Lens on Detroit: Controversial men’s rights group draws protest

Men rights protest

Dozens of protesters converged on a downtown Detroit hotel on Saturday to protest an upcoming conference for a controversial men’s rights group.

Protesters demanded that Hilton Doubletree on E. Lafayette cancel Voice for Men‘s International Conference on Men’s Issues on June 27 and 28, saying the group is misogynistic and dismissive of sexual violence. Voice for Men, for example, accuses women of exaggerating the severity of rape. Its members also “denounce the institution of marriage as unsafe and unsuitable for modern men.”

Part of the group’s mission is to “educate men and boys about the threats they face in feminist governance.”

Organizers of the demonstration amassed more than 3,000 signatures from opponents of the conference but the hotel declined to take the petitions until after the protest dispersed.

All Photos by Steve Neavling

Mens rights protest_5821

Mens rights protest_5824

Mens rights protest_5827

Men rights protest_5869

Men rights protest_5845

Men Rights Protest_5902

Men Rights Protest_5938

Men Rights Protest_5943

Men Rights Protest_5957

Men Rights Protest_5951

Men Rights Protest_5927

Steve Neavling

Steve Neavling lives and works in Detroit as an investigative journalist. His stories have uncovered corruption, led to arrests and reforms and prompted FBI investigations.

  • OpinionsToGo

    Talks from the conference have been posted on YouTube. Listen to them and learn that the presenters are actually reasonable and logical people who discussed real issues seriously.

  • Vanessa Ray

    There is an article on A Voice for Men’s website titled “Study Reveals Female Rape Victims Enjoyed the Experience” with comments from it’s members saying that rape isn’t even a crime. They harass rape victims {see their response to yesallwomen} and fraudulently claim that men are raped by women more than women are raped by men in an effort to hurt the female victims of rape even more. They encourage men to date women from undeveloped countries because they are subservient. They hate feminism because they want doormats…not equals. Until I see these men working to build shelters for abused men or donating their time to assist men who are homeless, I will continue to view them as men who are mad that women are being listened to. As men who are mad that their not the only ones who matter anymore. And as men who can’t handle the thought of being “demoted” from a superior to an equal.

  • Delphi Programmer

    One of the threats men face is the right to meet, date or marry a consenting adult who might come from a country or meet through a venue that feminists don’t approve of. They use metaphoric and hyperbolic language to paint you as a “consumer husband”, “sex trafficker” or “prostitution customer” when all you want is to meet a love companion. They want to use immigration or other laws to deny you your freedom and pursuit of happiness. Numerous research papers have been written about this and the attack is relentless.

  • Jill Drnek

    Since they like to post videos mocking women firefighters, I’m not clear why we should trust a bunch of angry, bitchy men running around in their little pack or whatever in this city. Aren’t they all “ticking time bombs” anyway? Get that crap out of here. You should support Veterans anyway, why don’t you take that 30k and give it to them, they protected your right to free speech. Stunning you didn’t think of this to start, given VETERANS have the largest group of men impacted by poverty and poor mental health resources. I suppose if feminists stopped sending us to war, this wouldn’t be a problem.

  • Jerry Brian

    Was my question such a threat that you had to delete it? Sorry if I scared you Steve!

  • Terrence S M Popp

    i am going to do a comedy video about this on redonkuls.com

  • Jerry Brian

    Steve, why do you cover the most freakish of the radical fringe bearing signs that say “fuck the system” and “smash capitalism” as if they were legitimate protestors? These people are not part of a reasoned discourse.

    • Dennis Markham

      Nor is anyone who tries to shut down free speech.

      • Jerry Brian

        Do you mean by marching about blowing a trumpet and trying to frighten the ninnie somebody at Hilton mistakenly made manager of the Fort Shelby Doubletree?

  • Teflon Expat

    Due to threats received by the hotel shortly after an online petition that was subsequently followed up with an aggressive protest by feminists and union socialists carrying violently-worded signs, the hotel management and staff felt intimated enough to acquiesce and cancel the event.

    The Southern Poverty Law Center acknowledged the men’s group expressed anti-feminism and thus did not declare it to be a hate group. Such sentiment regarding feminism is common in the United States.

    When asked Tuesday whether the event would be moved, an organizer responded: “The DoubleTree GM (general manager) Larry Brown actually said that he has ‘feminist phobia’ and sort of laughed but in a nervous way.

    This information is currently being disseminated via numerous press releases into the mainstream media throughout the day today.

  • Teflon Expat

    “I think it’s not the actual conference program that’s the problem. If you look at the conference program, it’s not an issue. It’s all of the social media that’s very anti-feminist, it’s the messages that are begin sent by the group.”

    –Dr. Heather Delaway, feminist representative

  • Teflon Expat

    This is NOT about women vs men.
    This is entirely and solely about FEMINISTS VS ANTI-FEMINISTS
    That is how the American people see it and that rhetoric will be intensely enforced by AVfM and others.

    • sarahgray

      Sure, Lester. Keep telling yourself that.

      • Teflon Expat

        See you at the hotel in a few days…NOT! chicken. bock,bock,bock,bock,bock,begowwwwk

  • Gunnut2600

    Well good to see all the issues of Detroit have been taken care that we can now piss ourselves away on some losers who can’t get laid, having some lame ass “blame the women” fest.

    Why people chose to feed trolls I have no idea…

    • Teflon Expat

      Getting vagina would take care of all the issues? Do feminists really believe that?

      • Gunnut2600

        Oi piss off wanker.

        No one gives a shit about your hang ups.

    • Dennis Markham

      And feminists deny they engage in virgin-shaming. lol

      • Gunnut2600

        Look…just get laid. A lot of this anger and nonsense will go away.

        Just make sure its consensual.

        • Dennis Markham

          I don’t take advice from beer-guzzling meat heads.

          • Gunnut2600

            No..you just host massive rallies to lament you can’t get laid because its a massive conspiracy against you by the government or whatever.

            That in no way seems utterly pathetic.

  • Teflon Expat

    “I think it’s not the actual conference program that’s the problem. If you look at the conference program, it’s not an issue. It’s all of the social media that’s very anti-feminist, it’s the messages that are begin sent by the group.”

    –Dr. Heather Delaway, feminist representative

  • Dennis Markham

    5 years ago it was “men don’t have any issues, check your privilege malescum.”
    Now it’s “okay, fine, men have issues, but the MRAs don’t know how to deal with them.”
    This means we’ve made tremendous progress in the last 5 years. The culture is changing. If nothing else the MRA has lit a fire under the feet of feminists, so they know they can’t continue to ignore male issues.
    Viva la MRM!

    • Teflon Expat

      Feminists ignoring men is inconsequential. Not showing up screeching, making threats, shaming hotels…that would be a pleasant surprise however.

  • Joy

    The feminist death and bomb threats that AVFM pushed was a total fabrication. http://www.mancheeze.wordpress.com

    Get out of Detroit you male supremacists

    Well, I see the AVFM brigade of commenters are here to make the comment section a shit hole.

    • Teflon Expat

      Those threats are, pleasantly speaking, the biggest thorn ever rammed into the feminists side…because their exposure in the media completely through the feminists off guard and no amount of back peddling could save face. It discredited the entire protest and left the marchers looking like whiney butt hurt children.

      • Auntie Alias

        How could feminists back-pedal when they didn’t threaten anyone to begin with? Even for those who accept the letter as authentic, there’s nothing to indicate where the threats originated.

        • Teflon Expat

          Their CONSTANT harping on this one subject is very telling…at least to the media.

          • Auntie Alias

            Um, most of the harping in the media is coming from AVFM.

          • Teflon Expat

            Not when it comes to all the threat denial. T-5 days. Better hurry

          • Auntie Alias

            No threats known by the hotel or the police. Line that up beside a letter posted by AVFM alleged to be written by the hotel talking about threats. Who am I going to believe? Oh boy, that’s a tough one.

            Did Elam submit proof that police were contracted for extra security and the liability insurance was purchased? If so, let’s see it.

        • Yaka

          Well how about the number of facebook hate pages. You cant deny them.

    • Mike Hunt

      The above commenter is a mentally unstable welfare case who allows wild mice to roam her home. Take what she says with a brick of salt.

  • Dennis Markham

    70% of Jezebel readers have admitted to using violence against their boyfriends, and yet its the MRM which is called violent.

  • Teflon Expat

    A person is LABELED a woman hater arbitrarily based on whatever the accuser determines that is and thats the end of it. A complex autonomous human purposely and strategically reduced to a person who hates women. Ok, so now we all get it. Too bad the M word is so thoroughly burned out and disregard by nearly everyone, huh? Got another for the sake of maintaining the propaganda?

  • Teflon Expat

    They are really making feminists look like threatening, unprofessional shrieking harpies. Sure ya want to go back and do your little cutesy 2 4 6 8 hop scotch?

    http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/allow-the-international-conference-on-mens-issues

  • Teflon Expat
  • Teflon Expat
  • Phil McCracken

    This is what feminism looks like.
    http://youtu.be/iARHCxAMAO0

  • Teflon Expat
    • muckraker_steve

      We’ve heard that the conference is being moved from the DoubleTree. Is there any truth to that?

      • Teflon Expat

        The DoubleTree GM actually said that he has “feminist phobia” and sort of laughed but in a nervous way. So its being discussed.

        • muckraker_steve

          Interesting. Thanks for the update.

          • sarahgray

            What is really interesting is that the GM of the Doubletree is a woman.

  • Teflon Expat

    T-5 days until next feminist public humiliation.

  • Andrejovich Dietrich

    Ultimate irony…One of the ads that pops up on this article is for Bullet Proof vests. Fitting target market when feminists are involved.

  • Vladim Eisenberg

    Hate is not welcome in Detroit, huh? So what are they still doing in there?

    This is the equivalent of Muslims protests in Holland because of Mohammed caricatures. (All while Iran holds a competition for funniest holocaust cartoon yearly)

  • dvc

    Here is David King, a moderator on Avoicefor men, defending feminists –

    Notice that he ingeniously quotes Hoff sommers so that people don’t get suspicious. He is an excellent manipulator, and very subtle at that.

    He is pro-feminism and is trying to legitimize feminism from within the MRM.

  • Kim Detorez

    Here is a 23 year old feminist attacking a 16 year old boy at a beach in Connecticut last week. She did not know the boy had a hat cameral on. She lied to the police and said the boy attacked her. But everyone knows women do not make false allegations against men and boys http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeVaXak7Xnw&list=FL5WfXF96xHFuc9c1T-smn7w&feature=mh_lolz

    • Auntie Alias

      How do you know she’s a feminist or are you just hate-mongering?

      • Gary

        Does she like LeTigre?

        • Auntie Alias

          Who?

      • Kim Detorez

        It was in all of her FB post. What is with your snarky comments??

    • RiseOfDivergents

      life sentence to this woman, she is assaulting civil rights.

  • Mark Samenfink

    “Voice for Men, for example, accuses women of exaggerating the severity of rape.” [citation needed] I’ve seen articles that take issue with the suggestion that a drunk woman having sex with a drunk man means that woman was raped (completely stripping the woman of any personal agency, specifically in how it suggests that she is not responsible for her choices while drunk involving sex but men are, a pretty misogynistic suggestion by feminists if you think about it) because it trivializes the actual act of forcing someone to have sex against their will, often involving violence and severe physical and mental trauma. Also, that argument is against feminist ideologues pushing that suggestion, and last I checked an ideology is not a biological trait.

  • dvc

    David King, one of the moderators on Avoiceformen, is pro-feminism. He is trying to legitimize feminism himself.

    Feminists have nothing to worry about.

    • Auntie Alias

      You’re still at it, eh?

      • dvc

        Auntie, do you remember the article published on AVFM regarding the moderator banning AVFM guys?

        Did you notice how unabashedly David was kowtowing to you Raw Story guys? He even upvoted one of your moderator’s comments. Here –

        • Auntie Alias

          Yes, I remember.

          • dvc

            See? What did I tell you? This is one of those moments where one can say – I told you so!

            Like I said, David King is pro-feminism. You feminists have nothing to worry about.

          • Teflon Expat

            But they are a worrywart bunch, aren’t they? Such ninnies

          • Auntie Alias

            From what I’ve seen of his comments, he’s the opposite of pro-feminist. I thought he sided with the RS mod because he understands the challenges of being a moderator.

          • dvc

            Nope. There were plenty of other mods there. None of them sided with the Raw story mod, except David King.

            He is working for you, not against you. And he is working from the inside of Men’s movement. How good is that for you feminists, right?

            If anything, it is the AVFM guys who should be worried about this. Maybe they will realize it one day. But until then, enjoy.

          • Auntie Alias

            Fascinating theory but pretty hard for him to pull off with so many eyes on him.

          • dvc

            Trust me, I was as surprised as you are. In fact a couple of guys pointed it out as well and questioned Paul. But Paul did not see it.

            If a day comes when Paul finally wakes up to it, that will be hopefully, the end of David King’s tenure on AVFM.

            Let’s see what happens..

          • Auntie Alias

            Isn’t he also the tech god for the site?

          • dvc

            A teenager could do that job. All the person has to do is sit there and monitor things and look for issues if they occur. Then choose between a no. of available solutions. Nothing special about it. He can be replaced in a day.

          • Auntie Alias

            It was his access I was thinking about.

          • RiseOfDivergents

            Oh Auntie, for some reason you bring smile to my face whenever I see you.

            You have no idea how much you have helped MHRM grow. Are you sure, you are a feminist? I highly doubt it!

  • Gary

    Looks like a lot of bad tattoos and fat people

    • Teflon Expat

      Thats what feminists look like. Now we know.

      • Gary

        Mostly union hacks

  • Teflon Expat

    Those who can compete, do. Those who can’t turn to feminism and carry signs.

    And threaten hotels. It is 12:43 pm. How long until the threat-denying autofembot shows up this time?

  • Teflon Expat

    STOP the “International Conference on Men’s Issues!”

    On FB has been deleted or moved.

    They are officially in hiding and scared to show up next week to protest.

    • Auntie Alias

      You mean after AVFM published Emma’s email and encouraged AVFM members to email her employer and demand she be fired?

      • Teflon Expat

        An email is stopping the march? So silly

        • Auntie Alias

          I’m referring to the FB account you mentioned.

      • LostSailorNY

        Proof that AVfM encouraged “members” to email her employer and demand she be fired? AVfM is pretty firmly against doxxing.

  • Bryant Suiskens

    Well, given the extremely high divorce rate and how likely it is for the legal system to fuck you over if you are a man in divorce, i’d say that telling men that marriage might not be such a great suggestion, is just as valid as suggesting that you should not play coin toss with a land mine. because that are the odds: head: nothing good, tails: you get fucked over. a nice 50/50 percent to either win little or lose everything

  • Teflon Expat

    MRA’s are a convenient bogeyman for feminists because they can be slandered all day long without fear of retribution. That’s why they’re picketing a bunch of divorced dads instead of, say, a mosque. Feminists are upset at imaginary “gendered violence” and #rapeculture, but are either too cowardly or don’t care enough to protest the real thing.

    Oh and feminists did threaten the hotel. It is 11:14 AM. Countdown to the first desperate “there is no evidence of that”

    • OldandNavy

      Lol. I’ll start a timer.

    • Auntie Alias

      Still waiting for the evidence that the hotel and police aren’t aware of.

      • Teflon Expat

        A whole 45 minutes! They’re getting worn down.

        • visionary_23

          LOL

          • Teflon Expat

            It is hilarious. But the real humor is the mystery. Why is it so EXTREMELY important for them, this PR, to show that there was no threat? This is a MAJOR thorn in their rectums. Why?

          • visionary_23

            Because they’re aware that allowing a conference on Men’s Issues is a massive loss for feminist control of the dialogue, and so some of their extremist elements made violent overtures, hopeful for a homerun cancellation.

            That didn’t work, and instead backfired, getting the conference publicity on major media outlets, so now they’re attempting to backtrack.

          • Teflon Expat

            Then at this point if the hotel cancels they lose face since the threat is public. If it doesn’t cancel, they lose face for having made the threat against a defiant hotel that the public will sympathize with. If they continue to protest in anger over that defiance what will be the outcome for them?

          • Auntie Alias

            “the threat is public imaginary”

            FIFY

          • Teflon Expat

            And yet remains public and spreading.

          • Auntie Alias

            With no evidence whatsoever to back it up.

          • Teflon Expat

            NOBODY CARES! Except for some jilted bitter feminists. Which means NOBODY CARES!

          • Auntie Alias

            We’ll see about that.

          • Teflon Expat

            That statement indicates a massive amount of uncertainty, especially with 5 days left to the next feminist disaster

          • Auntie Alias

            What happens then? Another protest?

          • Yaka

            Is that a threat?

          • Auntie Alias

            You wish!

          • Auntie Alias

            Because it was a lie and I’d love to see it exposed.

          • Teflon Expat

            Why exactly? Provide details

          • Auntie Alias

            To further damage the credibility of AVFM and especially with the people who donated their hard-earned money.

          • Teflon Expat

            But all you’re doing is enhancing their credibility. Odd that. The donors are so happy the way it all turned out. No matter what you ‘prove’ won’t change that. The strategy of getting members to turn against the group has FAILED.

