raise proper leaders of tomorrow.

          • Guest

            The one that doesn’t exist.. Gotcha.

          • Teflon Expat

            Need the down payment first…and its coming. Want to picket it?

          • driversuz

            Right where it belongs.

          • Guest

            SHOW ME THE MONEY!

          • coltov mocktail

            it isn’t yours

          • Stephen Jones

            Is it in any part your money? No?
            None of your business
            then.

          • Teflon Expat

            She is far more concerned with that $25k than her pet rock named misogyny

          • driversuz

            You didn’t see Dean’s post with the police report numbers? Tsk tsk.
            the money was donated for security and it will be used for security. Try to keep up, dear.

          • Teflon Expat

            Security needed to guard against potentially violent feminists. America will know what happened in Detroit. There is no hiding from this. VAHA is needed.

          • Guest

            Doubtful that it will be used for any security if the new hotel contract doesn’t require it. And if your “super secret he-man woman hater club” treehouse meeting is super secret, then why would there be security?

            Nope, that’s not happening at all. Esmay and Elam took yo’ money!

          • Teflon Expat

            Still surrounding your life around that money? No wonder feminism is so unpopular. Look at its members and what they obsess over. Other peoples business. You won’t come around with your signs and sharpies. You’re done. You’re loser movement is done.

          • driversuz

            I’m not a donor I’m a staff member. Last time I checked, anonymous “Guest” was not privy to the budget.

            Nice try, Troll.

          • Guest

            Hahaha.. staff members have to hit the comment sections.

          • driversuz

            Um. Duh. We call out liars, bigots and trolls wherever we find them. (It’s called FTSU.) Guess where many of them dwell.

          • driversuz

            Why are you asking a commenter instead of one of the organizers? Is this what you call a “source?”
            (No offence, Teflon Expat…)

  • Teflon Expat

    Why are the feminists so intensely focused on this whole threat letter thing? Don’t they have better things to do?…oh, wait

    • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

      Why are so many MRAs so focused on tearing down feminism instead of focusing on men’s issues?

      • Teflon Expat

        Its fun. But that can’t be the same reason

        • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

          You think I don’t have fun arguing with people I don’t agree with? I’m a contrarian by nature. Arguing is fun for me.

          • Teflon Expat

            Ok, but its more fun goading feminists. Thats just one piece of paper written by a hotel…boring

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            Not necessarily. The most fun is actually goading religious extremists.

      • Mike Hunt

        Feminism has caused many men’s issues, obviously. Deny it all you want, it’s true.

        Feminism as a political movement is based on the hatred and destruction of men, because it believes in the patriarchy fantasy.

        • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

          No, it isn’t. I’m sorry that you think it is, but it really isn’t.

          • Teflon Expat

            Then feminists need to clean up its house as that is what the nation believes. And outside of feminist circles, no one has heard of patriarchy nor would they believe it.

          • Mike Hunt

            Yes it is. I’m sorry you think it isn’t, but it really is.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            And you know it is because?

          • Mike Hunt

            And you know is isn’t because?

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            Because I actually pay attention to things like the news, history, etc.

      • RubberPunch

        Because feminists provide legitimacy to the discrimination against men, and allow oppression to appear to be progression.

        Feminist are the Cheer Leaders of oppression.

      • http://www.avoiceformen.com John Narayan

        Both actually.

        • Teflon Expat

          Got to have fun with your progress

  • Arakiba

    lmao, send these Taliban wannabes to Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia for their conference! These manchildren need to learn that not every bad thing that’s ever happened to them was caused by women – and that blaming all their problems on women is the most unmanly thing they could do. Real men take responsibility for themselves. These people (who the Southern Poverty Law Center considers a hate group on par with the neonazis) will have to find another place to idolize Elliot Rodger and Anders Brievek.

    • coltov mocktail

      Your lies and innuendo could not be more in error. Of course, smearing a group seeking to unearth problems that people like you would better have left swept under the rug must scare the beejesus out of you. Otherwise you’d leave them alone to have their discussion (which entails absolutely none of the baseless accusations you make).

    • Teflon Expat

      And their meeting and talking is a problem because?

    • RubberPunch

      To cite Aidan Rankin:

      Islamic fundamentalism is merely the most fearsome expression to date of a worldwide upsurge in militant identity politics.

      Feminism has more in common with Taliban than the MHRM.

      Real men don’t care what a real man is.

    • http://www.motorcitymuckraker.com/ muckraker_abby

      Please refrain from name-calling.

    • http://www.avoiceformen.com John Narayan

      Actually most of us are atheists.

  • Jack Ramsey

    Well, there go some dollars that would have been spent in Detroit.

    • Teflon Expat

      Detroit expects to get those dollars and the city will.

      • Guest

        Hahaha.. Going to spend all that money when Esmay can’t afford to fix his tooth? Pardon me while I don’t shed any tears for that $1.50.

  • http://www.angryharry.com/ Angry Harry

    Professor receiving death threats from feminists and their poodle boys …

    http://www.harrysnews.com/esConcealmentandDistortion.htm

  • Teflon Expat

    Next time feminists, pick on someone with your own aptitude level. And actually win!

  • Mike Hunt

    Excuse me, but your misandry is showing.

  • http://rickladd.com Rick Ladd

    Perhaps the boys could join forces with all the poor, oppressed white people so they can afford an entire fleet of whaaaambulances.

    • Mike Hunt

      Nothing sexier than a snivelling male feminist ooozing white male guilt.

      Yummy.

      • muckraker_steve

        Mike, please refrain from the personal attacks.

        • Mike Hunt

          Okay, I won’t make anymore.

          • muckraker_steve

            Appreciate it. Trying to keep the dialogue from spinning into a name-calling fest.

          • Kimski

            And doing a good job of it.
            Appreciated, thanks.

    • Roger The Alien

      Hey look, its a self-loathing white man… don’t see that much these days…

  • Teflon Expat

    C’mon. Big round of applause for the greatest feminist anti-feminist showdown display in US history!

    • muckraker_steve

      So you guys are throwing in the towel and not holding the conference at another hotel?

      • Teflon Expat

        That was just last week up through today. The likelihood of the feminists continuing after having you know what handed to them is small.

        • muckraker_steve

          I’m confused. Does that mean the conference will not be moved to another hotel?

          • Teflon Expat

            Yes, the show will go on.

          • Guest

            How does Teflon Expat know? Is that Elam?

          • Teflon Expat

            You want it to go on. What else would you be doing in two weeks?

  • JuwanM

    Hey Steve, I dont think they are denouncing the severity of rape. What they are saying is that there are instances where no rape has occured .
    An example would be what happened at Ohio State University
    http://antifeministsite.blogspot.com/2013/11/false-rape-at-ohio-state-university.html

    • Teflon Expat

      Rape happens if a woman feels that is what happened. Any dissent gets you a protest march, apparently.

    • Kimski

      Yeah, expand your horizon, Steve:

      http://falserapesociety.blogspot.dk/

    • Guest

      Indeed, a question my stickers ask all parents.

    • http://www.avoiceformen.com John Narayan

      Indeed.

      • Mike Hunt

        You act as though you’ve proven something.

        How does a sticker educating people on the REALITY of false rape accusations in anyway denounce the severity of rape?

        It doesn’t. And if you think it does, you’re an idiot.

        What does minimize the severity of rape is the watering down of the word to apply to consensual, but drunk sex in which the man is somehow a rapist and the women is always the victim even when they are both drunk. Huh? How is it that women lose their agency and responsibility after drinking and yet men do not?

        Just one of the many truly heinous and misandrist double standards that have been created and promoted by feminism.

        But it’s AVFM that’s somehow watering down the severity of rape? I think not.

        • http://www.avoiceformen.com John Narayan

          Will your son be next Mike? Or you?

          • Mike Hunt

            No sons at this point, happily married and not important enough to be framed like Assange.

          • Mike Hunt

            Huh?

      • http://www.libertariancomment.com/ Glenn

        Hey, fucknutz. They banned me over at AVFM, lol. Disagreeing with the mighty Elam and laughing at their ideas seems to be enough. Some “human rights movement” – freedom of speech isn’t even respected. You are not helping men out – look at the reaction here. You and they only make us bigger targets, but you won’t get it.

        • http://www.avoiceformen.com John Narayan

          burk, kaark, burk karrk.

        • http://www.avoiceformen.com John Narayan

          I am sure you can go find your narcissistic supply some ware else then.

          Bye.

  • JuwanM

    They look like the same protesters who were against integration in schools.

    • Teflon Expat

      Yes, the blockade of the hotel was next. Thats a fact. They would have loved for the national guard to come out. But alas, none of this shall happen. ta ta feminists.

    • Stephen Jones

      Holy crap, you’re right… white, middle class, mostly women; you could put those photos side by side and other than the fashions, they’d look like the same demo!

      • Teflon Expat

        At least the fashions back then made them look marriage worthy

        • Stephen Jones

          Awww, now that’s just mean ;)

    • driversuz

      Essentially they are. Bigotry is bigotry and it always has been.

  • Roger The Alien

    Feminists suppressing free speech? Noooo, that can’t be!

    /Dripping with sarcasm

    • Teflon Expat

      Only speech that ‘upsets’ them.

      • Roger The Alien

        “YES! We can!”

        …until you say something that hurts our feelings or challenges our delicate sensibilities.

        • Teflon Expat

          And its ALL ABOUT FEELINGS. All this nonsense over a bunch of butt-hurt feelings. Even the people at the hotel, workers and guests said that the ‘protesters’ feelings were hurt.

    • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

      I’m pretty sure that the same Amendment that gives you the right to say what you want gives feminists the right to protest and petition against it. It’s a funny thing the First Amendment. It guarantees rights to both sides of this argument.

      • Teflon Expat

        But there is no assurances that such protests and petitions won’t get turned in loose runny eggs all over your faces. Which is exactly what happened.

        • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

          Hmm. You think that feminists will be embarrassed if the conference happens. Heh, no. We might feel embarrassed for MRAs, who continue to spout vitriol about anyone and everyone, but that’s all the embarrassment we’ll feel.

          • Teflon Expat

            The embarrassment was this past Saturday.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            I don’t remember any feminists saying there was any embarrassment over that protest. I do remember some saying that MRAs tried harassing an old woman.

          • Teflon Expat

            What those protesting feminists say is meaningless

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            To you.

          • Teflon Expat

            And the nation.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            Not to feminists. Not to people who are too afraid to speak out against injustice, but are proud to see others do so. And I don’t remember there being a big old poll about what the nation thought of that protest, did you? So, how do you know that the whole of the country thinks it was embarrassing?

          • Teflon Expat

            Word is getting out now via dozens of press releases. happy happy

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            Uh-huh. Sure.

      • David Mora

        But that Amendment doesn’t cover the death threats and threats to pull fire alarms to disrupt such conventions, both of which have been occurring as a part of the “protests and petitions”.

        • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

          And did I mention any of that in my post? No. Did I justify it? No. Would I? No.

          • Kimski

            And yet you support a feminism that does the above.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            You’re assuming that because I support feminism that I support terrorism. That’s like saying all Muslims support extremist elements. I will defend feminism, but I won’t defend extremism. And if you wish to suggest that I do, then that just means that you’re suggesting something that’s untrue.

          • Kimski

            What you’re doing here is called a NAFALT-argument, as in Not All Feminists Are Like That.

            Please explain why that has any validity as an argument, at all, when ENOUGH feminists are exactly like that?
            And I’m not assuming anything here. I prefer to let their actions over the past 5 years speak for themselves.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            No, what I’m doing is saying that extremists are not representative of the whole in any group.

          • Teflon Expat

            Like Elliot Rodger?

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            Possibly. Depends on who we’re comparing him to: men, PUAs & anti-PUAs, misogynists, residents of California, luxury car owners? Which group?

          • Teflon Expat

            He was a lone wolf, end of story. Thats how America sees it.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            Not really. I would say that the prevalence of the #yesallwomen and other hashtags show that most Americans recognized him as a misogynistic douchenugget.

          • Teflon Expat

            Very few follow such hashtags. The propaganda didn’t work no matter how desperate feminists were to paint him as such. One out of 100 people probably cant tell you what a misogynist is. Oh well

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            Worldwide trends that make it into stories by Time or end up on the evening news are not really well-known?

          • Teflon Expat

            If the Rodgers story keeps getting told the way feminists want it to, sure. But that ended weeks ago. The word misogyny is rarely spoken outside of feminists circles. Thats the end of that

          • Kimski

            Ok, so how do you judge feminist women based on the #KillAllMen and #YesAllWomen hashtags?
            Careful now, it’s a trap…

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            #KillAllMen is one I never supported and have found disgusting when anyone uses it, even jokingly. Now, on websites like Tumblr, I have noticed that the vast majority of #KillAllMen posts are actually posted by people complaining about them.

            Most feminists that I saw using #YesAllWomen were actually talking about being harassed and raped, but were not talking about every single man being a rapist or a harasser. Most were talking about an abusive situation that they have been in. For that I was empathetic. Most were able to distinguish their abusers from all men, but were told that simply expressing that they had been abused meant that they hated men. For that reaction, I was confused as to why people thought that it was an automatic judgment of all men.

          • Kimski

            Perhaps because that’s basically the only way men are portrayed in all media, when they’re not portrayed as bumbling idiots. It’s systemic nowadays, you know? Feminism has indeed come a long way. Some would say far enough now.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            And perhaps there’s also a flaw with how women are portrayed as being either cold prudes or slutty morons. Media has a way of tearing women down, too.

          • coltov mocktail

            we need prudes and slutty morons too. it takes all kinds

          • Teflon Expat

            The former for wives and the latter to remind you to go find a wife later

          • Chris Mackney

            “#YesAllWomen were actually talking about being harassed and raped, but
            were not talking about every single man being a rapist or a harasser.”

            Sorry, what do these uh ‘experiences’ you refer to have to do with Elliot Rodger? Did they know each other? So he did have a lot of friends (female ones too!)!

            Oh, I get it. Want an excuse for attention? Want to make it all about your vagina? Easy. Just pretend this Santa Barbara thing is about YOUR experiences and that YOU KNEW! there were a lot more Elliot Rodgerses out there, but they just didn’t listen!

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            Elliot Rodger went on a killing spree because he believed he was entitled by the nature of his gender to have sex with any woman he wanted. He felt that this was reasonable thinking.

            The women who posted on #YesAllWomen had had encounters with men like him, which does not mean all men or even most men, who felt that because of their gender that they were somehow allowed to harass and/or rape women. It wasn’t a cry for attention, despite what you seem to believe.

          • Chris Mackney

            To repeat:

            http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/utah-mom-killed-newborns-couldn-remember-dead-babies-garage-police-article-1.1777762

            This woman felt entitled by her special place of Feminist non-agent, controlled by her HORMONES to take the lives of 7 , that is SEVEN fucking children. She is one of yours, whether you like it or not.

            Check.And.Mate.Again.

          • coltov mocktail

            how does the term “misogynistic” not de-emphasize and dehumanize the majority of his victims which happen to be men?

          • Chris Mackney

            Oh, I know!

            Because when we group his male victims as females then it is YYYOOOUUU who is denigrating females. What is wrong with them being females? It is like when the patriarchy calls guys girly men because of their hypermasculine idealses! What is wrong with being girly, huh!? You chauvinist pig – can’t even let us pretend ALL the victims were female because of his misogyny!

            /sarcasm.

          • coltov mocktail

            i’m happy to let them pretend all they want. just don’t get all whacked out when someone doesn’t share the pretension,

          • Kimski

            Have you seen the demonstrations at the Canadian Universities during the past couple of years? Plenty of extremists there, from what I’ve seen on Youtube. Actually, most of them fit into that category.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            Assuming that I support them because they happen to be on YouTube…big jump.

          • Kimski

            No, assuming you support them because of their gender politics.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            Still, it’s an assumption that you’re making based upon a label that I use that you associate with particular actions.

          • Kimski

            No, not particular actions. Current, historical and ONLY actions, as a matter of fact.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            Okay, maybe I should phrase it this way:

            I call myself a feminist.
            You associate feminism with terrorism.
            I associate feminism with equality.
            You think that because I call myself a feminist that I support terrorism and that I am actually a terrorist.
            I tell you over and over that I’m not a terrorist, nor do I associate with terrorists or support them in any way.
            You continue to suggest that i am in fact a terrorist or support it.
            I keep telling you no, I’m not.
            You keep suggesting yeah I’m actually a terrorist.
            I point out that it is ridiculous to associate my beliefs with terrorism and you continue to, calling actions of people that I don’t even know proof/facts that show I’m a terrorist.
            I look at you with a look of haughty derision for being an exasperating internet troll.

            Are we on the same page now?

          • Kimski

            And yet feminism has a long history of threats of violence, bombthreats, vandalism, arson, murder, etc.etc.etc.
            How can I possibly come to any other conclusion in light of these facts? And, mind you, I haven’t been subjugated to Women’s Studies 101, because I frankly couldn’t tell the difference between communism, fascism, and nazi ideology, when I looked into it’s history.
            They all have one common denominator: The hatred of someone else, on which the blame for all wrongs are placed, so it’s supporters are free from responsibility of any kind, even of their own lives and actions.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            Again…assumptions. I’ve never actually taken a Women’s Studies class either. Look we have something in common right there. Maybe we should be best buds. Oh, wait. No, we shouldn’t.

            I could explain the differences between feminism, communism, fascism and Nazi ideology for you, but I’m guessing that you probably wouldn’t even believe that.

            Don’t MRAs also place of their blame on a group that they hate: women/feminists/men who ally with or identify as feminists? Isn’t it sort of hypocritical to deem feminism as Nazi-like for that, but not also deem the MRM Nazi-like for the same type of behavior?

          • Kimski

            Oh, I get it! You’re one of those convenience/Latte-feminists, that has bought the propaganda hook, line, and sinker, without actually bothering to look into the kind of ideology you support. Well, that explains it.
            Ok, let me enlighten you with some examples of what the REAL agenda of your ideology is:

            http://agentorangefiles.com/

            Why don’t you look through the provided material here?
            And before you come back and attempt another NAFALT-argument, do take the time to look closer at the POSITIONS in society these women hold. They’re in perfect positions to change the gender laws to suit THEIR agenda, but need your vote to do it, without actually informing you about what your vote is being used for.

            And, no, best buds would probably be out of the question. People that deprive you of your illusions are generally not liked very much. Let’s just say you owe me one, and have a nice day.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            Is your whole life based on making quick assumptions on people? Taking a women’s studies class isn’t the only way to learn about a history of injustice. I was a Social Work major.

          • coltov mocktail

            so, social work major, is the history of injustice a trajectory or an oozing and puddled morass?

          • Chris Mackney

            As an atheist, I can spot religious people (of ANY denomination) pretty quickly.

            As an afeminist I can do pretty much the same.

            Are modern Christians responsible for atrocities in its name of its past? Of its contemporaries? Of its ‘sister’ religions?

            YOU.BET.YOUR.ASS.

            Do you know why? Because they continue to hold onto the same baseless assumptions and do not call the others out. Or pretend to turn over a new leaf. In short, they EXCUSE them.

            All of this is true of your feminism. Misandry is default. Misogyny is the PROJECTION and in some cases the self-fulfilling prophesy of that projection. Can belief systems and ideologies fuck with people’s heads? Of course and that is all feminism is. A useless, projecting, perpetual self-pitying religion.

          • collaboration

            How is Janet expressing her belief NAFALT? You would rather use the childish generalisation ‘NAFALT than actually believe that what Janet is telling you firsthand is true. That’s why we still need feminism, right there. Because NAFALT.

          • Kimski

            C’mon, you speak of being childish while being perfectly aware of the fact, that ANY dissent I could possibly express would have led you right to the conclusion to which you arrived: “That’s why we still need feminism”.
            The fact of the matter is that it’s not what I said or which means of argumentation I use, but the very fact that I don’t support your ideology, and openly expresses my contempt for it.

          • Chris Mackney

            They think Lewis’ Law is so clever. Little do they realize it says much more about them than it does us.

          • coltov mocktail

            sexism is dead in my mind. if it’s dead in yours too, you don’t need feminism. you need an equal opportunity to pursue your potential regardless of your physical attributes, beliefs or economic standing.

          • Chris Mackney

            “How is Janet expressing her belief NAFALT”

            Wake up. *belief* is the problem.

          • Chris Mackney

            Well go ahead and disown them already. Nobody is stopping you.

            Let me help you out: if you say they had legitimate complaints and tactics, or were somehow necessary, you failed at disowning them.

            Look, it ain’t that hard sweetie. Nobody is asking you to go back in time and put on a security uniform and carry a baton and hold the feminist line back. All you have to do is condemn their actions. Publicly. From the comfort of your own home on the internet. Short of that, guess what? YOU SUPPORT THEM.

            You know the old cliche “Actions speak louder than words”? I just changed it: “Actions say EVERYTHING, words say nothing.”

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            I actually have said that I don’t support that kind of action many times, but if you would like for me to play the villain, then go ahead and paint me as such.

          • Stephen Jones

            “No, what I’m doing is saying that extremists are not representative of the whole.”

            I agree with you, Janet. I have and will continue to speak out against traditionalists and misogynist who occupy the fringe of the MRM, just as I vocally oppose the gender supremacists and eugenics minded people who occupy the fringe of the feminist movement.

            We should be allies, you and I, but I suspect you view me as an opponent.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            No, you actually sound pretty logical and seem really respectful.

          • Stephen Jones

            I am… really, I am!
            But because of my association with the MRM, I meet with huge opposition. And when people try to silence my voice because of that association, they are silencing a voice *opposed* to traditionalism.
            I’m not alone, there are a lot… and I mean A LOT of men’s rights advocates who share my mindset.
            It’s like this:
            people of my generation were raised in a Marlo Thomas ‘Free to Be, You and Me” environment.
            We rejected societally enforced gender roles, we rejected traditionalism. And we embraced the women’s rights movement and feminism.
            We believe feminism was a safe place to escape traditionalism. But when some of us started facing hardships, and we thought the feminist space was somewhere we could discuss our hardships, we were told there was no room for issues facing men and boys within a feminist space… sometimes even telling us that by bringing those issues forward we were “oppressing women” or “silencing womens voices”.

            We were told that as men, we had the whole world outside of feminism to discuss our issues.
            … but that world is the traditionalism we had already rejected. We had been there, and we knew that was not a place open to our ideas.
            So, we set to creating our own space.
            But right away, feminism rallies to oppose that, to categorize it as misogynist and hateful… maybe even dangerous.

            Now, taking all of that into account, is it any wonder when some of those men become anti-feminist?

            For the record, I’m not one of those. I refuse to engage in blanket anti-feminism, I know too many lovely, equity minded men and women who self identify as feminist for that.

          • driversuz

            Yes they are. They are the ones who lobby for the misandrist laws that the rest of you feminists support.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            What misandrist laws do you think I support now, sweetie?

          • driversuz

            did you lobby against VAWA? How do you feel about rape shield laws?

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            1. As a person who has very little actual influence on the political system, I would say that I never do any sort of lobbying.

            2. I supported the Senate version of the VAWA, which was the one that eventually passed, over the House version. It was the more inclusive bill, and extended coverage to more victims of violence–including members of the LGBTQ community.

