muckraker report

Gov. Snyder lied: Flint water switch was not about saving money, records suggest

Photo by Steve Neavling.

Photo by Steve Neavling. 

By Steve Neavling
Motor City Muckraker 

The Flint water crisis that led to thousands of people being poisoned began because state officials maintained it would save the cash-strapped city money by disconnecting from the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department (DWSD) and using a different source.

But it turns out, DWSD offered the state-controlled city a deal that would have saved Flint more money by staying with Detroit.

An e-mail obtained by Motor City Muckraker shows the deal would have saved the city $800 million over 30 years, which was 20% more inexpensive than switching to the Karegnondi Water Authority.

A high-ranking DWSD official told us today that Detroit offered a 50% reduction over what Flint had been paying Detroit. In fact, documents show that DWSD made at least six proposals to Flint, saying “the KWA pipeline can only be attributed to a ‘political’ objective that has nothing to do with the delivery – or the price – of water.”

Gov. Rick Snyder

Gov. Rick Snyder

The offer by DWSD raises serious questions about whether Gov. Rick Snyder was lying when he insisted the water switch was motivated by saving money for Flint, which was under the control of a state emergency manager.

“When compared over the 30 year horizon the DWSD proposal saves $800 million dollars or said differently – saves 20% over the KWA proposal,” then-DWSD Director Sue McCormick said in the e-mail dated April 15, 2013.

The e-mail was first obtained by the Bill Johnson Group, a Detroit-based media consulting firm, and confirmed today by DWSD.

“If Snyder had accept this deal, the catastrophe would have been avoided,” Bill Johnson said.

What’s more, an engineering firm hired by the state’s Department of Treasury released a study in February 2013 that expressed concerns about the financial and operational risks of building the KWA pipeline, which had already cost 24% more than originally projected, and that’s not including anticipated cost overruns in the future.

5 disturbing revelations from Gov. Snyder’s e-mails about Flint water crisis

Then-state Treasurer Andy Dillon signed off on the KWA deal in April 2013, which ultimately led to the emergency manager deciding to draw water from the Flint River until the city connected to a new regional system.

Soon after the switch, Flint residents began complaining that they were getting sick from the water. State officials dismissed the complaints, saying the discolored, foul-tasting water was just “aesthetic” and posed no health hazards, despite two studies that showed elevated lead levels, especially in children.

Finally, in October 2015, after thousands of residents were poisoned by lead, state officials acknowledged they erred.

“I believe now we made a mistake,” then-DEQ Director Dan Wyant, who resigned in December, wrote to Snyder on Oct. 18. “Because of what I have learned, I will be announcing a change in leadership in our drinking water program.”

Anonymous declares war against Gov. Snyder; cyberattacks confirmed

Saying he was sorry for the mistake, Snyder pledged full transparency during his State of the State address last week and released e-mails related to the water crisis from 2014 and 2o15. Curiously, he refused to release e-mails from 2013, which would have showed why state officials decided to make the switch from DWSD to the KWA.

Now it seems clear why Snyder wouldn’t release the e-mails: They would have revealed that the switch was not about saving money.

So what was it about? Some have suggested that Snyder was motivated by a desire to break up DWSD and ultimately privatize it. In the summer of 2015, DWSD was split into two entities: the DWSD and the Great Lakes Water Authority.

Others have suggested that Snyder wanted to start fracking operations along a new pipeline.

Snyder’s office didn’t return calls for comment.

The e-mail about the proposal:


Screen Shot 2016-01-23 at 11.02.34 PM

Steve Neavling

Steve Neavling lives and works in Detroit as an investigative journalist. His stories have uncovered corruption, led to arrests and reforms and prompted FBI investigations.

  • Liz

    Hope not to late to join in on subjects. How about a qualified person verify money given to industries in order to support clean water in Flint. Someone must have decided to use improvement of the water lines inorder to benefit from funds never spent where the money was to go. Wher is it and who has it? Why did it take Flint water system employees and many politicians in the know for 2 years play “Pass the Puck”? We do have a “Whistle Blower Program”. It is completely confidential.

    Since, entities clear up and down the political pathway have know of problems in Michigan, Ohio, etc., “Govener Grandholm”, ++++++++ all the other Weebles, And, even Hillary Clinton. Absolutely no one cared to pay attention, or follow-up, and or already use previous moneies Taxpayers have been harnessed with to improve upon the infastruture? Questions go on and on. Now, I think Michigan needs to investigate any and all known caveties they know may become hazardous and kill your love ones. Really, what else is are local to state government ignoring?

  • ja836

    Recall him. The residents of Michigan are Snyder’s boss and if any employee had done this he/she would have been fired immediately. Recall petition has been approved: http://www.stopsnyder.com. And let’s start a Michigan Mom March in Lansing on Mother’s Day!!

  • ja836

    Recall him. The residents of Michigan are Snyder’s boss and if any employee had done this he/she would have been fired immediately. Recall petition has been approved: http://www.stopsnyder.com. And let’s start a Michigan Mom March in Lansing on Mother’s Day!!

  • falseprophet

    I notice Granholm is not saying a word. Because she caused this entire problem. I would love to see her email server.

  • Daniel Kuhn

    Can someone answer this question for me? I’m working on a report on the Flint crisis in grad school. This article rightly argues that they could have saved money by staying with Detroit.

    However, after Detroit terminated its contract with one year’s notice, and Flint was building its pipeline, wasn’t the decision to use the Flint River based on the premise that the 2-year agreement with Detroit to bridge the gap until the new pipeline was completed would have been unreasonably expensive?

  • sanduchi

    Why is Snyder out. Why isn’t he in jail. He is a murderer.

    • FrankieB

      Coleman Young, is that you ?

  • Shirley L Roy-Poche

    Where are those pesky guillotine blade sharpeners when you need them!

  • jimmydominic
  • wildcanary

    Detroits “Chinatown”

  • wildcanary

    Darnell Earley is being made the fall guy for a Republican governor who wants to find someone to dump the blame. Earley was issued a subpeona at 6pm Tuesday in Detroit to show up in DC at 9am Wednesday to testify with all his records. It’s a no brainer that was not possible. But it allows the news to run headlines blaring that Earley didn’t show up making him look like he has something to hide. So who would benefit from having Earley look bad? Oh right. The Governor.

  • Bedroxx

    “Getting away from DWSD and getting towards a quasi-private operation was the idea all along. The KWA is just a front for Veolia North America and Veolia is a big-time Jones Day client.” – Steve Paraski, former DWSD Master Plumber

  • http://SchatziesEarthProject.com/ Schatzie’s Earth Project

    Exactly right, Steve Neavling. This investigation needs to go back to at least 2006 and should include what set the stage for both Flint’s crisis and the ongoing assault on Detroit…the KWA project. http://schatziesearthproject.com/2016/02/01/if-you-dont-believe-that-water-is-the-new-oil-just-ask-flint-michigan/

  • Dan Parks

    Start getting your facts correct. Dayne Walling was the paid mayor over Flint and had his pay restored to him with responsibilities. His administration is the one that treated the water and started all of this mess. He then falsely reported the false water readings to Snyder and the Michigan DEQ. Dayne needs to be criminally prosecuted and put in prison!

    I live in Flint and I have went to meetings and I know people in the water dept that told me what was going on long ago but no one would listen to me. All of you people that do not live in the city and watch the news think that you know what all happened but as Bay City’s water manager said, Flint is the one that treated the water and Flint is the one that falsely reported the test results to Michigan’s DEQ so mayor Dayne Walling is the one that they need to start with. They all had a part in this all the way to the white house as far back as April 2015. This is a total collapse of government of all sides. This should have never happened but start with the ones that committed the crime!

  • barbara g.
  • FreeOregon

    Who got the kickbacks?

  • hermanjamers

    Why doesn’t Detroit end exclusionary zoning in Detroit and let the Flint residents know that they are welcome in Detroit? 240,000 people left Detroit between 2000 and 2010. Most of those houses were torn down. So let people live in any home as long as that home is not a threat to anyone’s health or safety. Think RV, travel trailer, motor home or other manufactured home. Start making a formaldehyde-free singlewide. Building a car is much more complicated than building a home. So Detroit could do it. The key is to end exclusionary zoning in Detroit.

  • Art Z.

    I’m starting to think that the lead in Flint’s water is a republican conspiracy to create future republican voters.

  • Henry Walker

    So why did he only save money for flint and not for the whole state.

  • tom garner

    It’s starting to look as if #GOP #Republican agenda was to help bring about the bankruptcy of #Detroit, in addition to harming it’s own citizens in the process.

    Folks, when #Profit becomes the sole (soul?) reason for doing things, People and Life itself, becomes meaningless. This water thing in Flint, as well as other things that we should know about and i could mention here, are the end result of corporate greed and elitism. This is “Unrestrained Capitalism” at it’s best.

  • tom garner

    It’s starting to look as if #GOP #Republican agenda was to help bring about the bankruptcy of #Detroit, in addition to harming it’s own citizens in the process.

    Folks, when #Profit becomes the sole (soul?) reason for doing things, People and Life itself, becomes meaningless. This water thing in Flint, as well as other things that we should know about and i could mention here, are the end result of corporate greed and elitism. This is “Unrestrained Capitalism” at it’s best.

  • WeRConnected

    Steve

    When did Snyder specifically say cost was the reason for the switch?

    I don’t see anything about cost in the transcript of the state of the state.

  • WeRConnected

    Steve

    When did Snyder specifically say cost was the reason for the switch?

    I don’t see anything about cost in the transcript of the state of the state.

  • TBPhantom

    Interesting email…for what it is not. This is an internal document that runs a proposal by senior DWSG officers. This proves nothing!

    Where is the document that shows a formal proposal to Flint City or the State of Michigan?

  • steve

    This is just another example of the republican party making money and helping there contributors make money off the poor . Flint and Detroit are not republican hotbeds of support so they dont count . The have been trying to publicize all city services and government services. Breaking up the workers unions. In wrecking the infrastructure of predominantly black cities and stripping their public officials of their power. Rick snyder is a egomaniac that the republican party is using Michigan as a test state . To see how far they can go .

  • thomasbone63

    To the Citizens of Michigan, let’s start recall proceedings. Get rid of this murderous son of a btch.

  • FrankieB
  • World Traveler

    Snyder, and his cronies, deserve life in prison, with nothing to drink but Flint river water. We can hold a national lottery and bet on how long they last.

  • Carol Dunlevy

    i want to know WHY the switch since we now know it was NOT to save them money. Disgusting. I will not be happy until this evil man is in prison.

  • Jason P

    Lead is a horrible neuro-toxin. It damages the mind in so many ways and modern knowledge says there is no safe level that does not do harm.

    We are left with a paradox. If anything over a 5 is found in the blood of children, it warrants a visit from the health department, yet Boomer children in 1968 had anywhere from 12- 30 in the blood from leaded gasoline and paint. . And Boomers are now poised to suffer the highest rates of dementia. These people are our leaders, parents and grandparents. An entire generation poisoned. Perhaps its time to remove them before their lack of integrity causes more harm.

  • Jason P

    Lead is a horrible neuro-toxin. It damages the mind in so many ways and modern knowledge says there is no safe level that does not do harm.