            This is all about feminist damage control and saving face. The American public already can’t stand feminists and now look at what you all have done. Shame on you.

          • Auntie Alias

            There is no “strategy of getting members to turn against the group.” We’re just watching things unfold and commenting on it. AVFM shoots its own self in the foot with no help from anyone else.

            Imagine how the donors would feel if they found out AVFM didn’t use the money to hire more security and pay for liability insurance. I predict this deal with the Doubletree will fall apart and AVFM will claim the money is going to other worthwhile pursuits – namely, into Paul Elam’s pocket.

          • Teflon Expat

            Nothing is unfolding unless you mean the public mocking of feminists efforts over the past week.

            No. It would go to one of the two other hotels in the are that have agreed to host the conference. Got any more bright ideas?

          • Auntie Alias

            Here’s some mockery for you:
            http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/06/09/dean-esmay-vs-the-princess-studies-professor/

            Even the Fox News hosts looked at Dean like he was from another planet.

          • Teflon Expat

            Reinforced the threat. Thats all that matters

      • Bryant Suiskens

        Auntie Alias. i see you so frequently, so i must ask: are you daily visiting the AVfM website and then go through articles and the “hot on the web” bar just to piss off MRA’s that are doing the same?

        • visionary_23

          She’s actually one of the most frequent visitors to AVFM. Her visits and subsequent misandric rheotric on other commenting boards do more to help Men’s Right’s than any of us commenters could have.

        • Auntie Alias

          I do it to keep tabs on what they’re up to. If it pisses them off, BONUS!

          • Bryant Suiskens

            Just wondering. your presence was too consistent to be by chance. ah well, at least you vs. MRA’s is a nice way to use my popcorn stash

          • Teflon Expat

            More like entertains.

          • Auntie Alias

            Still waiting for the evidence.

          • Teflon Expat

            The American public is not waiting for any such thing. That means:

            YOU LOSE!

          • Auntie Alias

            You’re deluding yourself.

            Why did Dean Esmay say to Fox that AVFM is considering pulling out of the Doubletree?

          • Yaka

            Just like the same standard you apply for wrongly accused of rape. Guilty until proven. In that case man has to prove that he has not raped. In thiis case AVFM has to prove that they did not receive threats. Are you victim blaming? AVFM doesn’t have to prove you anything. They will deal it with authorities.
            By the way it is hilarious that the feminist who was interviewed with Dean on Fox said the conference itself is not an issue. Then why thw hell are you protesting?

          • Teflon Expat

            Extreme anger is driving the protest

        • Auntie Alias

          (wrong reply button)

      • Masta solanas

        Here is what I found on AVFM in the comments section posted by Paul Elam:

        “Now as to your complaint, the case numbers to the Detroit Police Department are 1406060175 and 1405300248.”

        This is supposedly the case numbers for the threats made to the Doubletree. If you would do some investigating, maybe you could solve this mystery once and for all.

        Link to the article: http://www.avoiceformen.com/allnews/avfms-camaign-for-free-speech-reaches-25k-goal-in-under-24-hours/

        • Auntie Alias

          Oh my. The post he was replying to was fascinating. Elam was his usual charming self.

          • Teflon Expat

            Elam is manipulating the feminists. Toying and goading them. Building their infuriation until another cork pops and they react, grab some fresh Sharpies and make fools of themselves AGAIN! Ya can’t win for losing. T-4 days. Giddyup!

  • Rebecca Eatmon

    Many in this group buy wives from the Philipines to cook, clean and suck them off. They are loyal and do as they are told. Pure joy and happiness for the man in the “relationship.”

    • Teflon Expat

      Its understood that most guys just have ‘fun’ with American women, ya know, all that liberation stuff, save their higher incomes and merely move to another country and surround themselves with worthy women and eventually choose a wife.

      • Auntie Alias

        A guy I know made a bunch of promises to a Filipina so she’d marry him. He broke the promises and exploited her shamelessly to live off the money she earned.

        • OldandNavy

          Sounds like an ass. Look around, they are everywhere. Always have been. For your ONE example (that you hold up as erroneously representative) I will give you…Crap….I stopped counting how many dudes I’ve seem stood up similarly.

          Neither your our my examples do a research project make.

          • Auntie Alias

            Like I said above, there’s a perception that Asian women are more submissive than Western women and there are men who deliberately choose them for that reason. The mail-order bride industry is repugnant.

          • Teflon Expat

            Its repugnant that feminists denigrate such women.

          • Auntie Alias

            It’s the men who do that we denigrate.

          • OldandNavy

            Your Perception and the perception of the similarly ignorant. That is their and your problem.

            This imagination does not modify the women of other countries into whatever would make your rhetoric feasible.

    • visionary_23

      Evidence please. That might run afoul of your feminist paradigm of argumentation, but it’s how we work if you want to launch absurd claims.

      • Teflon Expat

        Her ex. Anecdotal evidence is still something.

    • crydiego

      You should spend some time with people in the Philipines. They are not who you think they are.

      • Teflon Expat

        Thats not safe. The gracious loverly women there will rip her a new one for crapping on American men.

    • OldandNavy

      Kind of a gross assertion. What you probably meant to say was the truth: Many western men are looking beyond the west due to the fact that it is far easier to find women that still value men outside of their own poison soaked nations – cooking and cleaning be damned.

      And besides, many see no other alternative. Marrying your average town/city dwelling American woman is just a risk that is becoming less and less defensible by the day.

      • Auntie Alias

        The reality is it’s men looking for women who they think will be more submissive.

        • Teflon Expat

          The reality is it’s men looking for women who they know will be not be a ranting sign carrying rambling feminist.

          FIFY

        • OldandNavy

          Huh. You know, there are an awful lot of Philippina wives around here (mostly due to how many around here have been stationed around those parts) and I can TELL you, because you obviously have less than no clue about these good people.

          Watch the little ladies drive their husband around a store like they had a joystick and sing to me about submissive. Meet AD2 who leads her ass off across the passageway from me and sing to me of your idiocy.

          Go spend some time in country. I have, and I know better and thus I know you don’t have the sense to lie away from subjects you have absolutely negative knowledge about.

          It would be hilarious if I didn’t spend more of my day than I would like to dealing with people who invent reality lock, stock, and barrel in their own freaking imagination.

          • Auntie Alias

            Please read what I write and don’t inject your own spin. I’m not saying they ARE submissive. The few I know are definitely not. I’m talking about an incorrect perception that SOME men have that these women are submissive.

          • Teflon Expat

            Filipinas are a small group but represent the bulk of women on Earth. Its so easy to enter not feminist paradises if a man is so inclined. Feminists HATE that men have that option.

          • Auntie Alias

            In other words, they want to dominate and control women who they think will make it easy for them to do so.

          • Teflon Expat

            Why?

          • Auntie Alias

            Because they’re sexist asshats?

          • Teflon Expat

            Why is there a belief that this scenario is what is wanted? Were they asked? If not, well…just an opinion.

    • Rebecca,
      you’re trolling aren’t you?
      Nobody could be gullible enough to believe the movie of the week propaganda you just wrote.

    • Mike Hunt

      Tee hee.

      I get sucked off by philipinos for free, thank you very much.

  • It’s amazing that so many object to men addressing men’s issues on a National Basis and Internationally.

    Just one example – On the issue of Rape and Sexual Assault for decades there has been the poor quality research, all too often gender biased. When you look at the work of people such as Lara Stemple (UCLA Law).

    The Sexual Victimization of Men in America: New Data Challenge Old Assumptions – Lara Stemple and Ilan H. Meyer – American Journal of Public Health June 2014

    ” A new study that analyzes a range of large-scale federal agency surveys finds that men experience a high prevalence of sexual victimization, in many circumstances similar to the prevalence found among women. The study, entitled, “The Sexual Victimization of Men in America: New Data Challenge Old Assumptions,” is co-authored by Lara Stemple, Health and Human Rights Law Project, UCLA, and Ilan H. Meyer, Williams Institute, UCLA School of Law.

    In one of the studies included in the analysis, the CDC found that an estimated 1.3 million women experienced nonconsensual sex, or rape, in the previous year. Notably, nearly the same number of men also reported nonconsensual sex. In comparison to the large number of women who were raped, nearly 1.3 million men were “made to penetrate” someone else. Despite the use of these two different categories, the CDC data reveal that both women and men experienced nonconsensual sex in alarming numbers.

    The study also included the 2012 National Crime Victimization Survey, which found that 38% of all rape and sexual assault incidents were committed against males, an increase over past years that challenges the common belief that males are rarely victims of this crime.

    “These findings are striking, yet misconceptions about male victimization persist. We identified reasons for this, which include the over-reliance on traditional gender stereotypes, outdated and inconsistent definitions used by some federal agencies, and methodological sampling biases.”

    Can’t allow men to get together and discuss such matters now Can we? Well not unless it’s under the supervision of those who want to keep a false truth in place and not allow the real truth out of the bag.

  • Teflon Expat

    Well looky here. Now Marx and Lenin are back in bed with the feminists who are now regretting allowing them to be in the ‘march.’ How embarrassing.

    http://fuckyeahmarxismleninism.tumblr.com/post/88118787606/detroit-michigan-women-and-supporters-march

    .

  • HankReardon

    I see the very nice, professional signs advocating a boycott say “Endorsed by the AFL-CIO”. Let me guess – the Doubletree is a non-union hotel.

  • Kurt Cook

    MRAs aren’t doing anything Feminazis don’t do.

  • Mann Fuga

    “MGTOW – Men Going Their Own Way – is a statement of self-ownership, where the modern man preserves and protects his own sovereignty above all else. It is the manifestation of one word: “No”. Ejecting silly preconceptions and cultural definitions of what a “man” is. Looking to no one else for social cues. Refusing to bow, serve and kneel for the opportunity to be treated like a disposable utility. And, living according to his own best interests in a world which would rather he didn’t.”

    MGTOW.COM

  • Jade Davis

    This blog is a joke.

  • Auntie Alias

    Thank you to the protesters for holding a successful, peaceful march!

    In spite of what the MRAs are saying, it was a big win for the good guys. They made bogus claims that violence was planned and were wrong, of course.

    • Auntie,
      When will you ever stop lying?

      • Auntie Alias

        Dan,
        When will you ever stop accusing me of lying?

        • Whothehell Cares

          Perhaps when you stop lying. So, never, I guess.

          • Auntie Alias

            Grow up.

          • visionary_23

            Pot, here’s the kettle. It’s black.

        • When you stop lying.
          Simple concept isn’t it Auntie?
          I give you credit where credit is due and you know this.
          So care to give us estimate when you will stop lying?

        • Aaron

          The irony of this comment is off the charts.

        • Mike Hunt

          Auntie Alias is David Futrelle.

    • visionary_23

      If by “good guys” you mean the status quo bigots who have no compunction with advocating apathy for men and boys while focusing on every perceived trivial slight for women, then yes, they were able to finally pull of a protest without illegally pulling fire alarms and intimidating innocent people.

      But most people don’t view misandric bigots as “good”. Unless you’re a feminist, apparently.

    • Bryant Suiskens

      And we all thank our feminists friends for their unyielding struggle in giving Avoiceformen.com more page views. truly, thank you all

  • Tyler Aram Vosgerchian

    Deplatfoming and protests: Ok when men do it
    http://rabble.ca/podcasts/shows/feminist-current/2013/04/mras-vs-rad-fem-2013
    AVFM is showing themselves to be the spineless hypocrites we all knew they were.

    • Teflon Expat

      Did AVfM state anywhere that is not Ok for feminists to protest? If they have compelling valid points then they will succeed.

      • Tyler Aram Vosgerchian

        If they really thought it was ok for feminists to protests then AVFM wouldn’t be spreading libel to the press. Neither the Detroit Police Department nor the Doubletree hotel can verify the existence of death threats or a security deposit.

        • visionary_23

          Reporting the hotel’s request for extra security due to death threats != libel to the press.

          Though please, continue throwing out your baseless hyperbole. It makes you look, uh, smart.

        • Bryant Suiskens

          Let me clarify why Doubletree does not want to admit the death threats.

          now, you work at the hotel. someone calls you. ask about the death threats. there are too possibilities:

          1. the person on the phone is a feminists trying to verify the statements of your client.

          2. the person is a worried client.

          great business decision to tell your client that booking at your hotel might put them in danger. the fear mongering the MRA did might have costed the Doubletree a lot of clients. and i do not think that the police is authorised to release this info. you wanna know whether AVfM is bluffing to get money? go to the convention. see how much police there is. and then see if you can tell the MRA that they did or did not con us.

    • Oh my friends over at rabble.
      Meg Murphy who interviews the Scottish woman is against transsexual rape victims receiving treatment for being raped.
      And here is a lovely little quote from one of those rad-fems.
      Such a nice bunch as you’ll see.
      “….Even if we killed off 90% of men, the majority of women left over would do their best to keep the oppressive system. I’d dare say we’d have to kill off all the women too and leave the little girls and radfems to create the utopia.

      Great post. Just what I’ve needed to read to help clarify what exactly Radical Feminism is today.”

      https://radicalhubarchives.wordpress.com/2011/10/04/radical-feminism-in-the-21st-century/

      Care to bring out more of those ‘nice’ ‘peaceful’ feminists your supporting?
      We love it when people like you do as it just helps the non-feminist community grow.

      • Teflon Expat

        With this sort of rhetoric, there can be an inference drawn. It seems that the MRA attempts to carve out a better life within the current system and would be fine with a few tweaks whereas the RadFem wants to completely redo the system. Like a Marxist.

        • sarahgray

          no, the current system is not just fine.

          But I don’t hold myself out as having the same views as people who say violent hateful things about men and the transgender community.

          That is a tiny percentage of feminists, as opposed to your *leaders* who encourage violence and hate against women.

          • See that’s where you are wrong Sarah.
            You took satire as truth. No MHRA leaders advocate for violence and you know it.
            Secondly you figure these feminists have no power?
            Well more than 1 is a university professor. Then there are the ones affecting policies and such in their jobs as government employees.
            And then there is the fact that the rank and file coffee-shop feminists unknowingly support these feminists every-time they say its misogyny when we criticize their hatred.
            Then their is idiots like Sandberg*(sp) wanting to ban the word bossy.
            Or how about Barbara Ellen defending Solange for her attack on Jay-Z.
            But you go Sarah defend these anti-human rights feminists, while they stealthily create policies and laws removing equal rights for half the population.
            Defend these feminists who hate women and seek to have adult women never be treated as adults in society.
            That is true hatred of women, the misogyny found in feminism.

          • sarahgray

            How is that more power than, you know, actually being in charge and making decisions?

          • I don’t know which is more powerful.
            A) Having the power to do something
            or
            B) Having the power to get someone to do something for you?
            IMHO scenario B is more powerful and feminism has been doing that for 50 years or so now.
            And remember its women who helped vote the politicians in, equal opportunity does not guarantee equal outcome.

          • sarahgray

            Having the power to do something. Its pretty simple, really.

          • Are you comfortable with that assumption?
            Because presidents and major companies around the world believe differently.

          • visionary_23

            White people have had the power to get black people to do things for them for hundreds of years. You should tell black people your opinion of how they should count themselves lucky.

          • Bryant Suiskens

            bullseye!

          • Paul Johnson

            Because you don’t have to be accountable if something goes wrong.

          • Teflon Expat

            Uh, yeah it is. A few adjustments and it would be better. Go ahead and try your radical marx crap. Good luck. You don’t have a chance, and that is aok.

          • visionary_23

            as opposed to your *leaders* who encourage violence and hate against women.

            Thankfully, none of “our leaders” do that whatsoever.

            Oops.

          • alex brown

            Stop the gaslighting and false accusations.

            How are you lie like thiat.

          • Teflon Expat

            Its a strategy and not really a supportable belief. The demonizing works if it the majority of people believe it. The past week has been a disaster for the feminists since Elam saw it coming and boomeranged it right back. That escalated the feminists anger and a few stragglers are still lashing out. It will die down soon.

      • Tyler Aram Vosgerchian

        Wow where did you learn your reading comprehension…?

        AVFM hasn’t only been criticizing our ideology but also our tactics. Why is ok for them to protest what they perceive as a hate group but not for us?

        If you had any reading comprehension you’d be able to tell that AVFM is as hateful as RadicalHub.

        • Teflon Expat

          Again, where is its stated that it is not ok for feminists to protest? They just suck at it.

          • Whothehell Cares

            Let me correct a minor rhetorical error.

            “They just suck.”

            Every word after that is redundant.

        • Well let me speak as the Canadian news director for AVFM.
          Protest all you want we welcome it. And in fact those radfems were offered a place to have their event by a AVFM supporter.
          “MHRA offers to salvage Radfem conference”
          http://www.avoiceformen.com/a-voice-for-men/mhra-offers-to-salvage-radfem-conference/
          And I’m not even entirely sure it was MHRM members who had the radfem event canceled, I believe trans-advocates may have, but could be wrong on that.

          Does that clear any confusion you have?

        • Phil McCracken

          You’re lying. AVFM promotes your right to protest and free speech even while theirs is under threat.

        • visionary_23

          Because you all consistently resort to illegal activities like pulling fire-alarms, intimidating innocent onlookers, and threatening violence on social media platforms at your “protests”.

          Sorry, bro, but that ain’t the same as MRA’s advocating for the equality of men and boys.