            3. I am for rape shield laws because I do not believe that the victim of a rape’s sexual history has any bearing on that person being sexually assaulted by another person or group of people.

            None of these are misandrist things, though.

            For example, after the passage of the VAWA, rates of domestic violence against men decreased. And, it’s worth noting that VAWA’s 2013 (more-inclusive Senate version) reauthorization expanded coverage to men who wouldn’t have been covered under the proposed House bill.

            It is also worth noting that rape shield laws can also protect the sexual histories of male victims, as well.

            I don’t really see how advocates for men would view laws that help and protect men as being misandrist.

          • driversuz

            Oh please.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            Which part are you having problems with, Suzy? That I don’t call myself a lobbyist or that I supported a bill that helps male victims of rape and domestic violence?

          • driversuz

            Oh yay for you! VAWA now spends a leeeetle bit of money on men, after two decades of sending them to jail and leaving children with abusive mothers. so good of you to support that. You are clueless.

          • driversuz

            Women commit 80% of child abuse. There is no Violence Against Children Act because feminists will not permit the federal government to finance the wholesale prosecution of violent women. Women commit 45% of IPV. 73% of IPV is MUTUAL, and of that 73%, 75% is instigated by the female partner. The arrest and prosecution rates do not reflect that reality because VAWA doesn’t finance the prosecution of violent offenders who attack men. that falls to the local taxpayers, and prosecuting violent women is a good way for a DA to lose his or her job. The DOJ, thanks to feminists “consultants,” defines rape so that if a woman forces a man to have sex against his will, it’s NOT rape at all, but merely sexual assault. There are still almost NO DV shelters for men (and yes there is a demand for them.)

            And you have the unmitigated gall to BRAG that you support “a bill that helps male victims of rape and domestic violence?” You are either utterly ignorant or a depraved hypocrite.

          • driversuz

            I guess MCM didn’t like the stats in my response, so you bigots just enjoy your little circle jerk.

          • Kimski

            Aww, crap, Suz. You beat me to it! lol

          • Teflon Expat

            The NAFALT feminist think its time to bee atch slap their off-the-deep-end sisters and get the ‘movement’ back on track

          • collaboration

            Because the made up term NAFALT is definitely a logical argument, it must be because AVFM says so. When you say NAFALT you are really saying all feminists are like that. How about if I say all men interested in the rights of men are ‘like that’. Are you all one person who think in exactly the same way and agree with anything that any men’s rights supporter said ever?

          • Kimski

            Ok, you’re obviously not the fastest bike on the road, so I’ll try to explain it as s-l-o-w-l-y as I can, okay?
            It doesn’t matter if all feminists are not like that, when ENOUGH feminist are like that, get it?
            As in, -it only takes a limited amount of radical ideologues to lobby for a change in the legislative process, and thereby further laws that benefit one gender over another, continously.
            Just like NOW has continued to lobby AGAINST shared parenting for years, without informing the average feminist on the street about their actions, which are in fact NOT to the benefit of women overall.
            And they’re only capable of doing this because you keep supporting them, based on the assumption that feminism is about equality, get it now?

          • collaboration

            I’m not the fastest bike on the road? I don’t base my argument on ridiculous terms like NAFALT. Because I am not 12 and I am interested in solutions not insulting people. Many feminists believe absolutely that men should have equal parenting rights. But hey. NAFALT eh?

          • Kimski

            Hey, cupcake, if you can’t take it, then don’t dish it out. I continued in exactly the same path you had laid out with your previous comment.

          • collaboration

            Cupcake? Seriously you are quote for quote AVFM. Have you ever thought of having a genuine conversation with a feminist in your own words?

          • Kimski

            And again you refuse to deal with the issues in the comment I made. You’re looking for solutions like I’m looking for a radical feminist to marry.

          • collaboration

            Oh. You want me to deal with issues that are affecting men unequally? Please tell me why I would expect a rational transaction from someone who has called me ‘cupcake’ and ‘not the fastest bike on the road’ ?

          • Kimski

            Good point. ;)
            Maybe we should just leave it at that.

          • Chris Mackney

            I saw what you did there.

          • coltov mocktail

            good for you. then you support the free and unfettered discussion of the topics listed on the conference’s slate?

          • driversuz

            Have you marched against it yet? Neither has one single other feminist.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            I haven’t marched against anything ever.

          • Mike Hunt

            Finally some truth from you! I’m pretty sure the only place you march is to the refrigerator.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            Where’s all the fat-shaming come from, Mike?

          • Mike Hunt

            Nowhere in particular. Just tired of trying to reason who brain-washed ideologues, it’s futile so my patience wears thin.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            Then just quit responding. Continuously calling me fat or making fun of that particular aspect of me is not appropriate. It doesn’t help your movement to name-call.

          • Chris Mackney

            He thought you were a guy.

            Changes everything, doesn’t it?

          • Chris Mackney

            Nor even spoken out against it in virtual anonymity, in written word, deep in a very minor comment thread of a very minor article of a very minor publication.

            My props to you. We will never forget your sacrifices and your courage and boldness and most of all….ORIGINALITY.

            /sarcasm.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            Ah, yes, because the only place I’ve ever talked about it is on here.

          • Chris Mackney

            Again with your solipsism and narcissism.

            Do you follow me around the internet, hanging on my every word, waiting to swoon?

            And yet, you expect this very thing of me for you.

            Feminism is dead. It is a zombie philosophy at this point.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            No, but you continue throw assumptions about my character based upon this brief interaction. Since you keep doing that, I will keep pointing out how these assumptions are far from the truth.

          • Chris Mackney

            That is because they would be ex-feminist!

          • Chris Mackney

            And by golly, like magic, your hands are clean!

            Congrats.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            Oh, goody. Do I get to blame you for things that extremists on your side have done?

          • Chris Mackney

            Sure. If you can find them.

            Hint: No Eliot Rodgerses.

            Ooops. Too late.

            Now for the real fire:

            This woman is the leader of the Feminist Movement. She thinks exactly the same way that feminists think:

            http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/utah-mom-killed-newborns-couldn-remember-dead-babies-garage-police-article-1.1777762

            Check. And. Mate.

            You lost this argument a long time ago.

      • Roger The Alien

        Difference is, you don’t see men trying to censor people. You don’t see them leading campaigns to ban words like “bossy”. You don’t see men picketing or protesting against feminist conventions either.

        • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

          I just see men who complain every time the topic of feminism comes up. I see men who say a woman can’t have an opinion if she’s a slut or if she’s too fat or if she doesn’t want to date them. I see men who make videos about being “nice guys” and how women deserve to suffer for things that aren’t their faults. I see rape threats and death threats any time that women post about histories of abuse. That’s what I see from the MRAs.

          • Roger The Alien

            Yeah, I don’t know why so many men react poorly to feminists. It’s not like they are told they are all raping sexist, dead-beat dads who should speak in tones only strong women layout for them. And if they’re white, oh boy, look out; that means they are over-privileged have no place to debate anything.

            “I see rape threats and death threats any time that women post about histories of abuse.”

            Funny. I keep hearing feminists vloggers claim they are threatened with rape, but I’ve never actually seen these threats myself. You would think they would show the world that patriarchy is closing in on them and oppressing their speech, but alas, no such luck.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            That’s funny. Most feminists don’t claim that about men. Most feminists actually support men’s issues. I know I’ve personally never called all men rapists or said they were all dead-beat dads or anything like that, but I’ve had MRAs call me a whore and say I was stupid or that I deserved to be locked in a hospital and lobotomized because I happened to express that I was a feminist or that another woman was not a slut or that I happened to have a particular issue that they were talking about. Just for expressing that sort of thing. And I have proof. I’ve reported it when it’s happened, too. But, hey, I’m just a feminist so I have to be lying, right?

          • driversuz

            Oh thank God! Not all feminists are like that! Too bad almost all feminists support the policies of the feminists who are.

          • Roger The Alien

            I didn’t say most. Your outspoken members have, though. And they continue to do so and go largely unchallenged.

            People like Rebbecca Watson and Melody Hensley have successfully made a mockery of your cause by using such tactics, and have not received criticism by their group, but were defended and given accolades.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            I don’t even know who those people are. They must not be all that outspoken.

          • Roger The Alien

            You must not pay much attention to your own movement. They are both very well known and have been in and out of the press because of their non-sense.

            Melody Hensley is the Executive Director Center for Inquiry and Rebbecca Watson is founder of the Skepchick blog…

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            Big movement=lots of people. We don’t all know one another. We don’t all pay attention to every single person in the movement.

          • Roger The Alien

            I have to call bullshit.

            Either you aren’t as involved as you claim to be or you are deliberately lying about your knowledge of them.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            I’m quite involved in the movement and I’m not lying. Do you know every single person who uses the MRA Reddit or that comments or blogs on AVFM or who does the whole Return of Kings scene? Probably not. And I wouldn’t expect you to.

          • Roger The Alien

            You expect me to believe that you quite involved in the movement but you never heard of elevatorgate or Melody’s meltdown and claim the she suffers from PTSD from twitter? Again, I call bullshit.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            As I don’t have a propensity for lying to strangers and believe in giving the benefit of the doubt, yes.

          • Betty P Wiggins

            I’ve never heard of either of those and I’m a lifelong feminist. It may be that feminists are too busy trying to help women to lurk twitter for things which upset MRAs.

            If the MRA movement did the same and actually addressed the (male created) socioeconomic systems most men are oppressed by, they would be known as a progressive movement and not a reactionary one.

            Speaking of which: you’ve never heard of that your movement is for the legalization of marital rape?

          • Roger The Alien

            Oh you’re another one here who so “involved” yet ignorant to what goes on in your movement?

            Yeah, I can’t take anything you have to say seriously.

          • Mike Hunt

            Or you must be an wilfully ignorant liar.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            Ignorant and liar…two words that always manage to endear me towards someone.

          • Mike Hunt

            Lucky for me I am not seeking to endear myself to a hate-monger like you.

            That’s why I also have no issue pointing out that you are an obese and hideously ugly loser, which is probably where your anger and desire to censor and silence men comes from.

            Feminist: “SHUT UP AND STOP SILENCING ME!”

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            Really? Resorting to insults based upon a person’s body? Nice. I actually am not an angry person and don’t feel the desire to censor or silence men. I like men. I adore them, actually. Men are wonderful. I just don’t like the majority of MRAs that I have encountered on the internet–and that includes the female ones. But, if it makes you feel better to tear me down in this way for my opinion, then that’s on you. Not me.

          • Mike Hunt

            You don’t like facts that contradict your religion. We get it.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            Where did that even come from?

          • http://www.motorcitymuckraker.com/ muckraker_abby

            If you insist upon personal attacks, you will be banned. You will see this policy being applied to both sides of the discussion. Please stick to the issues.

          • Mike Hunt

            “Most feminists actually support men’s issues.”

            HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

            And already we’re on to the jokes!

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            And now your bigotry is showing.

          • Chris Mackney

            And your projection is showing.

          • Betty P Wiggins

            Feminists have been indicting the patriarchal roles of masculinity and the socioeconomic systems created by men under which 99.9% of men suffer for over a century.

            MRAs don’t take issue with these, just with women organizing to fight women’s subjugation.

          • Mike Hunt

            Except no.

          • librtee_dot_com

            Sure, Feminism supports some men’s issues. But here’s the key point: they support them as a byproduct of supporting women’s issues.

            On any men’s issues where women are not also affected, you can hear crickets over from the Feminist aisle. Combine this with the fact that men simply aren’t welcome within Feminism, and saying that Feminism is an effective vehicle to tackle male specific issues is just a non-starter.

            As to the last statement – I’m not saying you’re a liar, I’m sure you’ve had all sorts of abuse thrown at you online, most people have…my question is, how do you know the people you were talking with were even MRAs at all (they could have been, just asking how you know)? Where did this happen?

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            Let’s see:

            The comment about lobotomies was from AVFM writer Jason Gregory on Twitter. It happened on May 29. “Just zap them silly and scramble their brains like a soup. Or, do an old fashiond lebotomy on them.” and “Best thing is to dope and lock them so that all they can do is drool on themselves and are not able to hurt others.” He called me a “crazy asshole” when he found out I was Borderline.He also said, “Women with ‘borderline personality disorder’ who ‘attempt suicide’ 13x are the ones who misrepresent suicide” and “scratching your wrist with a paperclip and calling 911 rescue for your ‘attempted suicide’ is a different ‘method’”–these referred to my bringing up my mom’s suicide attempts. They were all overdoses. (The last attempt was where she used a a whole bottle of Xanax and Zyprexa and half a bottle of Risperdal, but all were similar half/whole bottle-multiple medication attempts. And the 911 call came from my dad who was at work who happened to call after she’d overdosed. I don’t think she’s ever called for herself.) But the reason for that one was that I simply responded with “More men die from suicide, but 3x’s more women attempt suicide than men. It’s the choice in method that causes the deaths.” to another AVFM writer (Kristal Garcia) who had said that “#yesallwomen would rather be hateful than recognize men are 4x more likely than women to commit suicide. Way to slam your fellow human.” My comment wasn’t meant to detract from her comment, but to say that we as a society need to recognize that there are a lot of people in pain who are going untreated. Anyway, it ended badly and the tweets by Jason got liked by Kristal and by Hannah Wallen (another AVFM writer) and retweeted by others. After Garcia promoted the idea that I was being a bigot for saying any of this, Nephanor, an AVFM user, told me that I shoud “Try actually being suicidal, then talk.” I have many of the encounters from that night and that weekend up in a gallery at http://fuzzypinkslippers.com/2014/06/01/the-hatred-of-feminism-is-strong-with-them/. Almost 30 screen shots of it. None have been altered to make me look good or them look bad.

          • Chris Mackney

            “I know I’ve personally never called all men rapists or said they were all dead-beat dads or anything like that,”

            That is funny, because I have never seen you, Janet Morris, out there reprimanding the majority of feminists who do.

            You are not a real woman (I refer you to one of your comrades above who tried to shame a man in exactly this way). Real women can put their feelings aside and fight for what is right, even if it is as a keyboard warrior. A real woman is a woman who is not threatened at being WRONG (and you are wrong) or threatened by men talking about their own problems or problems women don’t want to talk about.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            That’s funny because I have a feeling you’ve only encountered me on here. I am not threatened by men talking about issues that impact them. I am not threatened by advocating for those things. And I always fight for what’s right, but since I don’t fight for what you like, then I’m guessing that you wouldn’t consider that “right”–would you?

          • Chris Mackney

            Funny that. And you have only encountered men’s rights activists defending themselves against slander and libel in addition to the baseline misandries found in society requiring a men’s conference.

            And you make your judgments about them. See how that works? Your level of self-unawareness is staggering.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            Again, I think you’re assuming that I’m only talking about interacting with MRAs on here. I harassed by self-proclaimed MRAs when I was talking about things my grandfather, who has been dead for almost 20 years, had done. He wasn’t even in the movement and knew none of these people, but he was being defended them. How was what they were doing defending themselves against libel or slander? Or what about when I was harassed for talking about a childhood friend whose father sold her to another family? They didn’t know him, so why did they defend him?

          • Chris Mackney

            And conversely you’ve only encountered ME on here.

            If you are not threatened by these things, then why come on a forum discussing whether men/women have the right (they do) to discuss men’s issues? Instead, you go on and on in this same forum about how it is still about women or you personally or your vagina and why aren’t these things going to be discussed and why aren’t feminists invited and why aren’t you all looking in the mirrors and seeing Elliot Rodgerses and just pulling the trigger right then and there?

            Really?

            You are like a child that has had the last 5000 fucking turns, then complains that you aren’t getting the next one. And you want to lecture ME about privilege and entitlement?

            And it doesn’t even stop there. Society has ALWAYS been gynocentric. That is, “women and children first”. Our movement is not a reaction to feminism. It is a retrofit for it. it is all feminism should have ever been. Instead, look what it has become: “Waaah! I got cat-called! Make me the CEO of Microsoft to compensate me for this unbearable oppression!”

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            Why would I want for an MRA convention to take place? I dunno, perhaps the SPLC warning against the MRM or maybe the past experiences with members of this movement. Perhaps it reminds me of other groups that like to meet and talk about how the greatest evil in the world is some other group, instead of actually talking about working on their problems. I would have no quarrel with the idea of a convention that actually deals with men’s issues, but the vast majority of self-identified (meaning they identified themselves this way) MRAs that I have ever talked to have only focused on bashing feminists, ex-wives/ex-girlfriends, and abuse/rape accusers. If you want to point me to some place where there’s been a great effort to actually improve/change things like custody for fathers or safer work conditions or ending the draft or focusing on men’s health issues to increase the life expectancy rate or any of those conditions that are the MRA agenda, then I will gladly change my opinion of you guys.

            Can I ask you why you’ve brought up my vagina twice? Is that part of your growing up in a gynocentric society, that you have to bring up a vagina?

            As for your little spiel on privilege and entitlement: YOU are the one who said that women who dress in a certain way are doing it to turn YOU on but won’t let YOU have sex with them. I tried pointing out that women AREN’T dressing FOR YOU. If anyone is being entitled, I would think it would be you.

          • Chris Mackney

            Why do you continue to drone on about how women can’t help but dress provocatively?

            Women could dress like a frumpy bitches. I couldn’t care less.

            Feminism is a zombie philosophy, It is dead and hateful and bigoted when implemented.

            If you don’t think that child custody is a problem for men or that false rape accusations is a serious crime that destroys lives, then you are psychopathic.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            You were actually the one who brought up how the sartorial choices of women were made just to flaunt their sexuality in your face. I just continued on it because it seemed to be your thing.

          • Chris Mackney

            You dipshit. I do not possess the ego you presume me to have. YOU DO; ergo you must project.

            NOW GET THIS YOU THICKHEADED WINDBAG: I DO NOT WANT TO HAVE TO PAY ATTENTION TO A FEMALE’S ATTIRE CHOICES. WHAT THIS MEANS IS IF SHE WEARS CLOTHING AND ADOPTS AN ATTITUDE THAT SHE IS IN THE MARKET FOR SEX AND SHE GETS RAPED* BY SOME GUY (NOT ME, YOU FUCKWIT!), I DON’T WANT SHIT TO DO WITH IT.

            AT.

            ALL.

            You would have me get involved over why didn’t I do anything about it and so on and so forth.

            FUCK YOU!

            *I am not a rapist and I do not identify with rapists. And never will.

            **You are a dipshit and you do and will continue to identify with dipshits. And you will continue to project your dipshittery.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            If you don’t want to pay attention to a woman’s clothing choice, then don’t pay attention to it. It’s really that simple. Women are not forcing you to look at their clothes when they wear them. I’m not asking or demanding you get involved in anything. And I never accused you of being a rapist. I never assumed you were one. Why you would think that I think that of you is baffling.

          • Mike Hunt

            No, I imagine that was the truth. You must have said something really stupid though.

          • Mike Hunt

            Then you see exactly what you want to see, according to your bigoted beliefs.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            Hmm you should see who is doing those things you mention Janet.

            http://time.com/107228/women-misogyny-twitter-study-demos/
            Turns out women are just a s guilty as men.
            Doesn’t work very well with the feminist framework does it?

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            Actually slut-shaming of women by women is something that gets talked about by feminists.

          • Teflon Expat

            Because they don’t want men to have wifely choices?

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            But it doesn’t square up with feminist theory of man bad woman good.
            Most likely why there is only talk.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            I don’t know many feminists who have the theory of man bad, woman good. A few, but most of the feminists that I know don’t feel that way. And the reason that slut-shaming by anyone is discussed is that, no matter where it comes from or who it is directed at, it impacts how a person feels about themselves and how society treats them.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            You must not know many feminists. The whole feminist theory hinges on ‘man has oppressed women since time began.’
            You know man the oppressor class and women the oppressed class.
            And there is a simple solution to end slut shamming,, don’t broadcast that you are one.
            That goes for male sluts too.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            I know a good number. Yes, there is discussion by feminists of historical oppression of women. There is also discussion of current oppressive tactics used to keep women in line. That is not the same thing as saying “man bad, woman good”–just, “oppression bad, freedom good”.

            As for slut-shaming, I think it would probably be better for society to not view sex as an activity that determines our worth as a person–male or female. If we quit talking about sex in general, that might make people feel more ashamed for it. Instead, maybe we should talk about it, but not resort to name-calling towards people who have had sex or people who haven’t.

            There are also a lot of people who get slut-shamed who haven’t had sex, but have been judged by members of their community or others of being slutty. Slut-shaming is a tactic used against impoverished persons and against minorities as a way to dehumanize them and legitimize the limiting of rights towards those groups.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            First paragraph here is a thought from a feminist leader;
            “I feel that ‘man-hating’ is an honourable and viable political act,
            that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that
            is oppressing them.” – Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor
            Really puts a crater in your , ‘but we don’t think men are bad’ claim.

            Like I said don’t want to get called derogatory names that are based in sex.
            Don’t broadcast you’ve slept with half the school / company / neighborhood and have the other half on speed dial.
            In regards to those who are slut shamed for not having sex, well maybe women should stop being in competition with each other so much.

            “Feminine Foes: New Science Explores Female Competition

            In the sexual trenches, women’s tenacity and competitiveness rivals men’s”
            http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/insight-therapy/201401/feminine-foes-new-science-explores-female-competition

            Whoops I used science and feminism tells us that’s oppressive, guess they’ll be protesting in the streets of Detroit to have me sent off to the gallows.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            Slut-shaming doesn’t always happen to people who have had had sex.

            “OMG you’ve been fucking since middle school? I guess Ronald McDonald will give you Big Macs for anal.”

            That was the accusation that was leveled at me for advocating for free birth control because I had been on it from the time I was about 12 or 13. I was on it because I have a history of PCOS and menometrorrhagia, which are conditions that are caused not by sexual history, but by things like hormone imbalances and Ehlers-Danlos. I am not a slut. I’ve never talked about doing anything slutty, but this person decided that he would call me a whore and then encourage his friends to do the same because I stood up for a particular issue that he didn’t agree with.

            Really puts a crater in your theory that slut-shaming is a result of sexual behavior.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            You’ll notice I covered both scenarios. I guess with your ideological blinders on you missed that. (non-virginal and virginal) Sometimes its because a person slept with half the city. Sometimes its for mating competition in which case virgins can be subject to it.
            And that would also cover your scenario of pcos.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            So I got slut-shamed by a guy and his half a dozen friends (only one who was a girl) because of female competitiveness?

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            Did I state it was female only mating competitiveness?
            Or did you assume that?
            Your ideological blinders are showing again.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            It’s not an ideological blinder. The article was on female competitiveness rivaling that of males. It discussed motivations for female competitiveness. That’s not a blinder thing.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            lol so you read the article and it points out male and female competitiveness in mating.
            Correct?
            Then you go on to assume that your situation was due to female competitiveness.
            Not even considering that insulting another might serve to raise a person’s social standing. Which just might raise their mating attributes.
            And this is not me condoning these acts just merely pointing out the obvious.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            The article mainly discusses the drives for women and causes for their competitiveness. There were more mentions of competitiveness of women than of men. The article also discussed the historical and evolutionary basis for the competitiveness. It doesn’t mention how that competitiveness translates to a group of guys on the internet who are probably not going to be hooking up with anyone that they happen to be talking to.

          • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

            So your whole beef about slut shamming is someone on da internez insinuated you were a slut?

            merciful heavens no wonder feminism is in trouble.

            ban bossy, empowering women is rape culture, and killing 4 men and 2 women is misogyny.
            This is modern feminism and it is a sick joke for profit.

          • coltov mocktail

            actually, i’ve “hooked up” after some prolonged vetting of random people with whom I’ve had random discussions on the internet, Slut shaming is bullshit. CAN SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN TO MY POOR FEEBLE MALE BRAIN WHY ANYONE WOULD GIVE A RAT’S ASS IF THEY GOT “SLUT-SHAMED”?

          • Roger The Alien

            Because a feminists are just as strong as men until someone calls them a name. So many of the bloggers and vloggers have proved this…

            When it comes to name calling, the net is the wild west, and strong, able women cannot hack it.

          • Chris Mackney

            Here she goes Danny. Redirecting the narrative to make it all about her and her singular experience. Mykeru’s Law

          • coltov mocktail

            so you bend over expose your butt and say “oh ronald honey, go ahead, put it right there, i can hardly way so these shitheads can go fuck off”.

          • coltov mocktail

            why the fuck would it “probably be better for society to not view” any legal activity any particular way. if you don’t have the balls or you’re not big enough of a cunt to do something – then you better just do some growing.

          • Lisa Ngo

            can i just say that your anecdotal evidence doesn’t really work? we have feminist groups campaigning against the recognition of male rape in india and israel, as well as threatening people who disagree with them–an example being erin pizzey(idk). we also have feminists who have been trying to claim that their movement is for “equality” while also not holding any “walk-a-mile-in-her-shoes”-style events for men and making claims that male issues don’t matter as much. we have feminists trying to make issues that affect both genders, like rape and abuse, into women-only problems. any guys who experience it is an outlier.

            at some point you must admit that your movement is very toxic–or at the very least incredibly divided to the point that almost nobody understands wtf is going on. an example–is it for equality or is it for women? if you say it’s for equality, then what does that make the significant number of feminists who claim it is for women only? it’s far too easy for misandrists and bigots to hide within your ranks these days and thus it’s no wonder that more and more people–like myself–are choosing to dissociate from the feminist label.

          • Roger The Alien

            They’ll never admit their hate. They’ll always claim to be a group that champions for equal rights, but the truth is their cause is perpetuating their own victim-hood through lies and disinformation.

            They’ve hijacked the LBGT movement and they have recently infiltrated Atheism… spreading their lies and toxicity through-out both causes.

          • Lisa Ngo

            i’ve noticed that…the recent trend of saying that homophobia is basically ~misogyny~ is simply disgusting–coming from a possibly bisexual or lesbian woman. i won’t judge individual feminists but…i’m just tired of the hate from both sides i guess.

          • bopeep

            Who has said that? What are you talking about?

          • Lisa Ngo

            there is a definition of “homophobia” out there that says it’s the fear of straight men that gay men will treat them like they do women. which aside from ignoring what happens to lesbians and bisexuals, ignores female homophobes. an example is here: http://aatombomb.tumblr.com/post/20069622455/

          • Roger The Alien

            If it doesn’t fit their narrative, it’s ignored.

            The disgusting part of this post is the fact that the narrator is just as sick as the homophobic because she identifies every man who speaks to her as a possible rapist. That’s as bigoted and demented as believing every black male is going to rob you.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            But, the same can be said for the MRM. There are MRAs who have engaged in false rape reports on campuses. Persons on AVFM have suggested that women who say that they have been raped are usually lying, but men who have been are always telling the truth. There are MRAs who think that a woman who has a sexual history makes her somehow less of a person and are not afraid to go as far to publicly slut-shame them. There are people who regularly claim that anyone with BPD or PTSD or who doesn’t denigrate persons with these disorders is a lying man-hating woman. Does this not suggest that the MRM is also a toxic one? One that provides a breeding ground for an intense hatred and distrust for women that could have potentially damaging social repercussions?

          • Roger The Alien

            Please show me the proof that men have filed false rape reports on college campuses. I am calling shenanigans here, once again.

            The sheer number of women filing false rape reports is a travesty for the simple fact that they face no repercussions for doing so.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris
          • Roger The Alien

            One campus and it was done to make a point on how easy it is for someone to lie about a rape and get another charged; which happens all the time and is ignored by feminists.

          • Auntie Alias

            Campuses don’t charge anyone.

          • Roger The Alien

            Where did I say they could?

            Focus. Stay on topic.

          • Auntie Alias

            No anonymous reports submitted to Occidental College result in disciplinary action let alone criminal charges. Spamming the form certainly didn’t “prove” how easy it is to make false rape accusations that result in criminal charges.

          • Roger The Alien

            I didn’t say there was. I was pointing out the probability.

            You should probably read the article. The school even acknowledged a problem with its current system.

            Male students go to prison for false accusations all the time. Their lives are ruined all while nothing happens to the liars that sent them up stream because their fragile sensibilities were disrupted.

            This should be an issue for everyone. Not only does it persecute innocents but it takes away from actual victims as well. False accusers and those who abed them should face jail time.

          • Auntie Alias

            Oh for pete’s sake. There’s no point my talking to a conspiracy theorist.

          • Roger The Alien

            So men being falsely accused of rape is a conspiracy theory?

            I would ask if you were mentally insane, but you just answered the 5 million dollar question.

          • RubberPunch

            I think there is. Conspiracy theorists will often correctly identity structural problems. It is what they identify as their causes that is a bit far fetched. They will sometimes insert a secret conspiracy where social dynamics is the more likely cause.

            Somewhat opposite of libertarian anarchists that will also correctly identify structural problems, but they get the solutions wrong, not the causes.

            Yeah, well that’s just my opinion man.

          • Kimski
          • Auntie Alias

            I’m not interested in reading that website.

          • Kimski

            Of course you’re not. :D

          • coltov mocktail

            no, they only brand them and expel them

          • Auntie Alias

            If they actually did that maybe there wouldn’t be such a rape epidemic on campuses.

          • coltov mocktail

            Epidemic? Spare me the hyperbole. and, btw, if they didn’t, maybe there wouldn’t be a sudden uptake of lawsuits against universities for doing so without due process and in the face of legal exoneration.

          • coltov mocktail

            i believe that they announced ahead of time that they were going to do that as a campaign to point out how easily a system like that could be abused.

          • Chris Mackney

            But you MRAs must be the same as the hateful feminists I want to continue to ignore because MRAs are criticizing feminism.

            Another tautology.

          • coltov mocktail

            rape is not a gendered problem and AVFM gains little from belittling victims. Please point to the evidence behind your accusations

          • Kimski

            http://falserapesociety.blogspot.dk/

            Look at the numbers, Janet.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            Wow. Blogspot. Hardcore science there.

          • Kimski

            So you didn’t look, right?
            Thought so..

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            If you want to go the route of scholar.google.com, then I’ll look. Or official statistics pages from Interpol or FBI or other law enforcement agencies. Just reading a bunch of news articles about false reports doesn’t give the full picture.

          • Kimski

            No, but they do show a tendency that can’t be disputed, wouldn’t you agree?
            Do you have to know the exact numbers down to single digits, before you’ll take it seriously?
            Because if you do, you must have a hard time swallowing the 1-in-4 claim just like me, am i right?

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            I don’t have to have the exact numbers, but I do think that in order to prove that there is this massive amount of false accusations that there needs to be substantive data behind it.

            And the 1-in-4 claim for women is not something I have a hard time accepting, nor is the 1-in-6 for men. I don’t doubt that the rape and sexual assault rapes are high for college students. And I don’t doubt that there are even more people who have been sexually assaulted, abused, or raped during their lifetime that did not or could not report it.

          • Kimski

            You just prefer we treat that sexual assault problem in a one-sided manner, like spraying water on only one side of a building in hope it will go out, is that it?
            Do the math on the entire population using that 1-in-4 claim, add the 43% of males that also are victims of female on male rape/assault, and then look at the spectacular numbers you come up with.

            Doesn’t it strike you as perculiar, that numbers that high doesn’t show up as a significant factor in any crime statistics, even FBI’s?
            Whereas if you look up the FBI’s stats on false allegations, the numbers are consistently at around 40%, and even as high as 90% in some areas.
            Clearly someone is lying somewhere and who gains the most from lying, considering the already huge amount of government fundings that goes into the women’s victimhood industry, and feminism as a whole?
            Which, btw, is mostly taken out of the male income taxes…!

          • Chris Mackney

            Yes. “How can we go on flaunting our sexuality to those we never intend to give it to and stop criticizing each other for it?”

            WOW. Haven’t heard anything that profound since the Declaration of Independence.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            I don’t think there is anything shameful about sex. If a person has a lot of sex and wants to talk about it, they should be allowed to do so and not be judged for that. If a person doesn’t have a lot of sex or any sex at all, then they should be allowed to talk about that without being judged.

            Now, as for the “flaunting our sexuality to those we never intend to give it to”, it’s rather weird that you consider talking about sexuality or dressing less modestly a flaunting technique or a way to somehow taunt another person. A person’s attitude or way of dressing or personal sexual choices are not necessarily geared toward you and you shouldn’t really expect them to be geared that way. A person may dress or act a certain way because they feel more comfortable. Just as I wouldn’t assume that some guy walking around shirtless or talking about how he got laid was a way to make me feel horny or uncomfortable or his way of flaunting anything, you shouldn’t assume that a scantily clothed woman or a sexually active woman is doing things just to get a rise out of you or make you uncomfortable.

          • Chris Mackney

            “A person’s attitude or way of dressing or personal sexual choices are not necessarily geared toward you and you shouldn’t really expect them to be geared that way.”

            This is so childish as to not even deserve a response, but I will try.

            If I have a truck and a I get an expensive stereo system for it, then I proceed to put the speakers on the OUTSIDE, is that for me? OK, suppose it is for me. Attention or whatever. Then why would I complain about the very attention I am seeking?

            But even this comes NOWHERE near what you are describing to me. What other reason is there to dress provocatively but to ‘provoke’? If you don’t want ME to notice, fine. But you do want SOMEONE to. Why not go out without makeup? Why not invent a line of clothing that is air-conditioned so you can be comfortable but not provocative even on hot days?

            This level of narcissism is so extreme, it can only be labeled hyper-narcissism. It is like you are all bimbos saying “What, this little thang? had no idea it would turn every man into a wild animal!”

            Uh. It didn’t. Nowhere near. You don’t know me but you tried to project the hype you heap on yourself on me.

            You don’t have the faintest fucking clue.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            Actually, I think it would be more narcissistic to think that women dress specifically to flaunt their sexuality in your face.

          • Chris Mackney

            I repeat: Then dress like a frump.

          • coltov mocktail

            look closer and you’ll see men criticizing feminism for its fallacies rather than for women’s right to discuss it. MRAs attempt to engage feminists all the time (like here) on the merits and the facts -you know, what feminist jargon inarticulately refers to as “mansplaining”. Meanwhile, feminist sink lower into slanderous innuendo and go for every paranoid trick in the book to keep from being pinned down on their own assertions. Refuse to grow up and be big girls all you want, you won’t get any special treatment from MRAs for acting that way.

          • librtee_dot_com

            Janet Morris, respectfully, what you have been hearing are not in any way MRAs. I’m not saying they are on the ‘fringes’, I’m saying they are not part of the movement at all.

            MRAs are highly critical of Feminism, but generally aren’t so critical of ‘women’ as a group; the criticism is directed at the specific ideologies that make up ‘Feminism.’

            There is an easy litmus test for ‘is this person an MRA’: Do they spend a majority of their time discussion institutional and cultural issues that affect men (which can include Feminism), do they spend a majority of their time discussing issues and suffering faced by men and boys? If they do, they’re an MRA. If not, they are some other part of the ‘man-o-sphere’.

            For instance, here’s a short list of MRA YouTubers:

            Bane666AU
            GirlWritesWhat
            SargonOfAkkad
            VictorZen

            Just a few off the top of my head. In terms of the objective measurements of pageviews and subscribers, they are the leading MRA voices on YouTube.

            See if you can find any videos where they say anything like that. For that matter, see if you can even find any articles on A Voice For Men or /r/mensrights that echo the sentiments you typed. You’ll be looking a long time.

          • Chris Mackney

            That is our bad, sorry.

            I need some legal advice in a business matter. Could you please direct me to the nearest slut or fatty with an opinion on that?

            And show some backbone too will ya? I am not going to whine if you use the word ‘asshole’ or ‘prick’.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            How about this? Fuck off you selfish son of a bitch. That better?

          • Chris Mackney

            solipsist is projecting solipsist. lol

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            Freud would love your ego.

          • Incubus

            MRAs don’t do those things, and as someone who posted for several years in a Gender Studies forum that was frequented by people from a variety of backgrounds, including feminists, MRAs, traditionalists, and others, I’m convinced that you haven’t done as much research into the MRM as you’re letting on. In gender-related communities, people do sometimes come in and complain about the opposite sex, but only the occasional passerby would mistake them for an MRA because of that. People who are educated about these topics typically know that both MRAs and feminists tend to view those people as strange, and MRAs usually ignore them or tell them not to focus so much on women.

        • Teflon Expat

          Different genetic predisposition

        • Auntie Alias

          AVFM harasses, intimidates and threatens them into silence.

          • Roger The Alien

            Any proof of this or is this another claim that is made without a shred of evidence?

          • Auntie Alias

            Adele Mercier
            Danielle d’Entremont
            Raw Story

          • Roger The Alien

            Links please. You made the claim, it’s your responsibility to back it up.

          • coltov mocktail

            Adele Mercier, that idiot? she’s couldn’t shut up if her life depended on it

          • Auntie Alias

            Who did I slander?

          • coltov mocktail

            more like a what, attributing the AVFM as the cause of Danielle’s facial injuries

          • Auntie Alias

            You’re out of touch with reality.

          • coltov mocktail

            well, your version certainly leaves much to be desired

          • Auntie Alias

            Well, I never said what you claimed I did.

          • coltov mocktail

            you mean your blaming AVFM radio on whatever’s convenient for you?

          • Auntie Alias

            Huh?

          • coltov mocktail

            bullshit. Not being all about bolstering self-esteem for some wickedly fuck’d in the head women isn’t any of the things above. You either open your mouth/start typing and start swinging or go some where to play paddy-cakes.

          • Auntie Alias

            Such a lovely human rights movement.

          • coltov mocktail

            it’s the way some people like to do things

          • Chris Mackney

            Actually, it is the way men *have* to do things.

          • coltov mocktail

            without presumptuousness, critics lose all their bombastic self-righteousness. good luck keeping that fire stoked.

          • Chris Mackney

            Interesting notion. Shaming them for their obvious bigotry to embarrass them to silence themselves!

            “Oh, but she has a vagina” you say. “She must be allowed to keep speaking!”

            Let it go. It worked. Do you really want these walking tampons* to keep embarrassing your already failing femtarded movement?

            *I keed! I keed! Calm down, dude. Go ahead and call me an asshole to get back at me if you like.

        • bopeep

          No, we see men who dox women they don’t agree with (like Register_Her) or threaten them with rape, death, or bodily harm and call them cunts, bitches, whores, cumbuckets, sluts, and more when they write opinions you don’t like.

          • Roger The Alien

            I see women do the same thing. So there’s that.

          • coltov mocktail

            yeah, so what? i see women calling men dicks, tools, losers, creeps, deadbeats, etc when they refuse to see that female anatomy is any more special than male anatomy

          • Chris Mackney

            I can’t get over how pissed I am that they doxxed Hitler. I mean, couldn’t they have at least just kept his whereabouts secret?

            And what about all those people readin’ the paper sayin’ “I hate that Hitler guy”. How come nobody did anything about them? #Hitlershouldnthavebeendoxxed

          • Kimski

            Register-Her is not “doxxing” anyone. The cases in there have all been exposed in the media first, and simply given more exposure.
            Lies, lies, and more damned lies.

        • Betty P Wiggins

          Men don’t try to insert themselves into conversations on women’s oppression and shout down class based materialist analysis?

          LMAO!!!

          • Roger The Alien

            You laugh like a child, but there is more proof of the opposite happening. Anytime MRAs try to meet,angry feminists show up to where ever they are, scream about their mythical patriarchy and try to shut down the event.

            I haven’t seen the opposite. Unless you are equating men wanting to offer their opinions as suppression.

          • Betty P Wiggins

            MRAs are a reactionary movement opposed to women’s liberation and in fact many deny women’s oppression. They’ve campaigned against marital rape laws. I frankly don’t see that women fighting back against oppressive societal forces is comparable to males constantly offering “opinions” on women’s subjugation.

          • Roger The Alien

            All movements are reactionary.

            The rest of your post is non-sense and you know it. No one in the MRA community is opposed to equality. The same cannot be said for feminists, who are mostly made up anti-male self-loathing spoiled white women.

          • Betty P Wiggins

            Also, I’ve never Attended a publicly-known feminist conference or meeting WITHOUT male protestors. They were horribly violent and numerous in the sixties and that died down a bit in recent years until the recent antifeminist reactionism.

          • Roger The Alien
          • Betty P Wiggins

            No not really, except there’s no fat cat female legislator snidely declaring from Capitol steps that men’s liberationists don’t speak for “real” men from her lofty perch in a female created and dominated institution emergent of millenia of sadism against men.

            Was there supposed to be?

          • Roger The Alien

            So, you only see what you want to see? Seems usual from your group.

      • driversuz

        We welcome protests. What we don’t welcome is violence.

        • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

          Hey, Suzy. I’ve missed all those annoying tweets you sent me. Oh, wait. No, I don’t.

      • RubberPunch

        It is not enough to have the State grant human rights, the State must also protect these rights against one groups attempt to prevent another group to enjoy them.

        Otherwise you can have States that officially support human rights, but allow private groups, minorities or majorities, to do any governments dirty work against these rights.

        Without this principle, you can have states granting human rights to the citizens, while mob rule completely eliminate these rights for a subset of the population.

        For that reason both groups have the right to gather and protest, and the rights of both groups should be protected by the state.

        I believe this principle was first established in a UN setting through CEDAW (Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women) in 1995. (The irony etc.)

        • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

          You’re right. The State does have an obligation to protect the rights of different movements, organizations, and types of people. The Petition and the Protests, though, were geared towards challenging a decision by a corporation to host an event. It is not the State that is taking away the ability to hold a conference or denying speech. It is a corporation. Your rights to Free Speech are not guaranteed by private entities. This is why it would be illegal for the government to fire a particular person for expressing a dissenting opinion, but it is perfectly legal for a business to fire someone for doing the same thing.

          • RubberPunch

            I agree, and I believe you’ll find that the organizers of the conference will too.

            It is not the protesting or petitioning that is problematic here, it is threats of violence and death against participants and hotel staff alike.

            The State should protect the conference by providing the necessary force to allow for the conference to continue, and protesters to protest in a safe and orderly manner.

            Otherwise the state sanctions by its passivity the actions of those who wish to suppress citizens freedoms through threat of violence and death (CEDAW principle). On all sides of course.

            Feminist conferences should be protected as well, should there be reason to do so (which there is currently no evidence to support btw).

      • librtee_dot_com

        I fully support your right to come and petition against the conference. Welcome it in fact. MRAs seek dialogue, a one sided dialogue is boring.

        The problem is if you take any efforts to shut it down, pull fire alarms, call in bomb threats, physically prevent attendance, etc. Anything to actually shut down the voices of the panelists.

        As long as you are aware of the importance of the line between the two activities, as long as you respect the value of unobstructed speech to a healthy society, I think I speak for most MRAs when I say your demonstrations are quite welcome.

        • collaboration

          AVFM definitely do not seek dialogue with feminists.

          • Chris Mackney

            There is no such thing as a dialog with feminists. We are realists.

    • LadyBligh

      You have a concept of free speech that has nothing to do with reality.

      The First Amendment only applies to the government suppression of speech. It has nothing to do with putting pressure on a hotel to cancel an event.

      • Roger The Alien

        Where did I cite the first amendment? Nowhere. You are allowing your emotions to over-run your logic.

        Applying pressure to a business to keep a group from convening is silencing that particular group, thus preventing their right to assembly.

        How about allowing the event like others allow your events without picketing, pressuring businesses, and sending death threats?

        • LadyBligh

          You said “free speech”, which is provided by the First Amendment, idiot.

          You have no right to a convention in a hotel.

          Now go back to playing with your dolls.

          • Roger The Alien

            Hey look, name calling and man-shaming all in one post. Use logic, not your obviously fragile emotions. You seem to have a problem differing between the two.

            Again, I didn’t say anyone was violating their first amendment rights nor did say the tactics were unconstitutional in and of themselves. I was speaking on the intent. The intent to silence a group whom they don’t agree with. If you need further citation, I can get a crayon and write out for you.

          • LadyBligh

            LOL.

            You get corrected by a woman and then you have to backtrack.

            Feeling butthurt much?

          • Roger The Alien

            Still not sinking in, eh?

            Hold on, Darling, I’ll get the crayolas….

          • LadyBligh

            Oh, it’s sunk.

            Like your argument.

          • Roger The Alien

            There’s no argument here.

            There is only what I said, the explanation of what I meant in what I said, and in-between this is you missing the point in such an embarrassing manner while thinking you’ve won a mythical argument.

          • LadyBligh

            Well, there was what you said, and then you lying about what you said when you were called out for your stupidity.

            This is why you can’t find a real woman.

          • Roger The Alien

            “This is why you can’t find a real woman.”

            This coming from a little girl who’s failing at communicating with the adults? That’s fresh. hahaha

          • LadyBligh

            Oh c’mon!

            We all know you’re not an adult.

          • Roger The Alien

            Does mommy know you’re on the computer, Sweetie?

          • Attila_L_Vinczer

            Hey! NO name calling! Further condescending attacks. Must a self esteem issue.

      • Chris Mackney

        If you take action to suppress the free speech of others, you are UN-American. Period. (All that shit Dumbya said about you – all true).

        Nobody cares if you are part of the government. If you make this argument it just shows you are a hypocrite too. Holding the government to higher standards than you hold yourself, then whining all day long that politicians are all corrupt.

        Again with the projections.

        • LadyBligh

          Look, I get it.

          This is the longest a woman has ever talked to you.

          But do you have to keep clogging my notification feed?

          • Chris Mackney

            Look, I get it too.

            Engaging in play-catharsis with men online you think hate you because you hate them redirects you away from your natural instinct of wanting to kill babies.

            I suspect it also makes you horny speaking with men who don’t kowtow to you. You are thinking “How can such a man afford to talk to me in this
            manner, The One™ Who is All Women?”

            How little you know yourself.

          • Attila_L_Vinczer

            And it’s the longest anyone has listened to you. Elevating oneself by being condescending, using gender prowess, lowers you into the gutter and goes against feminist ideology, to have gender equality. Typical hypocrisy.

  • Teflon Expat

    So, in summary. The feminists have not met their goals. The conference is in two weeks. There will be no more protests. MRAs tooled feminists and have grown again. Questions?

