8 ugly observations about conference on men’s rights in metro Detroit

The “vast majority” of college women lie about being raped. Men are violent because of their mothers. Feminists are plotting to dominate men.  

One thing was ringingly clear among attendees at the first-annual International Conference on Men’s Issues in St. Clair Shores this weekend: Women are becoming an increasing threat and something must be done to stop them.

Here are eight observations about the conference:

1. Most college rapes are “buyer’s remorse.”

Photo via @Adamserwer on Twitter.
Photo via @Adamserwer on Twitter.

The crowd broke out in laughter when one speaker suggested most alleged rapes on college campuses are fabricated.

“The vast majority of female students allegedly raped on campus are actually voicing buyer’s remorse from alcohol-fueled promiscuous behavior involving murky lines of consent on both sides,” said Barbara Kay, a columnist for Canada’s National Post. “It’s true. It’s their get-out-of-guilt-free card, you know like Monopoly.”

2. Speaker bemoans lack of “stress test” for hitting wife

Stefan Molyneaux, who has been criticized for anti-Semitic remarks in the past, accused women of perpetuating violence and then failing to take responsibility for the outcome.

“There’s no stress defense for hitting your wife,” Molyneaux told the conference attendees. Molyneaux added: “Billions of women hit children 932 times a year.”

3. Conference organizer has called for violence against women

Paul Elam
Paul Elam, conference organizer

Paul Elam, who organized the event and is the founder of A Voice for Men, regularly calls women “cunts,” “whores” and “rotten crotches.”

But he’s gone further than name-calling.

On his blog in October 2010, Elam encouraged men “to beat the living shit” out of abusive women.

“I don’t mean subdue them, or deliver an open handed pop on the face to get them to settle down. i mean literally to grab them by the hair and smack their face against the wall till the smugness of beating on someone because you know they won’t fight back drains from their nose in a few million red corpuscles. And then make them clean up the mess.”

4. Conference organizers overbilled the event

Organizers surprised attendees with last-minute announcements that the conference was being moved from the ornate Hilton DoubleTree in downtown Detroit to a modest VFW hall in St. Clair Shores.

The stated reason: The large hotel could not accommodate a growing number of attendees, who were forced to find new hotel arrangements. But by most accounts, the conference attracted about 100 people, far fewer than anticipated. The DoubleTree could accommodate up to 250 people. judgybitch

5. Conference spokeswoman suggests 13 as age of consent

Janet Bloomfield, an anti-feminist blogger and spokeswoman for the conference, has suggested in the past that the age of consent be reduced to 13 because of a “mistake of age” can get unwitting men in trouble.

“The point being that it can be incredibly difficult to know, just by looking at someone, how old they are,” Bloomfield wrote, calling some teenage girls “fame whores.” Bloomfield also called protesters of the event, “Wayne State cunts.”

6. Conspiracy theories of feminist control were rampant

Speakers often depicted women as control-hungry zealots rigging the court and political system in an effort to take control from men.

“I call it the evil empire,” said Erin Pizzey, the British founder of one of the first domestic violence shelters and an ardent anti-feminist. “We need to go after them. We cannot allow this to continue. And if we don’t stop it, I don’t see a future for marriage, for love, or for anything.”

Another speaker compared it to the struggle of African Americans: “Men are subjected to a family court system so biased that it represents the largest rollback of civil rights since Jim Crow.” Speaker Robert Franklin added: “It is now public policy to break up families.”

7. Conference attendee removed after “molesting” reporter

A Metro Times reporter wrote about an unusual encounter with a “garden-variety creep” who was attending the conference.

Screen Shot 2014-06-29 at 8.07.32 AM

An older man came up to me and immediately complimented my hairy arms (a first). He then started telling me all this crazy shit about how he was from California and he makes movies and he wants to take me to Malibu. Regardless of sexual orientation, it was pretty weird. People started filling up the seats around us and I didn’t want to make a scene, so I just politely accepted the compliment and tried to deflect. The dude kept petting my arms.

It was at this point that I realized this is the kind of creepy shit women deal with … everywhere … every day. A part of me wondered if the feminists had planted this guy to hit on rape-apologizing MRAs to teach them a lesson about “rape culture.” If that is the case: well-played. Unfortunately I think I was just dealing with a garden-variety creep.

8. Time reporter leaves the conference in tears. 

  • Harcerz

    This is not an article, it is pure hate propaganda.

    It does not deserve to be called journalism, to quote Paul Elam and stop quoting him LITERALLY before he explained his point.

    “… And then make them clean up the mess.
    Now, am I serious about this?
    No. …”

    He points out that you can defend yourself from domestic violence only if you are a woman – if you are a man you can only be agressor, never victim. The Deluth Model, based on feminist “Men Are Bad, Women Are Victims” trope not only ignores ~40% of DV victims, by not helping them when they need help it ensures that they leave the relationship or (more likely) respond in kind – which ends badly for everyone.

    We as a society should work to end domestic violence, not to defend some ideology.

    As you can see on those videos, we still have a long way ahead:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3PgH86OyEM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlFAd4YdQks

    Especially that everyone who speaks for male victims is instantly branded as a terrorist and misogynist.

  • Asger Jon Vistisen

    This is a hit piece. For instance point 2. Here’s what the argument was actually saying: In parts of the Western world women beat up children on a daily basis. It is then argued that it’s the fault of the father for letting the mother be stressed. Just as we would not accept stress as an excuse for a man hitting a woman, we shouldn’t accept stress as an excuse for women (or men) hitting children.

    Steve Neavling also leaves out that this conference was met with bomb threats, and that feminist gender student Kelly Parker collected signatures to have the conference stopped. Feminists do not wish for men’s rights, which includes an end to male genital mutilations, outrageous alimony payments and general family court injustice, conscription just to name a few.

    If the feminist movement wished for equality they would have encouraged this conference, and it would indeed have had to move to an even larger venue. Feminism as a whole is in no way advantageous to men. It’s a one way street.

  • LikkiCurry

    This article is kind of amazing actually. It’s like every single lie ever said about the conference everywhere on the Internet in one place. This is epitome of press dishonesty and pieceofshitness. How do you do that?

  • Tylor

    Wow, is all I can say to the ignorance and hypocrisy on this blog and of this COMPLETELY PR-twisted peace of rubbish article. Before any of you go on with your lives, do your OWN proper research about what was ACTUALLY said at the conference before you gossip-hype each other up any further. You can start here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bzim6hQUoC8 You should all be ashamed of yourselves. You are just being manipulated even more with this article by your little feminist empire that is now coming down really fucking hard and fast. Reality check. STOP BEING VIOLENT WOMEN!!

  • ConservativeSniper

    Umm, holy shit, why is this site’s comment section overrun by the same set of anti-woman MRA posters as AVfM and RoK??? Is this some male-supremacy, misogynist website that I stumbled onto? If so, change the name to better reflect that please.

    I would never have clicked on the link had I known the Misogynists’ Rights Activists were going to be taking their vile dumps all over womankind.

    • Chuckawobbly

      Because they encourage the group to troll wherever they can…be glad they do it though because it shows their true colours. They are nothing more than a hate group.

    • LookAtThisIdiot

      Hi, I’m a literal socialist and you and I probably have literally nothing in common at all politically but I just wanted to say it is pretty awesome to see a conservative who agrees that these MRA dudes are absolutely the worst thing ever.

  • Geoffrey

    Each and every point made at the conference, as reported by Neavling, was true and correct! I wish I had been able to attend the conference. Note that virtually all negative comments below are by women who recognize these truths.

  • TruthHurts

    Sorry but this article is the biggest load of bull. #7 some guy gets his arm patted by a dude at this event and calls it getting molested. Seriously, that’s a joke right. Your article is a complete hatchet job of bull.