    We are left with a paradox. If anything over a 5 is found in the blood of children, it warrants a visit from the health department, yet Boomer children in 1968 had anywhere from 12- 30 in the blood from leaded gasoline and paint. . And Boomers are now poised to suffer the highest rates of dementia. These people are our leaders, parents and grandparents. An entire generation poisoned. Perhaps its time to remove them before their lack of integrity causes more harm.

  • http://www.nautilusediting.com Terri Wonder

    The Governor of Florida, Rick Scott, whose hospital corporation, HCA, committed one of the worst cases of Medicare Fraud in the nation’s history, is operating off the same playbook as the Governor of Michigan. They and their minions are tearing everything up in the name of “public-private” partnerships that, I believe should be better termed “state capture white collar crime.” The corporate graft is the worst it has ever been in my lifetime.

  • Frank Rossman

    In Dante’s “Inferno” Hypocrites are punished by wearing LEAD Robes gilded with Gold. How ironic. Even more ironic, in Rick Snyder’s “Inferno” excess iron from corroded pipes fosters Legionnaires disease. The Roman Empire’s fall was in part due to lead cups and plates, and they’re love of sugar. http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/sugar-of-lead-a-deadly-sweetener-89984487/?no-ist

    https://youtu.be/QHheU8Jo33Y

  • Frank Rossman

    Profits before people is the power play. People joke about affluenza, but it is a very real psychological/spiritual condition that is destroying this world.

    I doesn’t matter how many PR firms you hire, truth will out.

    https://youtu.be/rHIu9fW_NsM

  • Frank Rossman

    I hope you like Classic Vinyl, Rick. Your gonna have plenty of time to listen to your ol’ record collection once you resign, and move down to Tampa. https://youtu.be/jsaTElBljOE

  • Frank Rossman

    All part of Team Snyder’s 5 point plan to dissolve Flint.

    1. Corrode the infrastructure

    2. Contaminate the citiizens

    3. Erode property values

    4. Disperse the populace

    5. Erect New Flint (i.e. Snyderham, Snyderfield Hills, Snyd Arbor, Snyder Pointe, Snyder Corners, Snydchester Hills, Snydington Woods, West Snyderfield, Snydvi, Northsnyderville, Forest Snydhills, Beverly Snydhills.)

    https://youtu.be/qhx2wQ-2Ccs

  • Marge Kobisa

    I’m still waiting to see if tax payer money will be used on the bridge from Canada that the voters in Michigan turned down. Plus you had a private company that was willing to do it.

  • baruchzed

    The privatization of water started in serious under Bill Clinton, with NAFTA. Part of the plan is to make municipal water undrinkable so people have to buy expensive water from private corporations. Snyder is in on this, the whole republican/democrat capitalist cabal is in on this…and it’s happening. The governor of Florida has just agreed to new Michigan-like water regs which will put the whole state of Florida into the same situation Flint is in.

    Water is a human right! Free clean water is a basic human right, but it is being taken away from YOU by politicians. Why are we allowing this?

    I go back to this for Snyder and his crew…three options…public execution, life in prison no parole, or life in servitude to the people they poisoned…cleaning, shopping, teaching, assisting…some of those kids are going to need help for the rest of their lives.

  • Chris Pease

    We are going to have issue in Wisconsin. Because the Republicans scumbags. Are passing a bill allowing corporations to buy and control or municipal water

  • Chris Pease

    We are going to have issue in Wisconsin. Because the Republicans scumbags. Are passing a bill allowing corporations to buy and control or municipal water

  • Mark Stewart

    this email appears to be is between internal DWSD representatives – is there anything that shows this offer was actually presented?

  • Lynn Walker
  • Beryl Striewski

    OMG!!! this is so important!!! thankyou Motor City Muckraker for this excellent reporting!!! Yeah! investigative journalism is alive and well in michigan!!!

  • Deanna Clark

    This rings true…right on, Steve. It isn’t even imaginative, just same old crooked wheeler dealer nastiness…

  • Deasil

    Not only is not a ‘smoking gun’ this not even new information. It was known that Flint and Detroit exchanged proposals. Nowhere does this article tell you that the Flint City Council had already approved the switch to the Karegnondi Water Authority back on March 25, 2013. So this proposal on April 15th was after the fact. It also fails to mention what terms Detroit offered Flint after they terminated their contract.

    If Snyder was doing anything the target would have been all of Genesee County where there is far more money to be made. Flint is broken city that hasn’t been relevant since the eighties. Why would the any governor target a city that has no money, that has no leverage with no political gains to be made there.

  • billylove

    Snyder is still a free man? If he isn’t in prison, please tell me prosecutors are finalizing the indictment against him, PLEASE!

  • Mary Alexanderallen

    People people its done people are dying have died the problem needs correcting it doesn’t matter it done do something other than talk for it was all about money in their pockets. That why most of the people run for office it not about the people it about the money. An I know th
    at someone needs to paid . They don’t CARE.

  • mattiemo

    If it wasn’t about saving money then why the hell didn’t they go with Detroit? Detroit water is great water!

  • VinceFinnegan

    LIFE IN PRISON FOR SNYDER

  • CaptCorona

    The City of Detroit and Flint have already gone into bankruptcy so driving them into bankruptcy could not be a motive. Let’s not forget that it was the, all Democrat City Council of Flint, that voted to switch their water supply over to the new municipally owned and run Karegnondi Water Authority (KWA). The projections were that it would save the City of Flint $2million a year. However, no one ever addressed the real problem in Flint which is the lead pipes that supply water to roughly 1/3 of the homes. Even with all of the current news of the crisis, you still hear very little about the root of the problem. Apparently the City of Flint has decided that slowly poisoning their population w/ chemical additives to the water supply which only slow the lead contamination is a more workable solution.

    • Stephen Beard

      Whoa! I don’t even live in Michigan and I know what happened better than you. Council did NOT vote to switch the water supplier; that was done by the state-appointed emergency manager. Actually, you hear a great deal about what you call “the root of the problem,” which is that the pipes haven’t been changed for about a hundred years, but were safe to use before the Flint River water was pumped. What a dope!

      • CaptCorona

        From the Huffington Post, certainly no friend of Snyders,” the Flint City Council voted to join the KWA, knowing the new system
        wouldn’t be ready until 2016. The Detroit Water & Sewerage
        Department had been raising Flint’s rates every year, resulting in some
        of the state’s highest water bills. City and state officials believed
        Flint could save millions of dollars by joining the new system.

        Then the Detroit system, from which the city had been buying its
        water for nearly 50 years, notified Flint and the surrounding Genesee
        County that it would be cutting off their service in the spring of 2014.

        • Stephen Beard

          Is that the same story in the same Huffington Post that pointed the Detroit people offered significant savings — almost 50 percent — for remaining in the

          Detroit system? That no notification was given either Flint or Genessee County because there was never any intention of cutting people off. That these claims were almost certainly made up by state officials?

          The decision to change suppliers was made by the Emergency Manager appointed by Gov. Rick Snyder, the stupidest nerd I have ever heard of.

          • run75441

            My friend; the Emergency Manager had the City Council approve the move to KWA and then he signed off on the move as he had the “final authority” for the move.

        • Alan Pieniadz

          I am tired of this explanation of Detroit water forcing Flint to be most expensive. Flint went from a 30 year contract that ended in 1994 to a year to year contract for 20 years because they wanted to do this KWA thing for that long. Of course not having a contract opens up to volatility in pricing.

  • Mc Arter

    It Wasn’t A Black Thing;It Was A Green Thing; And they obviously felt that this city was Expendable, because they saw no positive solutions to it’s financial crisis; Maybe it was intentional in order to get the100 Million Federal Disaster Funds; seriously;They were under State Emergency Management, trying to figure out a way to produce Funds to get the city to financial stability, and it was hopeless that an Economic Boom wasn’t gonna come that way by any means other than a planned Disaster!

  • glynnis bugati

    Follow the money. Right into the pockets of Snyder and his cronies..

  • ComradeAnon

    Keep the screws turning. Great work!

  • CitizenX

    A wise man once said: “You lay down with dogs and you will wake up with fleas!!” Flint citizens – you have a Republican hack who has tried to kill you and your family – now what are you going to do about it!?! You never miss a human right (e.g. clean water) until its gone!!

  • Fillet John

    We don’t need EPA or DER. Governor Snyder just proved that. He’s the latest poster boy for the GOP. The GOP is a cult.

  • Marisol

    SATAN’S BABIES!!!!

  • http://greenpeace.com Leslie Parent

    What I don’t understand about all of this is why the Governor has not been arrested?!?! All the facts are in plain sight. To the people of Michigan go get him yourselves with Citizens arrest,and if he doesn’t make it to the jail because he was injured on the ride, pretend your living in Chicago.

  • Druse

    This raises a question I don’t understand. Flint was building a new pipe line from lake Huron. Would the deal for thirty years be exclusive. That is, would Flint be able to use its new pipeline? This seems to simplistic at this point.

  • Andrew Jones

    Vote Republican, this is what you get: poisoned so someone can make a dollar. Put this motherfucker in prison already.

  • battman37148

    Is the mayor or the governor over Flint’s water department?

  • Wickliffe

    “The horror, the horror…”

  • edbotsko

    Long term Republican strategy….Poison the children to save a few cents…Not realizing that there was another offer from Detroit that would actually save MORE than piping in Flint River sewage…. NOW this Republican sociopath will have to spend tens of millions to correct his fatal, flawed decision… Kinda like Bush lying us inot Iraq…

  • edbotsko

    Long term Republican strategy….Poison the children to save a few cents…Not realizing that there was another offer from Detroit that would actually save MORE than piping in Flint River sewage…. NOW this Republican sociopath will have to spend tens of millions to correct his fatal, flawed decision… Kinda like Bush lying us inot Iraq…

  • GreatCatSbee

    Stop electing business people.

    • beanboy

      Just imagine this country with Donald Trump. For a preview come to Maine and see what’s going on with Gov Le Page

  • http://batman-news.com Larry Pfeifer

    Leading up to this disaster are articles written about the pipeline and where the interests really are. Why is Genessee County so desperate for this water. Look no further than Consumers Power + MPSC.

    More than 40 percent of U.S. freshwater withdrawals are
    used for power plant cooling. These plants also lose several billion gallons of freshwater every day through evaporation.

    http://www.thetimesherald.com/article/20121202/OPINION02/312020005/Mike-Connell-Building-monuments-corruption

    http://www.michiganradio.org/post/ground-broken-quarter-billion-dollar-water-pipeline-michigan

    http://www.ucsusa.org/news/press_release/water-smart-power-0394.html

  • popgrand

    It goes much further than just Flint Michigan, all the republican Governors are in the business of cutting/gutting all city services for the most poor parts of their states!