  • Teflon Expat

    Awww, all out of cutesy ‘thank yous?’

  • Julie Jive

    Thank you, protesters, for all of your hard work and commitment in keeping this hate group from convening in our Detroit! There were NO death threats made, WHATSOEVER. Thank you Steve Neavling for your report. “Keep your HATE out of our STATE”!

    • Teflon Expat

      Thank you ‘protestors’ for your hard work with them Sharpies and cardboard and bedsheets and such. The ‘hate group’ was run off due to such hideous signs and in two weeks AVfM will arrive all spiffy and ready to go.

    • fools2234

      So a peaceful conference to discuss these issues:

      http://www.cultural-misandry.com/mens-rights/

      Is labeled a “hate group” by manhating feminists who do not want those issues discussed.

      Also its ironic that a group of people (feminists) who send death threats and promise violence to hotel staff are trying to call others a “hate group”.

      Address your own hate before attempting to call out others.

      • Julie Jive

        I don’t hate anyone. I’m happy.

        • Teflon Expat

          Then come along in two weeks, at least for the free beer and snacks.

    • Stephen Jones

      No, death threats were really made… I doubt that they were credible death threats, but you never know.
      One of the speakers, Erin Pizzey (Founder of the international women’s shelter movement), has been through this in the past, and although the threats may not have seemed credible, feminists did manage to get close enough to shoot her dog.
      So even if the threats don’t seem credible this time, there is always a chance.

      • Mukundray

        Erin Pizzey is a staunch anti-feminist who lived in a conservative rural area (where roaming dogs are shot at regularly) and her dog according to her was shot and survived. She then subsequently blamed feminists with no evidence.

        The supposed death threats at the hotel are also somewhat shady as the hotel owner and staff were unaware of them and no report was filed with the Detroit PD (so there will be no police investigation). The only evidence of the threats (supposed redacted letter from the hotel) has been taken down from the ‘A Voice For Men’ site after they used it to milk 25K in donations from their userbase.

        • Mike Hunt

          Erin Pizzey founded the fist women’s shelter in England.

          She must really hate women.

        • Teflon Expat

          Milked in 22 hours! That really burns, huh? Feminists hate being caught off guard like that as it demonstrates how much they are hated

          • Mukundray

            Manufactured outrage is a lucrative business for AVfM.

          • Teflon Expat

            With obviously entertaining results!

        • Stephen Jones

          Well, naturally she’s a staunch anti-feminist… so would you be if they had treated you like they treated her. That’s like accusing African Americans of being “staunch anti-KKK”

          Now, as for these stray dogs and random gunmen (sorry, gun *persons*) running around Chiswick… where on earth did you hear that?
          This is an upscale neighbourhood in *London, UK*… it’s not exactly south central LA.

          Evidence? The London Constabulary had her mail re-directed to them due to the threats of violence. She didn’t ask them, they insisted.
          And then violence occurred.
          Yes, it is circumstantial evidence, but evidence nonetheless. And she took it seriously enough to flee her homeland and go into hiding in America… and you’re suggesting it was all a ruse?
          Can you really believe she picked up her life and left her friends, family and loved ones behind just to back up this ruse? Preposterous, and you know it.

          And, yes, there were actual threats of violence in Detroit. I’ve seen them. Several threats have been made on social media… I’m sure I can find a screenshot of at least one if you like.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            She’s admitted to being anti-feminist since long before feminists even knew who she was. She said in a report that she didn’t believe in feminism because of her mother.

          • Teflon Expat

            And America feels the same because of …radical feminism

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            And you assume that all feminists are “radical feminists” because…

          • Teflon Expat

            No. But they have the are the loudest and most obnoxious and are the face of feminism

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            That’s only because sites like AVFM promote them in that way. It helps the MRA cause to promote feminism as a radical fringe element. If they actually pointed out that there are a lot more non-radical feminists, do you think their message would be as popular? No. It’s a marketing thing.

          • Teflon Expat

            American already sees feminism that way. Feminists are their own worst marketers.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            America sees feminism that way because America is too hellbent on hanging on to its roots of “traditional” lifestyles. It’s the same reason why so many red states are against gay marriage and against immigration reforms and against the idea of ever having a President who isn’t a Christian. America has a lot of citizens who happen to be stuck in the past.

          • Teflon Expat

            The will of the people. That the problem with democracy. You only get one vote and non feminists are more than replacing themselves with higher birth rates. You’re all gone in a generation.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            You make it sound so eugenics-y.

          • Stephen Jones

            That’s not true. She rejected feminism after attending a meeting of *marxist* feminists as an adult.
            She declared herself anti-feminist years later.
            Non-feminist and anti-feminist do not mean the same thing.

          • Kimski

            Correct.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            No mention of Marxism in this. A lot of mentions of how her mom was cruel and that’s why she didn’t like feminism, though. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1215464/Why-I-loathe-feminism—believe-ultimately-destroy-family.html

          • Stephen Jones

            Here is her story in her own words. Plenty of mention of marxism.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03CZ5IvAXog

            Oh, and she’s also expressed her feelings towards marxist feminism to me personally. I know that means nothing to you, but I just think you ought to know that I’m not going to take your word for it about someone I’ve actually spoken with on this very subject.

            [EDIT] Daily Mail? Really?

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            It was a story that was published under her name.

          • Stephen Jones

            Ok, I can see how you were taken in. But the Daily Mail isn’t exactly known for it’s journalistic integrity, the BBC more so.
            I’m sure you haven’t bothered to watch the video, and I get that, but if you were to, you will see a segment where she describes going to a Feminist meeting as a married adult, full of hope and enthusiasm, only to have her voice silenced and her lived experiences dismissed.
            She also describes marxist language and posters at this meeting, and the oppressed/oppressor scenario that is so critical to marxist thinking.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            I will try to watch it later.

    • Mike Hunt

      Feminist definition of “Hate”: People saying things that question my privilege.

      • Teflon Expat

        And getting others to believe its about hate in order to garner sympathy and support. Its adult crybabyism.

      • tecumseh

        no, people advocating that the law continue to support male privilege, and dismissing women’s experience as invalid

        • Mike Hunt

          Please provide examples of male privilege.

          Don’t use pay gap. Debunked a thousand times over.

          • Mike Hunt

            The silence is deafening.

          • Teflon Expat

            Men staying later at work and not going to pottery class or hot yoga and such…thats a male privilege. No?

        • Kimski

          Male priviledge went out with the feminist indoctrination of kids in schools, and ‘women’s experience’ is whatever they want it to be.
          Comes with the ‘empowerment’ and ‘liberation’, not the ‘victimhood’ narrative of today.

        • Mike Hunt

          Here’s a fantastic video all about women’s “experiences”.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0FJNs6f580

          • Stephen Jones

            I love that video, it makes me laugh every time!

    • Julie Jive

      Men should have GOOD SUPPORT GROUPS. This group, “A Voice for Men” is clearly a HATE GROUP. Their actions speak for themselves.

      • Teflon Expat

        Of course that support group is feminism. Yep.
        What ‘actions’ exactly? Booking a hotel?

        • Kimski

          What’s a ‘fro’? :D

      • Mike Hunt

        What actions? The one’s in your ignorant imagination?

      • knightrunner

        It is so clear that Avfm is a hate group that no one but feminists can see it.

        • Teflon Expat

          But they are so DESPERATE to get the nation to see it so they can continue to dominate the discourse.

          • knightrunner

            Yep. Thanks to feminists, the number of daily viewers to Avfm has jumped by about 10000. Feminist are our best advertisers. We should start paying them.

          • Thomas C. Pedroni

            I think you owe a lot of thanks to that gun-toting misogynist who killed a bunch of people– wasn’t that where the attention really started, not from feminists who saw some commonality in your worldview?

          • Thomas C. Pedroni

            He put you on the map. Maybe you should be paying him.

          • Kimski

            His only part in that was because the feminists started claiming he was an MRA, which he was not. A PUA-hater, yes. But that has just about as much with the MHRA to do as Dutch shoe salesmen have.
            So, once again the feminist lies seriously backfired. They’ve been really good at that from the birth of AVfM, and the just managed to do it again with they DoubleTree. End of story.

          • Thomas C. Pedroni

            I think what he had in common with you is a view that women, and their perceived advantages, were ruining his life. He targeted tri-delts because he thought they, as “unobtainable sluts” in his contorted mind, owed him something and were responsible for his misery. I think it was a wake up call for many people about what (some) men are capable of when they perceive themselves to be victims of women generally.

          • Kimski

            Oh, gawd! Not another one!!
            Why don’t you enlighten yourself on the difference between hatred of an ideology and hatred of a gender first, and then I’ll be happy to continue this conversation with you afterwards.
            Also, you’re blaming all men for the actions of one crazy man here, you know that, don’t you?
            Have you told your dad you feel this way about him recently??

          • Stephen Jones

            I love that logic. He was anti-PUA, MRA’s are anti-PUA, therefore he was an MRA.

            … but wait, feminists are even more anti-PUA than MRA’s… so would it not also follow, using that logic, that he was a feminist?

          • RubberPunch

            That is why Rodgers didn’t ‘put us on the map’. Feminists claims that he was an MRA did.

          • Teflon Expat

            Nah, they were protesting the conference weeks before that gun toting general crazy person.

          • Thomas C. Pedroni

            I don’t think that’s true– I followed the development of the protest against the Double Tree pretty closely. There was no call for protest from any of the groups I know of until after he went on his rampage. So your group, even if not affiliated with the murderer, got its real bump from him, not feminists. Feminists that I know of here were disturbed by the commonality of the rhetoric between your group and the murderer. Not the physical actions– rather the rhetoric and vitriol.

          • Teflon Expat

            Go check your facts with the feminists. They did not want that conference when it was announced back in March

          • Thomas C. Pedroni

            There may have been some, I’m sure. And I understand that. I’m just telling you the big uptick did not come until after. That’s certainly when it came on my radar screen.

          • knightrunner

            Feminists have been protesting us for years. Elliot Rodgers have them a pile of bodies to stand on. That’s all. Intelligent people have figured out that there is no connection between roger and the MRM.

      • http://www.avoiceformen.com/ DannyboyCdnMra

        Go with God Julie Jive and may your days be filled with happiness.
        Dan Perrins.
        Canadian News Director A Voice For Men.

    • Irving

      Congrats on working against free speech! No wonder no one likes feminists these days.

      • Teflon Expat

        They want so desperately to have a good PR image and yet they react rather than think. Its a knee-jerk thing and now they are wondering what to do next.

    • knightrunner

      Hehehe. If you want to get hate out of your state then you should leave.

      • Teflon Expat

        Done! at least in the vicinity of downtown Detroit.

    • mb1957@hotmail.co.uk

      What’s with this thing about short sentences with two rhyming words? Would anything more exhaust the brain capacity of feminist protesters? Probably

      • Teflon Expat

        Reading off the protest signs that are now in the garage

    • RubberPunch

      If you have evidence that no death threats were made, please contact the police.

      If this is true, the Hotel has used false claims in a letter to the organizers of the conference, asking for increased security measures.

      False claims are bad. They can even cost people their freedom.

  • Guest

    Thank you, Protestors, for all of your commitment to keeping this hate group out of our city. :)

    • Teflon Expat

      Thank you ‘protestors’ for your efforts that tripled our conference size, cost us more food budget and a more costly conference space a few blocks away. :(
      –AVfM

    • fools2234

      You do know the conference isnt cancelled right? They are moving it, but thanks for the expose and even more revealing of the hate that feminists hold for half the population.

      • Teflon Expat

        It is feminists vs men. Not women vs men. FACT

        • tecumseh

          actually, it’s humanity versus all you nimrods

          • Teflon Expat

            Desperately wanting that to be true does not make it so. Feminists have a real negative image in this nation

          • tecumseh

            actually, about 20% of americans call themselves feminists, and about 80% beleive in gender equality. Only 8% say they are antifeminist. That doesnt sound like a negative image to me.

          • Teflon Expat

            Its all about the image and its bad and feminists now it. Thus the protests. FACT. MRAs make the feminists butt hurt even worse. Salt. Rub. Wound.

          • Kimski

            MRA’s have made it legit for the silent majority of 80% to speak up against the bigotry from the 20% haters. FACT.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            Fact? So you have scientific research that backs you up on this? I mean, if it’s a fact and you have proof of the numbers, then I would love to see that.

          • Kimski

            Have you EVER seen so many people expressing their dissent with feminism online before, in all the time there’s actually been an internet?
            Or in the comment sections in the newspapers?
            Or in Real Life?

            I rest my case, M’lord.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            It’s M’lady. Have I ever? Yes, I have, but I’m from Alabama, so finding a bunch of people who speak out against equality is still pretty normal here.

          • Stephen Jones

            We’re not against equality. Quite the opposite, as I have already expressed to you.
            I had hoped you were one of the reasonable feminists.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            I am reasonable. I’m also tired. Hours of being accused of hating men or lying or being told I’m somehow less of a person because of my appearance is rather draining.

          • Stephen Jones

            With all due respect, you do seem to be going out of your way to engage those most likely of saying something worth taking offence to.
            Trolling is fun for some people ( I also saw you comment about enjoying goading people), I understand that, although I don’t see the appeal myself.
            But in truth, it’s hard to say you’re tired of defending yourself when you’re plowing into it headlong.

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            What should I do? Keep quiet? Let people say whatever they want? Silence can imply that I consent to the things being said. And I don’t. I don’t agree with what is being said. So, why should I not say that I don’t agree?

          • Stephen Jones

            No, don’t keep quiet. NEVER keep quiet.
            Rights are like muscles, if you don’t exercise them, they disappear.

            But I believe you are a rational enough person to recognize that saying whatever it takes to get a rise out of someone who is willing to say whatever it takes to get a rise out of you is completely non productive.

            I described to you why I believe the MRM is equity minded, and you even ‘liked’ the comment. If you disagree, I’m more than happy to discuss it with you or any reasonable person.

            But instead, you’re going on to cast us as “Speaking out against equality” to an internet troll.
            Do you see the problem I have with that?

          • http://fuzzypinkslippers.com Janet Morris

            Yes, I do.

          • Kimski

            I weren’t addressing you with the M’lord.
            Alabama doesn’t sound like a nice place. Keep it.

          • http://www.motorcitymuckraker.com/ muckraker_abby

            Please refrain from name-calling.

          • RubberPunch

            Well I guess I’m not part of humanity then…

    • Mike Hunt

      I am certain that 99% of the dumbfucks parroting the “hate group” line have never even read anything on AVFM that wasn’t passed through the Futrelle Filter first.

      • Teflon Expat

        The US is one big feminist hate group

  • Guest

    THANK YOU for not supporting this event!

    • Teflon Expat

      Thank you for stopping the outrageous freaked-out behavior and leaving us alone.
      –The Doubletree

  • fools2234

    We are “controversial” but feminists are the one making death threats and doing everything they can (as some of these pics show) to censor speech they hate (mens issue talk).

    Media never calls them out tho. Disgusting

    • Teflon Expat

      Cant blame media. Media operates out of large buildings, also known as ‘targets’ in femspeak. Media has Sharpie & Signboard phobia and that is the ONLY reason feminists can bellow and screech with impunity. Everyone just rolls eyes, waits it out and prays for heavy rain.

      • Kathryn O’Connor

        I’ve got raingear.

        • Teflon Expat

          But your sign will run and then collapse. Its over

    • tecumseh

      1. go to bookstore
      2. buy dictionary
      3. look up censorship
      4. stfu

      • Teflon Expat

        stfu is all that feminists ever wanted from MRAs. That is it. That didn’t happen and alas, here we are.

        • tecumseh

          right, but see, telling someone STFU isnt censorship. (see above)

          • Teflon Expat

            a pesky shrieking annoyance for sure. Like having to shake poop off your shoe

          • coltov mocktail

            no, it isn’t. (apparently you still have some functioning brain cells left) telling some one anything isn’t censorship. advocating censorship ISN’T censorship. It just makes it more likely to happen,. have fun asshole.

          • Pitchguest

            Telling someone to STFU when talking about censorship is the textbook definition of irony. Clearly you never finished grade school.

            If you told them to fuck off, that wouldn’t have been censorship but your brain was obviously not engaged. Now fuck off back to whatever echo chamber you labour under. Prat.

          • johnnyblotus

            Shouting loudly to drown out another speaker is definitely censorship. Don’t try and hide behind some imaginary technicality you invented in your own head. Feminists are trying to censor MRA’s.

      • Mike Hunt

        HAHA.

        THE IRONNEEEZZZ

      • coltov mocktail

        stfu? f u!

      • wiier9l
        • Kathryn O’Connor

          she’s blond. so she’s dumb

          • Stephen Jones

            Silencing women’s voices, are you?

          • wiier9l

            she’s a WOMAN so she’s DUMB

      • librtee_dot_com

        The line between ‘censorship’ and ‘coordinated efforts to shut down opposing speech’ are really quite narrow.

        Here’s a hypothetical: some guy is on the street corner going on about Jesus. I, in my capacity as a private citizen, not affiliated with any government, use a gun to scare him off in order to silence him, and I do it whenever I realize he is talking.

        Have I ‘censored’ the man? If now, what word would you use to describe my behavior?

      • johnnyblotus

        Intimidating people into silence is censorship. Yelling loudly to drown out a speaker’s message is called the “heckler’s veto” and is also censorship. Feminists are guilty of censorship against anyone who criticizes their hateful ideology.

    • Kathryn O’Connor

      Like men never censored women before ever in the history of the world.
      I don’t want to censor you. I just want to stand behind you and every time you say something stupid like “Fat chicks should be grateful when they get raped” (something this group has stated) I just want to say, “you’re a doucebag.”

      • librtee_dot_com

        As an MRA, I thoroughly welcome and invite you to do just that. The MRA isn’t perfect, we need to be called on our shlt as much as anyone.

        But please note, this role is exactly the role the MRA plays to Feminism itself: when Feminists say something stupid such as ’1 in 4 girls will be raped in college’ or ‘patriarchy is a system in the western world that privileges all men at the expense of all women,’ we call you on it.

        If Feminism were a healthier movement, it would actually appreciate provable falsehoods being pointed out; unfortunately, the mechanism of self-critique is badly broken in modern feminism, so any critique of feminist ideology is seen as an attack on ‘women as a whole’.

        BTW, on the subject of ‘calling bullshlt,’ I’d very much appreciate any sort of source or link for the ‘fat chicks should be grateful for being raped’ quote. I just spent 10 minutes on google and could find nothing, except various tumblr blogs repeating without sources the exact same thing you just repeated without sources.

        So, um, call me skeptical. And if you have to make something up / repeat a lie to come up with an example of something to criticize in the MRM, well, that’s a pretty telling statement on modern Feminism’s irrational vitriol towards the MRM, based to a large extent on fabrications amplified through a particularly opaque echo chamber.

        • Chris Montroud

          Thanks I was going to ask for a source to the fat chicks quote myself

  • Teflon Expat

    Its the butt-hurt vicious cycle. Feminists were butt-hurt for years due to the MRAs. Then they got more butt-hurt as the MRAs grew in number. So they attacked the MRAs thus leading to more MRAs and more butt-hurt feminists. Then they street-protested the MRAs who strategically turned the protest against the feminists and now they are hyper-butt-hurt. How much more can that butt take?

  • Bingalls

    Excellent news. Congratulations to the protest organizers and attendees. A great event with a satisfying conclusion.

    • Kimski

      Alas, all that protesting was an exercise in futility.
      But I agree on the satisfying conclusion, and I’m sure it will be a great event. Thanks, btw!

      • Teflon Expat

        But highly entertaining. So thats something. No?

      • tecumseh

        yeah let us know when the event is actually rescheduled.

        • Teflon Expat

          Location too? The Sharpies are on us!

    • knightrunner

      An event that helped the MRM.

  • Teflon Expat

    Feminists say: “Yay, look at what we did…but uh oh, how does that really make us look”

  • Guest

    Mmmmm, let me see the man-tears flow in this comment section. I only wish I could taste the despair.

    • Teflon Expat

      Tears of joy! This is the worst PR for feminists ever! You’re officially invited to the event in Detroit. Would you like the address now or on the day the event starts?

      • Guest

        If your opinions are so disgusting that you have to hide in the shadows because the marketplace of ideas has rejected you, perhaps there ought to be a reconsideration.

        • Teflon Expat

          You’re still invited. Free snacks at every event. That should do it, huh?

          • G Trieste

            Free beer would do it.

        • Stephen Jones

          Who’s hiding in the shadows? You’ve even been personally invited.
          Is this going to turn into another situation where people in ski masks start yelling “we can see through your disguise!” at people who are making no attempt to conceal their identity whatsoever?

    • Mike Hunt

      Perfect example of how much feminists love male suffering. Sadistic group that they are.

  • http://www.markhoustonphotography.com/ mthouston

    Steve are you covering up feminist terrorism?

    • Teflon Expat

      Other articles that are going national certainly do expose it.

      • http://www.markhoustonphotography.com/ mthouston

        Got any links? I would be interested in reading them.

  • MattMihaly

    Men’s rights groups are such a joke. Are they upset that men dominate every single facet of commercial, military, and political leadership in America? Is that the oppression they feel?

    • Teflon Expat

      Sadly, it is a very small number of men who dominate in such a way. That is known as the apex fallacy.

      • MattMihaly

        The reason men -entirely- dominate all political, military, and commercial realms in America is because they have far greater opportunities presented to them than women do.

        Facts:
        * Every single President of the US has been a man, including the sitting one.
        * 80% of the Senators are men.
        * 82% of the House of Representatives members are men.
        * Nearly 80% of federal judges are men.
        * 100% of the Joint Chiefs of Staff are men.
        * 100% of the Unified Combatant Commands are men.
        * 95.8% of the Fortune 500 have male CEOs.
        * 90% of the world’s billionaires are men, and of the top 20 highest-earning women, only one didn’t inherit her money from a male relative or spouse.
        * Women are actively barred from some jobs. Men aren’t. For instance, women aren’t allowed to serve in the infantry in the US.
        * The largest religious institution in the world – the Catholic Church – led by men for its entire nearly 2 thousand year old history openly discriminates against women, denying them equal status and equal job opportunity.
        * The entire Islamic religion openly discriminates against women.
        * Orthodox Judaism openly discriminates against women.

        Poor men. So downtrodden and so without opportunity.

        • Teflon Expat

          And what percentage of all men do these dudes represent? FAIL on your part. So much heated typing for nothing

          • MattMihaly

            It’s not about the % of guys is it? It’s about the fact that all the top positions are dominated by men. Very clearly, men have far more opportunity than women do, else the numbers would not be so stark at the top of political, military, religious, and commercial leadership.

          • Mike Hunt

            How many logical fallacies would you like to cram into one post?

          • MattMihaly

            Well, if it’s not superior opportunity that leads to men overwhelmingly dominating religious, political, commercial, and military spheres, what is it? What’s your explanation for it?

          • Mike Hunt

            A brilliant man once said, “the simplest explanation is often the best one.”

            Choice. It’s as simple as that. Choice. Aside from withing religion as that’s an obvious straw man.