  • GripeVine

    I read my 2 year old a story after reading this. My voice was shaky, felt sick and terrified that she might have to read bollocks like this in the future. Luckily I’m old enough to be beyond it all and realise that it is only cunts that believe people ask for rape – but she’s got all those years of uncertainty to go through before she realises that too. How is this crap not punishable by law…

    • Happycat

      Your absolutely right ,there classified Hate groups … the Southern Poverty Law Center, a human rights organization responsible for landmark legal victories against the KKK, Aryan nation and the like..it has over 12 of these groups, all who use the term “men’s rights” as hate groups..they mostly live online in comment sections posting disinformation. Like the ones who just replied to you..Don’t believe there hate propaganda ..and Don’t take my word on this.(or anything you read in a online comment section frankly)
      Read about the Southern Poverty Law Center online, look at there human rights history ..what they are then look at there the “men’s rights” sections.. bring a air sickness bag.

  • Ohone

    Pro feminists have created an environment and social norm.where false accusations relating to rape and violence against women are not only second nature to them – its encouraged and applauded.

    At the end of the day, when everyone knows that they have been making false accusations with out of context quotes and its no longer convenient for them and their historic mistreatment and abuse of the mens liberation movement and covering up of and mockery of abuse victims is widely known. They will turn around and cannibalize and blame men like the author here and David Futrelle.

    • Betty Eyer

      Men who really want to work on discrimination issues avoid any connection with you hateful jerks. You are not about “equality”, you are about putting men back in a position of superiority.

      • Ohone

        What’s the connection between getting male abuse victims and legal discrimination against men attention got to so with putting men in a position of superiority?

        When the world knows that feminism has been covering up female pedophilia, domestic abuse, sexual aggression and child abuse in order the demonize men, and male abuse and legal abuse victims have some equality, how is that supposed to put men in a position of superiority?

      • OldandNavy

        Nope. Most MRA’s don’t want one single right taken from anyone – anywhere. They want to see everyone getting the same rights and having all people considered and represented before the law in an equal manner.

        Their largest quibble has to do with the creative math and mental gymnastics being applied in an attempt to demonize masculinity and narrate every man as a potential – or even – likely perpetrator of every evil one could imagine within a climate of frothing fear mongering and misrepresentation.

        Jerks? Yeah, lots. I don’t see any real reason why a lot of these should feel the need to be particularly kind, especially seeing the rhetoric and injustices many have experienced.

      • Happycat

        (Repost for you betty) Your absolutely right ,there classified Hate groups … the Southern Poverty Law Center, a human rights organization responsible for landmark legal victories against the KKK, Aryan nation and the like..it has over 12 of these groups, all who use the term “men’s rights” as hate groups..they mostly live online in comment sections posting disinformation. Like the ones who just replied to you..Don’t believe there hate propaganda ..and Don’t take my word on this.(or anything you read in a online comment section frankly)

        Read about the Southern Poverty Law Center online, look at there human rights history ..what they are, then look at there the “men’s rights” sections.. bring a air sickness bag.

  • TefEx
  • human

    people who think there should be “men’s rights” sicken me. what else could you possibly want? since women are taking a stand against men the men feel scared and think they have a right to abuse women so they don’t ever get to be equal as them? that’s cute. men are so weak

    • OldandNavy

      That’s a view that’s pretty skewed away from the reality at hand – or even the actual issue at play. … but I don’t really think folks who write the way you do can think anything else so waltz the night away, Matilda.

    • Autosuggest

      Everyone’s weak sometimes. I’ts how we cope that’s the measure of our character I suspect…

  • OldandNavy

    Sorry, Sagamanus, Autosuggest is being lot more interesting than you are right now.

  • Guest

    testing again

  • Guest

    testing

    • OldandNavy

      You might have to clear cookies and reload the page if you aren’t seeing some newer stuff, especially if linking through a notifications page.

  • Sagamanus

    Brilliant article exposing these demons.

    • OldandNavy

      Eh? Pretty strong speech, there. Care to elaborate on how you arrived upon such a position or are we just sweeping through to call names?

      Mind you, actual factual stuff, please. Footage, in-movement literature, peer reviewed publications?

      These guys and gals are “demons” because…?

      • Autosuggest

        Yes, spend your time answering my list of demands for facts..which I will then ignore.

        • OldandNavy

          THAT, to reference your second latest bs sneeze, is projection. If you have any factual material which shows MRA’s as a bunch of nasty, woman hating white guys, I’ll honestly read it.

          I am an advocate for men’s rights but certainly don’t agree with every statement made by every single statement they make as a group.. …Who knows? We might find something we agree upon.

          • Betty Eyer

            All you have to do is go to any MRA site and there is a ample evidence that RAs are a bunch of nasty woman hating guys.

          • OldandNavy

            That has been my feeling about some so I don’t read or contribute in those places. The same could be said in the inverse about many women’s advocacy sites.

            Also, I would remind you to take everything you read anywhere with a grain of salt and remember that angry isn’t hate and that there are actually hateful people in every camp, and though they be loud, they need not represent everyone.

            Shall I take the fringe feminists calling for genocide of males and reduction of the survivors to caged sperm producers as indicative of all feminism?

          • Betty Eyer

            I have never seen a women’s advocacy site recommend murder, rape or beating for men. I have also never seen a site where women were calling for genocide of men or caging them as sperm slaves. The vast majority of women’s advocacy sites are fact based and helping based. I have honestly never seen a men’s site like that, although I’ve looked. I do think that child custody is often stacked against men and have known good men who tried to get their kids from crazy or drug addled wives and failed. I also know a few who succeeded. But a lot of men’s sites talk a lot about women taking men’s money and then not giving them sex. Sex and money issues seems to be really central to the whole anger and a lot of it reads like sitting at a bar with some man talking about his bad divorce. I’ve also seen sites where they took a study and either distorted it’s content and analysis or flat out lied about it.

            But, hey, if you have a site you think is not hateful and fact based, I’ll take a look.

        • OldandNavy

          Buy hurry along if you are going to. Like I said, the vogue wanes and I have other things I would like to spend my time reading.

        • OldandNavy

          Actually, I will get you started. Toss me a cogent thought, should one occur.

          One MRM issue that I do agree with is the current social narrative insisting that domestic violence is mostly a male – derived act of violence, with predominantly female victims. This narrative has been taken as granted for decades, despite being proven wrong again and again (1) (2).

          The result of this is a glut of related legislation, shelters and support networks for women with shelters for men effectively nonexistent (3).

          1. http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm
          2. http://time.com/2921491/hope-solo-women-violence/
          3. http://www.ejfi.org/Help/Help-2.htm Oh, you have to pick through to find them. A Google search for “battered men’s shelter” returns some homeless shelters anda bunch of folks asking why there aren’t any.

          • Betty Eyer

            So get off your ass and raise money and awareness for men’s shelters just as women have done to make women’s shelters. I have worked as a volunteer in women’s shelters and I can tell you that they are woefully insufficient in number, size and funding. Rural shelters serve any counties and hundreds of square miles. Urban shelters have long waiting list – so just wait for help in that house with the person who is tormenting you. All you are doing is whining about what someone else worked hard to get with little or no help from any kind of government authority until AFTER they were already up and running. No one gave us what we have now, we worked for it.

          • OldandNavy

            Very much am assumption on your part, cupcake.

            I’ll say it but once so perk up. Calling attention to an issue isn’t whining. .. it is exactly what you proposed before you swung your rudder about.

            Further, the work I do in my community (mostly rolling around and checking on the local homeless) and the money I donate to causes I feel effective will never be anything I will feel the need to sing about.

            Oh, and in my line of work, one’s ass gets used but sparingly. You really just assumed a bunch of crap and then regurgitated tired old shaming attempts based on your wholesale assumptions.