  • Chromex

    Steve- while the motives you identify are credible and this could be the case, you should never take the word of a negotiator for one side when they are trying to save the account. You really have to tear into it to see if the puffery is real. For example, are the savings real? We just have one sides assertion. If savings are over a broad time horizon as these seem to be, when do they kick in? IF savings , for example, all come in the last 5 years, Snyder flacks and trolls ( all over the internet claiming this was the fault of local government, a contemptible position) can attack this by saying the savings were back loaded and saving money over, say a 20 year time horizon was justified. However, this should put to rest the idea that local government made the decision to switch or had any power, Excellent job overall and things certainly need to be looked at more closely

  • Chromex

    Steve- while the motives you identify are credible and this could be the case, you should never take the word of a negotiator for one side when they are trying to save the account. You really have to tear into it to see if the puffery is real. For example, are the savings real? We just have one sides assertion. If savings are over a broad time horizon as these seem to be, when do they kick in? IF savings , for example, all come in the last 5 years, Snyder flacks and trolls ( all over the internet claiming this was the fault of local government, a contemptible position) can attack this by saying the savings were back loaded and saving money over, say a 20 year time horizon was justified. However, this should put to rest the idea that local government made the decision to switch or had any power, Excellent job overall and things certainly need to be looked at more closely

  • hilliard

    Please don’t be deterred people keep the pressure on the sociopath governor Rick Snyder he has hired a public relations team with your tax dollars to cover up for his lies and genocide crimes on humanity.

  • David P. Bresett

    This is how extreme fascist operate. Any militias in the Flint area should be called up and arm yourselves . It is your right when a government is exterminating people for money and to privatize. Snyder will be jailed!!!

  • David P. Bresett

    This is how extreme fascist operate. Any militias in the Flint area should be called up and arm yourselves . It is your right when a government is exterminating people for money and to privatize. Snyder will be jailed!!!

  • David Becker

    So then explain why did the Flint City council approve this? Please explain what Gov. Snyder would have got out of this? Explain why the Flint Legislature did not step in? Please explain why no one in Flint did a further investigation. It is easy to blame one person, but you have failed to explain the entire story. Please explain

    • Bitwarrior

      The simple answer is, the city council had no authority under the emergency manager. Their 7-1 vote was purely symbolic (The city needed EM approval to pass any expenditure bill that exceeded $50k). And the vote was to join the KWA not to switch to use Flint river water as the main source. DWSD gave Flint a one year shut off notice from the time they terminated the contract, but the EM made the decision to switch over immediately to avoid any service/maintenance fees Detroit was surely going to slap them with.

      • David Becker

        Based on your answer then if the council voted down he would have overrode it. Based on your non-answer Gov. Snyder had nothing to gain by it. Based on your answer then KWA is at fault for using the Flint river water. Funny how your ale misses these points. Based on your non answer guess the Flint Legislature does not care. Guess it is not all Gov. Snyders fault. Please state all the facts.

    • run75441

      There is no Flint Legislature.

  • DoorCty

    I’m a Wisconsin neighbor with a fondness for Michigan, and the first thing I wonder if you can do is hold a public referendum to decide to change the open records law. The Governor and Legislature work for YOU. They ought to be compelled to comply with FOIA laws.

    Gov Walker and his stooges tried to repeal our open records law, too. I think they were partially successful. Tried to play it off as “protecting constituents.” Yeah, like the corporations with whom they make back room deals.

  • Daniel A Schaeffer

    Criminy! There isn’t even a place on MCM where I can contribute $ to the support of the site

    • sbean

      Maybe that’s part of being an independent source of journalism.

  • JWS

    A Republican….lying…….SHOCKING!! Actually, a Republican telling the truth about ANYTHING would be truly shocking. If you want to change the world for the better, then vote a straight Democratic ticket, local to national, in November and get rid of these corrupt, arrogant, hateful, bigoted greedy Republicans!

  • Deborah Marshall

    I just also want to add that everyone should read “Time” this week it is about who knew what and when. The EPA notified the state of Michigan on the problems they would have because of the problems with the pipelines but the state did not want to fund the repairs because it would cost to much so they ignored the EPA warnings you see the EPA handed the report over to the State version of the EPA and it was dismissed. So sad and very unnecessary for this to have happened it is tragic and those that are responsible should be prosecuted to the full extent that the law will allow and we the people of this state need to make sure that it happens.

  • URBN Tampa Bay

    Just look at the KWA website. They attack the DWSD on their home page… http://www.karegnondi.com/

  • freakytrish

    I will never forget almost 20 years ago when my “World Ecological Problems” college professor asked us what we thought would be the biggest ecological problem the world would face in the next 50 years. Some people said extinction, some thought overpopulation, and yet others thought it would be global warming. We were all shocked when he said it will be a water shortage. He said eventually countries will go to war over water. Could something like this be the start??

    • sbean

      This issue is very local in scope, so, no, it’s not related to any shortage of water.

    • Clarisse73

      I think you certainly have a point. And while the residents of Flint are dealing with their toxic water, Nestle is going around the world, trying to get a lock on as many water resources as possible, so they can bottle it and sell it for profit.
      Beware! If we have to eventually depend on large corporations for our everyday water, we are going to have a problem.

  • Kommonman

    Follow the money…somebody was greasing his palm somewhere…who stood to gain crapitalistically

  • Ronald Diebel

    Steve, I shared your post on Facebook, and I must say it is the most reshared post I have ever had. You are doing a great job!

  • Kevin O’connor

    Interesting that One of the Flint council men who voted to switch was the first Treasurer of the Krigonda Water Authority…

  • TheAntiGenius

    Rick Snyder passed the budget that put all those towns in receivership! We need to bring back head stocks! HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY IGNORE SOMETHING YOU ARE CULTIVATING!

  • Alan Pieniadz

    I get that Snyder signed off on this, but so did Flint City Council as they voted to move to the KWA, mostly symbolic due to the EFM, but still valid, because it has been talked about for atleast a decade prior. If those savings were there why wouldn’t City Council bring it up?

  • http://seeinfra.wordpress.com K.Chen

    So “An e-mail obtained by Motor City Muckraker” means “an e-mail publicly released or obtained by others in a FOIA request” right?

  • wizard2000

    Excellent reporting.

  • benkozicki

    One idea put forth by Flint attorney Alec Gibbs is that the KWA pipeline was really being built to service two potential fracking sites between Lake Huron and Flint.
    http://markmaynard.com/2016/01/could-the-flint-water-crisis-have-its-origins-in-a-desire-to-increase-fracking-in-michigan/

  • Rowena

    Even more reason for the idiot to be in prison.

  • tenebrisinfinite

    “20% more inexpensive than”? Was “less expensive” or “cheaper” too direct for you?

  • tenebrisinfinite

    “20% more inexpensive than”? Was “less expensive” or “cheaper” too direct for you?

  • maggiemay

    You people are so misinformed. Flint City Council voted to terminate the contract with Detroit. All the emergency manager did was flip the switch. Get your facts straight people.

    • muckraker_steve

      Not true. You are confusing the vote to switch to KWA and the decision to use the Flint River. The EM signed off on the Flint River decision, even after DWSD offered a short-term lease until KWA was done.

    • Trexinmichigan

      Read the Snyder email dump. The documents are right there in black and white. Before you prove to us you’re a fool,again.

    • run75441

      The EM had the final authority as appointed by Gov. Snyder and Michigan Law. You are the one misinformed.

  • StrangerWithCandy

    More proof that Synder is the F’ing DEVIL.

    • sbean

      I understand the anger. Please find a positive way to channel it.

  • PeaceDaisy

    1 percent want world population reduced to 500 million

  • Trexinmichigan
  • Randall Raymond

    I believe everyone responsible for this Flint water environmental disaster should be held accountable to the highest level. The effects of lead poisoning on student achievement in Detroit Public Schools was published in the American Journal of Public Health in March, 2013 and clearly shows the devastating impact that high levels of blood lead cause on children’s learning potential. This landmark research was published a full year before they decided to switch the water! They should have known what might happen!😡
    Early Childhood Lead Exposure and Academic Achievement:
    Evidence From Detroit Public Schools, 2008–2010
    Objectives. We assessed the long-term effect of early childhood lead exposure
    on academic achievement in mathematics, science, and reading among elementary
    and junior high school children.
    Methods. We linked early childhood blood lead testing surveillance data from
    the Detroit Department of Health and Wellness Promotion to educational testing
    data from the Detroit, Michigan, public schools. We used the linked data to
    investigate the effect of early childhood lead exposure on academic achievement
    among school-aged children, both marginally and adjusted for grade level,
    gender, race, language, maternal education, and socioeconomic status.
    Results. High blood lead levels before age 6 years were strongly associated with
    poor academic achievement in grades 3, 5, and 8. The odds of scoring less than
    proficient for those whose blood lead levels were greater than 10 micrograms per
    deciliter were more than twice the odds for those whose blood lead levels were
    less than 1 micrograms per deciliter after adjustment for potential confounders.
    Conclusions. Early childhood lead exposure was negatively associated with
    academic achievement in elementary and junior high school, after adjusting for
    key potential confounders. The control of lead poisoning should focus on primary
    prevention of lead exposure in children and development of special education
    programs for students with lead poisoning. (Am J Public Health. 2013;103:
    e72–e77. doi:10.2105/AJPH.2012.301164)

    Randall E Raymond
    Geographic Information Specialist
    27415 Selkirk St.
    Southfield, MI 48076
    Cell phone: 248-910-7830
    Email: aerraymond@aol.com
    ESRI Authorized K-12 Instructor
    ESRI T3G2013 Graduate (Teachers Teaching Teachers GIS)
    https://GeoNet.esri.com/people/randalleraymond
    NSF-ITEST GRACE Project Advisor/Consultant

  • Lara Z

    Sara Wurfel, who is the wife of former MDEQ spokesman Brad Wurfel, strangely quit the governor’s office smack dab in the middle of the water crisis (November 2015). Where does she go with the governor’s blessing? Truscott Rossman, a PR firm. Who do they represent? Energy clients. Big ones. Here’s a fun article where Brad Wurfel, her husband, is quoted as *agreeing* with Truscott Rossman, saying on behalf of the MDEQ that fracking is super safe and doesn’t pollute groundwater. I have my tinfoil hat on, folks. This is a conspiracy in spades. http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20130415/NEWS/130419889/oil-and-gas-industry-making-case-against-anti-fracking-ballot-proposal

    • Klann Killa

      Funny you mention ‘ole Brad, and Sara, as I knew they’d BOTH land “on their feet.”

    • http://redrundrain.wordpress.com/ WilliH2O

      Nice catch. The puzzle pieces begin to show the larger picture.

      • SeaSix

        Snyder ‘re-assigned’ one from DEQ (which would certainly need to be investigated in the future) TO>>> No better place then FOIA! Nice one Dick! Has had a 24/7 job there with all the laundry to wash.

      • SeaSix

        Snyder ‘re-assigned’ one from DEQ (which would certainly need to be investigated in the future) TO>>> No better place then FOIA! Nice one Dick! Has had a 24/7 job there with all the laundry to wash.

    • themidwestcoast

      Don’t forget that Deb Muchmore is a pro-fracking lobbyist, and heavily involved in the Marketing Resource Group, who coordinated the efforts against the anti-fracking ballot proposal a few years ago.

      OH! And she’s the wife of Snyder’s former chief of staff.

    • guest

      woooow…it DOES get worse! I figured more dirt would come….and here it is..and growing!

  • Jennifer Muller

    I have felt it was ultimately about punishing Detroit –

  • Tom

    Rick Snyder’s wife is a spokesman for Nestle Water in Michigan and Oil and Gas interest’s

    To the Mackinac Center types
    There are functions of government that need to remain in direct government control, Public Health and Safety among them.
    History indicates private business controlling government business leads to corruption and cronyism, one could fill books citing evidence.