            Take politics for example. When given the choice between a male and female candidate, women overwhelmingly vote for the male candidate. Why? Interestingly men are more likely to vote for a female politician than women. Again I ask, why? Do you have an answer for that? If you do, I somehow doubt it’s a good one.

            Let me ask you another question. Why are men 90% of the homeless? Is it because of their greater opportunity?

            Why are male suicide 4 times more common than female suicide? Is that because of greater opportunity?

            Why do women win custody of children and receive exorbitant alimony even in our modern world where women are strong, independent and equal? Is that because they have less opportunity?

            You seem like you *might* be a half-way reasonable person who just hasn’t be exposed to the big picture yet. If so, I invite you to do some independent research on these issues, take off your ideological mindset, and explore.

            See what happens.

          • MattMihaly

            Yes, the simplest explanation, or Occam’s Razor, is often the best one. The simplest explanation here is opportunity. When one gender has been openly discriminated against for thousands of years, it’s hardly surprising that a switch can’t be flipped to give them equal opportunity overnight.

            I don’t mean this to be representative of all of the US or the world, but I live/work in Silicon Valley, for reference. I know -many- women who have been openly discriminated against when it comes to, for instance, landing venture capital funding. Heck, one of my own investors once told me, off-the-record, that “We invest in hot dogs, not doughnuts.”

            VCs are, of course, at least 90% male. The investor I referenced above was from a firm that was 100% male…except for the secretaries, of course. They were happy to hire pretty secretaries.

            For sure, VCs get pitched less by women, as women, for whatever reason, don’t tend to be as high-tech oriented, but the % of funded pitches (again, by overwhelmingly male investors) that go to male vs. female is incredibly stark.

            And beyond that, the numbers I mentioned all speak very clearly to opportunity. There are lots of very qualified women who would kill to serve as CEO of a Fortune 500 company, or who would love to be a Priest in the Catholic Church, or who would love to be President.

          • Mike Hunt

            “And beyond that, the numbers I mentioned all speak very clearly to
            opportunity. There are lots of very qualified women who would kill to
            serve as CEO of a Fortune 500 company, or who would love to be a Priest
            in the Catholic Church, or who would love to be President.”

            And those women find a way to get there. Same as the men.

            You are arguing with logical fallacies, but you seem committed to them so I’ll leave you be.

          • RubberPunch

            It may be about initial conditions. The Blank Slate claim that all are born with equal affordances, and that differences are the result of environment only, will lead to the conclusion you offer here. That difference in representation is a result of opportunity only.

            However, if we are born with different initial conditions, and if these are systematically distributed between males and females, then even if the environment is equal for males and females, the outcome will reflect the difference in initial conditions.

          • Teflon Expat

            Some people have high desire and take risks. Women do it too and they succeed more than others. Enough with this inane whine fest.

          • MattMihaly

            They do? Can you provide me stats? Can you explain why 95% of Fortune 500 CEOs are men? All of the stats I listed are easily google-able. Your claim is not.

          • Teflon Expat

            Why does it even matter? Its less than 1% of entire national population. Get onto something more interesting. JA

          • MattMihaly

            Ahh, right. “Don’t look over here. Don’t pay attention to the fact that men literally run the country in every way.”

          • Teflon Expat

            WHICH MEN? WHICH MEN? WHICH MEN? WHICH MEN? WHICH MEN? WHICH MEN? WHICH MEN? WHICH MEN?

          • RubberPunch

            The majority of those who run the country may be men, but men do not run the country. Can you tell the difference yet?

            The majority of those who run the country may also be wearing suits, but that doesn’t mean wearing a suit makes you powerful.

          • Kimski

            When we see as many women as men as sewage workers, construction workers, ressource harvesters, and all the other jobs that kills men in the thousands every year, then you can start bitching about women not being CEO’s.

          • Teflon Expat

            There is this huge hangup on the CEO thing. It must be about image. As usual. Superficial stuff. Glamour. Women. All makes sense now

          • Teflon Expat

            Apex fallacy. Apex fallacy. Apex fallacy. Apex fallacy. Apex fallacy. Apex fallacy. Apex fallacy. Apex fallacy. No more response to this obtuse stupidity.

          • Kimski

            Show me the affirmative action programs for men?
            Show me the government fundings for men?
            Show me the higher percentage of males in higher education?

            Then I’ll show you the percentage of women that vote for male politicians, exclusively.
            -The percentage of women that doesn’t want to work under a female boss.
            -The percentage of women who can’t get pregnant fast enough, when they’re called into action.

          • MattMihaly

            There are, to my knowledge, no affirmative action programs for men, because they aren’t needed. That’s like an affirmative action program for white people in the US. Affirmative action exists to try to balance the inequality that’s a result of thousands of years of systematic discrimination by men against women (or by black people in America by white people in America, for instance).

            Government funding for men? I think you haven’t spent much time looking at the beneficiaries of government via the military-industrial complex. That money overwhelmingly goes to corporate interests run by men. Boeing, Raytheon, Northrup Grumann, etc.

            % of males vs. females attending college – read this for a breakdown. http://www.forbes.com/sites/ccap/2012/02/16/the-male-female-ratio-in-college/

            Can you show me any stats whatsoever backing up your claims about the % of women that don’t want to work under a female boss, or the % of women who can’t get pregnant fast enough?

            You mainly sound like you just don’t like women and think they’re inferior to men.

          • Kimski

            And, yet, here you are, advocating for help to women as if they’re infants, incapable of handling every aspect of life, without you being there to present their case for them.
            Your stats does not substantiate anything at all. They’re 6 years old and deal with colleges only. Have you bothered to check out the recent numbers for BOTH colleges and universities lately? ‘Cause I see a need for affirmative actions for male right there, for starters.
            And spare me the pathetic shaming attempts, dude. I’m an MRA and I thrive on that shit. It’s completely pointless and only adds to the fact that you don’t have a case, beyond your need for being the White Knight who defends the Damsels in Distress. Now you tell me, how are women ever going to become equal, when guys like you always offer to fix their sh*t for them??

        • Soxnax Ktuner

          Fact: Majority vote is in woman hands, women also hold proxy vote in hands of whiteknights like yourself.
          Fact 2: politicians will only care about majorities problems if they want ti be elected.
          Fact 3: Look at what “problems” Obama Binladen raises.

          “infantry” Like many women can qualify to infantry.

          Women get pussy pass when it comes to courts (rape, murder, theft, divorce).
          Women are less likely to be victims of violent crime.
          Domestic violence against men is seen as joke by society, courts and police.
          Religions are irrelevant.
          Try harder.

          • MattMihaly

            Yes, majority vote is in women’s hands because there are more women.

            And I see that, totally without surprise, racism goes right along with “men’s right’s” groups. Shocking.

          • Soxnax Ktuner

            “Yes, majority vote is in women’s hands because there are more women.” Ah, too little attention to read to end? Majority is ALWAYS represented in democratic country. Majority’s problems are always first in democratic country. Even though it’s men in “control” look at what “problems” they are solwing. All about women. Are you blind or just ignorant?

            “racism” Where do you see racism in my post? Calling Obama terrorist is not racist. Even if he was white I would say same. (Hint: most of the world is calling him terrorist.)

          • MattMihaly

            Really? So then why aren’t more of these high-paying jobs in the commercial sphere landing in women’s laps?

            Have you ever sat in a corporate board room? I have. I promise you that the board members of the Fortune 500 (85% of which are men) are not spending their time thinking about how to help people-who-aren’t-them get rich. America is still an old boy’s club in many ways, and the idea that men are at a disadvantage is laughable and, based on outcome alone, provably false.

            Re: Racism, yes, I’m sure the fact that Obama is black has absolutely nothing to do with you and other nutjobs calling him a terrorist. Nothing at all.

          • Teflon Expat

            Most boys (99%) are not in the boys club. You’ve been suckered

          • Kimski

            “I’m sure the fact that Obama is black has absolutely nothing to do with you and other nutjobs calling him a terrorist.”

            Pure projection on your part.

          • Soxnax Ktuner

            “So then why aren’t more of these high-paying jobs in the commercial sphere landing in women’s laps?”
            It’s not one day job. First affirmative action to kick men from universities – done (more women graduate universities than men, do feminists say “let’s stop”? Nope. They say ” we need MORE WOMEN!”). Now gender quotas for women in well paid positions – EU , 2020 gender quota… Open your eyes.

            “nothing to do with you and other nutjobs calling him a terrorist” In my case – nothing. He provably lied, he is pro war, pro spying, and Obama rhymes with Osama. Projecting much?

          • Soxnax Ktuner

            “So then why aren’t more of these high-paying jobs in the commercial sphere landing in women’s laps?” EU – gender quota on women in board rooms – 2020.

            “I promise you that the board members of the Fortune 500 ” Private organizations so far were able to hire people they deemed capable. Once again – feminists with EU board room quota are changing that – good bye meritocracy.

            ” I’m sure the fact that Obama is black has absolutely nothing to do with you and other nutjobs calling him a terrorist.” Oh my. You got me. I bet I hated Bush because he was black too!

        • Mike Hunt

          And the first female Prime Minister of the UK was a women, elected more than 30 years ago was actively hostile towards the infantalizing religion of feminism.

          So what’s your point?

          You are confusing equality of outcome with equality of opportunity.

          You have yet to provide any solid evidence of women being denied opportunity in western society. Instead you’re resorting the the straw-man argument of orthodox middle eastern religions, of which have little influence on western society. Social justice warrior type feminists are awfully cozy with Islam.

        • knightrunner

          Women are the majority of the population. Thus they are the majority of voters. More women vote than men. All those men that are elected to office were elected by a majority female electorate.
          There is nothing stopping women for running for office except themselves. Not to mention the fact that this overwhelmingly male government prioritizes women over men. Why? Because women are the ones that put them and office and the ones that keep them there.
          Nothing is stopping women from becoming a CEO of a company. Most women prioritize family life over work. Most men prioritize work over family because they are expected to be the provider. This is why fewer women are CEOs. The first female business in America actually predates the founding of the United States.
          The law was changed so that women are allowed to serve in the infantry. But women are still not required to sign up for the draft.
          The Catholic Church is a private institution it should be able do what ever it wants. If you want a religion that prioritizes women over men the start one.
          If you don’t like religion than don’t be a part of it. It isn’t required. This is the land of the free by the way. A private organization can discriminate however it wants. Get used to it.
          Thank you for showing us the level of stupidity common within the mind of the average feminist.

    • mb1957@hotmail.co.uk

      Yeah, and they dominate suicide, homelessness, they’re denied access to kids after relationship breakdowns, victims of domestic violence with no support, workplace deaths, poorly-paid ‘glass cellar’ jobs, victims of circumcision, war deaths and injuries, males are in a minority in further education… in our party manifesto we cover 20 areas where the British state assaults the human rights of men and boys, it doesn’t assault the human rights of women and girls in even one. I’m told things are just as bad in the US.
      I look forward to speaking at this event – the first international conference on men’s issues – whenever and wherever it’s rescheduled. A Voice for Men http://avoiceformen.com are doing a GREAT job in raising public consciousness, and I recommend you check out the website. They have the full support of our political party.
      Mike Buchanan
      JUSTICE FOR MEN & BOYS
      (and the women who love them)
      http://j4mb.org.uk

      • collaboration

        Mike Buchanan:I would have a glance at the comments under any AVFM meme before offering such unconditional support. Feminists object to MRA’s because their only agenda is denigrating feminists. Why would feminists object to men talking about supporting homeless males or the high suicide right of males? Feminist men and women are parents of males, sons and daughter and partners of males.
        AVFM is the voice for ‘some’ men, those who support a constant stream of feminist /woman bashing.

        • Teflon Expat

          Feminist bashing infuriates feminists. Who knew.

          • collaboration

            It may infuriate some feminists, amuse some, upset some, bore some and many will be completely unaware of you. Just to remind you we are a variety of human beings. AVFM is very good at dehumanising us. However, I am more concerned about why you should feel infuriating feminists is a worthwhile use of AVFM’s time when there is so much work to do for men.

          • Teflon Expat

            True it is silly, and a cheap shot as its so easy to do. One hair trigger away from a barrage of marchers. Its best to leave them be but the temptation is strong. There must be a 12 step program for this.

          • collaboration

            A barrage of marchers? Or a few people who peacefully object to AVFM masquerading as an organisation that genuinely supports men (all men).

          • Teflon Expat

            Implicating a hotel rather than confronting the object of your ire is passive aggressive pussy work.

          • collaboration

            Really? Or to put in a way which is less insulting to women. Some human beings exercising their basic human right to protest at their local hotel hosting an event run by AVFM, which not one person has disagreed, allow and promote comments which are hateful towards humans who support feminism.

          • Teflon Expat

            …allow and promote comments which make feminists feel bad and less powerful. There, FIFY

          • collaboration

            I think verbal abuse (of the sort I have witnessed on AVFM) is certainly designed to encourage feminists to feel bad and less powerful. Seems a bit pointless when there is so much work to do for men. I’m not really sure why you are so keen to defend it.

          • Kimski

            I actually think you’re doing an excellent job, when it comes to dehumanising yourselves. I don’t see any need for our help, when it comes to that specific area. Perhaps the problem is more that AVfM shines a spotlight on the things you do, hmm?
            And it’s not so much infuriating you as making it obvious to outsiders, that you don’t own the gender discourse in the media anymore, and can actually be fought without fear of retaliation.

          • Teflon Expat

            Not owning the discourse, that monopoly, really hurts. Not being able to demonize MRAs with impunity really pounds the salt.

          • collaboration

            I hope one day you reflect on that comment about feminists dehumanising themselves and realise it is the playground equivalent of: “No! You are.” and therefore entirely unproductive.

          • Kimski

            Nice attempt at shaming there.
            Too bad it doesn’t work.

          • RubberPunch

            Infuriating and denigrating feminists is not a goal in itself. It is not the purpose of the MHRM to do that, it is a method.

            The reason it is useful is because feminism is an ideology that justify changes in law and culture, that discriminate against men. Feminism makes it look good and just.

            It has been particularly useful because it can exists in a safe spot between the real existing left and the right.

            The left will support for historical reasons, and because it has been reduced to identity politics. The right will support because patriarchy, i.e. because of traditional views on chivalry. Feminists are particularly good at justifying aligning themselves with either side.

            The end justifying the means is a recurring theme with feminism, and feminist academe in my experience.

            By attacking what justifies discrimination against males and females, it is the goal to strip the justification from the actions or inactions of government and others.

          • collaboration

            What difference does it make whether it is a method or a goal? AVFM are still denigrating feminists as opposed to positively supporting men. I read a comment recently in which a gay man (supporter of men’s rights) said he was gladof laws which protected him and other minority groups from hate crimes. This disagreed with the general consensus and he was called a mangina and other hateful things. Your methods/ goals are not productive.

          • RubberPunch

            You constructed a sentence where you juxtaposed infuriating feminists and doing work for men. Infuriating feminists is doing work for men, for the reason I stated earlier. You were the one stating a difference, not I.

            Nobody should be protected from hate crimes. Hate is a feeling and feelings should not be criminalized. Everyone should be protected from crimes. In crime, calculated rationality has always been considered a more serious motivation than feelings.

        • mb1957@hotmail.co.uk

          Collaboration, thank you. I’m very familiar with those comments and have had 40+ articles published there myself. I could spend an hour responding to your points but don’t have the time. The agenda of the conference is on the AVfM site and I doubt 10% of it is about attacking feminism. I don’t plan to mention the F-word at all in my talk, ‘Let’s get political’. The agenda is very much about the disadvantaging of men and boys. One of those disadvantages is that no govt money goes to supporting men and boys, it all gets hoovered up by feminists.

          • collaboration

            But why does the AVFM conference have a different agenda to their Facebook site agenda which I would say is somewhere nearer 95% denigration of feminists/ women? I would be interested to know why you feel speaking at a conference organised by a site which not only tolerates the terrible comments, but actively ban men and women who put forward a different point of view however politely and why you think that would raise awareness for the things you are clearly campaigning about?

    • fools2234

      22,000 word list of mens rights issues:

      http://www.cultural-misandry.com/mens-rights/

      Inform yourself u ignoramus

      • tecumseh

        all I see is a bunch of complaints about rape laws. Apparently they offer women too much protection against unwanted sexual encounters. Poor oppressed rapists.

        sickening

        • fools2234

          Due process trampling rape policies that civil rights organizations are speaking out against, boys being forced to pay child support to their statutory rapists, “pro male” domestic violence arrest policies, 7 National health offices dedicated to females, sentencing disparity, false allegations, restraining orders that only require “filling out the form” correctly to obtain, boy crisis in education, and too many more issue to name.

          But according to you, that page is only talking about rape laws? You feminists truly are a disease, but it goes to show you have no arguments against the list and are intentionally misrepresenting the issues discussed on it.

          Go back to crying about the “wage gap” while we attempt to address actual issues.

        • fools2234

          BTW:

          http://www.cultural-misandry.com/female-only-programs/

          Looks an awful lot like female privilege to me.

    • Stephen Jones

      If you think it’s nothing but a joke, then don’t worry about it. Let the conference carry on unimpeded… it’s just a harmless joke anyways, right?
      I suspect, however, that you are being disingenuous in that statement. I suspect you believe it is not a joke at all, but you are attempting to belittle it rather than engage in any sort of meaningful dialogue.

      Am I wrong? Do you really view men’s rights as a joke?

      • tecumseh

        what it is is a dangerous ignorant backlash against women’s equality by men with castration fears, pissed that their 8000 years of privilege is coming to an end.

        so it’s a joke, yes, but not a very funny one

        • Stephen Jones

          It has nothing do do with taking rights away from women. It’s about equal treatment for all people.
          Don’t take my word for it, attend the conference and find out what these guys are talking about for yourself.
          Unless, that is, you are afraid of having your misconceptions shattered.

          • Teflon Expat

            Its the feminist monopoly on controlling the dialog and therefore the politics that is being shattered

          • tecumseh

            i dont need to attend, I can read. complaining that rape laws favor women is like complaining that the jews got really nice bunkbeds in dachau

          • Teflon Expat

            Then those complaints drove a gulag of feminists into Sharpies and Sign mode? Its good to get to the bottom of this finally

          • Mike Hunt

            You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about.

            Educate yourself.

          • Stephen Jones

            Go on holding on to your misconceptions, then. If you’d rather tell us what we think rather than ask us, I can’t help you.

        • Teflon Expat

          what it is is a dangerous ignorant backlash against feminism.

          FIFY

          • tecumseh

            um, actually, you just demonstrated your knowledge of synonyms. Well done.

          • tecumseh

            but I’m glad we agree it’s dangerous and ignorant

          • Teflon Expat

            dangerous and ignorant from the readers perspective solely, DA.
            Thats a synonym too!

        • BlindPelican

          Yup…being denied access to Domestic Violence shelters, trafficked and exploited for labor, used as conscripted child soldiers ,having our genitals mutilated without our consent, having our children ripped away from us by biased family courts, erased from sexual violence statistics, and otherwise having actual issues dismissed by the ignorant is such a *privilege*.

          I suppose for some there is a finite amount of compassion.

        • fools2234

          22,000 word list of mens rights issues:

          http://www.cultural-misandry.com/mens-rights/

          Soo much “privilege” tho.

  • Chiquitobot

    This article is typical of media covering up feminists terrorism. It’s a known fact that death threats were made and yet not one mention of it here. Just know that you’re Skeev Skeevling the terrorist sympathizer.

    • Auntie Alias

      The only source for that “fact” is AVFM.

      • Kimski

        Oh, look! It’s Auntie Dismiss Ridicule Obfuscate!
        Prepare for some vintage cognitive dissonance, people!

      • mb1957@hotmail.co.uk

        You need to check out the AVfM blog post which has the Hilton letter asking for $25,000 for eight armed policeman around the clock, and other costs. Sum raised by AVfM in an online fundraiser in just 22 hours.
        Are you so IQ-challenged as to think the event won’t go ahead now, albeit at another location, or that the determination of vicious radfems to halt discussions of men’s legitimate issues won’t make this a huge PR coup for the MHRM? If so… WOW!

        • Teflon Expat

          Its all going AS PLANNED but not for the radfems. Oh that aptitude gap is a bee atch

        • tecumseh

          men’s “legitimate” issues. LMFAO

          oh, you got issues alright

          • Nutz

            TIL feminists think men comprising over 90% of workplace deaths, being outpaced in academic enrollments in higher education by 2:1, making up 66-75% of the homeless, committing suicide 4-10x as much as women, and not being afforded equal rights to bodily integrity aren’t legitimate issues.

          • LadyBligh

            Except the so-called “men’s rights movement” doesn’t care about any of that until they’re accused of just being a group of he-man woman haters.

            When they’re not being accused of that, they go back to being a bunch of he-man woman haters.

          • coltov mocktail

            of course they do, even the conference itself is just a clever disguise for their secret nefarious plans for wanton acts of ….. misogyny :) Really though, what makes you think that?

          • wiier9l

            feminist alert

          • Kathryn O’Connor

            why can’t guys help make a world where feminism isn’t needed?

          • Incubus

            Already done.

          • Pitchguest

            Because women like you insist on having the cake and eating it too. If you’re genuinely looking for a fair world, then don’t expect everything to go according to your wishes and expect everyone to be at your beck and call.

            The victim narrative. The “life is tough because I am a woman” narrative. The “men should never punch a woman” narrative. Insisting that an imaginitive force called “the patriarchy” is responsible for all women’s ills and that we live in a “rape culture.” All of which, of course, is blamed on men. Do you honestly expect men to hear this and think equality? Even many women have rebelled to this kind of thinking. Because it’s delusional. And feminists who think it are the worst kind of feminist, because they’ve become so entrenched in their ideology that they can’t see past their own delusions. Remind you of anything?

          • Betty P Wiggins

            Patriarchy is 6,000 years old. This is a basic sociological and archeological concept.

            It means socio political institutions are created and controlled by men for male benefit. This is no more an “ideology” than evolution is.

            I don’t know who else would be to “blame” for oppression than the oppressor-class, certainly not those among it actively-incanted by political organizing to fight it.

          • Matthew Lane

            ‘It means socio political institutions are created and controlled by men for male benefit.”
            No it really wasn’t. There is no “benefit” in the deaths of billions of men to protect women. There is no “benefit” in men literally working themselves to death for the benefit of women.
            That wasn’t an advantage it was a biological necessity.

          • Betty P Wiggins

            Billions of men have died “protecting women”? From…who? Other women?

            Who created the economic systems in which women were dependent on men? (And the greatest profiteers are male?) Was it….women?

            If it was a biological necessity for these mass systems of imperialism and capitalism to exist, you really need to let archeologists and cultural scientists know- they’re under the impression that until 10,000 years ago human beings lived in sexually egalitarian and mostly- peaceful nomadic bands.

          • Matthew Lane

            “Who created the economic systems in which women were dependent on men? ”

            Biology did: Because we’ve only had social safety nets for the last 100 years of human history, in comparison to the thousand year dynasties of recorded history that came before that.

            Its the same economic system that worked the average man to death from the age of about 8.