            Weak, weak opener, sprinkles.

          • Betty Eyer

            So, in other words, you’ve never done any volunteer work or organizational work to try to get the services you want, right?

            I based my point on facts, observation in the trenches and years of real hard work. I am not regurgitating anything, I’m talking about things that I have seen in person and now from recent experience. I worked 6 hours a week as a resident manager at a shelter in rural VA and I know for a fact that shelter served 5 counties and was a very long drive from one end of the service area to the other. The women’s shelters in New Orleans have about a three week waiting list and they flat out turn away anyone but those in the most dire need. When I was young and needed help myself the city I was living in had no shelter and basically used an underground railroad sort of system where families took in people in need.

            I also know of some places that take men routinely now. The shelters I’ve worked at have either had procedures or were working on them.

            I’ve worked rape crisis and women’s shelters across three decades and only once have I seen a man come for help – and he was beaten by his male live in partner. I’m not saying it does not happen, I know it does, but I know in my experience it’s not a matter of men coming in for help and not getting it. They aren’t coming in.

          • OldandNavy

            Sorry about the wall of words in advance.

            Cool. Volunteering in your community is important and I’m glad that you are. I wish everyone did. It would be easier for us and they would be much better places to live in pretty short order, as well.

            You most certainly are right in acknowledging that you can’t say domestic violence doesn’t happen to men. It happens so commonly that domestic violence really isn’t a genderred issue at all. It’s a human issue with gendered attention.

            You don’t see many men through? Of course you don’t. Many of the young men I work with look at the wording on the marquis of most shelters / assistance groups and assume they serve only women or would belittle him for walking in. There is so little attention paid to nearly half of the unilateral intimate partner violence in this country that most assume that they are the only battered man in the world. On top of that – due to traditional and current social narratives’ they feel like a “gigantic wuss” and are afraid to even raise the issue out of very realistic fears about being laughed at, called a whiner or being turned into the villain in the situation.

            Call the police? Legislation in many areas will nearly guarantee that his abuser will flip some crap at the responding officer and he’s of in cuffs. Confront her about it? One phone call and he’s homeless. Two more and he’s under a rubber stamped restraining order and his name and reputation start getting raked through the mud.

            You want to talk about in the trenches, sister? I’ve been in them for eighteen years as a mentor and leader of young men and women.

            These are real issues here. I’m sorry that you find many of their loudest proponents to be less than human.

            As for me, I’m tired of going to a court house with young airmen and watching them try to prove that they DIDN’T do what the woman who beats them said they did.

      • Betty Eyer

        Or, conversely, she can say what she wants to say and ignore you. You can demand all you want of a total stranger but she has no responsibility to you.

  • TefEx
    • Betty Eyer

      damage control? From a conference of about 100 people held in a VFW hall? Don’t flatter yourselves.

      • OldandNavy

        Eh. It was important to them. Besides, MSNBC usually makes a silly response to whatever silliness Fox is doing (and vice versa) pretty much asa matter of policy.

        I think they are just desperate to be seen as on the opposite end from each other, regardless of what they are actually talking about.

  • Sasha

    Hope I never meet a single human who attended and enjoyed this conference.

    • Stephen Jones

      Sasha, I would encourage you to exercise your critical mind and verify his facts.
      The entire conference was taped, and even a cursory overview should be enough to expose the outrageous misrepresentation of this event.

      For example, although Stefan Molyneaux spoke those words, they were not said in that order. It’s like cutting letters out of a magazine, pasting them together and then claiming the ransom note came from time magazine. This article truly is that dishonest.

      “This is a step towards not a men’s movement, not a woman’s movement, but a Gender Liberation Movement”
      Dr. Warren Farrell

      • Sasha

        I don’t really find myself on either side: not as a feminist, nor as an “anti-feminist” like many of these Men’s Rights people are. It’s just how hostile both sides are that seem to only further exacerbate the need to fight for women’s and men’s rights.

        Why my first comment states as such was due to my shock caused by the quotations in this coverage of the conference. And I don’t know what other context would making changing the legal age of consent to thirteen reasonable. I believe the extremists need to be more critical of themselves rather than others, which is why I can’t fully understand either.

        • Stephen Jones

          I actually refuse to even consider “anti-feminism”, as I am constantly stating, I know too many lovely, equality minded men and women who self identify as feminist.
          Those quote are indeed shocking, but like I said, this article is nowhere near accurate. I’m actually quite shocked at how shameless the author was in his misrepresentation of the event… especially considering he couldn’t help but know it was being taped and the truth will be there for all to see.

          As for the age of consent being lowered, I didn’t hear that, I don’t know if it was a statement that was made in earnest or not.
          In my opinion, 13 is far too young, but that is the age of consent here in Canada (I think the ages have to be within a couple of years up to 16 or 17)

        • Autosuggest

          I just you-tubed the “conference” with that Steven guy..he did say those quotes..also He actually said that 90% of our mind is formed in the first few years of infancy..who the primary caregiver mostly..a mother..so they are the reason for violence in society..since it was a mother who was the prime influence during the formative years of childhood
          I MUST BE JOKING RIGHT?..i’m freaking not…please YouTube..search for “ICMI ’14 Conference day 2” its the full tape of them speaking..He talks at the 6:49 minute mark roughly..please see how this sits in your soul.

          • Sasha

            “so they are the reason for violence in society.”

            @_@ What kind of deduction is that?

          • Autosuggest

            Did you listen to him say that at around the 6:50 mark?..can you believe that shite…

          • Sasha

            Yeah, my mouth just dropped . . . so few moments where I’m actually so stunned I just can’t comprehend what happened. lol

          • Autosuggest

            What make these haters so offensive is there taking the language of the civil rights movement.stripping out minorities and women. Then inserting themselves in it.

          • OldandNavy

            Oh, the minorities and women are still in there. You read so selectively, grasshopper.

            Either way, the interest has passed. Happy frothing.

          • Stephen Jones

            Sasha, with all due respect, if you are paying attention, you would know that he was *refuting* the often made claim that men and solely men are responsible for all violence in society… a position I think you’ll agree is equally repugnant.
            He simply applied that logic to the realities of modern society.
            But we *reject* that logic… that’s why we don’t self identify as feminists.

          • Stephen Jones

            Sasha, view it for yourself.
            Don’t take my word for it, don’t take autosuggest’s word for it.
            I am 100% confident that anyone who views that talk without letting their ideology get in the way will see the truth of the matter.

    • OldandNavy

      I wish I could have gone, myself. I had responsibilities elsewhere but would have dearly liked to ask specific questions to two of the speakers appearing.

      • Betty Eyer

        Like how to beat up women more effectively or about how to have sex with a 14 year old and get away with it?

        • OldandNavy

          That’s a pretty slimy insinuation on both counts and a very dirty assumption altogether.

          Quickly, oh oracle! Tell me how I am. I’m male and white. .. that should be all you need to go on. Go now! Assign to me all the traits your logic hamster can imagine up.

          • Betty Eyer

            It’s not an insinuation. It’s a direct quote from some of the speakers at that conference. I have also seen discussions on men’s rights sites about how statutory rape is a huge trap for men and so unfair cause those little ho’s are so seductive, etc. So, no, not making it up.

            I have no idea what you are like except from what I can see here.

  • Beth

    How disgusting. All this moronic, pathetic, cowardly men’s conference does is reinforce the need for feminism, as if we needed it. What a bunch of scumbags, especially the women involved. Makes me sick.

    • TefEx

      They are the lowest forms of life for having met and talked for a couple of days?

    • Stephen Jones

      For how many generations have women been claiming men need to learn to talk about their issues?
      And then, when we do, we’re called “the lowest form of life”
      The game is rigged!