    Government bureaucracies have there inherent problems but remain under the control and are directly accountable to citizens in a democracy.
    The citizens have the tools to change when change is needed.

    Privatization of stated functions usurps culpability to work against the interests of citizens and residents needing protection.
    It is Just that Simple!

  • http://redrundrain.wordpress.com/ WilliH2O

    Great article Steve Neavling, thanks.

  • cratewasher

    Noose time.

    • sbean

      Please tone it down.

      • cratewasher

        Does “toning it down” usually bring about accountability in government officials?

        • sbean

          The population of Flint is mostly African American, many of whom have ancestors who had a personal concern about nooses. Toning it down acknowledges that and focuses on realistic options that don’t promote violence. I believe the governor has demonstrated an inability to perform the duties of the office and should resign, and I will support any effort to achieve that result short of violence or threats of violence.

  • Windanhaer

    odds are that when the secreted report came to light the people responsible and anyone even remotely responsible have been diverting assets from their name to another in anticipation of a law suit or federal investigation proving guilt…..

  • glasgal

    murdering SOB time for an arrest

  • glasgal

    murdering SOB time for an arrest

  • Trexinmichigan

    Great work Steve. Please keep on digging. If this isn’t another downfall of a corrupt politician(s),I don’t know what is. Shades of Kilpatrick,just on a Statewide level.

  • billknowsit

    Privatization… duh, more public money in private pockets.

  • Sandra Hawkins-Hudson

    Snyder and his Croonies need to be put in prison next to some hard core criminals and forced to drink the poison water he put upon the people of Flint Michigan… to the people of Flint Michigan we have semi trucks on there way to Flint with loads of water from Cleveland Ohio most should be there by now we will send more as long as you need us God Bless you all..

  • Rooster

    Look folks the cats outta the bag !
    Flint’s Water Treatment Plant never had the capability to produce Safe Drinking Water from Raw untreated Water . Never not Ever.
    650.000.000 million dollars in cost to bring Raw Lake Huron water to this facility.
    The pipeline project is ahead of schedule and around sometime in March this year, will be complete.
    How much will it take in human tragedy before Washington DC brings in the investigation and prosecution of the idiots that thought they could get away with faking their way thru the Regulations breaking every Law written?
    This incapability to meet, process and produce Safe Drinking Water Corrosion practice? The place doesn’t have and never has had the equipment it needs or will need to meet the standards.
    The operators of the water plant were fully aware that the existing equipment was incapable of meeting processes necessary to produce corrosion free water and went ahead anyway.
    No idiot in their right mind does this unless its deliberately intentionally carless reckless negligence and or total dereliction disregard to human rights and the public’s safety.

    • DJBudSonic

      I heard that all the Flint Water staff knew how to do was monitor DWSD supply and flush the system to waste twice a year. Why no one (MDEQ, EM, EPA, etc) monitored their Flint River intake treatment efforts is at the heart of the problem. I believe the decision to switch sources was based on nefarious profit motives, but the decision to not monitor the results of the switch was plain criminal.

  • rnprn

    It is starve the beast, then privitize it. Privitize the profit and socialize the risk. The Koch playbook! Harming innocent kids for life. Poor kids that the cards are stacked against. Koch whores poisoning kids need to go to prision!!!

  • rnprn

    It is starve the beast, then privitize it. Privitize the profit and socialize the risk. The Koch playbook! Harming innocent kids for life. Poor kids that the cards are stacked against. Koch whores poisoning kids need to go to prision!!!

    • disqus654e9725qwe

      Oh please. Detroit Water goons tried to extort Flint into a 30 year contracting extension. Flint said piss off. Flint residents were tired of the obscene prices, tired of Detroit never updating the infrastructure, and tired of constant price increases. Detroit Water has 100s of no talent cronies working there. Democrat machine is it’s purest form.

      • Progressive_Pedro

        Dude, the water wasn’t poisoned until they flipped the switch. They were offered (six times) a better deal than they had and the Emergency Manager refused. That is malfeasance and this is what happens when republicans are in charge.

        • disqus654e9725qwe

          http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2013/04/detroit_gives_notice_its_termi.html
          “Detroit Water and Sewerage Department Director Sue F. McCormick … after April 17, 2014 the current arrangement would end.”

          Detroit EM Kevyn Orr, ergo Snyder, did not terminate the contract, the crony gangsters at Detroit Water did. You know, the same crony gangsters that employ an 80% redundant staff, charged Flint the highest rates in the U.S., and never improved their infrastructure.

          • muckraker_steve

            Not true. DWSD offered a short-term contract in mid-2014, and the EM rejected it. DWSD tried very hard to keep Flint with them.

          • disqus654e9725qwe

            “Flint is a mess made by Democrats (over 30 years in the making), made worse by the Democrats in Detroit (terminated water contract), and ignored by the Democrats in the White House.”

            See: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/430072/flint-lead-water-scandal

          • Trexinmichigan

            I can’t wait until next week when everyone has their hands covering their asses running around. You’ll be the first fool in line. Congratulations, you removed all doubt.

          • dantes342

            I hope you’re a paid operative, otherwise this is just pathetic.

          • hilliard

            Yes he is notice the words chosen.gangsters, cronies,goons.these words are usually used to try and silience people but we won’t be silenced.

          • Traxley Launderette

            Agreed.

          • run75441

            Paid troll

          • run75441

            Paid troll

          • ThoughtWillFreeYou

            this is a serious stretch. somehow we ignore everyone in charge of the problem and refuse to blame them for anything. Yeah. sounds smart buddy.

          • george1776

            National Review? Why don’t you just wipe your hind quarters with it. You’re a joke and idiot.

          • emac2

            So that means the GOP can come in and wipe out the population?

            You can’t excuse criminal activity by pointing out other criminals.

          • Floridatexan

            Great source…if you’re supporting lying R’s.

          • Peter Halabu

            I find it hard to reconcile DWSD’s cancellation notice with their trying to keep Flint on their system. Why the cancellation and then the attempts at a short-term contract? Why not just keep them on their current contract? Was this poor gamesmanship on DWSD’s part?

          • disqus654e9725qwe

            They terminated the contract to screw over Flint [as Flint would be left w/o water for 18-24 months] and try to extort Flint off the new water deal and into a 30 year extension with Detroit. Flint only went to river water because Detroit terminated the deal. Had Detroit not terminated the deal Flint would have served Detroit water until the completion of the new pipeline.

          • Carol Dunlevy

            dream on. Why do you want to defend the people who poisoned a whole city?
            What the hell is wrong with YOU?

          • run75441

            Steve:
            Good investigative work. The trolls are out attempting to sway the discussion away from who owned the City of Flint at the time. It certainly was not the city elected officials or the water workers who made the ultimate decision. This decision was made by the state legislature and Snyder. Once approved, the Emergency Manager went forward.

            What is insidious about all of this, is they could have switched back and reused the pipe line (which they sold) again to hook back up temporarily. What manner of people are these who would risk the lives of others?

          • Grumpy

            Ask the Obama-appointed EPA Regional Admin who sat on the lead report for months

          • run75441

            Grumpy:
            Lets be very clear about this since I live in Michigan not far from Flint.

            The State of Michigan had complete control of Flint with their Emergency Manager. This decision was approved by the State Legislature for funding before anything took place. The final decision to switch was made by Early and approved again by Ambrose. Both at different points in time as Governor appointed managers had control over Flint.This originated back in 2013. Snyder has yet to turn over his emails from 2013.

          • Grumpy

            Yes, run: I know that.

            If you want to blame Snyder for this then what we need to be very clear about is when did Snyder find out about the lead? We know the State agency DEQ was covering up and sending him false reports, we know the EPA was sitting on its ass and saying nothing.

            The question is: how long did it take him to act once he knew? Did he act promptly or did he also cover up?

          • run75441

            Grumpy:

            It does not matter whether the MDEQ lied or not. This still falls under the Emergency Manager, Snyder assigned to Flint. There was plenty of arm waving going on during that time period by constituents. Jerry Ambrose upon seeing a sample of the Flint water claimed “that water did not come from Flint” when shown the sample at a meeting. They could have reacted and they did not.

            GM had warned the state the treated water would corrode the pipes and the solder joints. GM went to shipped-in water. Flint received 1500 filters in Summer. “Snyder spokesman Dave Murray confirmed on Sept. 29 that about two months earlier, Snyder and his office worked with a corporate donor who wanted to remain anonymous to provide 1,500 faucet filters to a Flint-area group of pastors, who helped distribute them.”

            October 2, more filters were being delivered, Earlier this year the water distribution began. “Today, more than three months later, the Michigan State Police and other state officials have just begun delivering bottled water and water filters door to door in Flint. Snyder declared a state of emergency in Flint and Genesee County over the water issue on Jan. 5.” A massive effort by the state started this year 2016.
            You do not get a free pass when you do “nothing” after almost 2 years of issues with the water. Furthermore, they could have stayed with the Detroit Water and his administration chose not to do so.

          • Grumpy

            It matters in terms of criminal charges against Snyder, which several million twitterers are screaming for.

            I’d be delighted to vote prison time for anyone covering up toxic levels of lead in drinking water, but so far the only ones provably guilty of that are DEQ and EPA.

            Heard anything about criminal charges in those cases? So far as I know they just resigned and walked away.

          • run75441

            Grumpy:
            The EPA notified the MDEQ several times. The MDEQ reports to Snyder. The state Gov was sending bottle water to Glint early 2015. They know.

          • Grumpy

            To repeat what I said earlier, since you seem to have missed it:

            Yes, run: I know that.

            If you want to blame Snyder for this then what we need to be very clear about is when did Snyder find out about the lead?
            We know the State agency DEQ was covering up and sending him false reports, we know the EPA was sitting on its ass and saying nothing.

            The question is: how long did it take him to act once he knew? Did he act promptly or did he also cover up?

            “They know” (I assume you meant “knew”?) is not going to cut it in a court of law. What is the earliest official report of dangerous lead that Snyder received? As you might imagine, I’ve been looking and the earliest I’ve found is only one week before they switched back to Detroit water.

          • Grumpy

            To repeat what I said earlier, since you seem to have missed it:

            Yes, run: I know that.

            If you want to blame Snyder for this then what we need to be very clear about is when did Snyder find out about the lead?
            We know the State agency DEQ was covering up and sending him false reports, we know the EPA was sitting on its ass and saying nothing.

            The question is: how long did it take him to act once he knew? Did he act promptly or did he also cover up?

            “They know” (I assume you meant “knew”?) is not going to cut it in a court of law. What is the earliest official report of dangerous lead that Snyder received? As you might imagine, I’ve been looking and the earliest I’ve found is only one week before they switched back to Detroit water.

          • blisschick

            It’s now clear that Snyder knew for MONTHS that the water was unfit to drink, even as his officials told residents that they were whining.

            http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/flint-water-crisis/2016/01/28/amid-denials-state-workers-flint-got-clean-water/79470650/

          • Grumpy

            Why is this point so hard to understand?

            We know that at first the reports Snyder got from DEQ falsely reported the water was fine.
            At some point they admitted there were dangerously levels of lead.
            Snyder ordered the switch back to Detroit water on Oct. 1 or 2
            When was he given the correct information?

            “It’s clear” won’t cut it in court: if you want criminal charges you have to show he knew and didn’t act, so when did he know?