            “If it was a biological necessity for these mass systems of imperialism and capitalism to exist, you really need to let archeologists and cultural scientists know”

            They already know, that’s why it appears in history books…. Maybe you should pick one up.

            “they’re under the impression that until 10,000 years ago human beings lived in sexually egalitarian and mostly- peaceful nomadic bands.”
            No they aren’t. That’s your flawed interpretation of data that you half heard from someone.

          • Betty P Wiggins

            Yeah I think it’s safe to say you could use a little differentiation between individual male mate guarding as a reproductive strategy (emergence of patriarchy) vs overall species fitness.

          • Chris Mackney

            Oh that is rich…

          • Stephen Jones

            We’re working on it, tell your people to stop getting in the way

          • Matthew Lane

            We already have a world where feminism isn’t needed. Because feminism is not a synonym for equality. EQUALITY is needed, but feminism is not only NOT required to achieve that result, it is both incapable & not interested in that result.

          • wiier9l

            feminism was NEVER needed

          • LadyBligh

            You mad, bro?

          • wiier9l

            u mad stupid cuu uunt? LOL!

          • Pitchguest

            Right, and feminists have NOT chosen to blame all things disparaging women on men.

            Oh wait.

          • LadyBligh

            You have feminism confused with misandry.

            Not a surprise. It happens a lot amongst the uneducated.

          • Incubus

            Actually, those who educate themselves on feminism tend to be that this is exactly what it preaches. Even those who don’t do so continue to make excuses for the movement by saying “Not all feminists are like that,” whereas the MRM actually polices itself and kicks out people who advocate violence towards women. Because, you know, the MRM actually behaves like an adult.

          • LadyBligh

            Really?

            You’ve studied feminism?

            Which college?

          • Incubus

            I think pitchguest already said anything that needs to be said on this matter on his comment about feminists of the ’70s below.

            I hope I don’t really need to explain why your statement is decidedly ignorant.

          • LadyBligh

            So you didn’t really study feminism, you just read a bunch of propaganda.

            No surprise. Uneducated people like yourself tend to be very gullible.

          • Incubus

            No, I educated myself on it, which is what I said above. Which is what most well-developed people do. Their learning isn’t limited to what they majored in in college, and the majority of learning they’ve done in their lives has been out-of-classroom. In college, I studied something actually useful.

            Another thing educated people do is discuss facts, rather than look for juvenile attempts to end the discussion. You’ve been provided with a host of things which refute your argument, and have failed to respond to a single one of them. Doesn’t speak much for your level of education. Not that we’re being juvenile and lowering ourselves to juvenile attacks about the other’s education level, though, right?

          • Pitchguest

            Odd about her lowering herself to juvenile attacks. I thought she wanted to meet us on our own level?

          • Incubus

            I think that was Kathryn O’Connor. LadyBligh apparently doesn’t mind stooping.

          • Pitchguest

            Ah, right. My bad.

          • LadyBligh

            You haven’t refuted anything.

            Saying that you educated yourself on a subject means nothing. All the so-called men’s rights defenders have responded with nothing but emotional arguments that show that they’re every bit as irrational as they claim women are.

          • Incubus

            I don’t think you’re quite following this discussion, love.

          • LadyBligh

            You don’t think very much.

          • Incubus

            “I know you are, but what am I?” Seriously? And you claim you went to college?

          • LadyBligh

            Yes. Which is why I know that it’s poor grammar to start a sentence with the word “And”.

          • Incubus

            No, it isn’t, actually. There are cases in which it’s proper. So maybe you didn’t learn as much in college as you think you did.

            But then again, I’m fairly certain that no one here thinks we’re writing an academic paper, so there’s no reason to complain about this unless… you’re trying to showcase yourself as “smart” while ignoring all the very valid points that have been sent your way!

          • LadyBligh

            Yeah, yeah. It’s always the same response when people get called out on poor grammar or spelling.

            Do you have a single argument that isn’t anything other than the repetitive statement that you’re threatened by strong women?

          • Incubus

            Funny how feminists demand protection when they feel threatened by men, yet when they want to imagine men feel threatened by them, that’s time to celebrate. Speaks to your bigotry.

            And if “it’s always the same response,” I can’t say any more except to graduate high school and move on.

          • LadyBligh

            You just admitted that you have the logic of an uneducated teenager.

            Well done!

          • Incubus

            No, you proved you have the reading comprehension of one. But even that’s being generous.

          • Betty P Wiggins

            This makes perfect sense if you deny that male and female are political classes with one ruling over the other.

            Which is what the MRA movement is- pure reactionary and anti-scientific fundamentalism.

          • Incubus

            If you believe that, then you aren’t familiar with our literature, and you aren’t familiar with feminist literature either. Feminism is the one that claims sexual dimorphism takes place in every species except the human race, and based on this, it has imposed laws on society which force females to be favored for positions because of their gender even in cases when there’s a male applying for the same position who is much more qualified. Talk about anti-scientific fundamentalism.

          • Pitchguest

            You believe that the feminist movement of the 70′s helped you get your own credit card. I don’t think you have any right to call anyone else out on reading a bunch of propaganda.

          • LadyBligh

            That’s cute.

            You’re falsely attributing quotes to me about things I never said!

            Awesome!

            God, I’ve seen some dumbasses on the internet, but you guys take the cake!

            You’re every bit as emotionally driven as you accuse women of being.

            No wonder you guys can’t get a woman!

          • Incubus

            Address the points he raised about feminism, or stfu already. It’s painfully obvious that you know you’re wrong by now. And if you don’t know it, you should.

          • LadyBligh

            You’re clogging up my notification feed for this?

          • Pitchguest

            Twice my bad. You have a similar avatar to Kathryn O’Connor and I jumped the gun. Sorry.

          • LadyBligh

            More emotional bullshit.

            Need a tissue, Francis?

          • Pitchguest

            No… I was apologizing to you for mistaking you with another.

            Are you always this difficult?

          • Kimski

            Amazing amount of exclamation marks from someone who’s allegedly cool, calm, and collected.
            Projecting much?

          • Chris Mackney

            Nothing to study.

            Only to pray about.

          • LadyBligh

            Because you wouldn’t want facts to get in the way of your feelings.

          • Chris Mackney

            ‘Learning’ about feminism is like an xian telling an atheist they just need to learn about Jesus.

            You must pray.

            Another retort FAIL. Time for bed! Don’t forget to say your prayers!

          • LadyBligh

            You’ve replied with three different comments now, clogging up my notification feed.

            And yet, you haven’t made one comment that wasn’t completely stupid.

          • Chris Mackney

            Are you in bed yet?

            I will be in in a minute to tuck you in.

          • LadyBligh

            You upvoted yourself?

            Tells you all you need to know. :)

          • Chris Mackney

            Yup. My prediction is that if you have sons that have any chance of growing up to be healthy, they will have to self-validate the same way.

            But I am probably giving you too much credit. You probably threw your baby boys in a trash bin, so we will never know.

          • Pitchguest

            Saying that we live in a society ruled by “the patriarchy”, created by men, with intent to subjugate, oppress and objectify women isn’t misandry?

            Saying that we live in a “rape culture”, created by men, where rape is considered “sexy” and acceptable isn’t misandry?

            Creating such theories as “Schrödinger’s Rapist” where all men are considered potential rapists isn’t misandry?

            These are all things that feminists have said and proposed many times over, and if you disagree with any of them or call it insulting, you’re called a “misogynist.” You’re called “ridiculous”, they say you take things “out of context”, if they ban you they will say you complain about “freeze peach”, if you complain they will say they will drink the “male tears” from “dudebros.”

            If this is the face of feminism, and I have seen many feminists on the internet who meet these criteria, then I want no part in it.

          • LadyBligh

            Never heard of Schrodinger’s Rapist, but now you’re just speaking from privilege.

            If you’re going to be an uneducated dolt, can you at least try to sound smart?

          • Pitchguest

            Ah, yes. That is also one of the things they will say. Privilege. That we need to “check our privilege.” Tell me: exactly how are we supposed to vie for an equal society when people like you say we possess a different amount of “privilege”?

            I was born white, male and heterosexual. I had no say in this. I neither won a lottery nor did I participate in one. It was forced on me. My parents were in no sense “poor”, but they struggled to make ends meet and now I, all grown up, struggle to make ends meet. I’m on social welfare, I’ve problems procuring a job and I have health issues. I’m relatively short, I’m not very attractive or in good shape and I don’t have a girlfriend. Still, I apparently have a “privilege” that other people lack.

            I’ve seen feminists use in arguments something called “intersectionality”, which says that depending on what race, gender and sexuality you are, you’re either more or less privileged. Presently I haven’t been able to figure out what I’m supposed to have that other people do not, in particular other people where I live which consist of a variety of different people from different places – though one thing in common we do have is our economical situation.

            “Intersectionality” portends that black people are one of the least privileged, black women even more so, yet when you see them being more successful and definitely having more money than you it’s difficult to see how this ties in to their “privilege”, which according to the list I’m supposed to possess more of.

            Incidentally there was another categorical list made like this, though of another description. Mainly that one race was better than the other. Blacks, again, being at the bottom. It was called the “Four Races” theory. I see “intersectionality” as a similar entity, but in the reverse. The less privilege you have, the more power you have to tell those of more privilege to shut the fuck up. My being a man, obviously I should just “check my privilege” or shut the fuck up.

            Oh, and that’s another thing feminists use. “Mansplaining.”

          • LadyBligh

            Oh, no.

            You poor victim.

            You poor, poor, victim.

            Jesus Christ, what a whiny baby you are. A real man doesn’t bitch about his lot in life. A real man overcomes all the difficult, nasty, mean and unfair.

            No wonder you hate strong women. You’re threatened by them.

          • Pitchguest

            When did I ever say my lot in life was due to feminists or women? When did I ever say I hated women?

            Oh, and a “real” man does? Exactly what is a “real” man to you? Would you object if I had opinions on what constituted a “real” woman? My example on what I’ve experienced was to demonstrate how your argument about “privilege” was obtuse. You apparently took that as an attack on women and feminists and accused me of being a “whiny baby”, when all you’ve done in this thread seemingly is whine and whine and whine. Astounding performance of hypocrisy.

          • LadyBligh

            A real man isn’t threatened by women.

            You are.

            Let me guess: This is the longest a woman has ever talked to you.

          • Sloth

            “Jesus Christ, what a whiny baby you are. A real man doesn’t bitch about his lot in life. A real man overcomes all the difficult, nasty, mean and unfair.

            “A real man isn’t threatened by women.”

            “Let me guess: This is the longest a woman has ever talked to you.”

            “No wonder you guys can’t get a woman!”

            Apparently in the mind of a feminist is OK to be sexist and aggressive as long as you are targeting men.

            This mentality of yours is the exact reason why the MRM exists.Society is ignoring male circumcision, society is ignoring the high male suicide rate, society is ignoring male rape, divorce court bias, murder rate and any form of sexism against men, with the silly excuse that “A real man isn’t threatened by women”,”a real man this, a real man that”.

            Thank you for exposing your own sick mentality LadyBligh.

          • Pitchguest

            Threatened by women? Who’s said anything about being threatened?

            What are you talking about?

          • Matthew Lane

            “A real man isn’t threatened by women.”
            Oh look at that good old fashion gender stereotyping.

          • Incubus

            It’s best to ignore them when they reach this point. She’s posted more that can harm herself than you can ever have done. Like Big Red, she’s clearly stated, in no uncertain terms, that she does not take the suffering of others seriously, and sees no problem with mocking it. We will never change feminists like her, but we will change the world by showing it that feminists are like her. Just leave it be now. She’s done herself in.

          • Betty P Wiggins

            Your argument on privilege demonstrated nothing except that you have no knowledge of what privilege is and that it refers to material structural power systems controlled by one class over another.

          • RubberPunch

            Thank you for your contribution to the suicide gap. I don’t think it’ll work in this particular instance, but your effort has been noted.

          • Chris Mackney

            Most MRAs are after strong women (we actively seek them out as allies), that is women that don’t blame their problems on a mythical Satan (aka patriarchy).

            You are pathetic and weak (I know that doesn’t typically shame women, but it certainly should – they expect it to shame men). Even more so because you think you are’ strong’.

          • Betty P Wiggins

            Patriarchy is mythical? Where do you live where men don’t own and control the markets, the cultural bastions, and the state?

          • Matthew Lane

            The real world: You should visit some time, its really quite nice this time of year.

          • Betty P Wiggins

            The real world is composed of the institutions i just named.

          • Guest

            In Scandinavia. The feminist utopia you seem to want.

          • Kimski

            Illusions of grandeure in a ideological package of hate.

          • Stephen Jones

            A “real man”… wait, what?
            You’re the one embracing traditionalism?!?

          • Kimski

            And shaming tactics is another thing feminists consistently falls back on, whenever their narrative is being countered. Thanks for reminding us all.

          • Michael Corliss

            I’m relatively short, not very attractive, and I don’t make a lot of money. Yet I have been happily married twice (widowed once) to two wonderful, attractive, intelligent women. Then again, I’m not an asshole..

          • Pitchguest

            I have no idea what your situation has to do with what I said, or why it has to do with me being an “asshole.”

          • Betty P Wiggins

            How are you supposed to vie for an equal society while acknowledging you have privilege precisely because it is unequal? Did I read correctly?

            It’s rare to see it stated so outright that males are literally upset that factual reality is mentioned.

            You mention the success of individual black women as if that medically negates that the world is controlled by men and usually white men. Women of color succeeding in the capitalist systems built in white male supremacy against all odds negates these hierarchical systems?

            That makes zero logical sense.

          • Pitchguest

            No, I said how are we supposed to vie for an equal society when people like her exist to say we’re supposed to possess a different amount of privilege.

            I mentioned the success of invidividual black women as an example of how flawed the concept of “intersectionality” is and that I’m apparently supposed to have more privilege than them despite of it all, yet don’t. It’s obtuse. As I said, the other theory proposed by a biologist, the “Four Races” theory, the very first who put people of different races into categories, said White Europeans (Europæus albus) are intelligent and Black Africans (Africanus niger) are stupid.

            It’s monumentally idiotic either way to propose that just because you’re of a certain race, gender and sexuality, you supposedly possess more or less privilege, just as it is to propose that just because you’re of a certain race you’re more or less intelligent. It’s utter bollocks.

            And you definitely show your confirmation bias right off the bat. “White male supremacy”? Good lord.

          • Betty P Wiggins

            On the axis of sex and race you DO have more privilege than they do.

            There are multiple types of oppressions with multiple axes.

            If it’s “monumentally idiotic” to “suggest” (state outright) that sociopolitical oppressions are composed of CLASSES of people (men over women, whites over people. Of color and the indigenous, humans over the planet, etc) you need to come up with some viable explanation for why institutions are controlled by a tiny handful of ultra rich mostly white straight males. This is basic scientific understanding of human social systems.

            “White male supremacy” refers to the ideology of these hierarchical oppressions.

            I look forward to your hypotheses and why you believe all of social science is incorrect in their observations of power systems.

          • Pitchguest

            Then “on the axis of sex and race”, it’s sodding irrelevant. I’m a white, heterosexual male, she’s a black, hetereosexual woman. By the logic of “intersectionality”, I am supposed to be in a better situation. But I am not.

            By the logic of the “Four Races”, Alexander Dumas was not supposed to be intelligent enough, be well-read enough, nor with the ability to write enough, to author “The Four Musketeers.” But he did. (Alexander Dumas was black.)

            It’s bullshit. All of it.

            If class we’re talking about ECONOMICAL class, then I’m with you. But if by class you refer to sex alone, or race alone, or sexuality alone, you’re missing some key points. Money. Power. Status. THAT is what decides class.

            So what if some institutions are controlled mostly by rich white men? It doesn’t prove anything. It doesn’t prove the existence of a “patriarchy”, it doesn’t prove the existence of a “rape culture”, it doesn’t prove the validity of “Schrödinger’s Rapist.” It’s a red herring. Most white men are not rich. If it is the super-rich that you’re after, then you should direct your ire towards THEM. Not to men as a whole.

          • Betty P Wiggins

            No.

            Sociological facts are not “Misandry”.

            Implying males are inherently violently oppressive dominators such that to criticize male supremacy and its institutions is to criticize MALENESS is the far most misandrist view.

          • Pitchguest

            Neither of them are “facts”, nor are they “sociological facts.” I’ve yet to see a peer reviewed source to prove that we live in a “patriarchy” as defined by feminist theory or a “rape culture” where men can rape at their leisure without punishment. Everytime I’ve asked feminists who claim this is reality for evidence have either evaded the question or called me a “misogynist” denying the truth. Just as a Godite would call the godless a “sinner.”

            Implying males are inherently violently oppressive dominators such that to criticize male supremacy and its institutions is to criticize MALENESS is the far most misandrist view.

            What on Earth are you on about?

          • Betty P Wiggins

            It’s a bit like asking for a “peer reviewed source” for evolution. It is THAT basic and broad of a concept. I would ask you where you live where men DONT dominate the state, market, and cultural institutions. I would also ask you which of the dominant paradigms (neoliberalism, colonialism, imperialism, etc) were created by women.

            For specifics, this is an extremely well sourced and basic article for a beginner:

            Anthropological evidence suggests that most prehistoric hunter-gatherer societies were relatively egalitarian, and that patriarchal social structures did not develop until many years after the end of the Pleistocene era, following social and technological innovations such as agriculture and domestication.[12][13][14] According to Robert M. Strozier, historical research has not yet found a specific “initiating event”.[15] Some scholars point to about six thousand years ago (4000 BCE), when the concept of fatherhood took root, as the beginning of the spread of patriarchy.[16][17]

            However James DeMeo argues that a specific initiating event does exist: the geographical record shows that climate change around 4000 BCE led to famines in the Sahara, Arabian peninsula and what are now the Central Asian deserts which then resulted in the adoption of warlike, patriarchal structures in order to secure food sources:

            “Famine, starvation and mass-migrations related to land-abandonment severely traumatised the originally peaceful and sex-positive inhabitants of those lands, inducing a distinct turning away from original matrism towards patristic forms of behaviour.”[18]

            http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriarchy

          • Pitchguest

            But there ARE peer reviewed sources for evolution. Plenty of them. There have also been PLENTY of peer reviewed sources regarding the existence of deities, all of which show the blatant NON-existence of deities.

            If the feminist theory definition of “patriarchy” was such a basic concept, then it ought to have been observed LONG BEFORE the conception of feminism. But it wasn’t. There is the PATRILINEAL patriarchy which HAS been observed many times, but that DOESN’T show that men subjugated and oppressed women, deliberately or otherwise. There have been plenty of cultures that WORSHIPPED women as gods, and plenty of which featured women as gods, but NONE of which showed women as nothing more than chattel.

            The idea that women were worth less than men is less than thousand years old, and since then there have been several reforms to bring women to the status they formerly had. It was extremely unfair that women should lose their rights as they did, and rightfully so they returned bit by bit. Now they have more rights than they ever did, even in the time of Ancient Greece. If you honestly think women today are oppressed and subjugated and have less opportunities than men do, you are delusional.

            If you want to have a serious debate about where we stand on gender equality, you need to get rid of your confirmation bias. Sure there are professions where men dominate, but there are also professions where women dominate. And in my country, there are as many women as there are men in politics. As for female representatives?

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_elected_or_appointed_female_heads_of_government

          • Betty P Wiggins

            You implied that to indict and organize politically against patriarchy is somehow to insult males.

            I find it offensively misandrist to imply males are inherently violent and dominating. This is especially racist considering the few surviving sexually egalitarian indigenous cultures.

          • Pitchguest

            I said that for feminists to imply that we live in a society men have created where men subjugate, oppress and objectify women, is misandrist.

            I, too, find it offensively misandrist to imply that males are inherently violent and dominating. Hence why I object whenever feminists make that claim.

          • Betty P Wiggins

            Well there you have it. Basic scientific historical and archeological facts are “misandrist”.

            This is a type of religious fundamentalism, I think.

            Can you articulate why you interpret indictment of sociopolitical systems and socialization as biological essentialism? They are diametrically-opposed.

          • Pitchguest

            So now we’re talking through history?

            I thought we were talking about the present day, where feminists now exist claiming that we live in a “patriarchy” that subjugate and oppress women?

            You are aware that the patrilineal patriarchy and the feminist theory definition of “patriarchy” is not one and the same, yes? Because I would like to think you’re not that stupid.

          • Kimski

            ^ It’s rewritten Marxist dogma, targeting men instead of the wealthy upper class.

          • Pitchguest

            Neither of them are “facts”, nor are they “sociological facts.” I’ve yet to see a peer reviewed source to prove that we live in a “patriarchy” as defined by feminist theory or a “rape culture” where men can rape at their leisure without punishment. Everytime I’ve asked feminists who claim this is reality for evidence have either evaded the question or called me a “misogynist” denying the truth. Just as a Godite would call the godless a “sinner.”

            Implying males are inherently violently oppressive dominators such that to criticize male supremacy and its institutions is to criticize MALENESS is the far most misandrist view.

            What on Earth are you on about?

          • Betty P Wiggins

            It’s the rare male who becomes an ally in feminist struggles, so I think saying males are complicit in women’s subjugation is accurate.

          • Pitchguest

            The feminist history I’ve read say much more than than the “rare male” becoming an ally in feminist struggles, but maybe you know something I don’t.

            Maybe you can point me to the point in history where the Suffragettes achieved voting rights without the help of their male allies? Or the point in history where feminists achieved the right to have their own car, credit card, etc, without the help of their male allies?

          • Chris Mackney

            Solipsistic much?

            Only see shit on your broken ‘radar’?

            How pathetic.

          • LadyBligh

            I thought you were the one who kept seeing shit, because you have your head up your ass.

          • Chris Mackney

            Retort FAIL.

          • wiier9l

            truth time…

          • BruceMcGlory

            lol you’ve never been laid ever, have you.

          • Pitchguest

            Virgin shaming, are we, Bruce?

            Tsk tsk tsk.

          • wiier9l

            are you still giving blow jobs to your daddy? LOL!

          • LadyBligh

            You’re threatened by women in suits?

            No surprise.

          • Pitchguest

            No, he’s pointing out the slut-shaming aspect of feminism. He’s pointing out that feminists make women feel bad for wearing revealing clothing.

          • Incubus

            Correction: Feminists make women feel bad for wearing revealing clothing, and then claim it’s men doing it to oppress them.

          • LadyBligh

            It was pointing out that women dressing in business suits and being successful is bad.

            You’re fooling no one.

          • Incubus

            Victim complex much?

            Yes, it’s all a conspiracy to get women back in the kitchen! It can’t possibly be that there are any valid criticisms about feminism! Anyone who tries to tell you so must have an ulterior motive!

          • LadyBligh

            Yeah, like I said, you’re fooling no one.

          • Pitchguest

            No, it really, really wasn’t, and it really, really isn’t.

          • wiier9l

            you mad ugly fat dumb cuu uunt? LOL!

          • Kathryn O’Connor

            Try not being allowed to own a credit card until the feminist movements of the 1970s unless you were born with a penis as the reason. Yep. I’m old enough to remember that. You’re just a baby still sucking milk.
            but that’s the kind of crap we’ve had to put up with

          • Incubus

            That’s nice. Now try having your kids taken away because of a lie, and being put in jail for failing to pay more in child support than you make each month. Literally.