      • Beth

        Men have had the upper hand in society and private life for thousands of years. And now that women are starting to get equality (we’re only about 40% of the way there), losers like you start to whine about how persecuted men are. Oh, poor white men, they don’t have 100% power anymore, awwww. Poor babies. Also, feminism is about removing the restrictions that gender roles place on BOTH sexes, men and women, and seeing people as individuals. Men are hurt by socially enforced gender roles too, just not as much as women. Yet the people involved with this and the comments here rage against feminism, as if talking about women’s issues is inherently anti-men. Grow up. This conference is like a bunch of white people getting together and whining about how black people keep talking about racism, which you’re probably not above doing as well.

        • Stephen Jones

          “losers like you”
          Yeah, I’m really not interested in discussing anything with you.
          Good day.

          • Autosuggest

            We don’t want your hate group noise here. Get out and stay out..you just harass women

          • Stephen Jones

            Umm, who is harassing who?
            You’ve just trolled almost every comment I’ve left here.
            Anyone can see that I’ve maintained a respectful tone with the others in this discussion.
            I’m sorry to say you cannot say the same thing.

          • OldandNavy

            We actually don’t harass anyone. Repeating an ignored grievance isn’t harassment. Calling “social warriors” out on their be isn’t, either.

            Hearing something that you don’t agree with and not being able to silence those you disagree with does not constitute harassment. I know that many perceive it as such. .. but perception and assumption do not a wrong make.

          • Autosuggest

            A cowardly lie disproving by anyone looking.

          • OldandNavy

            Hm. Interesting take. Disproving is a present tense verb, by the way. Also, your entire statement is cold air. “Anyone watching”? Watching what? Who? Where? Care to elaborate on that?

            Something intelligible as a debatable position, please. Random statements based on “because” don’t do much for me.

          • Autosuggest

            Hate groups don’t deserve debate

          • OldandNavy

            They aren’t and you saying it a thousand times more affects no reality beyond the one between your own ears.

            Excellent deflection, though. Expected so not disappointing. You just got called on some of your vague vitriol and, with no actual meat and potatoes to go with it, you just avoid showing your hand as such wroth more vague (and unprovable) bile.

            I see it a lot when kids are disagreeing and one doesn’t have any more traction in the conversation so just goes high and right with the classic “you’re wrong because you’re stupid” or “you’re mean” and, in your instance, the name calling after a peaceful movement as a hate group – like that just settled it.

            The only thing you have settled is the question in my mind as to whether or not you were a simple, ignorant bigot.

            Own it, bub.

          • Autosuggest

            Project much? *yawn

          • OldandNavy

            Nope. I can illustrate for you, if you can follow.

            When a person states an observation about you, citing the reason (and one clearly stated and drawn from your own representative text at that) for said observation it isn’t projection. You not liking that observation has no bearing on its actual state. Never will.

            You are, unsurprisingly, using the term incorrectly. It mutes any effectiveness the rejoinder was intended to carry. Allow me to help, a bit.

            Projection

            Projection is a defense mechanism that involves taking our own unacceptable qualities or feelings and ascribing them to other people. For example, if you have a strong dislike for someone, you might instead believe that he or she does not like you. 

          • Autosuggest

            Fallacy response no.13
            “why talk about your hate group’s actions when you can distract people with a deep sounding lecture about the use of words? You don’t have to be right, just try to distract and impress everyone so it looks like you know more than someone” AKA- Bullshitting that sounds advanced

          • OldandNavy

            You STILL aren’t using those correctly. Feel free to swing again. Practice.

            When sometime responds “no, and here’s why” that isn’t distraction. Your debate text book will identify that as rebuttal. Use your own brain here, tickles. It’s usable, I’m confident.

            Cut and paste isn’t generally used to make an argument but rather to support one, by the by.

            Lol. .. oh, and any “advanced” mouth feel you are getting off of any of this should be directed to your English teacher’s apparent lack of performance.

          • OldandNavy

            Either way, you couldn’t make it to the pacing grounds before midnight and I’m all out of elective time to waste.

            But in parting, you have been an entertaining waste. I would suggest you do enough research to formulate a position stronger than “screw those guys because reasons” and do hope to see you around with one.

            Would that be the case, I’d be willing to entertain you in an actual discussion rather than simply humoring you.

          • Betty Eyer

            You pretentious bag of wind. You haven’t proven squat that would hold up in any debate. You speak well and are obviously intelligent but you are intellectually dishonest and you are using insults, distraction, changing the topic rather than actual argument.

          • OldandNavy

            I like to think of it as high brow trolling, when I’m in the mood. Look at the crap. .. literal crap I’m having fun with and tell me it deserves a cited response.

            One doesn’t spend the time to actually attempt a debate with someone whose responses are the rhetorical equivalent of “yeah? Well you are a loser because flailing farts and feelz”.

            I’m surprised you didn’t latch on to that, but only just.

          • Betty Eyer

            YUP. Lots of that going on. I observe that he seems very impressed with himself. Ergo that must be true.

          • OldandNavy

            I am, some days. It usually involves finishing carpentry, though.

            I observe that you have already made many assumptions about me (and the day is not yet over) and initiated comment like a cad. Ergo… you you are probably as biased and unpleasant as you seem, however, from what I read I suspect that is only in certain company.

          • Betty Eyer

            When you put forth your observation, it isn’t a fact. It’s your interpretation of what you experienced. When people testify in court after witnessing the same event, they can tell quite different versions of the same event. Sorry, that argument fails before it even gets off the ground.

          • OldandNavy

            Not in the context stated. If I were to throw a bunch of opinions about you based solely on your gender or your race. .. you would likely observe this and say “that guy is a sexist. He is a racist.” If you did, indeed, reach that conclusion then you would be well within reason to take that observation as a fact, personally.

            Your value or lack thereof as to my observations has absolutely no effect on anything save the things going on in your own noggin.

          • Betty Eyer

            “not in the context stated” BS FLAG.

            Yes, I can make my own decisions by observing you or anyone else. But that has nothing to do with objective truth. I could be insane and hearing voices and decide you sound like a combination of my father, an imaginary devil and Glenn Beck. That does not make my observation of you fair or true.

            My context stated above was a court room. Truth there is reached by taking various evidence and testimony and weighing it and then coming to a conclusion. It’s not perfect, but it’s one of the most objective ways of finding truth. Just as the scientific community takes peer review and follow up studies, etc.to get a working idea of the truth.

          • OldandNavy

            Wave that flag! I meant the context I was using add a response to your comment about what I stated, as would have been a reasonable assumption on your part.

            Additionally, I have far too much lived and researched knowledge as to “courtroom truth finding” as far as it relates to the issues I advocate about. There is so much bias and it is so widely spread that some days I can’t believe that there’s still blindfolds on the ladies in front of the court houses.

          • Jill Drnek

            awesome. Get the f*&% out of Detroit

          • Stephen Jones

            Charming

      • Autosuggest

        This is Stephen Jones making a baiting comment..which he hopes you will try to correct. Then he doesn’t have to try to defend the MRA hate group’s own words against intelligent criticism. Watch..he’ll try it alot..since what these people said was pretty indefensible and sick at times

        • Stephen Jones

          That’s not bait.
          I am absolutely prepared to discuss these issues in a respectful and mature manner.
          I get the impression that you are not.

          • Autosuggest

            No one want to talk to you.

          • Stephen Jones

            speak for yourself

          • Betty Eyer

            respectful and mature does not define any conversation I have had with an MRA ever. I don’t expect that to change.

          • OldandNavy

            Considering that the tone you established with your very first response to me was, frankly, nasty. …I really don’t wonder why.

            I’m actually a pretty moderate person and really enjoy a good discussion. .. but mostly just end up telling people who come out of the gates like you did whatever I think will irk them.