          • blisschick

            Did you read the link? If Snyder knew enough info to provide state workers working in Flint with bottled water for months before he admitted to residents that the water was bed, then that’s your proof.

          • Grumpy

            You can try to take that to court if you like.

            Any thoughts about the DEQ official who knowingly issued false reports?
            Any thoughts about the EPA official who did nothing for months while waiting for “legal opinion” ?

            I hear lots of people screaming for Snyder to be arrested, but these two just resigned and walked away, it seems.

          • blisschick

            I’m not going to pretend to be a legal expert, nor am I convinced that Snyder’s conviction would bring any sort of justice to the people of Flint. It does seem like the villains walk away too often, however.

          • Floridatexan

            Stop lying.

          • Grumpy

            Stop displaying your stupidity to the entire Internet

            http://www.newsweek.com/epa-silent-guilty-role-flint-water-crisis-418957

          • blisschick

            And then even if they did stay with the new pipeline, it’s clear that they didn’t take basic precautions based on test results to protect Flint residents and pipes from corrosive water. There is too much of a paper trail to try to pin this on anyone but the Snyder administration.

          • LostInUnderland

            The land is more valuable to them than the people. Get rid of the people, and you can build a profitable, gentrified city.

          • run75441

            Steve:
            Good investigative work. The trolls are out attempting to sway the discussion away from who owned the City of Flint at the time. It certainly was not the city elected officials or the water workers who made the ultimate decision. This decision was made by the state legislature and Snyder. Once approved, the Emergency Manager went forward.

            What is insidious about all of this, is they could have switched back and reused the pipe line (which they sold) again to hook back up temporarily. What manner of people are these who would risk the lives of others?

          • hilliard

            This person is definitely working for the PR team Rick Snyder just bought with tax payers money.

          • Trexinmichigan

            I can’t argue with that. Based on how Snyder’s handled the whole water thing, hiring incompetent PR guys isn’t a stretch.

          • hilliard

            This person is definitely working for the PR team Rick Snyder just bought with tax payers money.

          • SeaSix

            Infrastructure may have been old, just as many cities BUT at that time it was well protected by the decades old coating on our lines- from the Huron water (Much diff chemistry & ph). It could be improved in future but totally functional – UNTIL the acidic Flint River stripped the coating away. You cannot spin this one around. ANYWHO… no one should debate w/u as you’re attitude is-besides bias- NOT gonna win over a single soul.

          • disqus654e9725qwe

            Please. Detroit in general, ditto Flint, is falling apart. Pipes, lights, roads, schools…the water mains have huge leaks which raised Flint’s prices even more.

          • run75441

            Leaks would increase cost not prices.

          • run75441

            Leaks would increase cost not prices.

          • disqus654e9725qwe

            Please. Detroit in general, ditto Flint, is falling apart. Pipes, lights, roads, schools…the water mains have huge leaks which raised Flint’s prices even more.

        • http://adamgradzki.com Adam Gradzki

          Corruption is not a partisan issue

      • OICD

        and yet, detroit water hasn’t poisoned thousands of people with a dangerous sometimes deadly neurotoxin…

        • DoorCty

          Yet. :-/

      • JonathanNathan

        Flint residents? You think Flint residents were the driving force behind this? Are you really supposed to be posting internet comments from your Michigan government computer?

      • freakytrish

        Aha! The ugly truth reveals itself……..a fellow Neo-con trying to protect his evil overlords. Why doesn’t this surprise me.

        • disqus654e9725qwe

          Yeah, Snyder is a “neo-con.” Watch some more conspiracy videos on YouTube, bud.

          • Sean Maddox

            Starve the beast and privatization models have long been the go to standard for the Neocons because they know Americans don’t support a single one of their policies when explained. So, what does a poor, unpopular neocon do then? They bankrupt whatever institution it is by cutting the funding and throwing every roadblock up to slow down the function of the institution; they then can point to that institution and claim it is ineffective and remove it; just ignore the gas and matches behind them. They have done it with every social safety net program; they’ve been doing it to the EPA, USPS, DOJ, FCC, and so on for decades. Why do you think we have a 14 trillion dollar deficit that is largely tied to three decades of neocon, including Clinton and his congress, policies? You’re just a sad paid troll though, but I need to insure no one falls for your tripe.

          • disqus654e9725qwe

            Starve what “beast”? The Detroit Water & Sewage dept. was a democrat machine utopia, 81% overstaffed, average employee making $87,000. They screwed the burbs and Flint every month so all the talentless crooks could get paid. Flint wanted out from under the gangsters.

            source: http://archive.freep.com/article/20120808/NEWS01/120808054/Detroit-water-department-rate

          • disqus654e9725qwe

            Starve what “beast”? The Detroit Water & Sewage dept. was a democrat machine utopia, 81% overstaffed, average employee making $87,000. They screwed the burbs and Flint every month so all the talentless crooks could get paid. Flint wanted out from under the gangsters.

            source: http://archive.freep.com/article/20120808/NEWS01/120808054/Detroit-water-department-rate

          • SeaSix

            ok Correction then: Republic-CON. Much more accurate for U?

            @freakytrish

      • rnprn

        Snyder is just a Koch whore.

      • Nahzuul

        LOL, a Republican governor was in control. Even he acknowledged responsibility. Denial is a powerful thing — sometimes it is even more powerful than facts.

      • ThoughtWillFreeYou

        yeah, so by your own admission: democratic control = clean water and no poisoned children. Republican water= thousands poisoned. Great job!

        • emac2

          I think what he’s actually saying is that the GOP is full of incompetent hateful people.

          No group is without bad apples but the GOP advertises that every bad apple can have their dreams come true so they get most of them.

      • emac2

        Flint said piss off I’m going to pay someone else more than you charge because you tried to increase my rates when you should have been cutting them? I’m so insulted that I had to bargain with you and find other options before you agreed to give me a good deal that I’m going to overpay, using tax dollars, just to spite you?

        Liar or an idiot. Illegal and incompetent for sure.

        An emotional idiot that let flint pay millions and ended up poisoning the city because they felt insulted?

        Jail or mental hospital is really the only conversation to be had.

        • disqus654e9725qwe

          Snyder didn’t treat the river water—Snyder doesn’t work in Flint, at the Water Treat Facility, or for the Dept. of Works. Flint, like Detroit, has 1000s of talentless crony morons making big money doing jack sh-t. A freshman at MSU would know to put anti-corrosives in that river water…yet not one moron in Flint knew to? Liberal utopia. Dumb-ss workers making $60k-150K a year to do NOTHING.

          • emac2

            I see. Snyder gets to lead and then claim it isn’t his fault when he hires people that make fatal mistakes?

            Why did Snyder hire such stupid people? Because he wanted stupid people in place that would lick up his piss and let him do whatever he wanted.

            Snyder made decisions and put people in charge to carry them out with no regard to ability. Classic GOP code since the party put itself up for sale. Jobs go to the highest bidder(donor) or to whoever is willing to break the law to allow privatization of community assets using the KGB business plan the Koch brothers learned from their benefactor Mr Putin.

            BTW – You forgot to blame food stamp recipients for drinking too much water.

            That’s today’s GOP. Incompetent leadership that somehow shouldn’t be held accountable for their decisions because the country is full of slackers.

          • emac2

            I see. Snyder gets to lead and then claim it isn’t his fault when he hires people that make fatal mistakes?

            Why did Snyder hire such stupid people? Because he wanted stupid people in place that would lick up his piss and let him do whatever he wanted.

            Snyder made decisions and put people in charge to carry them out with no regard to ability. Classic GOP code since the party put itself up for sale. Jobs go to the highest bidder(donor) or to whoever is willing to break the law to allow privatization of community assets using the KGB business plan the Koch brothers learned from their benefactor Mr Putin.

            BTW – You forgot to blame food stamp recipients for drinking too much water.

            That’s today’s GOP. Incompetent leadership that somehow shouldn’t be held accountable for their decisions because the country is full of slackers.

          • run75441

            Snyder had control of the city infrastructure, labor, and administrators. Flint did nothing without his approval through the Emergency Manager who needed Snyder’s approval and legislature funding (Repub controlled). This was by Michigan law.

            As a business man Snyder knows this and he holds the bag on this one.

          • Bill Cooper

            Bitter, jealous, hateful, AND defending the horrible? Sorry about your childhood, and quit taking it out on defenseless children you pitiless animal…here’s the url of a good therapist.. http://webtherapyshow.com/

        • disqus654e9725qwe

          Snyder didn’t treat the river water—Snyder doesn’t work in Flint, at the Water Treat Facility, or for the Dept. of Works. Flint, like Detroit, has 1000s of talentless crony morons making big money doing jack sh-t. A freshman at MSU would know to put anti-corrosives in that river water…yet not one moron in Flint knew to? Liberal utopia. Dumb-ss workers making $60k-150K a year to do NOTHING.

      • Floridatexan

        You are lying through your teeth.

      • Floridatexan

        You are lying through your teeth.

  • LAHeat

    Come on, folks, it’s about the money…follow it right to Snyder’s door, and his cronies. It’s always about the money. Someone got paid off, and if a politician is involved, well you do the math! They all line their pockets at the public’s expense, even if it endangers the public’s health. And why? Because they never think they are going to get caught! It’s called public corruption, and maybe the Feds should conduct a RICO investigation and let the indictments flow….

    • julimac

      A DOJ investigation was opened a couple months ago.

  • Tom

    And how much was saved with Aramark?
    It’s not going to get any better when Line 5 in the Straits has problems.
    Enbridge OWNS Michigan
    My fellow Michiganians of all political stripe, please remove the faux conservative fascist.

  • Deirdra Svel

    Oh,,,, it was about money all right. Him making money for himself and his croonies. This reeks of sweetheart deal. Keep digging, I’m sure there’s a whole lot of motivation behind the switch. And the main objective is lining his pockets.

  • bebow

    If a political objective stands at the center of the decision to switch water sources, then the decision to withhold corrosion control takes on a different hue.

  • Ann Farnell

    Here’s my hunch. Flint’s water bills had to be raised 11% in 2009 I think it was. Flint started to look for a cheaper source of water than DWSD. They found it with KWA. KWA insisted the City Council and the EFM and Dillon all sign off or on to the agreement with KWA. It would take three years for the switch to KWA from DWSD. DWSD then offered ways to lower the cost of the water as indicated in the E posted here, but Flint was committed to KWA. A year goes by and Det goes into bankruptcy. Now Kevyn Orr wants to sell DWSD and Flint is a drag on the sale. For one thing, the water has to be delivered via 75 miles of pipeline flowing uphill which requires pumping stations along the route. DWSD has to maintain the pipes and pumping stations and Orr probably had records of when or if or how costly it is to do the maintenance. So he jacked the price up two years early to continue delivering the water that Flint simply could not afford and was still two years away from getting via KWA. So Flint then switched to the Flint River which had been a back up anyway, assuming that the water would be properly treated…which it wasn’t. I think it was a cold hearted financial decision by Orr and the Gov. and once it was done, that was that. I find it astonishing that the gov. says his bureaucrats, (loaded word) didn’t use common sense because neither did he. Common sense would have told him that the people’s complaints, for God’s sake, just looking at the jugs of water….well…either way…he’s in big trouble and should be.

    • Rick Snyder PR

      its like you didn’t even read the article..