            If you had made any attempt to educate yourself about this movement, you would know that the MRM isn’t against women’s rights. It’s specifically against what feminism has become, because modern, mainstream feminism has enacted laws that harm boys and men. You’re just an ignorant bigot who only cares when something effects her, and doesn’t care about anyone else’s rights.

          • Pitchguest

            Hahaha. Yes. The feminist movement of the 70′s was all it took to fix that. That would be the movement consisting of such luminaries as Andrea Dworkin, Valerie Solanas, Robin Morgan and Gloria Steinem? Dworkin who wrote novels where her women avatars thought men were less than pigs, and made such quotes as “marriage is an institution of rape” and, oh, Solanas who shot Andy Warhol in the face.

            Indeed. I can see that the then leaders of that wave of feminists had their priorities straight. But I’m sure you’re right.

            And, of course, the Suffragettes did everything to get the women’s right to vote all by themselves. They had no help from their male allies nor did they actually make arguments to appeal to the better sense of the government at the time to make amends and not just because they were women. I bet Marie Curie even said to herself that she only got the Nobel Prize because she was a woman, not because she actually had done any actual achievements. Damn patriarchy.

          • Betty P Wiggins

            All those things are emergent of patriarchal gender roles and male created socioeconomic systems (which feminists have been indicting for over a century) and as such are not legitimately framed as male “oppression”, no.

            But then MRAs actively deny patriarchy, have no problem with from birth indoctrination into masculine and feminine gender roles, and don’t seem to be anti-capitalist. Nope, just anti-feminist.

            When an MRA rails against male legislatures ILLEGALIZING abortion, then I will believe they have a vested interest in human bodily integrity. But in fact many believe women shouldn’t be able to obtain abortions without male consent, so. Awkwwwward.

            (Also. Women attempt dioxide 3x more often, experience shicidal thoughts more often and at younger ages, and make up next to zero percent of murder-suicides, in which They are most often the “murdered” party.)

          • Pitchguest

            Buzzwords, buzzwords, buzzwords.

            Do you have anything to say besides towing the party line?

            Yes, I suppose feminists have it all worked out. For every ill-conceived notion in the world, they can just blame the “patriarchy” and if men in this society created by men, for men, are hurt, then they can just say that “patriarchy hurts men too.” They’ve covered all the angles. “Deny patriarchy”? You know, there is another entity that other ideologues claim people deny. It’s called “God”. Both are seemingly non-existent, both are without proof.

            Feminists also have this idea that all people who “deny” the existence of the patriarchal society as defined by feminist theory are MRA’s, much like people who “deny” the existence of “God” are called sinners.

            As it happens, I am not an MRA. Never have been, never will be. I’m also not a feminist. Both terms to me are tainted. But I am not as dishonest as to make up lies about what constitutes an MRA and what constitutes a feminist, as I do acknowledge there are radical elements in both.

            Feminists who insist that there exists such a thing as a “patriarchy” are extremists, and MRA’s who believe in the reverse that women are trying create a “matriarchy” are extremists. Lunatics both, in my opinion.

          • Betty P Wiggins

            Patriarchy isn’t a concept of “feminism”, this is basic social science. Where do you live where men don’t dominate societal institutions?

            Maybe you’re confused about suffering vs oppression.

          • Pitchguest

            The feminist theory definition of “patriarchy” is absolutely a concept of feminism. The PATRILINEAL patriarchy, however, is social science and HAS been observed to have happened in many cultures throughout history.

            The PATRILINEAL patriarchy did not do what feminists claim “patriarchy” is all about, and we definitely do not live in either a patrilineal patriarchy nor a “patriarchy” as defined by feminism in this day and age.

          • Betty P Wiggins

            To be honest most modern feminists are expressly apolitical except for things like reproductive rights. They actively advocate assimilation into male created systems, and Judge women’s “progress” by it. Mind-boggling.

          • Pitchguest

            (In addition, your statistics are faulty. The most often “murdered” party are men, both by strangers and in the safety of their own home.)

          • coltov mocktail

            that’s what I love about the internet, it brings out such compassionate understanding in people.

          • wiier9l
          • Kathryn O’Connor

            she’s a blond. She’s therefore dumb.

          • wiier9l

            she’s a WOMAN. therefore she’s DUMB http://i.imgur.com/G5N8Ug8.jpg

          • Stephen Jones

            It is NOT ok to call someone dumb due to their gender. It IS ok to call someone dumb due to their hair colour… providing they are saying something that does not support the ideology of Kathryn O’Connor.

          • wiier9l

            this is for you fa aaggot

          • Stephen Jones

            Oh… you’re just a troll… Carry on, then.
            Just be warned, moderators are blocking those who engage in personal attacks, as you have just done.

          • wiier9l

            cry harder faaa aaggot reeetard lol!http://i.imgur.com/qWwJ5BC.jpg

          • Stephen Jones

            “cry harder faaa aaggot reeetard lol!”

            oh, that’s getting nasty! maybe go with the gay thing for a while. Questioning my sexuality might REALLY get me cryin’!

          • wiier9l

            u still mad faaagggot? lol!!!!

          • Stephen Jones

            It’s not near as hurtful as the first time, you need to switch up your tactics!

          • wiier9l

            u still mad faaagggot? lol!!!!

          • Stephen Jones

            Oh, that’s just hurtful.
            Now tell me something about my mother… that should really get me riled up!

          • wiier9l

            your panties still wet fa aaaggot? LOL! http://i.imgur.com/qWwJ5BC.jpg

        • politicalcynic
        • wiier9l

          truth

          • Kathryn O’Connor

            Oh, the same argument used to not give Blacks rights either. That got trod out again on a pony?

          • wiier9l

            HERE YA GO DUMB BII ITCH
            http://i.imgur.com/G5N8Ug8.jpg

      • Mike Hunt

        Hello David Futrelle, how are you today?

        • Teflon Expat

          Butt hurt?

      • Chiquitobot

        awww sorry, the police case log numbers were released…aww didums. ..

      • Incubus

        Jesus Christ! Auntie Alias is everywhere!

        • Auntie Alias

          :D

      • Incubus

        The source is a letter that feminists have done everything in their power to refute, including such wild claims as that the letterhead is the stationary that appears on the notepads at that hotel, but not the official letterhead used by them.

        When feminists are making up this many wild claims to discredit something, 9 times out of 10 it ends up being true. And actually, that one time that it doesn’t is just something I’m throwing in there to be fair. It doesn’t actually happen.

        • Auntie Alias

          Let’s talk about that letter.

          1. First it was on the AVFM server and then it wasn’t. Why?

          2. First the Detroit police said they’d received no word of threats and today they did an about-face.

          3. The hotel never confirmed with any media source that the letter came from them.

          4. You’re darned right the stationary was suspect. I found PDFs of other letters sent out by Doubletree hotels re Quick Agreements and they all had contact information printed on the stationary.

          The hotel allegedly demanded contractual proof that additional security had been hired and the appropriate liability insurance purchased by June 6. That’s what the fundraising was for. Now it seems like the conference has been moved to another secret facility. I’d be pretty pissed off if I had been a donor seeing how mum AVFM is on the subject. There’s bugger all on the site about it. Who is fooling who?

          • Incubus

            1. The Hilton had a clause in their contract which allowed for them to demand it be removed.

            2. The police sometimes lie about receiving reports while an investigation is ongoing, in order to keep from tipping off the perpetrators. In any event, the fact that they now say the threats have been reported indicates that genuine threats were made. Are you arguing that the police are lying now, but they weren’t lying when they said no threats had been reported?

            3. The hotel probably didn’t want to scare off other guests from booking rooms there. I agree they should be shamed for not reporting this, however.

            4. The article which first published the letter made it clear that contact information was removed to protect the identity of the individual(s) who sent and signed it. There are no grounds for calling it suspect. It’s quite a stretch. And I’ve asked to see the genuine hotel letters feminists have claimed look different from what AVFM received. Every time, the feminists said the same thing you’re saying here: that they got it from Google. I think that speaks for itself as far as how desperately you’re grasping for straws.

          • Auntie Alias

            1. Okay but why did they demand its removal?

            2. No, I’m not claiming the police are lying now.

            3. Okay

            4. I remember the article saying the writer’s identity was removed but not anything about the contact info, by which I mean street address, phone number, fax number, etc. The letter didn’t seem to be written very professionally which is surprising coming from a quality hotel. Yes, I did find other examples from Google. What’s wrong with that?

          • Incubus

            1. I would assume for the same reason they didn’t make a public statement about this, because they wanted to contain it. That’s just a guess. I wouldn’t know, since they obviously exercised their right to keep it private, and I’m not privy to those discussions.

            4. I don’t think I really need to explain what’s wrong with using Google to try to refute a letter that someone has shown you. Google is hardly a tool for finding the proper letterhead for any hotel. And even if it was, you’re still drawing conclusions. You’re assuming it’s always the case that they use the letterhead you found on Google. You’re assuming the letterhead you found on Google isn’t two years old already and they don’t use a different letterhead by now. You’re assuming whoever sent that letter maybe didn’t put as much thought into it as you’re doing now, and maybe they really did just pick up a handy piece of paper that had their letterhead because this was a private discussion. And since it’s meant to be kept private, you can’t really know what letterhead they use for private discourse. Maybe what you found on Google is what they use for public discussions. I shouldn’t really have to explain all the things that are wrong with relying on Google for your evidence that what you’ve been shown is a fake.

          • Auntie Alias

            Even before I looked on Google, I thought the letter was suspect. Yes, the examples I found were pretty old and I understood the format and logos would vary but there’s a distinct lack of professionalism in the AVFM copy. I don’t for a second buy that someone just grabbed a hotel guest version of stationary to send out to a client.

          • Incubus

            I’ve called out unprofessional wording before, and their letter didn’t look unprofessional to me. What looked unprofessional to you?

          • Auntie Alias

            I can’t find a copy of it now.

          • Incubus

            Well do you remember anything that stuck out as sounding unprofessional? I didn’t see anything like that.

            I have the letter saved on my computer, but won’t post it here since the Hilton apparently had a legal right to keep it private. But if you can remember a general part that stuck out as unprofessional, I can post that part and discuss it.

          • Auntie Alias

            I honestly can’t remember the details now.

          • Incubus

            Not even one sentence that struck you as sounding unprofessional? You don’t have to give it to me verbatim, just tell me overall what the sentence was saying.

          • Archy

            http://www.avoiceformen.com/allnews/avfms-camaign-for-free-speech-reaches-25k-goal-in-under-24-hours/ In the comments Paul lists the case numbers to call about the threats, Dave Futrelle has apparently called them and confirmed there were threats and that info is on the wehuntthemammoth site currently.

            Sure is the most dramatic conference I’ve seen setup for a while, so many articles and ruffled feathers. What is next??

          • Teflon Expat

            To the sound of big crow: caww caaaww, the letter, the letter, caaaaww, cawwwww! Wow, such a sick obsession

          • Auntie Alias

            Oh, the irony.

      • Chris Mackney

        This tactic of trying to make MRMs look like they are hyping themselves is failing hard.

        You should go back to stomping your feet in your mammoth echo chamber.

      • johnnyblotus

        The only source for your “facts” seems to be your rectal region.

    • wiier9l
  • Teflon Expat

    Scaring a hotel that feared for the safety of its guests is a feminist ‘equality’ victory. The press across America will be sure to note that today. Furthermore, any attempt by feminists to control the dialogue by suddenly wanting to address men’s issues will be seen as a disingenuous face-saving measure.

    • jesssoul

      I suspect they would rather not lose business and are more concerned about the long-term impacts of hosting a hate group of which you are clearly affiliated than concerns about made up threats only your organization seems to know anything about.

      • Teflon Expat

        Feminists have never caused any known entity to lose business. That legacy continues. Guests will continue to use the hotel as its based on price. Feminists are just added entertainment in a place with next to none.

        • knightrunner

          Notice how they are “someone said that the MRM is a hate group so it must be true.” Lmao.

          • Teflon Expat

            Someone said that the feminists are butt-hurt and an embarrassment to protesters worldwide. Now that is true

          • Kathryn O’Connor

            Butt-hurt. the word little boys use in arguments to derail them but has no effect.

          • Incubus

            The truly ironic thing is that you don’t see the irony. Apparently, you aren’t reading your own side’s comments.

          • Kathryn O’Connor

            I see the irony. and you don’t know which side i’m on.
            For all you know, I could hate both of you.
            Incubus, meet a real succubus.

          • Incubus

            You wrote a few comments about feminism below, so I think I have a good grasp of what side you’re on. I guess succubi can’t compete with a true incubus.

          • Kathryn O’Connor

            You, sir, are not a true incubus. I know them all. You are only a wanna-be.

            I just hate douchey men. All of you come off as douchey. Next you all will be bitching because you can’t get laid for being douchey

          • Kathryn O’Connor

            The Southern Poverty Law Center called MRM a hate group. That’s pretty official.

          • Pitchguest

            Except they didn’t.

            “It should be mentioned that the SPLC did not label MRAs as members of a hate movement; nor did our article claim that the grievances they air on their websites – false rape accusations, ruinous divorce settlements and the like – are all without merit.”

            -SPLC

            But then, taking the words of the SPLC at face value is extremely naive, and stupid, considering they consult the ravings of feminist ideologue David Futrelle. Seeing as he’s a loon, why on earth should anyone take what SPLC says seriously?

          • Betty P Wiggins

            Still waiting for the MRAs to condemn and protest their leader Paul Elam’s violent remarks and rape apologia:

            “I have ideas about women who spend evenings in bars hustling men for drinks, playing on their sexual desires … And the women who drink and make out, doing everything short of sex with men all evening, and then go to his apartment at 2:00 a.m.. Sometimes both of these women end up being the “victims” of rape.

            But are these women asking to get raped?

            In the most severe and emphatic terms possible the answer is NO, THEY ARE NOT ASKING TO GET RAPED.

            They are freaking begging for it.

            Damn near demanding it.

            And all the outraged PC demands to get huffy and point out how nothing justifies or excuses rape won’t change the fact that there are a lot of women who get pummeled and pumped because they are stupid (and often arrogant) enough to walk though life with the equivalent of a I’M A STUPID, CONNIVING BITCH – PLEASE RAPE ME neon sign glowing above their empty little narcissistic heads.”

            http://web.archive.org/web/20111103174336/http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/false-rape-culture/challenging-the-etiology-of-rape/

            “And the answer is, of course, no, I am not going to stop. You see, I find you, as a feminist, to be a loathsome, vile piece of human garbage. I find you so pernicious and repugnant that the idea of fucking your shit up gives me an erection.”

            http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/activism/the-fembots-are-already-bent-out-of-shape/

            “I am a pacifist. I do not advocate violence. But I tell you this. The day I see one of these absolutely incredulous excuses for a judge dragged out of his courtroom into the street, beaten mercilessly, doused with gasoline and set afire by a father who just won’t take another moment of injustice, I will be the first to put on the pages of this website that what happened was a minor tragedy that pales by far in comparison to the systematic brutality and thuggery inflicted daily on American fathers by those courts and their police henchmen.

            It would not even so much be a tragedy as the chickens coming home to roost.”

            http://www.avoiceformen.com/men/fathers/the-family-courts-have-to-go-and-i-mean-right-fucking-now/

          • johnnyblotus

            Hmmm…. Do you mean the same SPLC that was dumped by the FBI as an untrustworthy source for being too politically biased?

          • Masta solanas

            The SPLC targeted the Men’s Rights movement after AVFM exposed the repugnant hatred in the Radfem Hub forum, and Elam posted a reward for those who offer information on some of Radfem Hub’s members. Apparently Radfem Hub, a place even mainstream feminists think is toxic and full of hate, has personal connections with the SPLC.

            Despite Radfem Hub being a legit place of extreme hatred and bigotry, the SPLC damseled the members of Radfem Hub due to Elam exposing them, and the SPLC refused to acknowledge the blatant hatred expressed in Radfem Hub.

            The SPLC is not a trustworthy source. Knowing some inside information on these events, I can’t even trust when they write articles on genuine hate groups such as white supremacists; the goups may not even be white supremacists but depicted as such with great artifice.

            Recently a shooting took place after a leftist wacko saw the Family Research Council on the SPLC’s Hatemap. http://hotair.com/archives/2013/04/24/frc-shooter-i-targeted-them-because-splc-list-said-they-were-anti-gay/

            “Family Research Council (FRC) officials released video of federal
            investigators questioning convicted domestic terrorist Floyd Lee Corkins
            II, who explained that he attacked the group’s headquarters because the
            Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) identified them as a “hate group”
            due to their traditional marriage views.”

            As anyone can see, the SPLC uses its waning legitimacy to target entities who are enemies of the left by smearing them as “Hate groups.” This irresponsible behavior on the SPLC’s part leads to violence, in this case the death threats made to the Doubletree Hotel.

            Even though the Men’s Rights Movement was never declared a hate group by the SPLC, the SPLC writing an article on it was interpreted and skillfully used by feminists to smear the Men’s Rights Movement; just as they irresponsibiliy did by falsely associating Elliot Rodgers with the MRM.

      • politicalcynic

        Proof that it’s a hate group? Other than you believe it and a satirical piece from several years back?

        Proof that you have a right to silence things that YOU think are “terrible? Because the ACLU says not on the subject (perhaps you should read their website on the subject of free speech)

        WRONG: The police report numbers were publicly provided (you can find them rather easily) and in fact one of your OWN (Mr. Futrelle) has recently posted that he CONFIRMED threats were reported to the DPD.

        Oh wait. Sorry. I forgot. Name calling and “personal fear” take precedence over facts. My bad….

        We are judged as a society not by how we treat those with whom we agree, but rather by how we treat those with whom we DISAGREE.

        As feminists against censorship once pointed out-when you use your power to censor others, you become the oppressor.

        And I for one would like to thank feminists in the US for proving just how oppressive their ideology can be.

        • Kathryn O’Connor

          Southern Poverty Law Center has declaired it a hate group. that’s pretty official

          • Incubus

            No, it didn’t, actually. It just made false claims about there being a woman-hating culture within the MRM.

          • Kathryn O’Connor

            If there isn’t a women hating culture, then why have the MRM made such douchey statements such as, “Fat chicks getting raped should be grateful.” ?

          • Incubus

            It hasn’t.

          • librtee_dot_com

            Notice how you didn’t cite which MRA specifically said that?

            I’ve googled the ‘Fat chicks getting raped should be grateful.’ and various permutations of the phrase.

            I read a lot of Feminist/Fat Acceptance Tumblr blogs – all quoting, just like you, those exact same words. All, just like you, without any sort of source or link whatsoever. Every single time.

            So apparently, ‘fat chicks should be grateful for being raped’ is something that all MRAs say, and yet no actual individual MRAs have ever said.

            And this is just one of a thousand examples of why the Feminist movement has so little credibility. The entire basis of your movement consists of claims that have gained great strength bouncing around your echo chamber ten thousand times, yet if you stop to examine them and find where they come from, the trail disappears somewhere inside the echo chamber.

            1/4 girls are raped in college, patriarchy privileges all men at the expense of all women, MRAs are a hate movement – all of these are considered ‘true’ because they have been repeated often enough, but spend the time verifying any of them outside Feminist media, and you’ll be left with a handful of sand.

            I’m particularly skeptical of the ‘fat girls should be grateful’ quote, because someone else pasted it on this very page, just like you giving it as the best available example of how awful the MRA is. And this strong example of the MRA’s awfulness is at worst a simple lie, at best something some YouTube troll typed back in 2007 or whatever and has been bouncing around the femosphere ever since as a representative example of MRA discourse.

          • Daisydays

            This is from the About section of A Voice for Men – a part where they’re clearly *trying* to put on a good face – To push for an end to rape hysteria, DV hysteria and false allegations
            Associating rape and DV with the word “hysteria” is misogynistic as that word stems from Freud’s work that labeled trauma symptoms as a woman’s medical condition. This rhetoric is sublterather than overt but it is there and it is hateful and damaging. Men’s Rights Groups only exist because women are pushing for equality and these groups are uncomfortable with the shift towards equality.

          • Kimski

            “Men’s Rights Groups only exist because women are pushing for equality”

            Yeah, right. Sure they do.. o.0

            http://agentorangefiles.com/

          • Daisydays

            If you’re going to label groups as “radfems” and then call them “unreliable”, how can I have any sort of productive conversation w/you?

          • Kimski

            Check your own comment above:
            “and these groups are uncomfortable with the shift towards equality.”

            I just pointed out that you have the greatest opponents against true equality among your own ranks. Even NOW is effectively lobbying against share parenting, and has done so succesfully for years. How’s that for “equality for women” in your book?

          • Daisydays

            And anyone who wishes ill upon men is not a feminist.

          • Kimski

            NAFALT arguments are irrelevant, when ENOUGH feminists are exactly like that. Check the recent example #EndFathersDay.

          • Jajamola88

            That hashtag was a hoax from 4chan in order to make feminists look bad. The whole story’s on Know Your Meme.

            Then again, you sound like the kind of person who would gladly fall for it even if you knew it was fake.

          • Eric Coan

            Yes agreed. Also any person who wishes ill towards women is likewise a despicable person.

            I find forums like this to be a real bummer. There is so much anger between men and women. It is reality and that is too bad.

            I went to a women’s rights rally / demonstration once in college. I figured it was a good thing to support.

            I was called a rape enabler directly and had one woman throwing staples (of all things) at my head. I found several in my hair in the shower that evening. LOL

            My conclusion was that I would never associate with an organization or movement that vilified a group (men) that I am a part of. Why would I? Doesn’t sound healthy for me.

            The situation was so polarizing that I never felt comfortable around out spoken feminists again. Not because I have a problem with women’s rights, but rather that I just don’t want to be treated like I am guilty of so many evil things.

          • Matthew Lane

            “Associating rape and DV with the word “hysteria” is misogynistic as that word stems from Freud’s work that labeled trauma symptoms as a woman’s medical condition.”

            No, it comes from the common usage of hysteria: An its also 100% accurate in that feminism does in fact sponsor rape hysteria.

            but the fact that you have to play silly semantics games is better evidence than anything I could demonstrate.

            “This rhetoric is sublterather than overt but it is there and it is hateful and damaging.”

            I think you may be mistaking the word subtle for the term “invented out of whole cloth.”

            Now I’m going to sit here & wait to see how you spin the usage of the word “cloth” into some sort of rape apologia.

          • Jimbo Jones

            Claiming the term rape hysteria to be misogynistic is rather gynocentric of you.

            It’s gynocentric because more men are raped anually than women are in the united states. The reason for this is because the US prison population is overwhelmingly male, where the majority of these rapes occur.

            Feminism ignores this fact, feminism ignores the fact that most of those incarcerated are men, and fails to promote any action to help men out as a gender to better themselves.

          • John Alessandro

            With all due respect, we more than welcome true equality……..just not sure you can handle it; a land of true equality is not a place where princesses who pout and whine daily about their rough lot in life could ever make a go of it

          • Sloth

            I’m sorry, but you are absolutely deluded.