        • Bryant Suiskens

          okay. show us articles (which are not obviously satire. we do these from time to time just to have a laugh at feminists seeking to quotemine us) that are as hatefull as a person preaching genocide. you make the claim, the burden of proof is on you.

        • DEDC

          Uh, because you’re wrong.

          And you admit that RadicaHub is hateful. We make no such admission about AVFM. And that admission is not yours to make. You don’t even know what it is about.

        • Mike Hunt

          Haha. Yeah. Okay. Whatever. *eyerolls*

    • Bryant Suiskens

      And when we would be protesting Neo-nazi’s who are saying the jews should be massacred, you would tell us that there is no problem. But oh no, it is so much different when a bunch of women with mental issues (this actually is a consistent factor amongst radfems; mental issues) who preach that the world would be a better place without men, or that all men should be castrated, or that whenever a women makes a claim of rape, it suffices as all the evidence needed, or that men should pay a tax just for being men, or that re-education camps (=indoctrination) should be established to teach all men how to behave. i can continue this list for a long time, tl:dr, i think it should be acceptable to protest against genocide advocates.

      also, we do not tell the feminists that they cannot have this protests. heck, why should we? they are our foremost recruiters. whenever they make a scene and try to slander us, we get waves of pageviews. they are the main reason we are growing at an explosive rate. we just detest sending death threads towards our hosts. i think we can all agree that shooting the messenger will not help.

      we live of the endless hatred of feminists. it is what changed Avoiceformen from a simple, one man blog, into the main hub of the men’s rights movement.

      so please, by all means, don’t stop. don’t stop increasing the hatred and disdain against feminism. don’t stop nurturing us

  • Teflon Expat

    Bottom line, this is not going so well for the feminists. Going forward, goading them is a cheap shot and should not be tolerated. Let them get back on their feet, regroup and even up the score. Play fair.

    • Auntie Alias

      Decent people – and not just feminists – know a hate group when they see one.

      • Whothehell Cares

        Which is why the majority of people don’t associate with Feminists.. Glad feminists are also able to see how hateful they themselves are too.

  • sarahgray

    This is the group being hosted:
    http://tinyurl.com/k6kfpaz

    • Teflon Expat

      And the response to this carefully selected article is…what? Make fools of yourselves in public?

    • Not even the Hilton is buying your lies Sarah.
      Just like the rest of society.
      Common sense people see what is actually happening to their loved ones, friends etc. What they have witnessed in their lives does not line up with what feminism claims.
      Keep it up your only driving more people away from feminism and towards common sense.
      Thanks for wall the work you do for non-feminists.

      • Auntie Alias

        Oh look. It’s Dan accusing someone else of lying because that’s all he’s got.

        • Auntie do you really want me to start pulling up your stuff?
          BTW the Hilton refused to take the protesters petition from what I understand.
          More proof will come to light as we get closer to the 25’th.
          I doubt feminists are going to like it but they never have had much use for the truth.
          The truth doesn’t make them money.

        • Phil McCracken

          I have screenshots of some of the more vile and threatening things you’ve written. Even the ones that the mods deleted and warned you about from another site. Your hate speech is being recorded.

          • Auntie Alias

            Perfect example of what AVFM is about: lies, threats, and intimidation. Some activism, dude.

          • Phil McCracken

            You making threats of violence =/= I made threats. Unless responsibility for your own actions is threatening to you.

          • Auntie Alias

            Whatever, dude. You don’t scare me and you won’t shut me up.

          • Phil McCracken

            By all means keep talking(digging up).

          • Teflon Expat

            More like digging a hole and throwing in the entire bus with feminists under it

      • Bryant Suiskens

        Amen. lets take this moment to give a loud thank you towards the feminists for their unyielding effort in making us more popular and increasing the web traffic on AVfM. thanks feminists, we never would have gotten to where we are without the lot of you screaming at us and making the neighbours wonder what the fck is happening. thank you, for recruiting all those nice anti-feminists to our cause.

        • Teflon Expat

          How much longer before the Great Feminist Masters reign in these loose-canon minions?

  • HankReardon

    Seeing a guy holding a sign that says “Boycott Doubletree Hotel”. Wouldn’t a successful boycott of the hotel eliminate housekeeping and other jobs – jobs often done by the very women these protesters are supposedly “championing”? Seems short-sighted to me. Let them have their boy-con, ignore it, and then move on.

    • Teflon Expat

      Oh no. out of the question. These is a breed of feminists. They don’t play that way. They actually think the public cares about what they have to say since they are so right about every one or their self serving prickly demands and entitlements.

    • The hotel has terrible working conditions including wages that are far below the standard rate for hotel employees. The union joined our protest due to this conference being just one of many issues the staff faces while they work. They are also trying to support the workers to get them better working conditions including full time labor and access to benefits.

  • Teflon Expat

    Is this Detroit TV news coverage good for feminism?

    http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/clip/10245595/lir-wknd-6-8-14-pt-3

    • sarahgray

      well, considering they were inaccurate in their reporting, that’s bad for their viewers, that’s for sure.

      • Teflon Expat

        Its what the viewers already expect. No harm done. Keep it up and it goes no national TV.

  • Teflon Expat

    More fun to come next weekend. This conference has become an even larger event for AVfM than could ever be imagined…or it might have anticipated that this would happen given how much shrewder than feminists they are. Feminists march on! March on for your Master!

    • Auntie Alias

      “The MRA’s will bring in more media outlets to cover it.”

      Excellent. They’re doing a splendid job of showing themselves to be a hate group. Esmay’s appearance on Fox News was a win for all women.

      • Teflon Expat

        What is a hate group?

        • Bryant Suiskens

          a group which has its objective to spread hate about something. like feminism.

      • Bryant Suiskens

        then what did he say? he said that the courts are corrupt. he said that DV is not a gendered issue. I am genuinely surprised that Esmay did not quote the CONSAD statistic on the actual pay gap when the feminists professor brought it up.

      • Mike Hunt

        You are delusional.

  • muckraker_steve

    Thanks, everyone, for keeping the dialogue relatively positive. Our only rule is to be civil and refrain from name-calling. If you resort to name-calling or threats, we’ll have to remove your comment. We’ll be monitoring the board throughout the day. If you come across something threatening and the comment hasn’t been removed, please email us at info@motorcitymuckraker.com. Thanks for being respectful to each other.

    • Phil McCracken

      Some of us have taken screenshots of threatening language from this group of protestors of the conference taken from their groups facebook page. One comment said something like “Trigger Warning: These people(MRA’s) make me trigger happy”. If you would like I can email you this.

  • Teflon Expat

    Discussion stopping feminist thought police – 0
    The American people – 100
    What a great day in history this is.

  • Teflon Expat

    From Fox News:

    http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/25722235/let-it-rip-weekend-gms-mea-culpa-uaws-hard-line-mens-group-threatened

    “The International Conference on Men’s Issues will take place at the Doubletree June 26-28th with extra security. That’s because the confab has received threats of violence from some who have called them a hate group. Dean Esmay says there’s nothing further from the truth. He’s helping to organize the event and says his organization simply stands up for men’s issues against what he calls the abuses of feminism. Also joining us is Heather Dillaway, a professor of Sociology from Wayne State University, who says Esmay is probably misdirecting his anger.”

    In summary, the feminists are once again losing the PR war. Now get marching!

    • sarahgray

      there is no proof of any threats of violence.

      • Teflon Expat

        America is not asking for proof. Better hurry and get the word out. Get cracking!

        So what if feminists did make threats? It shows how tough you guys are. How is that not good for boosting your fledgling ‘movement?’

        Now with all those protest photos that harken back to the 60’s with cries of patriarchy and the like, what is American to believe? Cant have it both ways.

        • sarahgray

          I’m not sure how pictures of a protest conflict with the fact that we made no threats.

          • Teflon Expat

            Bullied a hotel. Entered hotel and left some crybaby petitions. Forced the hotel to have intimated guests enter and exit via the side door. Yelled about a group no one has ever heard of and used that platform to pontificate feminism which demonstrated desperation. Exhibited anger. So anyone who claimed they were threatened that day is going to be believed. In other words, ya all blew it.

          • sarahgray

            No one was threatened.
            One person entered the hotel.
            Hardly intimidating.

          • Teflon Expat

            Here, send this so that the threat is a bit more professional –

            Dear Hotel: please be advised that you will be protested and boycotted if you do not abide by our self righteous self appointed unilateral demands to send a message to the those who upset us by not permitting them to assemble and talk at your facility in two weeks.

          • sarahgray

            That’s how boycotts and protests work.
            WE don’t want a hate group hosted in Detroit.

          • Teflon Expat

            Then the public image of your group will be controlled by others and the result you receive will be counter to the result you seek and in fact worse. That is already happening. The ‘hate group’ label is not working. Sympathy for the protestors is not happening. Avoiding the bully and threat label is not going well. Its all being interpreted as just one more feminist venting session. Elam is many steps ahead pulling the strings and you’re all walking into an abyss

          • gary959

            You don’t get to decide – at least NOT ANY MORE!

          • Phil McCracken

            Then stop participating in one.

          • Bryant Suiskens

            And WE want you to continue saying this so people are going like “ah not the feminists again”, become anti-feminists, and eventually pick sides and become MRA. thank you, my dearest recruiter!

          • Teflon Expat

            Smack. Down.

          • crydiego

            If people go to A Voice For Men website they will see the truth. This is not an anti women site, it is however up against feminism because it advocates equal rights.

      • Jonathan Taylor

        You’re right, there is no proof that AVFM threatened anyone with violence.

        Those who wish to protest them, on the other hand…

        • sarahgray

          There is no proof that the hotel received any threats.

          • Jonathan Taylor

            We have 100% verifiable proof that threats and suggestions of violence and other forms of criminality were made on the protest organization page on Facebook.

          • sarahgray

            You have proof that we deleted comments that were inappropriate, but not threats.

            And we have the same, though the comments posted on AVfM were clearly advocating violence and harassment.

            Posting the contact information for someone’s employer when there is no evidence they have done anything to harm you or threaten you is bullshit.

          • Auntie Alias

            Let’s see this 100% verifiable proof and don’t forget to include the murder threats that were claimed.

            P.S. A fake letter from the hotel doesn’t count.

          • gary959

            If you think any MRA would waste time – and our good name -to fake a threatening letter – you’re not in touch w/reality. EVERY EFFORT WE MAKE IS TO FURTHER MEN’S RIGHTS -EXCLUSIVELY!

          • Auntie Alias

            If you think Elam wouldn’t scam his followers out of money, you’re out of touch with reality. Where’s the proof of payment he was supposed to submit to the Doubletree by June 6?

          • Bryant Suiskens

            i will ask some attendees to see if there is actually additional police security. will that count as evidence?

      • Phil McCracken

        I have proof.

  • Guest

    I believe that what people are missing is the incredibly violent rhetoric that this hate group sends out to their members. Any credibility of real issues these people have are lost when they follow leaders that advocate things like “Bash a violent bitch day” and tells feminists that “the idea of fucking your shit up gives me an erection.”

    Yes, those are real quotations. Oh, and the Detroit organizer is even crazier. Climate skeptic, conspiracy theorist, etc.

    AVFM has real problems, and does their members and issues a disservice. Rape apologists never will get a voice in any legitimate sense.

    • Flo

      “The male is a domestic animal which, if
      treated with firmness…can be trained to do most things.” — Jilly
      Cooper, SCUM (Society For Cutting Up Men, started by Valerie Solanas)

      “If
      life is to survive on this planet, there must be a decontamination of
      the Earth. I think this will be accompanied by an evolutionary process
      that will result in a drastic reduction of the population of males.”
      –Mary Daly, former Professor at Boston College, 2001.

      “All men
      are rapists and that’s all they are” — Marilyn French, Authoress;
      (later, advisoress to Al Gore’s Presidential Campaign.)

      “The
      proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10%
      of the human race.” — Sally Miller Gearhart, in The Future – If There
      Is One – Is Female.

      “I feel that ‘man-hating’ is an honorable and
      viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred
      against the class that is oppressing them.” — Robin Morgan, Ms.
      Magazine Editor.

      “Colored people are like human weeds and are to be exterminated.”
      Margaret Sanger

      “Feminism,
      Socialism, and Communism are one in the same, and Socialist/Communist
      government is the goal of feminism.” – Catharine A. MacKinnon

      “To
      call a man an animal is to flatter him; he’s a machine, a walking
      dildo.” — Valerie Solanas, Authoress of the SCUM Manifesto (SCUM stands
      for Society for Cutting Up Men)

      “Life in this society being, at
      best, an utter bore and no aspect of society being at all relevant to
      women, there remains to civic-minded, responsible, thrill-seeking
      females only to overthrow the government, eliminate the money system,
      institute complete automation, and destroy the male sex.” — Valerie
      Solanas

      • Auntie Alias

        The usual boilerplate text. Yawn.

        • Jean Valjean

          Oh. So when feminists express hate it’s OK.

          Thanks. I got it now.

          • Auntie Alias

            “All men are rapists and that’s all they are” — Marilyn French, Authoress; (later, advisoress to Al Gore’s Presidential Campaign.)

            This is a quote from a book of fiction written by French.

            There are two quotes by Solanas who has been dead for decades.

            If that’s the best you guys can come up with, it’s obvious you don’t have a leg to stand on when it comes to “men’s rights”. All you ever talk about is women’s wrongs.

          • gary959

            Hillary’s not dead – as well as many other bigoted feminists

          • Jean Valjean

            Feminists are much more subtle in their bigotry these days..

            For instance the theory of rape culture which presumes that rape is everywhere and it is men’s obligation to tell men not to rape because without special instructions we might rape women.

            It’s the “all men are rapists” all over again only this time it’s hidden in manipulative language.

            And then there was Radfemhub where they planned out the mass genocide of 90% of the worlds men and any women who might resist that.

            Then there are countless Twitter and Facebook accounts expressing hatred for men.

          • Auntie Alias

            No sane person ever said “All men are rapists.” It’s been said that all men are potential rapists but the same could be said for women!

            It’s not that it’s “men’s obligation to tell men not to rape because without special instructions we might rape women.” The traditional masculine gender role reinforces the idea that sexual conquest makes one manly and earns approval from other men. This applies even when sex is nonconsensual. In other words, the conquest matters more than consent. Men can refuse to engage in this kind of backslapping approval and call out other men who sexually prey on women. That’s all it means.

          • Teflon Expat

            Women would get the high-five from other women if it actually took any effort for them to get laid. Which it doesn’t.

          • Auntie Alias

            Huh? That has nothing to do with sexual violence against women.

          • DEDC

            What about the wymyns?

          • crydiego

            The first paragraph of your comment was a big step into the light for you or you are an MRA playing devil’s advocate.

          • Auntie Alias

            Don’t you remember me? We talked recently. (I’m no MRA.)

          • crydiego

            Yes, I remember you but I don’t remember you saying anything like, “women could be potential rapist!”

          • Auntie Alias

            I’ve said it but probably not to you personally. I’m just surprised you thought I could be an MRA.

          • crydiego

            Well, that was just a jab. I’m pretty sure you aren’t in the MRM camp but I am not so sure how feminist you are either.
            As for me, I can say I was pro-feminist at one time. Then I watched as power corrupted and politics posessed the body.
            Now I am for full equality and I don’t think there any other option. Feminism is not about equality, it is a political entity and not owned by women.

          • Auntie Alias

            I’m not much for labeling feminism in terms of type or intensity. All I know is that I’m not a radical.

            Getting back to “All men are potential rapists,” if you’ve heard of Shrodinger’s Rapist, that’s really what is meant by it. Most women have been targeted by predators and have learned to be cautious around men they don’t know and trust. It’s not that men are untrustworthy by virtue of their gender. Women are usually at a physical disadvantage and that makes them more vulnerable if a man does turn out to be sexual predator. It’s a matter of self-preservation to be careful when a woman doesn’t know a man very well.

          • alex brown

            “Most women have been targeted by predators and have learned to be cautious around men they don’t know and trust. ”

            Mental abuse and torture.

            How many boys have been abused by their mothers? Does that mean all boys should fear all females?

            Your attempt at manipulation and guilt fails.

          • Auntie Alias

            “Mental abuse and torture.”

            Oh jeez.

          • crydiego

            You mean to say that rapist target those who are weaker than themselves.
            The feminist talk is different and targets a gender, and I mean targets. However, I don’t equate feminist to mean women. Feminism is now a political ideology that generates millions apon millions of dollarrs and votes. The indoctrination starts in grade school and ends with a gender studies degrees; it is political!
            The men’s movement is doing all it can to not support the right or left; women are people, but men are people too.

          • Auntie Alias

            “You mean to say that rapist target those who are weaker than themselves.”

            Sure, that works. I was talking in gender-specific terms to address Jean Valjean’s statement and to reference the Shrodinger’s Rapist article.

            I’m sorry but most of that paragraph is ripped straight out of AVFM propaganda. The bit about feminism being a multi-million dollar industry is absurd. As if anyone but a small percentage of individuals ever hold salaried positions paid by government grants to do research and education in women’s issues or work in women’s DV shelters. Most feminists – people like myself – receive no monetary gain from it. There is no indoctrination in schools.

            Of course men are people too and are just as worthy as women are.