  • Ann Farnell

    Here’s my hunch. Flint’s water bills had to be raised 11% in 2009 I think it was. Flint started to look for a cheaper source of water than DWSD. They found it with KWA. KWA insisted the City Council and the EFM and Dillon all sign off or on to the agreement with KWA. It would take three years for the switch to KWA from DWSD. DWSD then offered ways to lower the cost of the water as indicated in the E posted here, but Flint was committed to KWA. A year goes by and Det goes into bankruptcy. Now Kevyn Orr wants to sell DWSD and Flint is a drag on the sale. For one thing, the water has to be delivered via 75 miles of pipeline flowing uphill which requires pumping stations along the route. DWSD has to maintain the pipes and pumping stations and Orr probably had records of when or if or how costly it is to do the maintenance. So he jacked the price up two years early to continue delivering the water that Flint simply could not afford and was still two years away from getting via KWA. So Flint then switched to the Flint River which had been a back up anyway, assuming that the water would be properly treated…which it wasn’t. I think it was a cold hearted financial decision by Orr and the Gov. and once it was done, that was that. I find it astonishing that the gov. says his bureaucrats, (loaded word) didn’t use common sense because neither did he. Common sense would have told him that the people’s complaints, for God’s sake, just looking at the jugs of water….well…either way…he’s in big trouble and should be.

  • Stephen Paul Goodfellow

    “…An e-mail obtained by Motor City Muckraker shows the deal (With Detroit water) would have saved the city $800 million over 30 years, which was 20% more inexpensive than switching to the Karegnondi Water Authority…”

    Which begs the question, were the contractors that did the transfers one of Snyder’s favorites, or one of his sleazy associates’, pals? Was it a sweetheart deal? Would there be records?

  • Stephen Paul Goodfellow

    “…An e-mail obtained by Motor City Muckraker shows the deal (With Detroit water) would have saved the city $800 million over 30 years, which was 20% more inexpensive than switching to the Karegnondi Water Authority…”

    Which begs the question, were the contractors that did the transfers one of Snyder’s favorites, or one of his sleazy associates’, pals? Was it a sweetheart deal? Would there be records?

    • disqus654e9725qwe

      Why would you trust anything from the Detroit Water Dept.? It’s a top to bottom cesspool of fraud and union cronyism. 80% overstaffed. That’s why Flint wanted out; because Flint was being shaken down each and every month.

      • catasetumkid

        Why would I trust the water department? Because they publish actual content of their water testing. Bacause I’ve tested their water. Because their water is great quality. That’s why.

      • MK

        is union cronyism worse than nepotism or trust fund entitlements or insider deals? Upon which “facts” do you base your “80% overstaffed” claim?

      • Tmaximus

        why should you be trusted by anyone since it is no secret you are posting from a state gov. computer.

  • kansas

    It was always about driving Detroit into bankruptcy. When are Michigan voters going to wake up and realize Snyder works for the secret NERD fund donors, and his corporate bankrollers. He does not work for the people of Michigan.

  • kansas

    It was always about driving Detroit into bankruptcy. When are Michigan voters going to wake up and realize Snyder works for the secret NERD fund donors, and his corporate bankrollers. He does not work for the people of Michigan.

    • 1DetroitRedhead

      You’re absolutely correct – it was about driving Detroit into bankruptcy and the dismantling of DWSD. Oakland County was privy to those discussions – remember all the gag orders from the judge and the exclusion of the Macomb Cty Exec from those mtgs. It’s all BS.

      • FrankieB

        Yeah, right…the GOP is to blame for Detroit, not Conyers and his wife and Coleman Young.

        Dastardly Republicans !!

        • Floridatexan

          Don’t waste your time here, TROLL.

        • marid

          Always interesting when these comebacks arise. Conyers and Young may have had issues. But that in no way absolves the present power structure from being held accountable for their own crimes. That is sand box logic.

          • FrankieB

            The Mayor and City Councils run the local governments.

            Government 101. Guess they don’t teach that in the Detroit Public Schools.

          • marid

            But it seems in Flint that was not true, the EM could over rule them.

          • FrankieB

            Because of the financial bankruptcy.

          • Dan LaLande

            Except the “Emergency Manager” was the one who needlessly declared bankruptcy, so that excuse doesn’t work.

            The entire “Emergency Manager” system is an undemocratic power grab used to upsurp the voters.

          • FrankieB

            If the voters elect morons and thieves (i.e., Detroit elected officials since 1974), the state has no other choice.

            Liberals didn’t object to undemocratic power grabs against white elected officials who didn’t desegregate in the South in the 1960’s and 1970’s.

          • Dan LaLande

            Nothing to do with morons and thieves, free trade deals let giant corporations ship all the jobs in Detroit overseas.

            Enforcing federal law, even if a bunch of racists scream state’s rights, is not the same as a fascist stripping a town of it’s democracy just because they elected someone from the other party to run it.

          • FrankieB

            Stop electing incompetents and thieves and maybe you can run your governments.

          • Dan LaLande

            Who needs democracy? The fascists tyrants know what’s best for us, let’s stop all this silly voting and let them take control.

          • Dan LaLande

            Who needs democracy? The fascists tyrants know what’s best for us, let’s stop all this silly voting and let them take control.

          • FrankieB

            It wasn’t free trade, it was the non-competitive nature of the auto industry. Instead of the UAW working with Ford and GM and Chrysler, they bled them dry and sucked all the money out of them. The companies went bankrupt or nearly bankrupt and they were forced to seek low-wage labor to compete.

            If they didn’t build plants overseas, they would have gone bankrupt a decade earlier.

            That’s why GM’s stock did nothing from 1966-2006. You think if they were making tons of money their stock would be flat for 50 years ?

          • Dan LaLande

            So you say it has nothing to do with free trade, but then you admit that the companies shut down plants in Flint to hire cheap labor oversees, which only was possible thanks to free trade deals.

            Considering the auto companies went bankrupt even with the cheap overseas non-union labor, I’m pretty sure there were other flaws.

          • Dan LaLande

            So you say it has nothing to do with free trade, but then you admit that the companies shut down plants in Flint to hire cheap labor oversees, which only was possible thanks to free trade deals.

            Considering the auto companies went bankrupt even with the cheap overseas non-union labor, I’m pretty sure there were other flaws.

          • FrankieB

            Because of the financial bankruptcy.

          • weslen1

            Snyder has used his emergency manager to take over every MI city that has a black majority population. Includes Detroit, Benton Harbor, Flint, and a couple others.

          • weslen1

            Snyder has used his emergency manager to take over every MI city that has a black majority population. Includes Detroit, Benton Harbor, Flint, and a couple others.

          • weslen1

            You, obviously, don’t have the slightest idea of what you are talking about. The Republicans who run MI, passed the emergency manager law that allows the governor to FIRE all elected officials in any city in the state, including the mayor and city council, and appoint an “emergency manager” to take over the city. Shortly after that, that proposal went on the ballot and we voters eliminated that “law”. Just DAYS later, the republicans in Lansing, without informing the democrats in MI government, of the date and time, so reinstated it on their own, but after changing it so that we voters could not vote it out again. For YOU, to try and degrade all in Detroit as being some kind of MORONs for your purpose, shows you, yourself, are the uninformed, and need to apologize to all of Detroit residents. THEY had nothing to do with it, other than they, too, have been victimized by Snyder and his fellow Koch puppets, just not to the extent that Flint has been.

          • FrankieB

            Who elected the Democrats running Flint the last 20 years ?

          • weslen1

            You, obviously, don’t have the slightest idea of what you are talking about. The Republicans who run MI, passed the emergency manager law that allows the governor to FIRE all elected officials in any city in the state, including the mayor and city council, and appoint an “emergency manager” to take over the city. Shortly after that, that proposal went on the ballot and we voters eliminated that “law”. Just DAYS later, the republicans in Lansing, without informing the democrats in MI government, of the date and time, so reinstated it on their own, but after changing it so that we voters could not vote it out again. For YOU, to try and degrade all in Detroit as being some kind of MORONs for your purpose, shows you, yourself, are the uninformed, and need to apologize to all of Detroit residents. THEY had nothing to do with it, other than they, too, have been victimized by Snyder and his fellow Koch puppets, just not to the extent that Flint has been.

        • leftylew

          And Conyers had WHAT to do with this??? Like Snyder wouldn’t blame Conyers if he could…

      • dirtydog1776

        Detroit was in bankruptcy and still is in many respects. Nothing left of value in Detroit. Everything has been stripped, burned or smoked.

    • disqus654e9725qwe

      Orr never controlled Detroit Water. What are you talk about? Detroit Water terminated Flint’s contract to try and extort a 30 year extension and out of spite.

      • muckraker_steve

        Not true. DWSD tried to get Flint to sign a short-term lease until KWA was done.

        • disqus654e9725qwe

          AFTER** their extortion attempt failed (i.e. Flint refused to re-up for 30 years with those gangsters) and Flint spent hundreds of thousands preparing the river water plan.
          What were the exact terms of that supposed short-term lease?

          • Trexinmichigan

            You are a fool. I believe you ,like I believe the water is potable in Flint.

          • hilliard

            IKR this disqus654 obviously works for the new lying PR team that Rick Snyder just hired with tax payers dollars.

          • Dave J.

            Yep. The profile is set to private; you cannot see anything else they’ve commented on.

            They even named their account “donor_puppet”.

            -_-

          • kingdiamond

            Likely a Republican think tank employee out to spread misinformation to keep people from believing the truth.

          • bryan
          • emac2

            So what? They tried to increase rates. the customer made other plans and they agreed to a reduction instead. Haven’t you every purchased anything without a price tag?

            Who in Flint decided not to take the new low offer from Detroit? Why was the decision made if not out of spite, stupidity or special interest?

          • disqus654e9725qwe

            Why would you believe any offer from Detroit? Who’s to say Detroit didn’t just want Flint out of that new pipeline, then would screw Flint over again AS USUAL.

          • emac2

            The same reason I didn’t make arguments about flying pigs.

            I’m not a morally bankrupt POS like you are,

          • disqus654e9725qwe

            Why would you believe any offer from Detroit? Who’s to say Detroit didn’t just want Flint out of that new pipeline, then would screw Flint over again AS USUAL.

          • anonymouslyunknown

            Did you read the article? The email is included. The email says $10.46 as opposed to the current $20.00. Appears to be a reduction in the cost.

        • David Becker

          So then explain why did the Flint City council approve this? Please explain what Gov. Snyder would have got out of this? Explain why the Flint Legislature did not step in? Please explain why no one in Flint did a further investigation. It is easy to blame one person, but you have failed to explain the entire story. Please explain.

          • Trexinmichigan

            They approved a switch to the KWA that is going to get water from Huron. NOT the Flint river,dim bulb, Read the email drop Snyder did last week and quit making yourself look so stupid.

          • David Becker

            Since again you can not answer the questions. I will not stoop to your level of name calling. Just shows ho much of the real facts you have researched.

          • Jeff

            “So then explain why did the Flint City council approve this?”

            The Flint city council had no authority to approve anything because it is under the control of a state-appointed emergency manager.

          • kingdiamond

            People need to do research before opening their mouths about this situation once an emergency manager is put in place they are the ones who make the final call on anything that specific area needs and he only answers to the governor .