            What else would you expect? Respect and decorum to follow your opening slight? A considerate face somehow automatically deserved by your sneering?

            Oh come on, now.

      • Betty Eyer

        You poor, poor thing, you are so oppressed.

        • OldandNavy

          This is one of the reasons you don’t see very many men conning fourth for help with their problems. You are one of those reasons.

    • OldandNavy

      The first step is to paint your victims as morally bankrupt or socially worthless. The second step is dehumanizing your victims.

      For steps three and so forth. … refer to the nazi play book.

      But I don’t have to tell you that, now do I?

  • TefEx
  • ghebert

    It doesn’t seem like you’re too familiar with things like context and satire although you may very well be and are just conveniently ignoring these to further your agenda. Time reporter left in tears? That’s about what I’do expect from an intellectual toddler who doesn’t want to live in a world where women have to be held accountable for their decisions. Especially when those decisions result in feelings of guilt and regret.

    • OldandNavy

      I’m sure the author is quite familiar with context and satire. That is why he is a very poor “journalist”. Anyone in that business since breakfast understand these concepts and how to properly quote someone in order to relay the original thought.

      This IS a hit piece. The spin and misrepresentation are on purpose. Look at the masthead…he is a muck raker Using a shovel at the keyboard.

  • Llort Bew

    Hey guys, I just found out this amazing thing man. You can actually go to AVFM’s website and read their articles, or go to Paul Elam’s YouTube channel to watch the entire conference, instead of listening to this guy’s “unbiased” reporting. Who knew, right?

    • OldandNavy

      Did.You.just.suggest that someone not be lazy and accept the Crap tailor made to fit their preexisting bias? Did you insinuate that a person should exercise critical thought and look for THEMSELVES?

      The gall, sir. The gall.

      • Llort Bew

        I know. I apologize.

    • Sagamanus

      I agree with you that Elam is a pedo.

    • Autosuggest

      Everybody knew, I did

      • OldandNavy

        Cool. I’m genuinely interested to hear where you walked away thinking it was a hate site for a hate group.

        It would be infinitely more interesting reading than the earlier wildly sprayed bile about it.

  • Llort Bew

    Would be nice if you linked to the Elam quote. And the title of the Judgy Bitch article is, “Should 13 year olds be having sex? Probably not. They shouldn’t be fame whores, either.” How is that suggesting the age of consent should be lowered?

    • Stephen Jones

      How many times did Mr. Elam announce that we are a pacifist movement, that we will not tolerate violence or the promotion of violence?

      Perhaps Mr. Neavling was drinking too much liquids and spent a lot of time in the men’s room? I’m not sure how else he could have missed that.

      • TefEx

        The feminists slipped him a fifty?

        • Llort Bew

          No way. Feminists only give empty promises.

          • TefEx

            Oh, so his place of business won’t be shouted at from the street?

        • Stephen Jones

          perhaps the promised not to put him against the wall when the feminist revolution comes?

  • G&PT

    The thing that I find most annoying is the idea that MRAs are against rights for women. Some might be, but in general most MRAs are just saying “fine, have your rights, just give us ours too”. It’s like domestic violence. Anti-MRAs portray it as men moaning they can’t hit women. Actually most of these men have no problem with not being able to hit women, it’s the fact that women can hit them they have a problem with. This article brings up a big issue about excuses for violence. As well as the stress mentioned, another big one is that the victim somehow deserved it. These excuses are used by both men and women. MRAs are just asking why it’s seen as fine for women to use these excuses but not men? I don’t think there is a real agreement on how valid the excuses are, or if there is no excuse at all, but the agreement is that it should be the same regardless of gender. Society though seems to view any excuse women use as valid, and accept no excuses from men. MRAs have a problem with this.

    • TefEx

      For some unstated reason, during the past few weeks feminists have written that they suddenly want to address these matters. Of course, that means they want to control the narrative and oddly that desire kicked in right around the 7th of June.

      • Stephen Jones

        If they wish to support our efforts, I’m willing to give them a list of our points for them to promote.
        If they wish to co-opt our efforts to their own ideology, sorry, you’re a bit too late to the show. We’ve been working on these issues for decades now, they’re going to have to either listen to those who have put in the legwork and have a greater understanding of the issues, or get out of our way.

        • Kimski

          Hmm..that might be a big mistake. Look at what happened to the sceptic society recently. Feminism has a long history of co-opting every possible movement and inserting their own agenda into it. If something like that were to happen, they’d start with bitchin’ about how the environment is toxic to get the control-ball rolling, and next thing you’ll not be able to say anything, while being forced to listen to victim-narrative 24/7.
          Kind of like in every PC society today.
          Besides, it has already been tried out in Australia, and that was the end of the MRM down there for a lot of years.
          This ideology is like a malignant cancer. Once it enters the body, you might as well start writing your last will.

    • Beth

      What the f*ck are you talking about? Women get arrested for physically abusing men all the time, you idiot. Men have had the upper hand in society and private life for thousands of years. And now that women are starting to get equality (we’re only about 40% of the way there), losers like you start to whine about how persecuted men are. Oh, poor white men, they don’t have 100% power anymore, awwww. Poor babies. Also, feminism is about removing the restrictions that gender roles place on BOTH sexes, men and women, and seeing people as individuals. Men are hurt by socially enforced gender roles too, just not as much as women.

      • G&PT

        What a charming person you sound like. You perfectly illustrate exactly the problem I was talking about. Oh and if I didn’t know better, I’d read something in to your defensive stance regarding women being arrested for abusing men. Wouldn’t happen to include you would it?

        • Beth

          If I didn’t know any better, I would read something into any man’s participation in a conference that tries to deny the legitimacy of rape claims and make it legal to have sex with children 13 or older, among other things. Very creepy.

          • Autosuggest

            Yes the “men rights” group were declared a Hate Group by the Southern Poverty Center. A world leader in fighting white supremacist groups, institutionalized racism in the south among many other landmark court cases.

        • Autosuggest

          Attack the person..not address the obvious facts she states..fail

          • OldandNavy

            She went ad hominem in the opener and pretty much erased any credibility the argument would have had while establishinga personal tone that was reciprocated.

            You don’t get to lecture someone with a cherry picked tut-tut, auto. Well you can… you have a right to say anything – it just negates your position as well.

  • Terrence S M Popp

    I was there, I saw no hate, no bigotry. many had there opinions. as a survivor of family court I can tell you that it is bias and discriminatory. There needs to be balance returned to the system and right now feminism has all the political power. They have a monopoly and threw out all of history those with a monopoly fight tooth and nail to defend it. the whole confrence is on video and can be seen on line. It is not hate to want equal treatment and access to ones own children? for all the fools out there who buy into this crap, You are so one sided you are the reason the erect fences by cliffs. you would walk off IDIOTS

  • Stephen Jones

    Just to add to my earlier comment, this article will prove to be so blatantly false that I will not be at all surprised when gender ideologues claim that Mr. Neavling is in fact an MRA plant to discredit the MRM’s opponents.

    Don’t for a moment believe that you are above being thrown under the bus, just consider how quickly they turned on Naomi Wolf, and unlike yourself, Mr. Neavling, she is not a “privileged white male”.

    • Kimski

      Well, Ole Steve-o here certainly provided a nice amount of traffic to the main site these past days. Won’t be long before we have the highest ratings of any gender related site ever. We’ve been scoring well over Jezebel and Feministing for a long time now. No such thing as bad publicity. 🙂

      • Stephen Jones

        It’s true, even bad publicity provides us with a platform to expose the truth regarding our movement.

  • Stephen Jones

    I’m astounded at how completely and shamelessly this article misrepresents the conference, and the speakers mentioned.

    No point in refuting it just yet, the conference was videotaped, and the videos are just beginning to be uploaded.
    Anyone with a critical mind will verify these claims and discover how blatantly untrue this article is.