          • Kathryn O’Connor

            No. I’ve lived what the feminist are saying. I’ve experienced it.
            YOu’re just deluding yourselves. You seem to feel threatened by giving another group equal rights and can’t take what your gender dishes out

          • Matthew Lane

            “and can’t take what your gender dishes out”

            So you admit to your own group committing wrong doings?

          • Kathryn O’Connor

            Not wrong. I don’t think fighting your oppressor is wrong. I just noticed men can’t take what they dish out. this proves it.

          • Matthew Lane

            “I don’t think fighting your oppressor is wrong. I just noticed men can’t take what they dish out. this proves it.”

            I’m not sure if you’ve thought this through. If you think men can’t take what they dish out, that means that you as a woman are the ones doing the dishing out in a format that is the same as the men were “dishing out.”

            An you also call men oppressors, so if men were oppressors who can’t take what they dish out & we know this because women are now dishing it out, then it must follow that women are oppressors.

            Is this not the case? I mean, you’ve set out the ground work pretty well. You are an oppressor, oppressing men.

          • Kimski

            Boom!!!

          • Matthew Lane

            Logic: Because thinking is hard.

          • Kimski

            Yes, and this one is bragging about her high IQ below. Maybe she should just change that to ‘cognitive dissonance’, and we’d all agree.

          • Sloth

            The irony is strong here.

            “You seem to feel threatened by giving another group equal rights”

            Are you serious?The men’s right movement is nothing more than feminism for men.Seeking equality where bias,prejudice happen against men.Saying that they don’t want equal rights while trying to censor them for wanting equal rights is so damn ironic it’s laughable.

          • Kathryn O’Connor

            MEn already had equality. DId you know until the 1970s, women weren’t allowed to own a credit card without a men’s name? It was the feminist movement that changed that. in the 1970s.

          • Kimski

            Yep, men had the kind of “equality” that comes with being obligated to go into war, which women didn’t want to do. Pretty hard to vote from the trenches while someone is firing at you, wouldn’t you think?

            Credit cards were first promoted to traveling salesmen (more common in that era) for use on the road.

            I wonder how many travelling saleswomen there were back in the 50′es and 60′es, when it was a lot more dangerous to travel on the roads alone.

            Also, in order to actually get a credit card, you had to have the necessary finances to back up whatever you purchased, which most women didn’t at that time, because they CHOSE to be stay at home moms, exactly because there where more safety in that choice.

            As safety in society expanded, women in increasing numbers chose to work outside of the home, and thus increasingly needed credit cards too. But who created a more safe environment for women, while putting themselves in harms way, in the first place?

            Certainly not feminists, because at that time they were mostly just a fringe movement, bitching and whining in the universities.

            Nowhere in the History of Credit Cards is the feminist movement even mentioned as a link. It’s just more propaganda from the usual suspects.

            http://inventors.about.com/od/cstartinventions/a/credit_cards.htm

          • Matthew Lane

            “MEn already had equality. DId you know until the 1970s, women weren’t allowed to own a credit card without a men’s name?”

            Bullshit. It was illegal even in 1970 to have such a program…. The fact that my grand mother had one also puts your statement to the lie.

          • Jajamola88

            And yet, I never see MRAs talk about anything besides how awful feminism is. Just shut up and actually help the men! They need you!

          • politicalcynic

            Really-you mean like the 60% of college students who are women? The fact that 60% of US consumer wealth is controlled by women? The fact that 2/3-3/4 of every healthcare dollar spent worldwide is spent on women?

            Yeah…your right. How dare we suggest equality for EVERYONE might be a good idea. Shocking…

          • Daisydays

            I think if it is true that 2/3 of health care is spent on women it is b/c of how overpriced health care is and that women require extensive (and invasive) health care exams. PLEASE DON’T tell me you’re resentful/jealous of our annual GYN exams – it’s really not fun and under many insurance plans, you still have to pay for at least part of it. The fact that women’s health care costs more also means that women pay more out of pocket for what the insurance doesn’t cover. And while women may be enrolled in college more, we still make only make 81 cents for every dollar a man makes. http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2012/ted_20120110.htm

          • Kimski

            “The fact that women’s health care costs more also means that women pay more out of pocket for what the insurance doesn’t cover.”

            You completely dismiss the fact that the entire health industry was based on men’s work and inventions, just like it is sustained by men’s work, and the vast amount of fundings used to set it up in the first place, was initially taken from male income taxes.

            And ,FYI, the fact that 2/3-3/4 of every healthcare dollar spent worldwide is spent on women goes way beyond GYN exams, and the proof can be seen in the reduced life span of males on the entire planet.
            We’re literally “oppressing” women until it kills us.
            /sarcasm off.

          • Matthew Lane

            “I think if it is true that 2/3 of health care is spent on women it is b/c of how overpriced health care is and that women require extensive (and invasive) health care exams.”

            Actually no: 2/3s of health care budget is spent on women, because feminist groups have lobbied for womens only health programs at a federal level, an then allow women to also take from the unisex side of the equation too.

            You LITERALLY have twice the medical services that men use & that’s why more is spent on women.

          • Kathryn O’Connor

            Women care about their health more then men. always have.
            and men control the wealth period.

          • Kimski

            And feminists won’t discuss any issues that make them uncomfortable. Period.

          • Eric Coan

            I do hate when women say things like “if he was any kind of a real man he would…” Or “a real man would never…”

            I think that women trying to use the title “Real Man” or whatever and then giving it out and retracting it as they please is rather sexist.

            I would never in a million years say that a woman “isn’t a real woman.” What right would I have to tell a woman if she qualifies as a woman or not?

          • Kimski

            Exactly. And what personal knowledge would you even base it on?

            It’s a shaming tactic used to make you comply or shut up, that’s all.-Whichever is preferable to the woman using it in the situation at hand.
            And as such, it is an attempt to inflict emotional pain to make you do her bidding, without questioning the reason or the level of aggression it’s delivered with.
            It’s all about control, basically.

          • dadada

            Gah. Other than the first half of your statement “Women care about their health more then men. always have. ” being a completely bias and harmful, it’s not ‘men’ that control wealth. A lot of these issue are to do with class inequality rather than gender inequality. Let the poor fight amongst themselves.

          • Stephen Jones

            Holy crap! That IS a douchey statement!
            I’ve never heard that before.
            If that was a statement endorsed by the MRM in general, I’d know. If that was a common statement made by users posting on AVfM, I’d have heard it before.
            At present, you, Katheryn, are the only person I have heard that particularly douchey statement from.
            Well done.

          • Incubus

            The feminist posters on this website seem to have a habit of making up oppression for themselves to fight against. It’s a terrible thing to be lonely.

          • Kathryn O’Connor

            So, women’s oppression around the world is made up?
            YOu’re the deluded one.

          • Matthew Lane

            Women & feminism are not synonyms for each other. No one said there aren’t oppressed women, what was said is “The feminist posters on this website seem to have a habit of making up oppression for themselves to fight against.”

            An that statement is objectively true.

          • Pitchguest

            That’s not what he said. But nice try.

          • John Alessandro

            Nobody said “around the world”…..c’mon try to keep up, it’s not that hard

          • Chris Mackney

            “I’ll take ‘I bet women think that about other women more than men do’ for a thousand Alex”

          • Jade Davis

            No one ever made that statement within the MRM.

          • politicalcynic

            Back to the whole Satire thing as well. As expected….

          • bookguitarguy

            IF THERE ISN’T A MAN-HATING CULTURE in America, WHY HAVE FEMINISTS MADE VIOLENT AND PSYCHOTIC COMMENTS LIKE “KILL ALL MEN”, “ALL MEN ARE RAPISTS”, “MEN WHO ARE FALSELY ACCUSED OF RAPE CAN BENEFIT FROM THE EXPERIENCE”, and TOO MANY others to list here (including FEMDOM and other violent, psychotic behavior)??? Show us some “EQUALITY,” PLEASE, instead of the MALE-HATING HYPOCRISY feminists have been practicing for the last 50 years or more!!!!!!!!!

          • Eric Coan

            That is a nasty thing to say, you are right. To be fair though, I have heard die hard feminists say that “all men hate all women” and “all men contribute to rape culture”

            That appears to just be the more extreme feminists, not all of them. In much the same way judging all men that mention or are involved in anything that might be described as men’s rights is a bit of an unfair absolute.

          • jjbees

            The Southern Poverty Law center withdrew that claim pretty quickly.

          • Daisydays

            I don’t think they ever labeled them a hate group so they didn’t withdraw it but they did say they are keeping an eye on them due to hateful messages they purport. Good job twisting the facts though, jjbees!

          • Kimski

            They completely backed away from their initial claim, and it doesn’t make any difference in the first place, because SPLC is financially funded by the RadFems through donations, which makes them totally unreliable.

          • Daisydays

            Where’s their initial claim? I have never seen any mention of that.

          • Kimski

            And yet here you are, spreading fallacies and lies right and left, without even the slightest hint of knowledge about what you’re talking about, beyond hearsay.
            Well, done. You certainly fit the profile of the average feminist. Next you’re going to claim it’s all about equality, right?
            Do your fact checking once in a while, okay? Saves others a lot of time from going over the same lies time and again…and again.

          • bookguitarguy

            EXACTLY. The SPLC is, in ITSELF, an anti-male, anti white, anti-anyone who’s not a flaming ultraliberal HATE GROUP, and should be investigated and shut down… I’m pretty sure the FBI has a pretty long file on them, and those who support them.

          • bookguitarguy

            How about, “keeping an eye on FEMINISTS and FEMINIST ORGANIZATIONS due to hateful messages” they spout on a DAILY basis?? Please ask for examples, so I can supply you with a very long list, such as killallmen and the S.C.U.M. Manifesto. Is the SPLC keeping an eye on THEM??? Highly f#cking unlikely. Feminists like YOU, and the SPLC are liars and hypocrites of the highest magnitude, and you deserve to be exposed as such. Equality before the law is the LAST thing you’re after, or you’d be stepping up to address rampant discrimination against men, and pressuring feminists to take responsibility for their abuses and the pain they inflict upon men (and boys in our schools, for that matter). HYPOCRITE!!!!

          • http://redharveysworld.blogspot.com Gina Stump

            Feminists are not hateful, but after reading several of your posts, you certainly seem to be.

            When you say things like this, you lose a lot of credibility (not that you had much to begin with): “Let’s stay focused on men’s rights issues, and the conference, and not waste our efforts responding to baseless accusations from bitter, lonely spinsters who are past their prime.”

            I’m a feminist at 28 years old (past my prime, obviously), and a married woman (another lonely spinster). Plenty of women and men, younger than my old age, identity as feminists as well.

            You can conflate the cases of teacher-student abuse from woman to “assaults stemming from a feminist agenda”, but realistically, masculine ideals (notice how I didn’t say men, because men and women can have masculine ideals) have done far more damage over the course of history. Masculine ideals can be associated with rape, slavery, genocide, hate crimes, imperialism, and race/class/gender oppression.

            If masculine ideals are acknowledged as damaging, and the acknowledgment can upset you so, consider why that is. Is it because you feel you’ll lose some sort of masculine-equated power in the event masculinity (and femininity) dissolve, creating something wholly peaceful, but completely alien to a dually-gendered society like ours?

          • Chris Mackney

            At this point, it is pretty irrelevant what SPLC declares unless it is its own invalidity.

          • Guest

            Exactly. Even the FBI won’t use them anymore, and they’re financially supported by the RadFem’s, which is likely the main reason for the FBI decision.

          • Betty P Wiggins

            ROFL radfems (most of whom are anti-capitalist and anti-state) support the FBI? Where do you come up with this? xD

          • Pitchguest

            No, I think he was saying the SPLC is supported by radfems.

          • Kimski

            Yes, financially. They set up a fundraiser on their homepage, specifically with the SPLC in mind.

          • Kimski

            Keep laughing, useful sheep, while you brush up on your ability to read correctly.

            http://whatmenthinkofwomen.blogspot.dk/2012/03/are-splc-supporters-being-lied-to.html

          • bookguitarguy

            ROFL that you could say something so dumb, by not reading carefully and thinking about what you’re reading. But grateful that you reminded us that Radical Feminists are anti-capitalist and anti-state, in addition to being anti-men.

          • johnnyblotus

            You mean the same SPLC that was dumped by the FBI as an untrustworthy source for being too politically biased?

          • Daisydays
          • bookguitarguy

            HA!!! I hadn’t even seen your somment when I posted mine about the FBI, above. Thanks for the info!!

          • John Martin

            Southern Poverty Law Center is a hate group.

          • bookguitarguy

            LOL. I hope this is tongue-in-cheek, and not to be taken seriously!!! The SPLC has no credibility or objectivity whatsoever, they themselves are a hate group against anything having to do with white males, and others who are not ultraliberals as they are!! The SPLC calling A Voice For Men or any men’s rights group a “hate group” is like Ronald Reagan calling the Soviet Union the “Evil Empire”, or George Bush calling Iran the “Axis of Evil”. I guess if George Bush said it, it MUST be true… yet even if something IS “official”, that doesn’t mean it’s not bullsh#t. Haven’t you ever listened to a politician’s speech? Those are pretty official too!!! Please think a little more deeply before inflicting such ignorance on your readers… seriously.

          • Darth Jader

            You have to be a supreme retard to consider a politically motivated and radfem funded blog group to be “official”

            ROFL

          • John Alessandro

            This is a hilarious statement; It’s official? What are they a fu#&ing scientific organization that is the official go to group when it comes to “thought police” adolescents like yourself? Try not to sound like a 4 year old with your finger buried up your nose and adults might take you seriously one day.

      • coltov mocktail

        a hate group? this is the typical slanderous and baseless accusation made to insure that a popular opinion is left unchallenged. go try again.

        • Kathryn O’Connor

          Southern Poverty Law Center says that MRM is a hate group.

          • Incubus

            Southern Poverty Law Center says that, in fact, they never stated it was a hate group. They have specifically come out and made this clarification because of feminist liars such as yourself.

          • Kathryn O’Connor

            I don’t lie. I’m just quoting.

            In light of the recent shootings in Santa Barbara, MRM really looks like a hate group

          • Pitchguest

            Oh, really? Considering that Rodger wasn’t actually an MRA, that’s a bit strange. Moreover, if I remember correctly, more men than women were victims of his rampage. But do go on. And what about the recent shootings in Oregon, does that make the MRM look like a hate group? One man dead, another man injured?

            And what do you think about this shooting back in April, 2013?

            http://hotair.com/archives/2013/04/24/frc-shooter-i-targeted-them-because-splc-list-said-they-were-anti-gay/

            Wow. Because of the SPLC? They must be a hate group, too.

            Or maybe they were all mentally unhealthy people in need of psychiatric help. Who knows.

          • Betty P Wiggins

            The only reason more men than women were killed is because the sorority house he targeted was LOCKED.

          • Pitchguest

            So? That doesn’t erase the reality of the situation. More men than women died. His manifesto mentions his hatred towards both men and women both, yet feminists (or should I say certain feminists to be fair?) have chosen to exploit this tragedy to spin it into a misogynist narrative.

            He was a severely disturbed young man, with an inflated sense of entitlement and an extreme form of narcissism. He had also been prescribed anti-psychotic pills but had refused to take them. I don’t think looking through his manifesto, his YouTube videos or his affiliations will do much to narrow down the “cause” of his attack.

          • Pitchguest

            And you evaded my question about the other shooting back in 2013 that was supposedly inspired by the SPLC. Should they, too, be called a hate group? Hmm?

          • Masta solanas

            The first phase of his plan was torture and kill men, it was his “vengeance on men” phase. Evidently he wasn’t good on luring men back to his apartment so he could torture and murder them, so he just settled for his three roommates.

            He also wanted to kill everyone in Isla Vista.

            He even opined on what it would be like to kill off all the men and have all the women for himself.

            Elliot even brandished his gun when he confronted a random woman during his rampage, but didn’t kill her.

          • politicalcynic

            Saying the SPLC said something that we know it did not-after you’ve been informed of that fact-is lying. If you aren’t a liar, please retract your inaccurate statement.

          • Incubus

            No, feminism looks like a hate group for stomping all over Rodger’s victims to try to promote their agenda. The arguments it’s put forward trying to connect him to the MRM are just ridiculous. Because he was subscribed to Pick-Up Artist channels on Youtube? Seriously?!

            Meanwhile, those people who have actually put real effort into trying to understand him have seen he was clearly a child who had suffered a lot, and had grown up with some neglectful parents and with a cruel stepmother who constantly belittled him. You know, because analysis of a person’s childhood is generally understood to be a more thoughtful and more accurate analysis than “The MRM (that he wasn’t a part of) did it to him!”

          • Nunya Bidness

            He was never an MRA. He visited Pick Up Artist groups.

          • Pitchguest

            ANTI-Pick Up Artists groups, at that.

            He wasn’t affiliated with either the PUA or the MRA. He was just a nut. A nut who cracked.

          • Kimski

            Your just quoting hearsay based on quote mining , would be the correct definition, actually.

          • Chris Mackney

            “If you tell a lie big enough and keep
            repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be
            maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from
            the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus
            becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to
            repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus
            by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

            -Joseph Goebbels

          • Kathryn O’Connor

            and the guy shooting chicks from his BMW for not sleeping with him…that’s all a lie? That didn’t happen?

          • Matthew Lane

            You mean the guy who killed 4 guys & 2 women? That guy?

          • Betty P Wiggins

            He killed his roommates and another male because they got in the way. He said as much about his roommates in his manifesto plan (you know, the one where he outlines wanting to starve all women to death in concentration camps to “purify” the earth because none f*cked him).

            He deliberately went to a sorority house but wasn’t able to enter so he turned to shoot women in the street.

            Have you read none of his writings and nothing about the incident?

          • Matthew Lane

            You didn’t actually read his manifesto, did you.
            If you did you’d know he had no master plan he just snapped. His manifesto also said he hated men who were more successful than him, which was essentially everyone.
            He didn’t kill because he hated women, he killed because he was a fruit loop.
            Same way Dark Knight Rises didn’t cause the deaths of people in Aurora, nor did the SPLC cause the deaths of people at the FRC.
            Now please stop using this tragedy as a spring board for your ideology. Its dishonest & you know it.

          • Betty P Wiggins

            Every page. Much of it indistinguishable from many misogynist forums.

            He had a manifesto and “just snapped”? Lolwut?

            He planned this for over a year. The cops came after his mother saw one of his videos and he wrote about how nervous he was that his plans would be foiled. He wasn’t diagnosed with a mental illness of any kind. If someone wrote a manifesto hating Jews or blacks and then Shot up a synagogue or black youth group would you call it a mental illness? What is it that accounts for SIXTY NINE of the last 70 mass shooters being male, 44 white male?

            http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map

            He hated men “more successful” than him because he perceived them as having more access to women’s bodies, which he himself felt entitled to.

          • Pitchguest

            Oh, for crying out loud. ONE school shooter out of many that mentions his hate for women in a video, and suddenly we’re dealing with a misogynist shooting epidemic. What caused the shooter at Virginia Tech to snap? What triggered the shooter at Aurora? The most recent shooting in Oregon claimed the life of one man and injured another. Was this another case of misogyny?

            His family said he had been prescribed anti-psychotic medicine. This is evidence that he had been diagnosed with SOMETHING to do with mental illness, as to what KIND or how severe is unknown. In any case, he didn’t take them as was recommended.

            It’s so predictable, people see opportunities to milk their pet peeves whenever a tragedy strikes that fits with their narrative. A school shooting occurs, the media sees it as an opportunity to attack video games. A school shooting occurs with a man who expresses hatred for women (and men), and feminists find an opportunity to say we live in a misogynist culture and that “women have had enough.” Fuck. Off.

          • Betty P Wiggins

            Of course this tragedy is being used as an example of woman hating. A man thought he was entitled to women’s bodies and tried to shoot up a sorority.

          • Pitchguest

            Erm, yeah, he also said he wanted to exterminate all men to be the only one left alive and lure men to his apartment to flay them.

            According to his family, he was prescribed anti-psychotic medicine but refused to take it. He wasn’t exactly in his right mind. To take anything he said in his manifesto and his videos at face value is gullible. Once the media picked it up, they tried to form a consensus between this school shooter and other school shooters and they found that many of them played violent video games. Hence, the cause of the school shooting were violent video games. How very predictable. People exploiting a tragedy to fuel an agenda. Apparently feminists aren’t adverse to the same tactic.

          • Betty P Wiggins

            69 of the last 70 mass shooters have been male. What is this mysterious disease called if not masculinity?

          • Pitchguest

            Yes. Masculinity. Amazing how there haven’t been more incidents like this if the shootings were the cause of a “disease” called “masculinity.”

          • Stephen Jones

            Masculinity is a disease?
            Isn’t that what traditionalists used to say about homosexuality?
            Are you sure you don’t want to retract that claim?

          • Betty P Wiggins

            Masculinity is a social construct with specific value systems.

            Homosexuality is not.

          • Stephen Jones

            mas·cu·line [mas-kyuh-lin] Show IPA
            adjective
            1.
            pertaining to or characteristic of a man or men

          • Incubus

            Glad to know black widow spiders eating their mates is a social construct. Do feminists seriously not understand science at all?

          • Betty P Wiggins

            Do you remember WHY he also mentions exterminating males though? Because then he would have all the women to himself. (As if 3.5 billion women would be ruled over by him.)

            His perception of women as things to which he was entitled was the beginning and end of his rage.

          • Pitchguest

            Yes, and Ted Bundy said he ate the brains of his victims to gain their power. I don’t take the ravings of madmen at their word.

          • Nunya Bidness

            And he was sick and a psycho. I’m an MRA for one reason – I want to be in my children’s life. I never did anything to hurt anyone. I’ve have paid everything and the law simply gives me and my children no regard.

            That’s the typical MRA. They want rights for fathers.

          • Love Shark Baby

            Whenever I find myself arguing with one simple-minded person, trying to get her to see things differently, I realize it’s time to step away from the computer

          • jesssoul

            Are you actually quoting the Nazi’s top propaganda man? Now I see where AVfM gets its PR inspiration. Fitting I suppose.

          • Pitchguest

            He’s not quoting in favour of it, he’s quoting it to show how people still use his tactics.

          • jesssoul

            Looks like AVfM is pretty good at it to me.

          • Pitchguest

            I don’t know. Not versed in things AVfM.

            What about “patriarchy,” though? Or “rape culture”? Lies that have been repeated enough times that people believe them without question? Aren’t those examples of Goebbels-esque propaganda techniques made flesh?

          • jesssoul

            If you are actually saying patriarchy and rape culture do not exist, that those of us who say they do only believe it because others’ have told us so, when in fact, we live it every day, then I believe you are the embodiment of Goebbels’ philosophy – keep telling yourself – and others, all the lies you want. Men can dismiss it all they want, because they are the benefactors of patriarchy and in most cases, act in inappropriate ways towards women because of rape culture. Simply stating these things don’t exist, ad nauseam, doesn’t negate their existence, and the men and women who choose to simply believe they don’t becasue of whatever AVfM says, are exactly the types of people Goebbels took advantage of.

          • Pitchguest