          • SeaSix

            THE DID NOT APPROVE! The counsel declined- ‘remained silent’. As residents we know what happened during those counsel mtgs & the long debacles. DWSD did keep making new proposals to prevent losing Flint. You could probable learn more by investigating emails & leaked info INSTEAD of posturing this onto the ‘Democratic Victims’. It wont fly

          • Chris Waechter

            They did vote against it. But they had no say because the emergency manager was given full authority to act with impunity. Read the MichiganRadio.org piece on this.

          • Bob Hoffman

            I heard that the city council approved it. They did it before the EM came in, from what I recall…

          • steve

            Wow no the emergency manager and rick snyder did this the paper trail is there . 2013 the emergency manager already in place

          • steve

            Wow no the emergency manager and rick snyder did this the paper trail is there . 2013 the emergency manager already in place

          • Bob Hoffman

            Your “facts” are not QUITE “accurate”–the mayor AND city council DID approve of the SWITCH–since POSTING this, I learned that the former mayor WAS going to WAIT UNTIL ALL of the infrastructure was IN PLACE–a sound policy–something that the EM DID NOT DO–plenty of BLAME to GO AROUND–WHY DID the EPA drag its FEET after finding OUT about the problem, back in February? So that they could hang it TOTALLY ON Snyder–factthat

          • Lainy

            Oh poor sneaky, lying, arrogant snyder. I am sure the members of the EPA feared for their jobs. When you have someone like snyder in charge people know not to cross him or heads will roll. To many people are forced to fear those in charge over what is right and their jobs! It’s called Business! This is why a business man should never be in the government!

          • marid

            Not sure Bob but to my recollection the EPA creates the regulations but the States and municipalities are responsible for enforcing them in many cases. Went to EPA site and that seems to be the case in many, not all, cases. The failure of our Governments is related to the people we elect. In the past many pols, on both sides, cared about all of us. Not so much now, sad to say. We can do better to be nice.

          • anonymouslyunknown

            The City Council had looked at it, but did not approve it. It was a long term plan because of concerns about the water’s safety. I will have to find the article. The ultimate decision to change to Flint water from Detroit Water was made by the Emergency Manager during the Emergency Manager’s term.

          • moecat

            They only approved to build a new pipeline and get huron water. It was the emergency manager who decided to pull water from the toxic river water until the new pipe was built.

          • steve

            This is what ever body seems to forget is once governor snyder appoints a emergency manager to your city then your elected officials have no power . They just take the blame for whatever rick snyder wants to happen to your city. Its not for the betterment of your city its for how much money republican supporters can make cashing off the blood of your city . But hes not going to end up in jail because the republican party is going to back him

          • steve

            This is what ever body seems to forget is once governor snyder appoints a emergency manager to your city then your elected officials have no power . They just take the blame for whatever rick snyder wants to happen to your city. Its not for the betterment of your city its for how much money republican supporters can make cashing off the blood of your city . But hes not going to end up in jail because the republican party is going to back him

          • steve

            Because flint is under emergency management . Appointed by the governor. Flint elected officials have no control over the emergency manager.
            We had the same problem in Detroit your elected officials have no say in your city’s choices went emergency management takes over your city . Governor snyder runs your city thru emergency manager . Governor snyder and duggan are in league together. All of there corporational friends are getting all the benefit of there offices. No bid contracts with State and city contracts .the same thing Kwame Kilpatrick went to jail for there getting away with it

          • steve

            Because flint is under emergency management . Appointed by the governor. Flint elected officials have no control over the emergency manager.
            We had the same problem in Detroit your elected officials have no say in your city’s choices went emergency management takes over your city . Governor snyder runs your city thru emergency manager . Governor snyder and duggan are in league together. All of there corporational friends are getting all the benefit of there offices. No bid contracts with State and city contracts .the same thing Kwame Kilpatrick went to jail for there getting away with it

          • Lainy

            David there was only snyder and his emergency manager!Everyone else had no vote or power!

          • Lainy

            David there was only snyder and his emergency manager!Everyone else had no vote or power!

          • anonymouslyunknown

            Do you live in Michigan? You may want to read up on Michigan’s Emergency Managers. I can share some links, if you would like. The short version is that the governor can declare a state of emergency for any locally governed entity (school district, city, village, township, county) and appoint an Emergency Manager who reports to the governor. The elected officials have NO authority or power. The Detroit bankruptcy was filed by an Emergency Manager. Flint’s decision to move from Detroit water to Flint water was made by an Emergency Manager. The Flint City Council could not step in. The Emergency Manager reported directly to the State, to Governor Snyder. More importantly, did you read THIS article? Did you read the article about which you are commenting? At the very end of the article there is the email from the Detroit Water Sewerage Dept. offering the lower rate. The article states: “But it turns out, DWSD offered the state-controlled city a deal that would have saved Flint more money by staying with Detroit.

            An e-mail obtained by Motor City Muckraker shows the deal would have saved the city $800 million over 30 years, which was 20% more inexpensive than switching to the Karegnondi Water Authority.

            A high-ranking DWSD official told us today that Detroit offered a 50% reduction over what Flint had been paying Detroit. In fact, documents show that DWSD made at least six proposals to Flint, saying “the KWA pipeline can only be attributed to a ‘political’ objective that has nothing to do with the delivery – or the price – of water.””

            The article ends with:
            “Now it seems clear why Snyder wouldn’t release the e-mails: They would have revealed that the switch was not about saving money.

            So what was it about? Some have suggested that Snyder was motivated by a desire to break up DWSD and ultimately privatize it. In the summer of 2015, DWSD was split into two entities: the DWSD and the Great Lakes Water Authority.

            Others have suggested that Snyder wanted to start fracking operations along a new pipeline.” http://motorcitymuckraker.com/2016/01/23/gov-snyder-lied-flint-water-switch-was-not-about-money-records-show/

          • Ed Bryant

            Can you spell “Emergency Manager”? You know, the one appointed by Gov. Snyder, the one who over-ruled the Flint city council. Did you even read the article?

      • Maria NoGames

        Second paragraph of the link you posted states:The three-paragraph notice from Detroit Water and Sewerage Department Director Sue F. McCormick does not say water sales would necessarily cease after April 17, 2014 — only that the current arrangement would end.
        Did you read your own citation before posting??

        • disqus654e9725qwe

          Why did Sue send this? What motivated her water dept. to end the contract…right after Flint signed a new pipeline deal. Hint: 1) To screw Flint 2) To get a desperate Flint out of their new deal and into a 30 year extensions with the crooks in Detroit.

        • disqus654e9725qwe

          Why did Sue send this? What motivated her water dept. to end the contract…right after Flint signed a new pipeline deal. Hint: 1) To screw Flint 2) To get a desperate Flint out of their new deal and into a 30 year extensions with the crooks in Detroit.

      • Floridatexan

        Don’t lie…it’s not going to save your corrupt governor.

      • Floridatexan

        Don’t lie…it’s not going to save your corrupt governor.

    • Robert Atallo

      It was really always about how Snyder could give more taxpayer money to his friends. We just didn’t know who. Now we do.

      • weslen1

        Actually, we did and do know who. The Koch Brothers, and a few others. Most of the Republicans are members of ALEC, including Snyder. Now, their newest outrage is writing a law to make pipelines locations a secret. That has to do with the one, filled with dirty tar sands oil, that is located beneath the bridge, in the Straits of Mackinaw. It also includes a whole bunch of new pipelines Snyder and his bunch of Koch Puppets are planning to build for the Kochs to bring that same dirty oil that KXL would have transported all the way down through the center of Michigan. The Kochs own a huge piece of that mess. How many realize there are more than 14,000 wells in MI? Just counting oil and gas? NOT counting water wells.14,000 disasters in waiting while the crooks rub their dirty hands together in anticipation of all those Koch DOLLARS they sold their souls for.

        • StephaneDumas

          No mention of George Soros? 😉

      • falseprophet

        Where is this money you speak of? Just made up redirect from you. Great stories with no substance. Just like a communist propagandist. Just lie and keep repeating it over and over until it becomes fact.

      • falseprophet

        Where is this money you speak of? Just made up redirect from you. Great stories with no substance. Just like a communist propagandist. Just lie and keep repeating it over and over until it becomes fact.

    • http://johnmburt.tumblr.com/ johnmburt1960

      Every time I think the Flint horror has become as abominable as it could possibly be…it gets worse.

    • http://johnmburt.tumblr.com/ johnmburt1960

      Every time I think the Flint horror has become as abominable as it could possibly be…it gets worse.

    • kingdiamond

      Trust me plenty of Michiganders are aware of Snyders cronyism to his rich corporate buddies but what can we do when people vote in Republicans?

      • http://adamgradzki.com Adam Gradzki

        Corruption is not a partisan issue

        • mary k mckay

          But ideology is. And the Republican are all about privatization, deregulation and fracking.

          • FrankieB

            Do you like paying $1.50 for gasoline, Mary ? Or would you rather pay $4/gallon, toots ?

          • Floridatexan

            Gasoline has nothing whatever to do with this discussion, SPORT.

          • FrankieB

            Read Mary’s post above.

          • Ed Bryant

            You sir, appear to be a twit.

          • Laura James

            Hm, haven’t seen a woman insulted with “toots” in ages. Might wanna update your Denigration of Women Dictionary there POPS.

          • LoyalCatholic

            You got it, Miss Curvy Boobs !

          • marid

            More drivel Frank?

        • kingdiamond

          Yes but anyone who thinks that Republicans are not into dirty politics more than Democrats is avoiding the truth

          • Grumpy

            At another time that would be debatable.

            When you’re running Hillary for prez, it’s laughable.

          • thud

            Laughs all around. You are running Christie.

          • Grumpy

            A) You really think Christie is dirtier than Hillary?

            B) Christie is polling at 2%, Hillary at 48%

          • thud

            I don’t support either one. I highly doubt Christie would refrain from exploiting any opportunity given him. They both crave money and power.

          • Grumpy

            I don’t recall suggesting you supported either one.

            I do notice you didn’t answer the question: you really think Christie’s petty scandals are on a level with – say – $6 billion that just plain vanished on Hillary’s watch?

            And, of course, Hillary’s support among Dems is two dozen times as great as Christie’s support among Reps.

            The comparison is – to repeat my earlier term – laughable.

          • thud

            I won’t defend Hilary. I don’t have trustworthy information to make a judgement on which of the two has done worse deeds.I can find internet allegations that Hilary snacks on baby fingers but that hardly changes my opinion of her. What would Christies support be if he didn’t have so much competition? You sought to tar all democrats with Hilary’s misdeeds,will you then accept blame for the crimes of the Reagan mob? If there is something worse that a president can do than lying us into war tell me what that is.

          • Grumpy

            “I won’t defend Hilary”

            Except by whining that others are at least as bad and distracting with presidents from a quarter century ago…..

          • thud

            How is that defending Hilary? I’m not whining. You consider those who bring up the republican crime waves to be whiners? That’s just SPECIAL!!!

            You want to sweep it all under the rug. I don’t , I’d like to nail the bastards regardless of party. With HRC or any of the rights candidates it would be business as usual. That must change and perhaps we agree there. Toss the rascals out!!!

          • marid

            You have to admit the Republicans have far more clowns in the car to share with. The Dems have far fewer and so will have larger shares.