    Mr. Neavling, I gave you the benefit of doubt on you last couple of articles on this topic; it was plausible that you were just ignorant of the facts and listening to the opinions of our opponents.
    But this clears it up. You couldn’t possibly have witnessed that conference and believe what you have printed.

    Credibility = Zero

  • Jade Davis

    Who is the creepy little man who wrote this article?

  • Celinean

    “Men are violent because of their mothers.”

    Why do you lie?

    He said that women have a part in men becoming violent, this is completely different. A 12 year old should understand the difference, why didn’t you?

    • Ohone

      They tell lies because they don’t have a counter argument.

  • OldandNavy

    A very shiny cherry picking token.

    Eh. More for us. Anyone with three brain cells chatting at the same time can go look for themselves and realize you couldn’t rest a brick on a plank that slanted.

  • David Moreno

    This article is shameful! It quote mines, and removes context form every claim it makes, then avoids citing any information.

    Claim 2 is a perfect example.
    “There’s no stress defense for hitting your wife,” Molyneaux told the
    conference attendees. Molyneaux added: “Billions of women hit children
    932 times a year.”

    Here is a video of his response to a girls question. Skip to the 9 minute mark. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtPlmw5ySR4

    Stefan Molyneux is saying that stress is no excuse to hit your kids, just as it is no excuse to hit your wife.

    It sure is easy to demonize anyone when you take them out of context, and quote partial statements. Don’t give the garbage propaganda witin this article any attention, it is not worth the space in your mind.

  • journalist- parasite

    patasite – journalist

    99% of the time

  • We have the whole conference recorded in a multicamera set up, boy will the self destructive main stream media parasites look even dumber then normal once the video gets out. I tell you now Steve Neavling, you and many in the media better start looking for another job, because I suspect if the lame stream media keeps going on with this rubbish you will have no choice in a few years, good you damn parasite.

    • TefEx

      Feminists violently threatened a hotel in Detroit that did nothing. Steve lives in Detroit. Steve does not want to upset the feminists.

      • Sagamanus

        Threatened a hotel? Lol. Sure they did.

        • TefEx

          Its in the press. Thus its fact. Nothing wrong with that. Only benefits feminists to appear all tough and defiant.

          • Autosuggest

            more lies..the backbone of your self worth TelEx

          • Stephen Jones

            It is in fact true. The police reports have been confirmed by David Futrelle… he’s one of your own.

          • Autosuggest

            Unless they made the calls themselves.Which is the kind of shit avfm does all the time

          • Stephen Jones

            Name one time AVfM has done that

          • OldandNavy

            You dint get to call things that you don’t, personally, agree with less unless they are matters of the cloth. Well, you do have a right to. It just makes you out as bit of a fool.

    • Autosuggest

      +1 for delusional optimism

      • Watch AVFM over the next few days for the videos.
        Poor Steve rushed to get some yellow journalism to print as fast as he could.
        And its about to bite him and the muckraker in the arse.
        Dan Perrins
        Canadian News Director @ AVFM and staff member for the conference.

  • butwh_y

    Let me tell y’all what it’s like, being male, middle class and white.

    • Autosuggest

      From the boys on here..I’m guessing it’s akin to a Egyptian slave on pyramid duty

      • AMRA

        No, Egyptian slaves got to keep custody of the children they raised.

        • butwh_y

          It’s a b*tch, if you don’t believe
          Listen up to my new CD

      • OldandNavy

        The modern archeological stance is that there were trade professionals building those….

        • Kimski

          Makes sense.

          • OldandNavy

            They have excavated an entire town in situ, with every evidence of dedicated and (looking at the graveyard) honored professionals. Standard classical fare, of course. Only the boss got the beef.

      • Its another sock puppet account from coven of crazy© misanthropes.

    • OldandNavy

      It’s full of responsibilities and hard work. How’s it over in the sniveling Section?

      • butwh_y

        I got sh*t runnin’ throught my brain
        It’s so intense that I can’t explain
        All alone in my white-boy pain
        Shake your booty while the band complains

        • OldandNavy

          Lol. I don’t usually indulge folks who make assumptions about me based on my race or gender…it’s..well…racist and sexist at the same time and I tend not to associate with that tripe. Buuuut….

          Got some original thought or are we more in the habit of regurgitating things you heat and thought clever?

          • butwh_y

            It’s a song by Ben Folds, I just find it hilarious that he called out this mentality all the way back in 2001.

          • OldandNavy

            I got the reference, hence the response that obviously passed right over your porous little head. Read it again.

            Are you dense, as well as racist and sexist?

            Still waiting for…eh..never mind. I don’t think you have any.

          • butwh_y

            There is really no point arguing with your kind, anyone who genuinely believes straight white men are oppressed in our society deserves nothing but mockery. Seriously dude get a grip, straight, white men are clearly the most overrepresented group in western society and anyone who argues that has their head buried deep up their ass.

            I’m so glad MRA’s are finally getting what they deserve – mass mockery from all sides of the media (except Fox of course!). I doubt there would have even been any coverage of this event at all if it hadn’t been for Elliot Rogers being incorrectly labelled as a mens rights activist. Please do not kid yourself, you are part of a very small minority, a VERY tiny insignificant minority and everybody is laughing.

            Bye now.

          • OldandNavy

            The only futile argument here is any argument you make after identifying that you automatically discount any issue or adversity any group experiences based solely on their inclusion in that group you have assigned them to.

            Discounting the experienced injustices done to men based on their sex automatically sets you argument as a sexist crap. Same goes with hand waving because they are white (or anything really) or because they are gainfully employed or because they live in Kansas or because they are one religion or another.

            You can’t really argue to begin with because you are offering argument based on personal bias in those areas and no critically thinking individual is going to lend them any value whatsoever.

            Stow the racism, sexist slant, demographic bias and double think and then come back to the table.

          • Autosuggest

            Stock internet argument no.27
            -use shaming language, then denounce people for using shaming language .

          • OldandNavy

            You have soundly mistaken calling bs where it lies for shaming language. (Got that material asked for, by the by?)

            Butwh_y framed the statement flatly denying a group has the ability to be discriminated against or targeted for injustice using racial, gendered parameters in support of the statement. Sorry, bub. My observation was to the point.

            Any shame experienced is a matter generated off my grid.

            Take another tack. .. you will, indeed find your wind yet.

          • OldandNavy

            Running up the bs flag on a statement insisting that a groups issues do not or exist or matter using racial, gendered qualification as supporting language is, indeed racist and sexist.

            You still aren’t using any of these definitions right. Try again, cheeks.

      • Terrence S M Popp

        take a trip in divorce court with young children and you will change your turn “FOOLISH MORTAL”

        • Nor

          It’s called a prenup.

    • Stephen Jones

      @ butwh You don’t get to deny my lived experiences

  • journalist- parasite

    patasite – journalist

    99% of the time

  • I am the public can make up their own mind when the DVD is released, we don’t need so called journals telling us what to believe.

  • TefEx

    What will the feminists do now? Well, here it is:

    They will collect all evidence of ‘doxxing’ from AVfM and file a class action suit. Doing so though will have a wide range of unpredictable outcomes. Thus, they are hesitant. But what else can they do?

    • Lea Tapp

      We can keep pointing out how malodorous, repugnant and dishonest a bunch of harassing, threatening, rape and abuse advocating misogynists you are and how little effort you put into even pretending to do any service for men and boys in need.
      That seems to be working out just fine.

      • TefEx

        Then keep on.

      • Then we can watch what happens when the IRS investigation into you and your friends and family unfolds princess. What is good for the goose and all that.

        • Sagamanus

          What? Lol. Are you crazy?