          • crydiego

            You said, “The bit about feminism being a multi-million dollar
            industry is absurd.”

            However, I didn’t say that, I said: Feminism is now a political
            ideology that generates millions upon millions of dollars and votes.

            It is the political aspect that you want to ignore but that is
            the problem with feminism; it’s political influence! I could just as easily claim that the political parties are not a multi-million dollar industries, – because
            they are not industries!

            I see how feminism was courted, embraced, and finally taken over
            by the political left. Both sides wanted it but the left won. Now the right is back in the game with Hoff Summers and the right pushing religion and traditionalism to feminist before the election.
            You don’t see them courting any
            men’s rights groups because they don’t have the money or vote pull.

            AVFM actively avoids being political.

            If you don’t see the feminist agenda in the schools or the world then you should sign up for a men’s studies course at your local collage or
            visit one of the men’s DV shelters.

          • Auntie Alias

            I’d say feminism aligned with left-wing parties because they were more in tune with equality and social justice issues. Right-wing parties are bigoted in every conceivable way and cater to straight, white men. I don’t see how this “generates millions upon millions of dollars.” For what purpose?

            I predict the right’s war on women is going to bite them big time in the next election. Every day another right-wing idiot reveals their misogynist beliefs. An army of token women spouting men’s rights rhetoric won’t be able to offset the damage the right is doing to their own reputation.

            “You don’t see them courting anymen’s rights groups because they don’t have the money or vote pull.”

            Pardon? Are you talking about the political right?

            What might I learn at a men’s DV shelter to convince me there’s a feminist agenda? I rather doubt I’d be allowed into one.

          • Teflon Expat

            What is a “misogynistic belief” or “woman-hating belief?” What are some examples?

          • Auntie Alias

            If I stick to right-wing politicians and pundits, they believe women should stay at home and be traditional housewives, that women are responsible when they are raped, and that men have the right to deny women bodily autonomy when it comes to health care, particularly when it comes to abortion.

          • Teflon Expat

            Having a preference for women who want to stay home is women hating? Interesting. If a woman is raped and someone believes that she was responsible, well that is ignorance. How is it women hating? If a person does not want there to be abortions, how is that women hating? Going here by the literal definition of misogyny, which is obsessively hyperventilated daily to the point now where the American public is no longer listening. Time to take on another word perhaps?

          • Auntie Alias

            When it’s phrased as “A woman’s place is in the home,” followed by whining that working women are destroying “family values” and are taking away men’s jobs, that’s misogyny. Women deserve to choose their own path, whether it’s a stay-at-home-mom or CEO.

            If you look closely at the anti-abortion stance, there are tell-tale signs of misogyny; e.g., “keep your legs together,” restricting access to abortion by imposing laws that put clinics out of business, and insisting on transvaginal ultrasounds to try to shame women into not getting an abortion. These attitudes communicate the idea that women are inferior and need to have their sexuality shamed and controlled.

            Consider being on the receiving end of a constant stream of messages that you are inferior, stupid, depraved, unintelligent, childlike, promiscuous, etc. That’s hate and I can assure you it’s unpleasant.

          • Teflon Expat

            Has anyone taken the bold step of merely asking people who have such convictions if it is hate or is it just a nice convenience to say so?

          • Auntie Alias

            Ask a racist, homophobe, anti-Semite, and a misogynist whether their views stem from hatred and you will get the same answer: “No, of course not.”

          • Teflon Expat

            A person is labeled a misogynist arbitrarily based on whatever the accuser determines that is and thats the end of it. Its a person who hates women. Ok, so now we all get it. Too bad the word is so thoroughly burned out and disregard by nearly everyone, huh? Got another for the sake of propaganda?

          • Auntie Alias

            WRONG. There are familiar themes that targets of hate recognize. If someone takes one of those and runs with it, they shouldn’t be surprised or upset at being called out for it.

          • Teflon Expat

            ‘Themes’ made strategically quasi ‘familiar’ by certain interest groups. Also known as propaganda. Neither surprising nor upsetting, not in the least. Its PR war and right now the MRAs are winning.

          • Auntie Alias

            Does that apply to people of colour, the LGTBQ community, Jews, Muslims, etc.? Or is that characterization reserved solely for women?

          • crydiego

            Yes the left was more in tune, just as the right was more in tune with the religious groups, or the tea party. What happens after they join is the parties take over the message! The parties say that they are the movement. The right and left only have to divide us and they are good at it. Most people agree on issue more than they disagree but the parties can’t have that because it makes campaigns complicated.
            If you look at feminism as defined in a dictionary, most Americans would agree with it. The right can’t allow that however because it is owned by the left. Think about who owns religion, unions, the tea party, blacks, whites, men or any number of things that divide America.
            I respect AVFM because it tries very hard to be non political. This is not about politics it is about equality. An equality that most people can understand and support regardless of party; what feminism should have been.
            There are no men’s DV shelters in your area and there are no men’s studies and I don’t even know where you live!

          • Auntie Alias

            “What happens after they join is the parties take over the message!”

            I don’t see that happening in the U.S. at all. The Dems support some feminist ideals and ignore others. They pick what they think will get votes. So do the Republicans. I guess if that’s what you mean by taking over the message, then okay, but it’s opportunistic cherry-picking more than anything. It’s not like feminism has sown up the left lock, stock, and barrel. That would be like saying the MRM has the right sown up which isn’t true either.

            On your last assertion, you’re wrong actually. Those programs may be rare but they’re not non-existent.

          • crydiego

            Well first off, the right can go eat shit and howl at the moon!
            Lets take abortion or gun ownership. Most of American agree on the issues. No matter what you and I may think, the core arguments are not argued by most Americans. It is the extremes that make people balk and that is where the parties hold on to their voters. If you don’t agree that abortion should be legal up to the time of high school, you’re anti abortion. If you don’t believe that anyone should be able to by grenade launchers you are anti-gun. The parties boil it down to baby killers and gun nuts and they control the issues.
            It is time to push for equality and these parties don’t want that issue resolved. You can’t get there with feminism.
            AVFM is for the equal rights amendment but they refuse to join the left or the right. If they ever do I will be the first to leave them.

            These programs are rare. Yes you are right, but remember: women are people, but men are people too.
            Thanks for the talk, and you can have the last word.

          • crydiego

            Auntie, the rest of our comments disappeared. In fact, a great many of my comment are gone. You should check your own. They must not like people like us.

          • Auntie Alias

            That’s strange.

          • Jean Valjean

            I’ve never in my life met a man who thought that sex without consent was appropriate.

            That is a feminist concoction based on hatred of men.

            Conquest is important to men because women have a monopoly on reproduction.

            Without men working hard to overcome women’s genetic and socially programmed proclivity to discriminate against men the human race would quickly die out.

            If women were not hypergamist, if they didn’t discriminate based on income, height, status, etc. then male conquest would be irrelevant.

            If a man could walk into a bar and say, “Hello. I find you attractive. Tell me about yourself,” and not have her crinkle up her nose in disgust then conquest would be irrelevant.

            Feminists demand to be treated like equal human beings while retaining their privilege of treating any man or all men like garbage.

            If a man works hard and can overcome a woman’s bigotry why shouldn’t we be proud of that? Why shouldn’t other men hold him in high esteem and learn from him?

            Frankly, it is bigotry to act like sex with men somehow harms women.

            That is part of the bipolar nature of feminism.

            At once you want to denounce men for wanting sex and pass draconian laws that punish us for any breach in protocol while also saying that women should be able to have as much sex as they want but there should be no rules or consequences regarding her behavior.

            Women get freedom. Men get to walk a legal tight rope.

            And this is what feminists call “equality.”

          • Teflon Expat

            Women can get laid whenever the urge moves them because there are always-willing men in abundance. Therefore they can choose the most attractive since all are willing. The guy who succeeds is going to be admired by women and other men. Women who get laid don’t brag about it as this like bragging about being able to breathe given all the accessible air. If its easy to get its considered cheap.

          • DEDC

            That’s it. More non sequiturs.

            You are not consistent. Are you saying that women are responsible for their own organization (what is and isn’t womanly, feminine what constitutes their own gender roles) and men are responsible for their own? OK then. Shut the fuck up about slut-shaming or image-shaming or weight-shaming. It is a woman’s problem, women need to fix it.

            Moreover, if rape is a male-self-organizational issue, then all or any woman needs to stay the fuck out of it.

            No, we know what is going on here. Women’s problems are because of men and men’s problems are because of men and YOU hate men. Just admit it. I mean it is obvious you have no shame in hating men, so why can’t you just admit it? I know why: your whole mammoth website is a psychological projection and you would be exposed and therefore discredited! Got to keep up the airs!

          • GrimnerTheMad

            Who has ever said that “all women are potential rapists”? I have never seen this published. No man I have ever met has “back slapped” a rapist. Your statements defy the reality that anyone can observe for themselves.

          • Mike Hunt

            David David, at least try to sound like someone else while using this silly alias.

        • Mike Hunt

          Hi David Futrelle, how are you?

        • Flo

          For you every man’s issue is a “yawn” because you hate men more than you hate yourself 😀 … now please find a nice place at a mental institute or smth and leave us normal people alone.

          • Auntie Alias

            Oh, the irony.

    • Jean Valjean

      The banner being carried in the photo above says “Smash Patriarchy.”

      Where is your condemnation of their violent language?

      • Teflon Expat

        Cant condemn smashing something that doesn’t exist.

        • Auntie Alias

          Pretty close to the mark.

        • Jean Valjean

          Patriarchy is and has always been a codeword for, “men.”

      • Auntie Alias

        Wow. You are fully indoctrinated in the cult.

    • Dennis Markham

      “Bash a violent bitch day” was a response to a Jezebel article encouraging violence against men. Way to prove the author’s point, you show that people have more sympathy for women who initiate violence than men who fight back.

  • *redacted*

    Ahh, the squashing of differing opinions.

    • Teflon Expat

      Its an opinion war for sure. Also a PR war. The first to protest is the losing faction. ooops

  • Jake Bunch

    “Yuri Life” lol

  • Teflon Expat

    The PR score as of today:
    Feminists – 4
    MRAs – 27
    Good luck out there

    • sarahgray

      27?

      • Teflon Expat

        Yeah, you’re also probably wondering why its not much higher.

    • Auntie Alias

      AVFM is losing by a mile. I hope you eventually lose the venue for your hate conference.

      • Phil McCracken

        This protest helped boost their readership up %30. Keep it up.

        • Auntie Alias

          Good. When AVFM crashes and burns, it will be all the more spectacular.

          • crydiego

            No disrespect but men have entred the struggle for equal rights. If AVFM is distroyed it will be a loss but men are not beaten by one loss. We will learn from it and come back stronger.
            It is what makes men so threatening, we are taught from an early age to get back up! The bigger they are, the harder they fall. So stop talking like you are dealing with children; we will not go quietly!
            Feminism has picked this fight and they hoped for violence but what they are going to get is resolve and overwhelming numbers. Now or later, eguality is coming.

  • Teflon Expat

    “I also wonder what the group would have done if we all just ignored them”

    –Christine Ballinger

    Christine is wise. She knows that AVfM is happily receiving national sympathy now due to the feminist tantrum parade, petitions and rants…at the expense of the very same feminists who hate them.

    • Jonathan Taylor

      Feminists don’t tend to think more than one step ahead. They tend to live for the here and now.

      Same thing with rape, for example. They think that if they can radically broaden the definition of rape far beyond all reason that they can convict many more men.

      The only problem is that when you broaden it too far it loses its gravity, its seriousness. There is no such thing as “stare rape” or “tipsy rape” where simply being tipsy and having sex, or staring at someone, is the equivalent of rape.

      • sarahgray

        Having sex with someone unable to consent is, in fact, sexual assault. Whether one is a man or a woman.

        There is no such thing as “stare rape”. Staring at someone is rude, but not illegal.

        • Jonathan Taylor

          “There is no such thing as “stare rape”. Staring at someone is rude, but not illegal.”

          Tell that to your Feminist friends at Goshen college:

          http://www.avoiceformalestudents.com/goshen-college-declares-all-male-students-who-stare-at-women-are-rapists/

          And you can see similar statements here:

          http://www.avoiceformalestudents.com/the-language-of-misandry-in-academia-faculty-students-administrators/

          • sarahgray

            There is no law against staring at people.

          • Masta solanas

            Not yet thank god. This garbage made its way into Goshen college, and must be nipped in the bud before it gains any traction. Hence why the page hosting this drivel at Goshen can not be found; it was reported by the men’s rights community.

          • Phil McCracken

            Yet a male prisoner with mental health problems was recently beaten, tied up and had his genitals tied up until they became infected and he was allowed to rot and die from the ensuing infection and sepsis. While lying in his own excrement for days unattended. All for staring at a female prison guard from behind bars. Is this what you are fighting for?

          • Bewildered

            Have you missed the plot or are you deliberately deflecting ?
            The point is that there are self proclaimed genius SJW s who want the law against rape to include to all these inane additions and feminists have not called them out.

      • Bewildered

        Ah! you missed “Finanacial rape”, “Verbal rape”.

  • Joseph Kasak

    There were female speakers at that event. Some were even “former feminists”.

    • Teflon Expat

      Former Feminists are growing faster than feminists can recruit unsuspecting young women into the fold. MRAs only serve to pound salt into that dissent.

    • Auntie Alias

      FeMRAs are pathetic groupies looking for attention from men.

      • Masta solanas

        Auntie Alias is a FeMRA, I knew it!

        • Bewildered

          Yep! there’s a need for stealth FeMRA s.
          I find her faux hate very cute !

      • Bryant Suiskens

        Groupies? groupies are followers, whereas most FeMRA’s i can come up from the top of my head are figureheads. You think Erin Pizzey is just seeking the attention of men? you think Senator Anne Cools is just seeking the attention of men?

        • Auntie Alias

          I can’t speak to the motives of those two. It’s the Honey Badger types and the HB wannabes I’m thinking of.

  • James Phillip Schmitt

    Once upon a time, divorce courts used to hose men because it was automatically assumed that women would be helpless without a husband. Thus was born the legit Men’s Rights movement. These shitstains do everyone a disservice.

    • sarahgray

      The “men’s right’s movement” is not legit.

      Though there are men’s organizations that tackle issues men face that are not misogynistic.

      They do not refer to themselves as MRAs.

      Custody law is gender neutral now.

      • Teflon Expat

        When custody law is gender neutral, the marriage rate will increase.

        • sarahgray

          Custody law *is* gender neutral.

          • Teflon Expat

            Judges are NOT. Deal. An American woman past 35 who wants to marry has a dearth of suitors for that and other reasons.

          • sarahgray

            The law is. Deal.

            Maybe campaign to elect judges who will make sure that the primary parent gets primary custody?

            If more men acted like the parents women are expected to be, more judges would grant joint or primary custody to men.
            Because the standard is the best interest of the children. Not the mother *or* the father.

          • Teflon Expat

            Good ol alienation syndrome

          • sarahgray

            If a man wants to be a dad to his kids, unless he is abusive and that can be proven, the mother cannot legally prevent him from asserting his legal rights/court ordered access.

          • Dennis Markham

            Best interests of the child? Please. The best interests of the child is what we had before: a system that kept couples and family together by not making things so lop-sided in the home-maker’s favor. Now single parenthood has increased 6X and divorce has increased 15X.

            Christ alive, if you think breadwinners are such worthless sub-humans, show your lack of appreciation by not demanding so much of their money after divorce.

          • sarahgray

            What does the judicial system have to do with a woman in her 30’s marrying?

          • Jonathan Taylor

            Just like poll taxes were race-neutral.

          • sarahgray

            Not the same thing, at all.
            Men are just as capable as women are to be active parents.

          • Jonathan Taylor

            Capable, but not recognized as such by judges.

            Law can be neutral on its face and discriminatory in its administration.

          • sarahgray

            men who do half the childcare stand a very good chance of getting at least 50% custody.
            The vast majority of fathers do not even request primary custody.

          • gary959

            Please, talk about things you know about – definitely not this.

          • Dennis Markham

            And how the hell do you even measure that? Does a two-hour bike ride with your kids count the same as spending 30 seconds changing a diaper? From the study I read fathers spend a whopping 16 minutes less time with their kids in comparison to mothers.

            But even so, that doesn’t matter. Breadwinners are people too and shouldn’t feel like they have a gun to their head during the marriage. Our society would be nowhere without those willing to put in 60 hour weeks at the office. Stop dehumanizing them.

          • gary959

            Tell that to the judges

          • gary959

            You now sound like a total idiot – who on earth believes that?

      • *redacted*

        If the men’s rights movement isn’t legit, then so to is this womens rights movement piffle.. Tit for tat and all that rot.

      • James Phillip Schmitt

        Now, yes. Not so much when divorce was a new thing. There are still paternalistic judges who will go out of their way to screw the guy in the equation. I’m saying there once was a sane version of the garbage you see online nowadays. But of course, If you read the comments to your comment, you will see that is no longer the case.

        • sarahgray

          the comments to my comments do not reflect the reality of family law.