          • Grumpy

            A week later you come back and change the subject?

          • marid

            Sorry to be late.

          • Grumpy

            Sorry to be grouchy about it: yesterday wasn’t an especially good day.

            Anyway, you still didn’t answer the question:

            Do you really think Christie’s
            petty scandals are on a level with – say – $6 billion that just plain
            vanished on Hillary’s watch?

          • marid

            The worst thing to me is that this type of thing continues to happen with either party. How many billions disappeared in Iraq? We continue to elect pols who do not have the welfare of the people at heart, on either side. The Corpse and the Cash run it all. We need to get the cash out of the equation.

          • sanduchi

            You know Grumpy, he just hasn’t had enough time and gathered enough corrupt support but he’s headed in the right direction.

          • sanduchi

            Amen to this comment.

          • Dan LaLande

            A) Absolutely. Hillary is a typical slimy politician, Christie is an insecure bully who uses his power like a mob boss.

            There’s a reason every investigation into Hillary turns up nothing – no matter how much taxpayer money right-wingers waste in witch hunts – while Christie keeps barely avoiding jail by throwing others under the bus when he gets caught breaking the law.

      • Jim

        No one knows who votes for what when evoting counts the votes.

      • rnprn

        I bet it is corrupted and stolen elections on electronic voting machines.

        • WilmaSonoma

          Finally! I am constantly amazed how easy it still is to manipulate our voting system! It’s been broken for many, many years and nobody remembers unless there is an election coming up. Exactly the time during which it is impossible to even raise ANY issue with our very easily manipulated voting system! I do still vote, and every time I do I feel like an idiot for doing it! Really folks … Why even bother to vote?

      • rnprn

        I bet it is corrupted and stolen elections on electronic voting machines.

    • hitmhard313

      Thank you for saying that

    • sean

      Wake up you say? I’m from MI and I voted in the general/mid elections and did NOT vote for snyder. Sad to say that some caucasians don’t care what a man stands for, as long as he is a white republcain, ie..George Bush whom Americans voted in twice!

    • falseprophet

      Don’t you think the democrats that ran Detroit for 40 years bear any responsibility for Detroit’s bankruptcy. Take your head out of the sand or you will suffocate.

    • falseprophet

      Don’t you think the democrats that ran Detroit for 40 years bear any responsibility for Detroit’s bankruptcy. Take your head out of the sand or you will suffocate.

  • Frank Rossman

    Rick Snyder’s gall knows no bounds. He is even willing to use his grandchildren as hypothetical human shields against his toxic water. He’d poison his own kin to save his skin, why would you think he would care about sacrificing yours?

    https://youtu.be/L95rspZoSCE

  • Frank Rossman

    Of course the Snyder Administration’s request for Disaster aid was denied. The US Federal government does not consider a tyrant using chemical weapons against his own citizens as a “Disaster”, that’s considered an “Attack” against his own citizens. The US doesn’t support the Assad administration, nor should they support the Snyder administration. Aid will come, but it must be administered by authorities other than the Snyder administration. Michigan and Syria, worlds apart, but closer than you think.

    https://youtu.be/-B94aVqlkWQ

  • Frank Rossman

    The Governor Snyder plan for Flint: 1. Evacuate Flint 2. Raze Flint 3. Complete KWA pipeline to ensure fresh water for Executive class who will move into….4. New Pulte community built on the ash and bone of Old Flint. Prices starting in the $350,000. Move in as early as Spring 2017

    https://youtu.be/qhx2wQ-2Ccs

  • Frank Rossman

    Another thing folks can do in Flint, Burton, Genesee County, and all of Michigan and the US of A, is REGISTER TO VOTE, and then cast your vote. I would like to see all private water distribution centers and direct water delivery folks asking if folk are registered to vote and providing voter registration forms directly to the affected people. People say they would do anything to protect their children, that includes voting and being aware of crucial public issues. I would challenge the Mayor of Flint, the Faith Leaders of Flint, the Cultural Leaders of Flint to get every eligible voter registered to show Flint is a vibrant, active city with engaged citizens. This will be the story the media will propagate, this will be the story that keeps attention on Flint in the long bottled water months to come. Flint is where the revolution will begin, and that revolution if called Democracy. The greatest lie that the Koch brothers want you to believe is that you vote does not count.

    https://youtu.be/d2-7Jk5iaa8

    • emac2

      Thank you!

      It takes so few people to bring about change and yet everyone sits and cries without even bothering to vote.

    • HistoriCUSS

      Time to watch “The Sting” again.
      The system is not broken. It was designed this way.
      Just a few years after Madison CONcocted the CONstitution, he expressed regret that he had empowered and over-privileged the “minority of the opulent” on his admitted mistaken belief in and reliance on the magnanimous and benevolent nature of this 1%.
      The problems we suffer under are not just the individuals at the helm, but the underlying institutional structure that the CONstitution saddled us with. And we are to vote within this corrupt system, implying acceptance of the sham, thereby conceding to its validity and worthiness?

      “A man is none the less a slave because he is allowed to choose a new master once in a term of years.” – Lysander Spooner

      The system is not broken. It was designed this way. It was designed to prevent participatory democracy and avenues of attaining social justice, for all.

      The system is not broken,it was designed this way. https://youtu.be/V-Q3OgddJDo?t=8m38s

  • Heidi Ausgood

    Think about it. It was to hurt Detroit. The right wing poster child for dismantling African American political prowess is choking on the noose he used to string up Detroit. He was betrayed by a staff who made him the fall guy in the end. I guess it true there is no honor among thieves.
    The treachery of bureaucratic politics proved to be too much for the tough nerd.

    • sbean

      Comments–even those by presidential candidates–that begin with “Think about it.” are usually not very substantive. This was one of those.

      • Heidi Ausgood

        Well that is your opinion and you know what people say about opinions. Tell do you fit the same description. Obviously if you thought so little of the comment yet you felt compelled to reply.

  • willow

    I want to know why EARLEY hasn’t been fired and is successfully flying under the radar.

    • muckraker_steve

      We are close to getting documents to show that Earley lied about having no involvement in the issue.

      • disqus654e9725qwe

        “In Snyder’s desire to keep Flint under the watch of an emergency manager with whom the locals were comfortable — a [black] Democrat — he may have overlooked better candidates with more thoroughgoing approaches to reform. If you’ve followed Flint’s history of nearly criminal misgovernance, you know that what was needed was more iron fist and less velvet glove.”

        In sum, Snyder’s biggest mistake was picking a hack over choosing someone actually qualified to earn $250K.

        Source: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/430072/flint-lead-water-scandal

        • Clarisse73

          I’m sorry, but this so-called hack reported to Gov. Snyder. Why are you trying so desperately to get Snyder off the hook? By the way, it’s not working.

          • Dave J.

            Clarisse, this is a paid shill. View their profile.

        • bryan

          Snyder would deny every part of that quote, of course. So — do you believe Snyder or the National Review?

          Do you believe Snyder when you agree with him, and call him a liar when you don’t?

  • javierjuanmanuel

    “Dan Wyant, who resigned in December”, is there any info on this guy receiving a pension, healthcare package etc. That is par for the course with “resigned” government employees.

    • pat

      “That is par for the course with “resigned” government employees.” I beg to differ javier…that is true for a tiny percentage at the top but if that became true for all gov employees a whole bunch would retire tomorrow!

    • Treez4ever

      Wyant deserved to be fired, but my personal experience suggests that he was not the worst culpriit and may have been on the Governor’s hit list anyway. Now Snyder can slide his loyal supporters in to enjoy a “rescuer honeymoon” while they screw up lots of less-publicized parts of our state. Sometimes the fall guy is just the least helpful guy on the cheating team. Does NOT deserve any future benefits regardless.

  • Steve

    One of these days Steve Nealon will stumble across an actual, real, fully verified story. In the meantime, we are offered one thin reed of information that can be expanded beyond its reasonable limits. Good luck Steve, we’re rooting for ya!!!

  • Steve

    One of these days Steve Nealon will stumble across an actual, real, fully verified story. In the meantime, we are offered one thin reed of information that can be expanded beyond its reasonable limits. Good luck Steve, we’re rooting for ya!!!

    • John E.

      He investigated and obtained the DWSD email which was verified, and proves that Snyder refused a deal which would’ve saves money.

      This is a real story. A bombshell, at that. Maybe you have poor reading comprehension.

      • starry1018

        Odd….I didn’t see Snyders name on said email.

      • Steve

        I thank your your cogent analysis of my intellectual underpinnings. Now go start a water drive or something.

  • Susan Wheadon

    ALEC

  • Susan Wheadon

    ALEC

  • Rick Snyder PR

    You know why he lied, right? Taking Flint off DWSD makes DWSD more in trouble. Kevyn Orr around that time was shopping DWSD if I remember correctly. Let’s put it all together now. You have to make changes to DWSD to either get Macomb/Oakland or a private to hop on board. Put it in a desperate situation for a department that truly cannot lose or make money statutorily. Offer from McCormick in April of 2013? Hmmm, what else happened in 2013? Something in July like a big municipal bankruptcy?

    Conspiracy theory? Maybe. But it makes more sense than them just switching for no good reason other than to spend more. Something seems rotten in Denmark.

    • Rick Snyder PR

      Couldn’t you picture L. Brooks saying he wouldn’t jump into DWSD without Gennessee County since they were big customers and they should have to pay up?

    • alfredo_tomato

      Read Naomi Klein’s “The Shock Doctrine” to see what Snyder is doing to Detroit and the rest of Michigan.

      You might know the shock doctrine by another phrase, “Shock and Awe.” You create a crisis, then impose your own solution for that crisis. It won’t be a solution that the people need, it will be a solution that will make a chosen few even richer.

      Cass corridor resident 1970-1975

    • nef05

      If some consider it a “conspiracy theory”, you’ll find many of us agree with you on this issue.

      This (and the water shutoffs in Detroit in 2014 that resulted in Detroiters going to the United Nations for help) is indeed part of the plan for the privatization of the DWSD. Scientists predict global water shortages to begin in app. 15 yrs. Oil rich families, like the Bushes and Wall St, have been buying hundreds of thousands of acres on top of aquifers w/water rights and corporations like Nestle Co. have been raping our resources, draining freshwater by the millions of gallons in both the Great Lakes and Cali (even during their historic drought), for profit.

      Snyder’s overlords want control of the largest freshwater source in the world by the time those shortages become reality. DWSD was put in the red (in the same manner as the US Postal Service and for the same reason – privatization) intentionally, to justify a takeover that will lead to privatization.

      Consider the power inherent in controlling the largest, most efficient treatment facility, on the largest freshwater source in the WORLD – in a time of global shortage. This is a long-term plan with global implications. Consider “trickle down” taking 30 yrs to come to fruition. Consider the conception of FOX NEWS propaganda machine, by Roger Ailes (in his own handwriting, during the Nixon administration) achieving it’s stated purpose as stated in documents discovered in the Nixon Library a couple years ago. Long-term is nothing new and they’re good at it.

      WATER IS THE NEW OIL, PEOPLE; and the people (and poor folk of Detroit) were nothing but collateral damage on their greedy path to more money, power and control over those whose humanity they dismiss on a daily basis.

      • laten

        I agree, the Bush family owns the land above the largest fresh water aquatic in the world in South America!