          • Actually, in the spirit of equality, we can get the IRS to audit everyone on this blog, equal rights is equal responsibly, agree?

          • Sagamanus

            Yes you go ahead and do that. See how it works out.

          • Don’t blame me! Lea Tapp started the IRS thing, as an MHRA I just improved on her great idea by ensuring that we all have equal opportunity to participate.

            See, feminists, manginers and MHRA’s can work together for equality.

          • Sagamanus

            Elam is part of an organization, Lea Tapp is not.

          • Well lets just let the IRS do their job.

            Now if you don’t mind, I have some e-mails to the IRS to write.

            Bye.

          • I never upvote myself.

          • +1000000000000

          • OldandNavy

            I do. Especially if I think I’m betting particularly clever.

      • OldandNavy

        You, ah…could watch video of those folks. If you understand English it should be pretty apparent that none of them are threatening anyone. Advocating for violence – sexual or otherwise – will get you the boot in that community. As for lies, no, everything I have read or heard was based on personal experience or cited material.

        I suggest you do some article reading. There’s usually a pretty good references list along with them.

        As for someone expressing am opinion, those aren’t really lies, either. They really feel that way. When I hear a hateful person say “ban men” or “kill all men” or “men are pigs” I never think they are lying, just really unpleasant people.

      • TefEx
  • AMRA

    1: Highlights false rape accusations, check. 26% of rape allegations are false based on DNA evidence, around half are false and are retracted when women are confronted with lie detectors, and this is when they go to the police, the university rumour mill probably has a much higher percentage so yeah I would say most.

    2: Highlights the double standards about women abusing children, check.

    3: Demands men have the right to defend themselves fully when they are victims of being abused, check.

    4: Slagging off of the conference from someone who could not arrange a decent web article, check.

    5: Women lying about how old they are, check, calling cunts cunts, check.

    6: Highlighting injustice in family courts, check.

    7:People lying about sexual assault and “arm rape” check.

    FFS this one is so laughable, some dude patted someone on the arm and now this guy is writing crap about being molested. I am not sure what is sadder, him writing it or it being quoted on this AHEM “article” / Hatchet job of an attack piece.

    8: Girl gets upset, white knight mangina leaps to the rescue, check.

    • Lea Tapp

      No, not 26%, 2%.
      The rest of your claims are just as dishonest.
      All your conference highlighted was your hate.

      • AMRA

        Read this you idiot.

        According to a 1996 Department of Justice report, “in about 25% of the sexual assault cases referred to the FBI, … the primary suspect has been excluded by forensic DNA testing. It should be noted that rape involves a forcible and non-consensual act, and a DNA match alone does not prove that rape occurred. So the 25% figure substantially underestimates the true extent of false allegations.

        http://www.mediaradar.org/research_on_false_rape_allegations.php

        • Autosuggest

          A 2014 super-scientific study reveled that in order for men to blame rape on the victims .they had to start saying some convoluted nonsense..and also “waaaa”

          • AMRA

            Another super scientific study found that most people with feminist leanings are in love with mummy and will always hop on the woman’s side because that’s what mummy says. Its called gynocentricisim and even in the face of DNA evidence that proves they are a massive nancy for believing what they believe they wont overcome maternal brainwashing and grow a brain.

          • Autosuggest

            you sound like you resent your mom.

          • AMRA

            No, unlike you though, I don’t want to spoon her. Seriously, you ever consider that your pussy appeasing attitude probably springs from your inability to detach from your mummy. Do you still get breastfed?

          • Autosuggest

            Do you feel you have a good relationship with your mom?..do you talk often..once a week?

          • AMRA

            More than that, but I talk to yours more. 😉 Have you managed to use the big boy seat yet, she told me the crap keeps coming out your mouth instead, which I can believe. 😛

          • Kimski

            That’s actually one of the best objective explanations I’ve ever heard for pussy beggars. Kudos.

          • “super-scientific” that’s a term we use in the STEM field.

            Grade 8 science was the best 6 years of a feminists life.

        • Don’t argue with idiots because they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. —Greg King

          😉

    • Autosuggest

      9: the earth is flat

      10 Feminism caused the Iraq war

      • AMRA

        No, the flat earth theory has been disproven almost as much as the wage gap myth.

        Feminists played no part in the war to liberate Iraq from an oppressive Muslim dictator. They focus on the west, not actual oppressive countries.

        • Autosuggest

          Go back to sleep, your wife the pillow awaits..

          • AMRA

            Sorry, my pillow wouldn’t marry me because I demanded it sign a prenup, your the only one who is the legal property to a piece of bedding. 😛

          • Pillownup.

        • Sagamanus

          Who installed that dictator and supported him all those years? Name the country he was an assassin for in Cairo in the sixties as a young man? Who relieved him of prosecution for terrorist incidents in 84? Please continue.

          • AMRA

            The Vagina States of America?

          • Sagamanus

            I thought you said Iraq was not liberated by women? Now you say women as a whole did those things to originally put him in power instead?

          • AMRA

            I wouldn’t go that far, just corrupt politicians in a pussy whipped country.

          • Sagamanus

            And what would a non pussy whipped country look like? But be even war-mongering than now. You are nuts.

          • AMRA

            Sadly, the only one I can think of is Antartica, although that’s more of a continent. Gynocentricisim is worldwide.

          • Sagamanus

            Sure it is. Patriarchy doesn’t exist but matriarchy does? You guys are so stuck in a small temporal bubble and so selfish that you think that women control the universe and it’s always been like that. And you actually claim what men have done to women has been for their protection all along. I can’t even take that seriously.

          • AMRA

            SO you leaping to a woman’s defence is what, the signs of an oppressive patriarchy. Ever hear of Chivalry, that oppressive tool of evil men. Your an idiot if you think men centuries ago were any less likely to leap to a woman’s defence.

            Oppressive ancient society, men fight, die, do all the hard labour, promise to provide for wife and kids until death.
            Kind of like today but without dishwashers and divorce courts

          • Sagamanus

            They did it in context of the system and it wasn’t for any benefit but their own. Stop confusing protection with ownership rights. Women had none.

          • AMRA

            Sure, because getting a woman pregnant and leaving her raise kids alone would obviously require more commitment and work. Your an idiot. The only people who had rights 2 centuries ago were rich land owners you twat. Back then just like now, society was raised by women with just as many brainwashed manginas as today.

          • Sagamanus

            “Your ” an idiot? Lol.

            Mangina white knight is all you morons can say. Whatever rights you had less than the rich was still more than her who was nothing but baggage. Spare me the talk that you are somehow not in awe of people in power and that you wish for equality.

          • AMRA

            I would actually be happy with being able to get married and have kids without having a 40% chance of having my kids ripped from me, Also having my tax money spent on healthcare for me and not someone who got cancer funding because they had breasts. (Ps, there is more money sent on breast cancer research than prostate and lung cancer combined) Also I can call you a brainwashed mummys boy. 😛

          • Sagamanus

            You think that research was not preceded by activism to get it? You are a certified mutant if you believe they didn’t work long and hard for it and it was instead just handed to them because of kindness.

          • AMRA

            So what your saying is that feminist activism has caused government’s to give more money to breast cancer research than lung cancer and prostate cancer combined, despite the fact that there are 3 times the deaths from the last 2. Yep, that’s exactly what I am saying as well.

          • Sagamanus

            Capitalist govt’s don’t listen to activists until they batter down the gates. If you think research is so important for you – you do the same.

          • AMRA

            What, do cancer research myself? Sure, give me a couple of billion. Government’s give money to whatever causes will get them votes.If female votes cost the lives of millions of men once they leave office, they will do it.

          • Sagamanus

            I think you incorrectly parse statements to make them your own.

          • and then some!

          • All govt’s actually.