  • Teflon Expat

    Here is a list of hate-free topics to be discussed at the conference that feminists hate:

    Fatherhood and governance
    Domestic violence and feminism
    The crisis relationship
    Family courts
    Cultural misandry
    Misandry in media
    Men, grief and loss
    Blue collar invisible man
    The Men’s Movement
    Antifeminism
    Paternity fraud
    Men in the military
    Young men in education
    Circumcision

    So it is clear, obvious and an absolute fact that this has NOTHING to do with MRA ‘hate’ and EVERYTHING to do with the type of information that feminists hate and consider THREATENING to the years of propaganda annoyingly imposed on the American public. This feminist fuming anger boiled over solely because the list of topics will be discussed in PUBLIC at hotel and not on some fringe website. That is why feminists went all mood-swingy, grabbed their sign-making Sharpies and cardboard, childishly threatened a large corporation and exposed themselves in a publicly-humiliating “2 4 6 8” tantrum-rich feminist-pride parade.

    • sarahgray

      Yeah, there are issues facing men, but feminism isn’t causing the problems.

      Maybe stop blaming women and *do* something?

      • Teflon Expat

        Does it matter if feminism is causing the problems, partially or otherwise? Most women are not feminists so we’re safe.

        Well there you have it folks…this entire ‘protest’ is about feminists saving face. They just HATE being blamed and made to look bad. That sums it up. Done.

        • sarahgray

          Women aren’t causing your issues, either.

          One can find solutions to the problems patriarchy causes men to have without blaming women and calling for violence and sexual assault.

          • Teflon Expat

            There is no patriarchy. Get over it.

          • sarahgray

            If there was no patriarchy, the issues the MRA movement blames on women would not exist.

          • Teflon Expat

            There is no patriarchy. The American public doesn’t buy that crap either.

          • sarahgray

            If there was no patriarchy, they things y’all complain about would not exist.

          • Teflon Expat

            That is your OPINION. See the big sign was desperately put together with that big word because there is desperation to get the public to believe it

            http://motorcitymuckraker.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Men-rights-protest_5844.jpg

          • *redacted*

            Sarah has an axe to grind, perhaps she was offended by this mythic patriarchy.. Or perhaps she’s just bitchy… Oh the choices!

          • dejour

            Look, MRAs believe that there are societally enforced gender roles, and this causes men’s problems. These gender roles are enforced by men and women. Men get advantages and disadvantages. Women get advantages and disadvantages. If you want to call that patriarchy, then sure we have patriarchy.

            The MRM problem with feminism isn’t that it pushes for gender equality. Gender equality is our goal too. The issue is that, from our perspective, feminism sometimes does things to enforce patriarchy. So we are against traditionalism, and we are against some aspects of feminism. (eg. the idea that men are violent and women are not is patriarchal, but it is also reinforced by feminism as practiced)

            Here’s an academic study that shows that DV is more or less 50/50.

            http://www.menwebjournal.com/ArcherSexDifferencesMeta-AnalyticReviewf2000.pdf

            Yet mainstream feminism ignores this and only focuses on female victims and male perpetrators.

          • sarahgray

            No, that is not reinforced by feminism.

          • dejour

            So feminists build just as many shelters for battered men as battered women? Feminists spend just as much time talking about battered men as battered women? Feminists don’t dismiss academic research that suggests the problem is 50/50? Feminists disapprove of primary aggressor laws (the ones that state in the case of mutual violence the “larger” person should be arrested, even if the smaller person hit first and hardest?)

            To be clear, I think that feminists do some good things in areas where women are disadvantaged (eg. encouraging girls to go into STEM fields, encouraging women to become politicians or CEOS or entrepreneurs)

          • sarahgray

            why aren’t men raising money for men’s shelters?
            how would a smaller person hit hardest?
            Many people are violent, but feminists certainly are not against men’s shelters.
            Everyone deserves protection.

          • dejour

            I’m glad to hear you say that.

            But men do try to raise money for shelters and they fail because:

            1) governments won’t give money
            2) people aren’t aware there are problems because men’s rights groups are silenced and branded misogynists.
            3) patriarchy tells people that women are weak and men are strong, so men don’t really deserve help (they deserve scorn or ridicule)

          • sarahgray

            1) please cite a reference to a men’s organization being denied funds and prevented from fundraising for a men’s DV shelter.
            2)men’s right’s groups that aren’t misogynistic are not labled as misogynistic.
            3)that is why feminism is against patriarchy.

          • Teflon Expat

            Who determines who are what is misogynistic? Who cares anymore?

          • dejour

            1) http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/04/29/earl-silverman-dead-suicide_n_3179850.html

            2) Disagree. This study shows that when people aren’t benevolently sexist they are called misogynistic. So simply treating men and women the same means “misogyny”

            https://uwspace.uwaterloo.ca/bitstream/handle/10012/6958/Yeung_Amy.pdf;jsessionid=FB488C1B98BC7A23439F156E7F99D5C1?sequence=1

          • Teflon Expat

            Everything is misogyny. Rape too. These fools are really wearing out their own always failing message

          • Anthocerotopsida

            Did you just say that rape isn’t misogyny. Please crawl back under your rock. The world isn’t ready for you.

          • Bill Paxton

            Rape isn’t misogyny, it’s a crime committed against both genders.

          • DENIZ

            WHY DONT YOU GET YOUR HEAD OUT FROM UNDER THE ROCK YOU FEMINIST REPTILE YOU ARE THE ONE WHO WENT SNIFFING AT HIS ASS AND HE UNLOADED ON YOU USING LANGUAGE THAT IS EASY FOR FEMINISTS TO UNDERSTAND 1

          • sarahgray

            I’m certainly not asking for “benevolent sexim” as you put it, and neither are any feminists I know.

            I don’t actually have time to read a graduate thesis right now, ha. That’s still one person’s opinion.

          • dejour

            “benevolent sexism” is the academic term for treating men and women differently (but women better). MRAs generally call it “sexism against men”. So carrying groceries for women and only women, opening doors for women only or only hiring female babysitters would be benevolent sexism. I would argue that opening DV shelters for women and only women is also benevolent sexism.

          • sarahgray

            men who are being abused *do* have services available. I would advocate for all victims of violence to get the help they need, and fund services accordingly. I’d like A LOT of things to be funded properly.
            all the above things aren’t anything I need, for sure.

          • dejour

            Do they? There are a few here and there. But it seems like there are 100s of shelters for women for every one for men. And they certainly aren’t well advertised, so I’m not sure that men would even go to look. Maybe homeless shelters provide some options for men, but they obviously wouldn’t provide access to the same knowledge and support as a shelter for battered spouses.

            Lastly, under primary aggressor laws men who are abused face a real chance of being charged with a crime.

            But in any case, I’m glad you are supportive of men having access to shelters in emergency situations.

            Erin Pizzey, a speaker at the Detroit conference, will likely talk about how when she tried to extend shelters to battered men, as well as women received death threats and had her dog killed by feminists.

            http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/columnists/story.html?id=a41532d6-d4df-46a2-a784-f6499938f3b0

          • CWilson

            There you guys go again. Anything bad happens to an anti-feminist then the feminists must have done it.

            There is no evidence that Erin Pizzey’s dog was done in by feminists, just as there is no evidence that feminists sent death threats to Doubletree, but that doesn’t stop anti-feminists from stating these things as if they were facts.

            Do none of you see how unethical and dangerous to innocent people this can be?

          • DEDC

            Well, stick around. You might actually hear some evidence to that very point. Wouldn’t be surprised if Pizzey presents some at the conference. Though dog murders aren’t exactly investigated like homicides.

            As to your last point, I am assuming that you are referring to doxxing and the like. Since feminism is an a priori ideology of hate, and since there seem to be so many who want to spread that hate, why not help them? Let’s high profile them, present their entire opus out there so that there is no room to mistake or take out of context their hate, and give them credit for their ‘work’? This has a way of making the cockroaches go back into hiding, you see.

            You want to put our info out there? The whole body? Give us credit? PLEASE DO.

          • Bill Paxton

            lol, Feminists have no right to talk about intellectual honesty, “women earn 77 cents for every dollar that men earn, 1 in 3 women will be raped on college campuses, it was legal and common for men to beat their wives with sticks no thicker than their thumb in most of the UK, Danielle D’entremont was violently attacked by an MRA just for being a feminist, Elliot Rogers was an MRA, the MRM promotes violence, rape and misogyny”
            I suppose it’s just pure coincidence that every time someone says or publishes any studies that don’t comply with feminist dogma, death threats and bomb threats ensue, along with demands that the person be fired from their job sent directly to their employer, along with hate mail, accusing them of hating women.
            And I’m sure it’s also a coincidence that fire alarms were pulled multiple times during speeches on university campuses addressing men’s issues (in violation of Canadian law) and that feminists cheered and applauded in response.

          • Jean Valjean

            Show us what feminist group or activism even recognizes male victims let alone offers them equal services?

          • Mateusz82

            Prison is hardly an adequate service, nor is homelessness.

          • Anthocerotopsida

            Women make up the majority of homeless people worldwide.

          • Farce Majeure

            What’s your source for the worldwide homeless figure? Besides, worldwide figures are hardly relevant. US figures show roughly twice as many men as women are homeless. Source? Department of Housing and Urban Development: 2009 Annual Homeless Assessment Report to Congress

          • Mateusz82

            You got any proof of that?

          • DENIZ

            can you believe the feminist cowshit you are spewing and you expect people to believe that ? how daft can you get feminist

          • Jack V. Butler Jr.

            No, we don’t.

            :Let me give you the inside scoop on what it’s like being an abused man, since its clear that you know less than nothing.

            When I finally realized she was going to kill me if I didn’t get out, I called the cops. She caught me on the phone with the cops and started beating me with a baseball bat.

            By the time the police arrived, I have a broken arm, a fractured skull, and had bleeding bruises from my scalp to my ass.

            The cops put the handcuffs on me and dragged me away to jail because the local laws concerning domestic violence demanded that I, the man, go to jail since I was obviously the aggressor. I didn’t get medical attention for five hours and almost died.

            She never saw one minute in handcuffs, much less inside a jail or a courtroom.

            I tried to access the financial support that the state makes available to domestic violence victims… except I couldn’t because it wasn’t
            “domestic violence victims”, it was “battered women”. Likewise, the psychological counseling, the assistance with child-raising, and all the other resources available weren’t available to me because I wasn’t a battered WOMAN.

            Do not pretend that there is no difference between how battered men and battered women are treated.

          • Which countries are you referring to?

            There is very poor coverage in the USA, Canada, The UK, Australia, New Zealand, Europe. Having services available that meets only 1% of need … it’s disingenuous to rely on that as proof of equality and not of discrimination.

          • Bewildered

            “Check your privilege” as per received wisdom.

          • Bewildered

            SUBSTANTIVE “EQUALITY” is a noble concept.

          • Anthocerotopsida

            Tell me. PLEASE tell me that you think men should be allowed in shelters along side women and children who have been abused and raped by men, or vice versa. Please say that so that everyone here can understand just how stupid and short-sighted you are.

          • Kimski

            Why? Are you implying they’re too weak to handle it?

          • DENIZ

            what your little feminist brain fails to understand is the men who seek shelter is not the one who has raped women and children , just because some man committed a crime doesnt make all men guilty , with this you have revealed your ugly feminist bigotry .THIS FEMINIST SPECIMEN IS LIVING PROOF OF THE FEMINIST THOUGHT PROCESS OR RATHER LACK OF IT , BRANIDNG ALL MEN GUILTY CAUSE SOME MAN COMMITED A CRIME

          • dejour

            Short version of the paper? People read about a guy who showed one of these:

            1) low benevolent sexism
            2) high benevolent sexism
            3) low hostile sexism
            4) high hostile sexism

            hostile sexism means sexism against women (eg. saying women aren’t good at math)

            Ideally we want people to be low in both hostile and benevolent sexism. That’s what society should be going for, and it sounds like you agree.

            But after reading about these 4 men, people were asked how much support men would have for female professionals.

            Average scores were:

            low-BS 4.27

            hi-BS 6.04

            low-HS 7.23

            hi-HS 3.77

            Basically people who were low-BS or hi-HS were perceived as misogynists, and hi-BS and low-HS were perceived as nice. Which is a problem because low-BS is actually not sexist, and high-BS is sexist.

            Same pattern emerged when people were asked about how good a parent/husband would this man be:

            low-BS 5.26
            hi-BS 7.86
            low-HS 8.03
            hi-HS 5.87

            Men were rated highly if they had high-BS or low-HS. They were seen as a bit misogynistic in the other cases.

          • sarahgray

            what does that have to do with feminism?

          • dejour

            Nothing. It was just a refutation to your claim that “men’s right’s groups that aren’t misogynistic are not labled as misogynistic.”

            The truth is that people don’t really understand what is sexist and what is not. The way I see it, feminism is mostly about removing hostile sexism. Men’s rights is about removing benevolent sexism. Once you get rid of both then you have an equal world. But since people see men who don’t do benevolent sexism as misogynist, people will wrongly claim that MRAs are misogynist.

          • Teflon Expat

            It has no impact on anything or anyone if feminist spew out their fav word…misogyny. Let them. It makes them happy and feel better for the day. Thats about it. Meaningless.

          • Anthocerotopsida

            Why can’t MRAs ever type “feminists” correctly? For the love of crack, put an “s” at the end of the word! Have you no shame?

          • alex brown

            You are an idiot.

            Me, me, me, me, me, me!

            Who I know personally, me, me, me me.

            We are talking about systematic problems here, not your personal life.

          • Bewildered

            She has been told that the personal is political ! Can’t really blame her ,she’s a victim of Gender Studies.

          • Kimski

            A victim of cognitive oblivion, more likely.

          • that.guy
          • sarahgray

            how was he prevented from fundraising?
            I definitely support the idea of DV programs for all getting funding, but the ones that exist don’t get enough funding as it is.

          • Jean Valjean

            All men’s groups are labeled as misogynistic.

            Are feminists denied funding even when they clearly are promoting an agenda of hated?

          • Anthocerotopsida

            I guess in theory you could have a “men’s group” that isn’t misogynistic, but I don’t know of any real life examples. It always ends up all “Girls want rights and autonomy and shit?! What about our rights and autonomy? If they get some then we want more!”

          • Draigo Luther

            Tell That to Erin Pizzey. Also look Earl Silverman.

          • Mateusz82

            A Voice For Men has been called “misogynistic”, and for that matter, most, if not all, of the Men’s Human Rights Movement has been denounced as “misogynistic” (because wanting equality with women is so horrible).

            Feminism is against the patriarchy for the same reason that homophobes are against “the gay agenda”.

          • Just Look UP Earl Silverman on Google

          • crydiego

            Please google Erin Pizzey, she started the first women’s DV center and she is a speaker at the conference.

          • CWilson

            Men’s rights groups aren’t “branded” as misogynistic by feminists, they show themselves to be misogynistic by what they write and advocate.

            How else except as misogynistic can A Voice for Men’s “Bash a Violent Bitch Month” be taken?

            I’m sure many violent abusers think they are justified in their abuse. How does this kind of rhetoric help anyone?

          • dejour

            I didn’t care for that article. Too much emotion, too little reason. And too easily taken the wrong way. But they weren’t actually advocating violence either. They were parodying this Jezebel article.

            http://jezebel.com/294383/have-you-ever-beat-up-a-boyfriend-cause-uh-we-have

            The whole point was to show that society views violence against men as a joke and violence against women as abhorrent. The ultimate goal is that violence should not be committed by anyone.

          • CWilson

            How about calling women “cunts”, “bitches”, “whores” and “sluts”? I see that all the time in A Voice for Men.

            Is that satire too?

          • dejour

            No, I don’t support that language. I don’t think it’s as common as you suggest, but it happens too much. But in any case that’s an argument for changing the language, not dismissing everything that MRAs say.

            If a feminist calls men “dicks” or “assholes” is that a reason to discard feminism entirely?

          • CWilson

            That kind of language (“cunt”, “whore”, “bitch”) is extremely common in the articles in A Voice for Men, in the comments, and in the blogs of MRAs. They also like to call women “gold-digging” and “hypergamous” and “slutty”.

            There are men’s issues, and then there are MRAs. Most groups doing actual work on men’s issues don’t want to be connected with MRAs. If I were working, for example, with male victims of rape I wouldn’t want to be associated with people who belittle date rape. What did Paul Elam say about date rape?

            “But are these women asking to get raped?

            In the most severe and emphatic terms possible the answer is NO, THEY ARE NOT ASKING TO GET RAPED.

            They are freaking begging for it.

            Damn near demanding it.”

            You’re going to tell me this is satire, right?

          • Jean Valjean

            No. It’s honesty.
            Some women engage in outrageous behavior and expect everyone to respect them. Yet by behaving the way they do they disrespect everyone around them and themselves.

            Women who go to a sexually charges party, behave in a sexual way do so for attention. She has no right to sexually harass every man in sight and then expect not to be sexually objectified herself. If she behaves like a stripper why should she expect not to be treated like one?

            If she gets drunk and goes to a student’s room to have sex she shouldn’t be able to save face by destroying his life with a false accusation of rape. Feminists refuse to even admit that a significant amount of rape claims are false.

            In fact, feminists have made the political climate so dangerous that departments won’t issue statistics.

            Only the recent report by the military was courageous enough to report a 17% false accusation rate which the media completely ignored out of fear of feminist backlash.

          • DEDC

            Are you saying there is no such thing as a woman with a rape fantasy?

            What exactly is a rape fantasy? Is it where you tell someone you want them to rape you?

            There are far more female rape fantasies out there than feminists will ever admit.

            Fear of rape ≠ rape (If such a fear exists, it ought to be of interest to that person actually experiencing it, yet what do we get instead? “I am in fear of rape all the time, so ALL women should be”). Most feminists only seem to be interested in equating and extending the definition of rape as far as possible as long as it doesn’t extend to men.

          • Anthocerotopsida

            “Asshole”? Really? Asshole is completely gender-neutral. “Asshole” is my favorite substitute for “bitch”. It’s not feminists’ fault that you assume the word asshole means man.

          • Teflon Expat

            True. Plenty out marching and mumbling and humiliating themselves in Detroit on Saturday

          • Jean Valjean

            How about women/feminists who call men pricks, dicks, cocks, losers, creepers, pervs, and on and on?

            Why are women entitled to respect but then disrespect men all the time?

            Feminists dehumanize men by portraying us all as rapists but when we turn that rhetoric around at feminists then suddenly it’s mysogyny.

          • Anthocerotopsida

            Ahaha HAHAHA I’m laughing in your face and “creep shaming” you. HAHA the worst “issue” that men face is “creep shaming.” You don’t want me to call you a perv. Don’t be a fucking perv! That word has one meaning and it’s always used correctly.

          • Teflon Expat

            CreepWalks start this summer in Toronto. Followed by about a dozen or so MisogynyWalks nationwide. Very unusual and novel ideas indeed. Be proud, own the word, disarm the haters.

          • GrimnerTheMad

            Do you have anything of value to add to the discussion? You seem to be angry at the MHRA, but you seem incapable of reasoned debate. IMO.

          • Jean Valjean

            That was pretty pathetic.

            If you are going to make personal attacks it means you don’t have a valid issue to defend.

          • DENIZ

            WELL THEN BY YOUR OWN LOGIC SLUT WHORE TWAT ALSO ARE ALWAYS USED CORRECTLY BETTER BELIEVE IT ITS YOUR OWN FEMTARD LOGIC

          • Jack V. Butler Jr.

            No, you really don’t.

          • DEDC

            Tell you what. You stop EVERYONE calling even the guys who deserve it “assholes”, “creeps”, “nerd”, “geek”, “pencil neck”, “loser”, “loner”, “control-freak”, “rapist”, “perv”, “pedo”, “wife-beater”, “prick”, “dick”, “cocksucker” so on and so on, then maybe you will have some semblance of an argument there instead of the mental diarrhea it is.

          • alex brown

            If a woman is acting like a cunt, I will call her one. If man is acting like a dick I will call him one.

            Women are not extra humans who deserve to be spoken to extra nicely!

          • Jean Valjean

            How does it hurt?

            You are portraying women as weak and in need of protection.

            Do you think women who use violence against men or children should be allowed to do so?
            If a woman is violent shouldn’t a man be allowed to defend himself or his children from her violence?

            If you agree then that justifies bashing a violent bitch.

            If you don’t agree then you are promoting patriarchy and inequality.

          • Mateusz82

            Provide evidence to back up your claims. Otherwise, they are just meaningless words, the ranting of an ideologue.

          • Jack V. Butler Jr.

            Yes, that’s true. They disagree with the feminist agenda, and so they get branded as misogynistic as a result, because organized feminism has succeeded in brainwashing people into thinking that criticism of feminism = criticism of women.

          • alex brown

            Bash a violent bitch? Men have no right to hit a violent women if she attacks him.

            Do you see how entitled you are? How you dehumanize men? Men who bash violent bitches are not women haters, they are just practising their right to self defence.

            If you think women are of a higher caste and have the privilege to dish out violence then you are not worth talking to.

          • DENIZ

            FEMINISTS SOW WHAT THEY REAP IF SOME FEMINISTS THINK VIOLENT ABUSE OF MEN IS OKAY THEN ITS JUSTIFIED THAT MEN THINK RETALIATING IS OKAY AND THEY GONNA GET MORE OF IT THESE COMING DAYS WELL MAKE SURE OF THAT , YOU SLIMY MANIPULATIVE FEMINIST REPTILES ARE GOING DOWN ! THERES NO STOPPING THIS I CAN PROMISE YOU THAT !

          • DENIZ

            WHAT ABOUT FEMINISTS RIDICULING AND BRAGGING ABOUT CASTRATION VICTIMS IF THATS OKAY THEN WE SHOULD ALSO MAKE FUN OF GANG RAPE VICTIMS AND RIDICULE THEM ! IF THERE IS MISOGYNY THE FEMINISTS BIGOTS ARE THE ONE CREATING IT , SO DESTROY THE FEMINIST BIGOTS IF YOU WANT TO REALLY PREVENT MISOGYNY OTHERWISE IT WILL BE JUSTIFIED TO BE A MISOGYNYST

          • Anthocerotopsida

            Citations please. BOOM right in the face, MRAs.

          • DENIZ

            THWACK MY BOOT RIGHT IN YOUR FAT FEMINIST ASS

          • dejour

            I’ll give you an example of a smaller person hitting harder and first.

            My friend was married. At a BBQ in front of other people, his wife hit him twice in the face. He said “Don’t hit me.” She did again, and he put up an arm to block her punch. He then held her against the side of the house til she agreed to stop punching him in the head.

            There were plenty of witnesses of both sexes, and they all backed my friends story. She called the cops and he was arrested. (They interpreted him blocking a bunch as violence against her). Because he was bigger he went to jail. Ultimately the charges were dropped, but for a year he wasn’t allowed to live at his house, or see his children, or drink alcohol, or access his bank account.

            To me that is sexism. Either she should have been charged or no one.

          • sarahgray

            i would agree with you on that.
            But it’s not feminists who say women are weak and men are strong.

          • Jean Valjean

            It absolutely is feminist who portray women as weak and men strong.

            What is sexual harassment law?

            Wage gap?
            Unreasonable beauty standards.
            Women who have been drinking can’t consent but men who are drunk can.

            Almost every issue feminists have portrays women as needing special assistance that men don’t get.

            Now they want quotas in executive jobs, board of directors, Congress, and STEM degrees because women can’t do it on their own.

            There is an office for women in every branch of government because feminists convinced the government that women can’t hack it.

            Then there is women’s sports which is to men as the white only fountains were to blacks. Women can play in their own sport and if the can they can compete against men but men can never compete in women’s sports just as blacks could never drink from white fountains.. It’s separate but equal all over again.

          • Teflon Expat

            But wait…it must be the culture’s fault or some Captain Patriarchy or discrimination or internalized this or that or some intersectional male gaze colonialism or whatever women’s studies generated thing du jour to blame.

          • Anthocerotopsida

            “It absolutely is feminist who portray women as weak and men strong.” You display such a thorough understanding of feminism. Please, tell me more.

          • Jean Valjean

            We shouldn’t have to raise money. Women get millions from the government. Equality requires that facilities funded by the government not discriminate.

            You couldn’t run a shelter and deny access to black women but you can deny men because that’s not illegal.

          • Anthocerotopsida

            Women get millions from the government? Where’s mine? Did I forget to claim my vagina on my taxes this year?

          • Susie Parker

            1.

            That Was So Funny I Forgot to Laugh!
            A phrase used to mock someone when they say a joke or something they think is absolutely hilarious, but everyone else thinks it’s retarded.Sarcasm in its most extreme form.

          • DENIZ

            HUNDRED OF MILLIONS ARE SPENT ON WOMEN PROGRAMS BY THE GOVT AT THE TAXPAYER EXPENSE MOST OF THEM WHO ARE MEN , MEN PAY FOR THIS FEMINIST SHIT BUT NOT A PENNY IS SPENT TO BENEFIT MEN , HOW DARE YOU FEMINIST BASTARDS KEPP BRAYBING ON ABOUT EQUALITY AND HAVE SHELTERS ONLY FOR WOMEN?? THAT TOO PAID BY MEN .FUCK FEMINISM

          • Susie Parker

            Yes, it is. It’s also feminists who say all men are rapists. “Don’t be that guy”. Hey! Don’t be that woman!

          • Anthocerotopsida

            Susie! Oh, Susie, remember me??? Long time no see, dude. God, I’m so disappointed. I gave you such good advice the last time we chatted. I see you changed your avatar, but if you want people to believe you’re a woman, you need to change your name. No real woman puts her real full name as her screen name. For example: I’m a real woman and my name is some long, obscure, vaguely satanic botanical Latin word. You’re a male MRA pretending to be a woman and you have a woman’s first and last name as your screen name. Look around. No real woman does that. We also don’t call ourselves things like “CurvesDontLie” or “WomynsRights”, just to cover all our bases.

            Hey, who says all men are rapists? I’ve never heard a feminist say that. Are you just making shit up again?

          • Susie Parker

            Marilyn French is the particular feminist quoted.

            Don’t be that clown.

            No, I don’t remember you. Almost every particularly nasty feminist accuses me of “rully, rully” being a man, so sorry – you’re not special – but THANK YOU sincerely for the compliment.

            I guess derailing a discussion with “Yer not really a woman” is better than facing the face that not all women are like you – just another cow in the field chawing the same cud all the other cows are swallowing.

            If I were anything like you I think I’d jump off a bridge. Cats and all.

            Personally, I love the “gender traitor” gals better. Gender Traitor sounds so much more swashbuckling and whip crackingly manly!

            So so smaat! You found me out! Yes! I’m rully, rully a man!

            Now that that’s settled…shall we return to discussing the topic at hand?

          • DENIZ

            HA HA FEMINIST RUNT GOT OWNED BET SHE WET HER PANTIES AND RAN AWAY CRYING

          • DENIZ

            HEY FEMINST IDIOT WHAT IF SARAH IS REALLY A WOMAN THAT WOULD MAKE YOU LOOK STUPID WOULDNT IT OH WAIT NOTHING CAN MAKE YOU LOOK ANY MORE STUPIDER CAUSE YOU ARE A WOMANS STUDIES LEARNING BASEMENT DWELLING FEMINIST PSYCHO WHO LIKES STALKING MEN ONLINE , CAUSE NO MAN WILL LET YOU ANYWHERE NEAR THEM

          • Jack V. Butler Jr.

            It absolutely is.

            Every time feminists say that men are only aggressors and victimizers and women are only victims, they are saying that women are weak and helpless.

          • Bewildered

            It helps female pedophiles,rapists,murderers and other female scum laugh their way out of jail.
            So long as privileged bitches benefit no one gives a flying fuck !

          • DENIZ

            THAT IS 100 % TRUE , AND ITS A SERIOUS PROBLEM WITH REAL VICTIMS , THIS IS A SOCIAL TRAGEDY AS SOCIETY SEEMS TO BE TOO DUMB AND MANIPULATED BY FEMINISM TO SEE THE TRUTH AND IT WILL DEVELOP INTO A HUMAN CRISIS UNLESS MEN SPREAD THE WORD AND EDUCATE PEOPLE ABOUT THIS FEMINIST CRIME

          • Anthocerotopsida

            You couldn’t be more stupid.

          • Jack V. Butler Jr.

            Well, you certainly put me in my place, didn’t you. Wow. Some person on the internet disagreed with me, and rather than address my point calls me stupid. Whatever shall I do with myself now?

            Oh, I know what I’ll do. I’ll shake my head at the uselessness of a person who thinks “You’re stupid” is a legitimate refutation of anything.

          • Teflon Expat

            About 50 of them were shrieking that at some hotel in Detroit a few days ago.

          • Anthocerotopsida

            What ever shall you do with yourself? My guess is that you’ll respond to my one sentence comment with two paragraphs, because you care about what I think. Oops, that’s what you did.

          • Jack V. Butler Jr.

            Nah. I just like giving self-important assholes enough rope to hang themselves. And you performed perfectly.

            You avoided my points to make cheap attacks. That tells us all we need to know about you.

            Now toddle back to the kiddie table. The grown-ups want to talk.

          • Anthocerotopsida

            That was fast! Tell me, how much does the “MRM” pay you guys for trolling 23 hours a day? And do you get paid more for each account you have? Like, you’re clearly posting under at least three different names in this thread alone.

          • Jack V. Butler Jr.

            So you’re paranoid on top of being ineffectual in an actual discussion.

            Sad really.

            Perhaps you should find another hobby. You don’t seem to be doing very well with this one.

          • DENIZ

            YOU RETARD YOU THINK EVERYONE POSTS UNDER DIFFERENT NAMES LIKE YOU FEMTARDS DO GROW UP TARD !!

          • DENIZ

            DONT PAY ANY HEED SHES THE TYPICAL JUVENILE FEMINIST PUNK WHO HAS LESS BRAINS THAN YOUR HOUSE CAT !!

          • DEDC

            Bullshit. Feminists have consistently petitioned for Duluth model to inform the law. When they actually TRIED a balanced approach in several cities (Los Angeles being the most prominent I believe), the Femtards whined because too many women were going to jail.

            YOU support that. You support it by this very response! And you actually have the nerve to blame us here? What a disingenuous turd.

          • alex brown

            Yes it feminists who say that.

            Patriarchy theory says that. Men have been oppressing women systematically according to feminists. That is saying women are weak. Study your own feminist theories please.

          • Anthocerotopsida

            No, being oppressed doesn’t mean someone is weak. You couldn’t be more stupid.

          • Susie Parker

            What, by your definition, does “oppressed” mean then?

            “The most pampered poodles that have ever existed in society still find something to complain about”?

          • fidelbogen

            They don’t say that? Really?

            Then why do feminists favor “primary aggressor” laws?

            Why do feminists favor “mandatory arrest” policies?

            Why do feminists define domestic violence as a “gendered” crime, committed by “men” against “women”.

            If women are so “strong”, then that wouldn’t make any sense . . . would it?

          • Anthocerotopsida

            Oh Socrates. Such wisdom you bestow, if one only partakes in the gift of the red pill, through seemingly incoherent, meaningless querying.

          • Jack V. Butler Jr.

            Once again, you can’t refute anything that’s being said, so you’re trying (badly) to insult people.

            Its almost like you’ve got no actual point to make.

            Oh wait, that’s precisely it. You have no point and can’t actually respond to anyone’s point without making yourself look even more stupid.

          • DENIZ

            DO YOU EVEN LIVE IN THIS WORLD FEMINIST AIRHEAD

          • Jean Valjean

            For starters men are told never to hit back. That’s one way women hit harder. They are also more likely to use weapons and ambush to even the odds.

            Then there are women like Catherine Kieu Becker who poisoned her husband, tied him to a bed and then revived him long enough for him to watch her castrate him and then throw his penis in the garbage disposal.

            Women love domestic violence. Watch the Youtube video of “The Talk” when they discuss this case. They love it. Thousands and thousands of women watch that show and thought it was great and they cheered Kieu.

            Could you ever imagine Donahue making jokes like this and still having a career?

            These attitudes are made possible and encouraged by feminism.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrvDhSB7GHk

          • We do that. In fact we’ve been trying that one for over 20 years as well. People don’t care, and feminist lobbyists (paid ones, thus probably not people you know) work hard to prevent it. Thus, again, the need for a populist movement, to raise awareness and support.

          • Mateusz82

            Feminists are the ones against protecting men from violence (you have heard of VAWA, right?).

          • Jack V. Butler Jr.

            Remember that part where I talked about feminists getting in the way?

            Yeah, we started a funding frive for a men’s shelter. The local organized feminist group immediately started taking out ad time and getting on the news and protesting that we were all just a big bunch of women-haters and should be shut down.

            We needed a half million dollars. Thanks to feminism, we raised about two thousand.

            As I said before, its hard to do anything when organized feminism paints you as a villain every time you try.

          • DEDC

            Because douchebags like you force us to waste money on security and insurance so that we can exercise our rights to peaceably assemble and to free speech.

          • fidelbogen

            Who, exactly, is “men”? That is vague, very vague.

          • pontifixmax

            mra’s love to point out all the things that feminists aren’t doing for them while doing nothing but complain. .

          • Tyler Aram Vosgerchian

            “To be clear I think feminists do some good things in areas where rich white women exploit the working class”

          • dejour

            haha. Good point. My point was that these are some areas where women actually are disadvantaged relative to men. In a lot of the areas that disproportionately poor or minority women, men are actually even more disadvantaged. So from an equality standpoint, it doesn’t make much sense to limit help to women.

            eg. working class women are more likely to go to prison than upper class women but working class men are even more likely

            working class women are more likely to be murdered than upper class women but working class men are even more likely

            working class women are more likely to be die young than upper class women but working class men are even more likely

            working class women are more likely to drop out of school than upper class women but working class men are even more likely

            working class women are more likely to wind up homeless than upper class women but working class men are even more likely

          • Anthocerotopsida

            Nice try. An MRA calling feminists racist? Give me a break.

          • Jack V. Butler Jr.

            Again, an ineffectual attempt at insult rather than actually respond to the point.

            You’re, what, 4? 5?

          • DENIZ

            FEMINISM PERPETRATES EXPLOITATION OF OTHERS BY WHITE WOMEN , ITS A BIG WHITE GIRL CLUB FULL OF ENTITLED SPOILED BIGOTED RABID AND VICIOUS ANIMALS

          • DEDC

            “So feminists build just as many shelters for battered men as battered women? ”

            Feminists don’t ‘build’ anything.

          • alex brown

            Nope feminism has done no good at all. Women should not be encouraged to go into STEM fields, they are not needed there or wanted.

            If anyone female has an innate desire to go into those fields, no one is stopping them, females do not deserve extra money just for being female.

          • Anthocerotopsida

            If feminists have ever established one shelter for battered men, it would be one more than MRAs have ever established.

          • GrimnerTheMad

            Earl Silverman.
            Do you hate men and boys, or just those who advocate for them?

          • Teflon Expat

            Too late to back pedal

          • Jean Valjean

            It absolutely is. Feminism has dominated the discourse on DV for 40 years now and converted what was believed to be a mutual problem in marriage to always being unilateral violence committed by me. It is a fact that 15% of DV is unilateral violence committed by men. It is also a fact that women commit 35% of unilateral DV. The remaining violence is mutual. ie a fight. Of that violence women initiate it the majority of the time and violence that women initiate is the violence that is most likely to result in injuries for women.

            Read Linda Kelly’s excellent study on DV.

            http://www.law.fsu.edu/journals/lawreview/downloads/304/kelly.pdf

          • fidelbogen

            Feminism does everything it can to throw men under the bus and pass the profits along to women.

            Especially to *feminist* women.

          • librtee_dot_com

            Your responses in this thread have gotten weaker and weaker…

          • DENIZ

            YEAH AND WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BELIVE THAT JUST CAUSE YOU SAID SO , JUST LIKE A TYPICAL FEMINIST BIGOT WITH HER HEAD UP HER FEMINIST ASS

          • DEDC

            oligarchy ≠ patriarchy, numbnuts.

            YOU drew first blood in a full-scale nuclear gender war against men when you made this fcuked up association, and you continue to double down on it. Now you will be made to look like the fools you are. The best thing anyone can do when it looks like they might be wrong is to admit that. Feminists never have and so have 50 years of denial and embarrassment waiting for them.

          • fidelbogen

            Why do you keep talking round and round in circles? I suspect it is because you are backed into a corner now, and when you are backed into a corner that’s the only travel option you’ve got.

          • DENIZ

            CORRECTION IF THERE WAS PATRIARCY THE THINGS MENTIONED WOULDNT EXIST GET THAT FEMINIST ??

          • hdhakj

            ”all men are possible rapists and so are women”

            thats not true. not everyone has the ability to rape.

          • that.guy

            we live in a matriarchy.. that much is obvious. and the matriarchy hurts women too… it especially has feminists on its butcher block

          • sarahgray

            Is that why so few women are in government and heads of corporations?

          • Flo

            Women have the majority of the suffrage so your argument is pointless. Statistically, women vote men, mostly. You know why? Because deep inside, they don’t buy the victimization card, and they can tell what woman is there for her merit and what woman due to “positive” discrimination and by playing the victimization. By law, women have identical rights. They can be presidents and CEO’s and whatever they want. The question is why does it have to be all about women? Heads of corporations are about 0.001% of the population, but you never seem to see the men at the bottom, the homeless, the poor, the sick… those in need. You know why? Because you are selfish.

          • sarahgray

            Yeah, I don’t see AVfM talking about the prison industrial complex.
            Or proposing any real egalitarian solutions.

          • Flo

            You are wrong, we talked about it too many times to count, since 1975. Nobody listens.
            If you didn’t know , the “rape culture” idea was started by the men in prison, revolting against the fact that nobody cared about them, at all.

            Just inform yourself more.

            http://en.wikimannia.org/Rape_Culture_%28film%29

          • Jean Valjean

            That’s untrue. I doubt you actually read AVFM. In fact, I bet your only contact is selective quotes mined from the site.

            We are proposing egalitarian solutions and feminists in Detroit are doing their best to keep them from talking about those solutions.

          • that.guy

            80% of consumer spending is done by and for women…thus creating the corporations… women are a majority of the voting block… thus creating governmental genocide of men…in addition men are 80% of the homeless.. and 90% of the imprisoned… so while the matriarchy hurts women too.. it hurts men more

          • sarahgray

            How, exactly, is 80% of spending “for women”?

            There is no matriarchy.
            If there was, we’d have paid maternity leave, let alone maternity *and* paternity leave, like I advocate for.

          • that.guy

            http://she-conomy.com/report/marketing-to-women-quick-facts or http://www.trendsight.com/content/view/40/204/ in addition.. if you look at major retail spaces… the floorspace devoted to women is approx 80% vs 20% for men

          • sarahgray

            women buy things for other people to use, what’s your point?

          • Jean Valjean

            So 4 times as much retail space for women’s clothing is being purchased for someone else?

            Doesn’t matter because it’s still for women.

            Meanwhile, women also shop from and wear men’s clothing as well.

          • that.guy

            there is no more a matriarchy than there is a patriarchy,,, it is a complex system that considers the needs and wants of both men and women…my post was satire…both men and women have power in our society

          • Mark

            I’m glad you acknowledged that. I was poised to correct you. 🙂

          • that.guy

            women used to have fully paid maternity leave…it was called a husband…but since feminism…they have entered the workplace…

          • sarahgray

            all women weren’t married, and not all married women had husbands who could support them
            You don’t think men should have paternity leave?

          • Jean Valjean

            If a man is supporting his wife then paternity leave is a luxury he may not be able to afford.

            Men are willing to make that sacrifice so their women can stay home if she wants.

          • Dennis Markham

            Why the hell should anyone get paid parental leave (unless the company agrees to it and is not coerced by the force of the law)? If you spawn, your kids are your responsibility and you should be expected to make sacrifices and handle the costs yourself, not pass the bill onto society or your employer.

          • Teflon Expat

            Because StrongIndependentWomen™ demand shifting dependence from husband to government or other sucker.

          • Jean Valjean

            Why don’t you go to the mall and count the stores that are just for women. If they have merchandise for both then look how the men’s clothing is off to the side and only gets a tiny portion of the store.

            Women get over 3 times the retail floor space than men and 7 times for jewelry.

            Women own half the wealth in the US yet claim to only make 77% of what men make.

            Tell us how women can buy all that stuff, have half the wealth, but only make 77%?

          • Teflon Expat

            Maybe men are stashing their money so they can use it later to take women out as it is an irrefutable fact that women are the gatekeepers of sex

          • DEDC

            Wow, you are deluded aren’t you?

            I sense a little corporate/employer animosity transferred on to men (and rebranded as patriarchy) here. Very common in femtards: People who allow themselves to be manipulated in to stabbing their brothers in the back. And for what? An employee of the month certificate in a shitty picture frame?

            You already HAVE paid maternity LEAVE. 18 years worth/per child of it + supplemental from the state. All you have to do is leave your husband and suck your boss’ dick (in no particular order).

          • Jean Valjean

            Fewer women run for office or pursue the executive career track.

            Why are you blaming others for women’s independent and autonomous choices?

            And here is another case where feminist portray women as weak and oppressed.

            You are promoting patriarchy once again.

          • We don’t “blame them on women.” We blame them on a society, which last I looked up is made up of men and women.

          • Jack V. Butler Jr.

            I love how you blame your own misandry on “the patriarchy”. Its like you’re too stupid to realize how hypocritical you’re being.

          • Mark Samenfink

            So a society controlled by men for the benefit of men is the reason men are viewed as disposable and are afforded almost no consideration for any problem they may face? You’re seriously suggesting that a society wherein every form of media is saturated with images of dumb men and capable women, a pattern that only really emerged 30 years ago, is the result of a society that existed for hundreds of years prior to those 30 that exists to benefit men? You’re saying that a society with a federal board for violence on women with no such consideration for men when men experience more than 75% of violence is the result of a society run by men, for men? Society’s tremendous increase in single mother households, and the statistical increase in criminal behavior coming from children of single mothers, while men are thrown into debtors prisons to live in financial slavery for 18 years and all reproductive power is placed in the hands of women, this is a result of patriarchy, and is of benefit to men?

            Something doesn’t add up about that, but here’s a suggestion that does add up, feminism is a cultural form of marxism whose ideological base was developed at the frankfurt school, and “men” is too human of a word for an oppressor class so in order to paint the narrative of oppression more effectively the term “Patriarchy” is used to signify the “other” and “women” is used to refer to the “us”. This is a concept you can see repeated in every execution of marxism since it was developed as a theory of social change. It doesn’t matter if it’s a lie because the goal is to manipulate emotions, and gain for the “us”, regardless of the truth.

          • alex brown

            No such thing as cultural Marxism. It is a fictional construct. You are repeating a paranoid right wing version of the patriarchy theory.

            Female nature and hypergamy has nothing to do with Marxism. Single motherhood has nothing to do with Marxism.

          • Mark Samenfink

            Really? No such thing as a simple re-application of marxism to cultural rather than economic divides? I mean, yeah some people’s reaction to it has devolved into crap like “IT WILL BRING DOWN CAPITALISM” but that’s not what I’m talking about, I’m discussing it’s use as a practical activism strategy not about the paranoid perceived endgame of tinfoilers. The actual practice of the concepts discussed, primarily critical theory as it relates to class separated by social factors rather than economic, the application of the personal to the political, and applying socioligical analysis to all aspects of culture. At no point did I say that female nature, hypergamy, or motherhood had anything to do with marxism. What I said was first a demonstration of evidence against the idea that society is run by men for the benefit of men, followed by an explanation as to why the term that doesn’t mesh with reality is being used by modern feminism. So, yeah, totally, female nature, hypergamy, and single motherhood all existed prior to the birth of Karl Marx.

          • alex brown

            If you believe in the patriarchy, you believe in a fictional construct and are delusional.

            patriarchy theory is a hateful conspiracy theory that dehumanizes men and labels them as abusers.

          • Bewildered

            It is the most spectacular irony, then, that so long as they remain
            feminists, women will never knowingly taste freedom. Feminism is a
            victim ideology which freezes women perpetually in Struggle; it cannot
            afford to indulge in Liberation, else the game is up. To continue
            playing, feminists must imagine that they are under the control of
            external forces which are responsible for every fate that befalls them. They have a name for this mass delusion: The Patriarchy.
            Every bad decision, every unwanted consequence, every minor
            inconvenience can be traced back to this mystical, mythical and
            invisible system of control which exerts influence over women, in much
            the same way that animistic tribes explained severe weather phenomena by
            reference to angered and vengeful deities. If feminists are to
            pretend that Struggle is still relevant, then it cannot be admitted that
            women are in control of their own actions, for this would imply that
            they are free moral agents. Women must be made to believe that they are
            delicate vessels being tossed about in an ocean storm, with navigation
            and steering rendered futile, and no land in sight.
            Even when women
            are privileged beyond their wildest dreams – which is inconceivable in
            feminist theory – they still may not be considered free. Women are not
            permitted to enjoy freedom; it must be denied for the ideology to
            survive. It must be reiterated, until it comes to mind reflexively, that
            “we still live in a patriarchy,” and “women are still not yet equal,”
            and so forth. Feminism’s adherents can never rest, because they will not
            allow themselves to. They are forever chasing rainbows

            Adam Kostakis

          • Teflon Expat

            Then it is meaningless self-imposed psychological trauma? Like a mood?

          • fidelbogen

            There is no such thing as “the MRA movement”. Get over that, feminist!

          • crydiego

            Women and feminism are not the same thing. Get over yourself.

          • Dennis Markham

            You’re right. Second Wave feminism managed to change so much so fast because it milked patriarchal ideas about men and women to achieve its ends:

            “Men are predators, women are prey.”

            “Men are aggressive, women are ‘the angel in the house.'”

            “Ladies first.”

            “Women are natural caregivers.” (you’ll notice before feminism men usually got custody)

            “Men need to be accountable for women but not the other way around.”

            “Don’t hit girls.”

            “Women must be protected and provided for.”

            “Tailor you speech as not to offend women’s delicate sensibilities.”

            “Men aren’t allowed to complain, man up!”

            “Males are the acceptable recipients of violence and hostility.”

          • Matthew Lane

            Actually just the opposite: The problems men face wouldn’t exist if there WAS a patriarchy, since patriarchy would fix those problems for men.

          • Bewildered

            Indeed! Since Patriarchy is supposed to benefit men exclusively !

          • Bewildered

            She FEELS there’s a PATRIARCHY ,so she’s speaking the truth. Accept it !

          • Teflon Expat

            She feels it in order to operate her mouth

          • Bewildered

            Shhhhh! don’t give Eve Ensler ideas.
            She’s one of the numerous ‘great’ feminist minds of our times.

          • Jean Valjean

            Who called for violence? Only the feminists are calling for violence.

            And women and feminist oppose equal rights for men.

            They fight equal parental rights while blaming men for not being involved fathers.

            They hoard all domestic violence resources (99.7%) even while around 45% of reported DV victims are male.

            If a man pokes a hole in a condom to get his girl pregnant it’s rape, but if a woman does the same thing or pretends to be on the pill she gets rewarded with 20 years of child support.

            Feminists are pro rights but anti accountability. Meanwhile they work to deny men equal rights.

            You absolutely are the problem and more and more people are seeing feminism as the hate group that you are. Opposing this men’s conference proves that once again.

          • sarahgray

            Domestic violence shelters aren’t funded enough as it is, that’s the only push back.

            A woman sabotaging birth control is wrong, but would be hard to prove. A man sabotaging birth control puts the woman’s life and health at risk.

            I think that parents that have been doing an equal amount of parenting should split custody 50/50. Otherwise the primary parent should get primary custody.

            Accountability, you know.

          • alex brown

            Men end up in prison over child support. Men face the risk of rape in prison. I think that fucks a man’s health up pretty badly.

          • Dennis Markham

            “I think that parents that have been doing an equal amount of parenting should split custody 50/50. Otherwise the primary parent should get primary custody.”

            So what, the breadwinner is useless and deserves to be treated like shit in a divorce court? Why should parents get kudos for caring for the kids, but not for earning money for them? Accountability, you know? Women mock and degrade the contributions of a breadwinning husband, but then when it comes time divorce, they demand huge shares of this supposedly useless monetary contribution.

            “A woman sabotaging birth control is wrong, but would be hard to prove. A man sabotaging birth control puts the woman’s life and health at risk.


            Oh my God, gag me with a spoon. I am so sick of this manipulative, disingenuous bullshit about pregnancy. You are literally more likely to die driving to work than die giving birth in the modern day. The average surrogate mother charges under 20,000 dollars for her services. Child support is usually at least 100,000 dollars. So tricking a woman into pregnancy is NOTHING compared to tricking a man into 18 years of child support!

          • GrimnerTheMad

            So, if a person provided for their significant other and children, and thus had to work full time, this means that the state should deny that person equal time with their kids? Perhaps you should reasearch the impacts of an absent parent on children’s lives and hopes for future success.

          • “The Patriarchy” is psueodoscientific religious rubbish that is completely invalid as a construct. As described by feminist theory, it does not and never has existed, and this hate concept, no better than Nazi Eugenics theory, is one of the problems we face.

          • Mateusz82

            Women aren’t. Feminism is, and if you are hating men (hating men collectively through patriarchy isn’t any better than hating men as individuals… it’s like saying you don’t hate gays, just the gay agenda), then you are also causing the issues.

          • Jack V. Butler Jr.

            No, they’re just standing in the way when someone tries to do something about those issues.

          • OldandNavy

            I love it when they trot this patriarchy goblin doll out and shake it at the kids to make them brush their teeth

          • alex brown

            Your part of the problem. You are mentally abusing men and invalidating them.

            A voice for men does not call for sexual violence against women, to accuse that site of doing so is just an excuse to ignore men and their issues.

            You are part of a male hating culture that treats men as sub humans, you can educate yourself and try and help me, or you can carry on how you are carrying on and continue mentally abusing men.

            Falsely accusing men of being violent or abusive to woman is abuse! It is a form of mental torture.

          • Teflon Expat

            Mental self-torture of the feminists themselves. They dig their own holes. Protest on Saturday is just on instance.

          • fidelbogen

            You know perfectly well that “women” and “feminism” are not the same thing.

            But you keep trying that little trick like you think it is still going to work for you.

            Well, it doesn’t work any more. People see through it.

            Non-feminist men and women are not idiots. . . and we are the majority.

          • Dust Buster

            wow so a bunch of loonie gender confused women and socialists and union goofs march around and demand stuff all the while being some of the most INTOLERANT folks around.

          • Teflon Expat

            The protest on Saturday tied feminists back to the socialists and the unions that killed Detroit. The PR being broadcast to the nation ensures those linkages.

          • Mark Samenfink

            “blaming women and calling for violence and sexual assault.”
            [citation needed]

          • Bewildered

            It aint coming! hehehehe ! she meant it as a joke.

          • DENIZ

            a solution needs to be found for the problems feminism is causing and
            not “patriarchy” that is if it even exists !! funnily patriarchy only sems to exist in the vacant heads of feminist idiots living in cuckooland .Father groups wouldnt be struggling
            against feminazis if there was patriarchy THEREFORE IT IS FEMINISM , FEMINIST
            LIES AND BIGOTRY THAT MEN NEED TO SMASH !!

        • Most of us would agree that feminism is not the root cause of these isssues but that organized, well-funded political feminism (which the average self-identified feminist never sees, just like the average Republican voter never sees any Koch Brothers money) aggravates many of them, and that in any case feminism, despite its claims to want equality, has done a horrible, horrible job seeking equity and justice and compassion for men and boys. It would be nice if we could have a unified movement, and maybe that will happen some day, but that will require feminists to come to us; we spent 30+ years trying to coming to them only to be spat on or ignored. So… now it’s on you guys. Talk to us like human beings or keep treating us like monsters. We won’t stop either way until equal compassion and justice are available to all.

          • Anthocerotopsida

            Dean Esmay doesn’t mind feminists, unless he ever has to hear them or see them or read their words ever. As long as they keep their views entirely to themselves, never try to make any sort of social or political change that corrects any injustices against women, and stay the fuck out of his entitled, man-child way, feminists don’t really bother him.

          • Ah, no, in fact I even have friends who are feminists.

          • pontifixmax

            I can always tell a men’s rights activist by their silly amount of facial hair.

          • Yep, that’s exactly how it works! 🙂

        • Bewildered

          Most women are not feminists so we’re safe.

          This is something that scares the shit out of them. Not every woman considers her son as a ‘traitor’ to her gender.
          In fact I reckon most don’t so before long these psycho frauds will get exposed and those whine factories in the academe will mercifully be shut down and we shall have true peace between the sexes with only a few disgruntled psychos going at each other.

      • Jean Valjean

        Well, clearly if feminists oppose men getting together and discussing the problems that men face then feminism is causing problems.

        When have you ever told feminists to stop blaming men?

        • Teflon Expat

          Only if they are men who support feminist and especially socialist causes. People who meet to discuss how to make the current system work for them better rather than how to overthrow the entire system so that everyone regresses to some common mean will be opposed.

        • sarahgray

          When it’s sponsored by a misogynistic hate group, that is the problem.

          • Teflon Expat

            The problem being it peaks feminists emotions, especially extreme anger. The meeting poses no problem and that is why the American public sees you all as fools, as usual.

          • alex brown

            Stop the gaslighting, show some respect for men.

      • gary959

        Again, we’re not blaming women -LISTEN!!!

        • alex brown

          She won’t listen, she has no respect for men as human beings. She is a male hating bigot.

      • Mateusz82

        Feminism is causing the problem. Also, women =/= feminism. Seriously… it should be pretty obvious. Also, men are trying to “*do*” something, but feminists are protesting against it.

      • Jack V. Butler Jr.

        Funny thing… every time someone tries to do something about the issues facing men, a bunch of feminist protesters show up accusing the people who are trying to do something a bunch of misogynistic rape-promoters.

        Sort of hard to do anything about men’s issues when every time you do, some feminist is there publicly tarring you with the misogyny brush.

        Hypocrite much?

      • OldandNavy

        Lol. This is what *doing* something looks like. The fems can just sit back and enjoy the push back.

      • greyjedi

        Things like this conference are attempts to “*do* something.” Yet, it’s being protested and accused of promoting hate, when EVERYBODY has been invited to share and discuss and come up with solutions

      • Bewildered

        There are and there will always be issues facing BOTH men & women because Life without problems is an impossible dream. Feminism exacerbates problems for everyone by enabling entitled women to make disproportionate noises about theirs and that’s the cause for so much resentment.

      • eastsideboy

        Sarah Gray. Good to see you engaging in a real discussion with men about this conference. I tried to do discuss this on the protest page but was deleted. In any case, I don’t think most of these men are “blaming women”. Most are saying, as I was, that it’s systemic problem with society having certain sexist expectations from both men and women — breadwinner/homemaker — for example, and both men and women are trying to change society. Feminism and the male equivalent are compatible and mutually supportive, but the discussion must take place and not be stopped for fear that the two positions are mutually exclusive. They aren’t, they’re complimentary. Anyway, good to hear from you again. George Corsetti.

      • TPH

        Heh, We are doing something, we are holding a conference to discuss the issues facing boys and men. Too bad the folks who want to control the dialog are protesting instead of engaging in a productive conversation and debate.

      • Dennis Markham

        Really? Feminism isn’t causing the problems? Then where were all these problems before Second Wave Feminism? Where were the men getting screwed in family courts? Why weren’t men dying five years earlier? Why weren’t men committing suicide at 4X the rate? Where were the men being forced into outrageous child support obligations? Where were the men losing custody of their kids?
        -Feminists demanded changes to education to engineer and equal outcomes for boys and girls, and when they achieved this they kept going to bring girls further and further ahead of boys. (making education more lingually based, adopting “whole language” over “phonics”, etc.)
        -Feminists are the ones who demand Affirmative Action laws at men’s expense in the work place because of a mythical discrimination against female employees (childless women under 30 make 8% more than men)
        -Feminists authored the “Predominant Aggressor Policy” to ensure police prioritize gender, body weight, and height over who is doing the actual hitting in deciding who to arrest in a domestic violence call.
        -Feminists in India and Israel were the ones who struck down protections for male rape victims with female predators.
        -Feminists were chased Erin Prizzey out of England for trying to set up battered men’s shelters.
        -Feminists are the ones who ensured a disproportionate share of stimulus money went to male sectors that had actually GAINED jobs during the recession.
        -Feminists are the ones who decided a woman should be allowed to black mail me with the life of my unborn child because “her body, her choice.” But then demand I pay child support because “her body, my responsibility” or because they miraculously remembered the kid is half mine once it became convenient.
        -Feminists are the ones who decided I should have pay a woman for kidnapping my kids with no fault divorce and child support.
        -Feminists are the ones who took away a man’s bargaining power in the family unit, reducing him to slave, by ensuring anything he could provide would be forcibly extracted from him by the state if he left a relationship or the woman kicks him out.
        -It was feminists in Florida who struck down an attempt to ban life-long alimony.

      • fidelbogen

        You are conflating “feminism” with “women” again, feminist.

        Stop behaving childishly. You aren’t fooling anybody.

      • Matthew Lane

        “Yeah, there are issues facing men, but feminism isn’t causing the problems.”

        – VAWA

        – Duluth

        – Tender Years Doctrine

        – Hiding of CDC stats about male sexual victims

        – Constant pretence of wage inequity

        All these things have feminism at the root of them. So yes, I’d say that feminism IS causing problems.

        “Maybe stop blaming women and *do* something?”

        We don’t blame women, we blame feminism…. You seem to have confused the two. Women are a group of people identified by gender, feminism is an ideology & feminists are a group of people who subscribe to feminism, and may or may not be women.

      • hdhakj

        but its you women who support the double standards against men, And thats what this is about.

    • Guest

      One of the speeches is literally called Anti-feminism, and that’s not gonna be about hate..lol. Sure thing bro.

      • Teflon Expat

        Go and find out. Or just organize a protest march for the hell of it.

      • If feminist theory presumes to describe reality then it is a science and, like all science, subject to criticism without moral censure directed towards its critics.

        That’s the essence of scientific inquiry.

        If it’s not science, it’s a belief system. One that no one has to ascribe to and a hateful one at that.

      • Paul

        If there was a conference for progressive politics and one of the speeches was “anti-corporatism,” would you call that “hate”?

        • gary959

          Guest equates “feminism” with “women” -BIG mistake.

      • Jean Valjean

        Feminism is an ideology not a person. If you saw an “anti-terrorist” or “anti-fascism” conference would you call it hate?

        • Vladim Eisenberg

          See. The rhetoric goes “If you are antifeminist, means you’re misogynist.”

          Which makes about as much sense as going “If you are an atheist, means you hate America!”

          • Teflon Expat

            You’re a misogynist because feminists do not want to and hate to debate about what ails them. They just want a cure and want it fast and that cure can only come from men and men can’t complain about providing it and if they do they hate women.

      • dvc

        David King, one of the moderators on Avoiceformen, is pro-feminism.
        What on earth are you talking about man?

      • DEDC

        Actually it is about anti-hate, otherwise known as tough love.

      • Jack V. Butler Jr.

        “Feminism” is an ideology, not a demographic. “Woman” is a demographic, not an ideology. You are disingenuously conflating the two, a common tactic among those who don’t wish to deal with men’s issues, just silence those who are talking about them.

      • fidelbogen

        Drop the snarky irony and say what you really mean.

        You are saying that a speech called “anti-feminism” is going to be about hate.

        Very well, let’s see you make good on that, by explaining how you arrived at your conclusion.

        We await your reply.

      • alex brown

        This may shock you, but Feminism is a KKK style gender hate movement.

    • Pauline Polly Risteau

      Your misogynistic idiocy is showing teflon and what is so amusing is you are to blind to even see it . Must be really difficult to live with so much anger and hatred !!

      • Teflon Expat

        A bit too logical and factual for ya, huh?

      • Jean Valjean

        Your personal attacks reveal you don’t have a valid position to defend.

        You lose.

      • gary959

        I have anger too -at injustice and bigotry – and feminism!

  • tz1

    http://judgybitch.com/2014/06/03/why-didnt-the-hilton-report-death-threats-i-have-no-idea/

    The organizers were told by the hotel they would have to pay to have Detroit police (not just any security), and that it would cost $25k, but didn’t report those same death threats to the police department. Graft, corruption, and cronyism, but the protests are the only news.

    Personally I’m for free speech. One day you, I, or they might be the “them”.

    • sarahgray

      There is no proof whatsoever that the hotel received any threats.
      Both DPD and the FBI have confirmed that no threats have been reported.

      • Joseph Kasak

        Paying for the space does though.

        • sarahgray

          Assuming the people who own the space care to take your money, and cannot be influenced by public pressure of any kind.

          • Teflon Expat

            Ya got to them too late. Two other hotels have backup down payments and if one of them is used you will know the day the conference starts and the feminist freak out mad rush will be the most comical scene ever filmed.

          • sarahgray

            “feminist freak out mad rush”

            LOL

          • Teflon Expat

            Yeah, running in circles, bumping into cars and walls, arms all flaying around, screeching sounds. Like 30 or so stooges. Its quite a scene.

          • Teflon Expat

            Feminist pressure is NOT public pressure no matter how desperately you want it to be so

          • Jonathan Taylor

            It has become all too clear to many people that when people like you say “pressure,” you mean what you would call “harassment” if it were Feminists who were being protested.

          • sarahgray

            If a group calling themselves feminists used the same kind of violent rhetoric against men, there would be protests.

          • Jonathan Taylor

            Except that the men’s group in question never used violent rhetoric.

            And no, that in fact does not happen when Feminists & Friends use the rhetoric of violence against men. We may see this in the example of the students who paraded a banner across campus reading “CASTRATE” during the 2006 Duke lacrosse false rape case.

            See more here:

            http://www.avoiceformalestudents.com/banners-and-posters-of-misandry/

          • sarahgray
          • Teflon Expat

            Typical.

          • sarahgray

            It’s a list of quotes from the founder of AVfM

          • Jean Valjean

            “Now, am I serious about this?
            No.” –Paul Elam

            If you are going to spam links you should probably actually read them.

            The link you posted speaks specifically about self-defense.

          • alex brown

            Men are sub humans not entitled to self defence.

          • Jean Valjean

            That is the implicit message of feminists everywhere.

          • Teflon Expat

            Yes, and the past week of angry language and then a protest proves how angry they can get when men defend themselves with their brains.

          • DEDC

            Wouldn’t at all be surprised if sarahgray is another Futrelle sock.

          • Jean Valjean

            What is that? Futrelle in disguise?

          • Guest

            Or some such thing. One of his minions maybe. Thing you have to understand about his ilk and posse is that ultimately they are just elaborate trolls. Like faux news, only not as big. They feed off of strawmanning and trolling their opponents and of course good ol’ hate.

            A better comparison would be Bart Sibrel. Another failed journalist banking on a Bayesean-less 50/50 chance that he is right. Sibrel you might know as the ultimate moon-landing hoaxer known for his trolling of Buzz Aldrin (by trying to shove a Bible in his face to make him confess we never landed on the moon). No reality or facts on his side, just baseless assumptions like God™ created a baseline misogyny in the world. Like “We just couldn’t have landed on the moon!”. Futrelle’s assumption is “There just couldn’t have not been Patriarchy!”. We need to start regarding him as the quack that he is.

            I guess there is an important difference. Futrelle thinks he is making valid predictions. Is it safe to assume that there will be men in the future who become unhinged and go on shooting rampages and so forth? Sure. But I can make a similar prediction: Are there women who will murder their children in the future? Yup. Everything he does PROVES gynocentrism (in ways similar to Karen Straughan’s “Feminist Shaming Tactics” /watch?v=ymkwdf7XPKc). That is why he will ultimately fail. It is only a matter of time before people start waking up and think “why are we blaming all men for the actions of one or a few, but not blaming women for the same? (Do we want this to be the case? Or do we really want to solve problems?)”. The answer is plain: GYNOCENTRISM.

          • Bewildered

            The answer is plain: GYNOCENTRISM.

            UNABASHED,BRAZEN,INHUMAN GYNOCENTRISM

          • Teflon Expat

            Perhaps. But given the inherent differences, not in the violent angry feminazi style. Which is unfortunate since it clearly does raise tens of thousands of dollars for the group being protested against.

          • Jean Valjean

            Really? Was Valorie Solanas protested?

            Andrea Dworkin?

            Catherine Comins?

            That’s what I thought.

          • OldandNavy

            No one bats an eye when feminists use violent – even genocidal – rhetoric. But they do it.

            MSM coverage on very real feminist hate speech? A fantasy

      • Teflon Expat

        Sour grapes sore loser: welcome to your new forum

        • sarahgray

          I think you don’t understand what “sour grapes” means.

        • OldandNavy

          Indeed, you should look that one up. Aaaaaand growing every single year isn’t losing, it’s how a movement gains momentum. They go from ignoring you to laughing at you and then finally start fighting you…

      • Jonathan Taylor

        So I guess AVFM is giving the police department 25k out of sheer generosity.

        • sarahgray

          No proof they paid DPD anything.

          • Jonathan Taylor

            We’ll know when the conference comes in late June. Assuming otherwise until then is rather biased.

          • sarahgray

            DPD has confirmed there were no threats. so has the FBI.

          • Jonathan Taylor

            Lies. They said they were not notified of them, not that they never happened.

            The first contact with the police department was from the hotel asking how much extra police protection would cost. This was reported on in the media.

            And that is something to be concerned about, whether you want to admit it or not.

            Also, way to dodge the point: we’ll know if they paid DPD when the conference time comes.

            I guess when you have a belief system that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside you don’t need facts.

          • Masta solanas

            The FBI has confirmed it? Where did you get this information?

            Detroit police said they never received threats in a particular article, that doesn’t mean there were none. Here are the case numbers for the reports made to the DPD from the Doubletree: the case #’s to the Detroit Police Department are 1406060175 and 1405300248.

            Enter the Crisnet numbers here:http://www.detroitmi.gov/DepartmentsandAgencies/PoliceDepartment/PoliceRecordsandReports.aspx

          • sarahgray

            Call the local Detroit office yourself, it’s just down the street from the hotel.

        • dejour

          I’m an MRA, but is it possible that the hotel made up the threats in a bid to remove the conference?

          • Teflon Expat

            That could be and its still in Elam’s favor if they get booted because of it and very very harmful for feminism.

          • Jonathan Taylor

            Detroit is known for its cronyism. So yes, it’s possible. Many things are possible. The real question is “what is probable.”

      • DEDC

        If there is deception, it is on the part of the Hotel, not us.

        Which would make us the victim you are blaming. AGAIN.

    • CWilson

      And today women and feminists were the “them”.

      Surely you have heard that freedom of speech doesn’t mean freedom from criticism.

      AVfM has been unable to provide credible evidence that there were any death threats, much less that death threats came from feminist protesters.

      Yet they were very free with suggestions, insinuations and accusations that death threats came from feminists.

      Do you not see how this could put people in danger?

  • bebow

    Why protest when laughing is more than enough? Voice for Men? Who would ever admit being a member of that group?

    • Jonathan Taylor

      Well, they will have to protest at some point because AVFM is growing too large to ignore. Feminists and similar anti-men’s human rights folk really don’t have a choice if they want to maintain their hegemony over the discussion.

    • OldandNavy

      Me. You have no proper clue what you are talking about or you wouldn’t be speaking. It’s kind of making me laugh – is that enough?

      • bebow

        The clue I got suggests Voice for Men is a support group for males who are unable to handle their business. Detroit isn’t a good place to wave that flag.

        • OldandNavy

          We all handle our business…No more or less well than anyone else. One tip off that you are arguing from emotions and not actually debating anything is attacking the people, not the position.

          Your position, thus far, is arbitrary and stupid. I don’t know you, so I can’t comment on whether or not you are. It works like that

          • bebow

            If females keep giving you and your fellas that much trouble, you might consider simply avoiding them. Problem solved.

          • Teflon Expat

            Thankfully, 95% of females have never been to the US.

          • OldandNavy

            That, more often than not, turns out to be good advice for most situations.

            Many (more all the time) are taking it. Look up MGTOW. This phenomenon is a direct result of benefit-risk evaluation by sane men.

          • OldandNavy

            Thankfully, I don’t have very many difficulties with females first hand, but then, I’m pretty careful and control my association policies closely.

            Weeds down to a precious small circle, but gardens out the general idiocy in play these days.