  • TefEx

    Feminists will never publicly protest another AVfM event. check
    Feminists are extremely angry over the MRM. check
    Feminists are infighting over what to do next about the MRM. check
    Feminists are slipping more into the fringe per the American public
    Feminists feel that cannot advance their ’cause’ if the MRM grows
    Feminists…

    • Feminist = parasite

      Parasite = feminist

      • Sagamanus

        You must be referring to your movement again.

        • Facepalm

          Durr hurr hurr I know you are but what am I?

          Pathetic.

          • Sagamanus

            Shut up. MRA trash.

  • TefEx

    Ah, the MRM. The biggest deepest most painful and permanent thorn ever stuck in the feminist rectum.

    • Lea Tapp

      You would go for imagery of a a feminist being force-ably and painfully penetrated as an analogy for your so called “human rights movement”.
      Way to show how not misogynist and creepy you are! Good work, Gomer!

      • You should go find a better shrink honey.

        • Sagamanus

          You would have a pic of an attack helicopter as your avatar. What a wacko.

          • I could use an ICBM.

          • Guest

            Maybe I could use this?

          • Sagamanus

            Don’t stick it too deep.

        • Autosuggest

          Go back to sleep john

  • Tallwheel

    It’s really disheartening to see that Stefan Molyneaux quote out of context, because what he was actually saying there was a brilliant point – that we often try to make excuses for women who abuse children, and it shouldn’t be allowed. The man is strictly anti-violence, and always has been.

    • Long Shanks

      Disheartening is the correct word for it. That was pure malice on the part of the writer. But they have the platforms, they have the microphones. How do you overcome that?

    • Autosuggest

      “The man is strictly anti-violence, and always has been.”…huh?

      • Tallwheel

        Stefan Molyneux has always made that very clear on his youtube channel.

        • Kimski

          He doesn’t even know who Molyneux is.
          Trust me on this.

          • Tallwheel

            Well, then he can look into it for himself, or he’s just going to have to take my word for it, rather than answering with “…huh?”

  • Zimba Zumba

    Your ‘report’ is completely at odds with every other report I have read, including those from the mainstream media. I suggest you take a careful look at yourself before you do the same to others.

  • Burn Ender

    Yawn.

    Back and forth, back and forth. The logical and rational argues against the illogical and irrational.

    When society does eventually collapse because too many men opted out, I’m going to laugh. Hope women in the future start learning how to work in 105F heat, learn how to build buildings, learn how to drill for oil, learn to accept female disposibility in wars and on the job.

    Soon these type of articles will become

    “The 8 things we loved about men that are gone.”

    Men are leaving the western world in droves. Men are opting out and going their own way. I love it, schadenfreude, can’t wait.

    • TefEx

      Less than 10% of the world is the Western world. Thus more than 90% of women are

      Just. Fine.

      • Thus more than 90% of women are

        Just. Fine.

        Thus we don’t need feminism.

  • TefEx

    9. MRAs are wimps who let feminist threats of violence run them out of town and then made excuses like the original hotel wasn’t big enough.

  • Joy

    The biggest thing we women online have to worry about now that the pity party is over with is the continual doxxing and harassment of women online and offline by AVFM. The PR person for AVFM, who calls women whores during the con, stated that there will be more harassment of women through doxxing. We had 2 days where women weren’t in harms way b/c these dudes were occupied.

    Somehow, some way, the doxxing and harassment of individual women who are targeted by AVFM needs to stop.

    • Kimski

      Actually, I think the constant victimhood-narrative you’re exposing 24/7 is far more destructive, because people like you just thrive on adding to women’s fears, without rhyme, reason, or substantiated facts. It’s probably based on some really horrible experience in your personal life, but none the less, it only adds to already existing problems. I don’t recall having seen you offer any solutions, ever, although I’ve followed your rants for months now. It’s always this constant droning on and on and on with you, Joy:

      “Be afraid! Be afraid! Be afraid!”

      Because:

      “I’m afraid! I’m afraid! I’m afraid!”

      Why don’t you try working on your people skills and stop making an enemy out of everyone? I’m just guessing here, but that might actually benefit you by changing your view on the world.

      • TefEx

        Claims of Fear and its close cousin, Accusations of Hate, are emotionally-charged propaganda tools. They can be effective unless over used.

    • Whothehell Cares

      And what about the doxxing and harrassment of ordinary individuals by feminists.? They have turned doxxing and harrassment into an art form.

      • Autosuggest

        No your just a liar..or a gullible fool

        • Kimski

          Excellent counter!! Obviously a substantial amount of careful thinking went into that reply. Hope you didn’t blow a fuse in the process.

    • Ohone

      Problem here – its documented that feminists have been harassing various groups, including support groups for the victims of female paedophiles – but there is is no evidence of doxing and harassment by the mens movements.

      Unless you count writing a story about a criminal doxing.

    • TefEx
  • Lana

    I’m kind of floored by the other comments here. Can you really not understand why some people would be sickened by rape jokes and “oh, it’s just buyer’s remorse” comments that only involve women? If it was just satire and you’ve all got such good senses of humor, maybe we should tell some jokes about men and boys being raped, I’m sure you’d all find them hilarious. And maybe that ten y/o boy reporting that he was raped by his priest is just trying to get a good man in trouble, right? Rape and sexual violence are issues that affect more than just women and girls, so maybe you should be working to help *all* victims and prevent *all* sexual violence. Why didn’t you discuss issues of consent in your conference? Or victims’ services? Or maybe the fact that I sincerely doubt that every man in attendance would be ok with other middle-aged conference attendees having sex with *their* 13 y/o daughters, so why is it totes cool to laugh at the idea of *someone else’s* daughter being talked or coerced into sex with an older man?

    And the line “out of context?” It’s violent and graphic and horrifying. The fact that he was bright enough to set up (maybe pay?) a woman to precede that with a “justification” for child abuse in no way negates the words that actually came out of his mouth. If a woman stood up on a public platform, claiming to speak for all women and talked about how she thinks she has every right to beat her husband into an unrecognizable pulp “and then *make* that bastard take out the trash,” I’d be horrified. Abuse IN ANY CONTEXT is not ok, and implying that the only reason child abuse is unacceptable is not because of harm to the child but because “well, I can’t get away with beating my wife no matter how much I want to, so you shouldn’t be able to either,” is completely insane.

    If you really don’t see the problems with this, then I guess, congratulations? You’ve won! You’ll never have to treat women with any respect or consideration or lack of violence that you don’t feel like condescending to offer her. Unless, of course, you work with women, or for women or are married or have daughters….then maybe you should revisit the ideas behind this post?

    • Kimski

      “If it was just satire and you’ve all got such good senses of humor,
      maybe we should tell some jokes about men and boys being raped, I’m sure
      you’d all find them hilarious.”

      Want me to provide you with links , as in plural form, to the abundance of feminist websites that excel in exactly that?
      It won’t take me a minute, and I’ll be more than happy to do it.

      • Shaenon K. Garrity

        Yes. Show us these countless feminist websites where people make fun of rape victims.

        For the record, “satire” means “the opposite of what I believe, stated in an exaggerated way to make it clear how absurd it is.” It doesn’t mean “thing I actually believe, but stated in a ‘funny’ voice so I can backpedal and claim I was joking if someone points out what a douchebag I am.”

        What I’m saying is, if Elam and these other speakers were being satirical, then they were trying to argue that rape and violence against women are serious problems our society needs to do more to stop. Is that what they were saying?

        • TefEx

          More importantly

          “Yes, the conference was THAT good, and another is planned.”

          –Paul Elam

        • Ohone

          “Yes. Show us these countless feminist websites where people make fun of rape victims.”

          “What about teh menz (that are raped) LOL!!”.

          You can also go to the toy soldiers sited to she his documented experiences of being bullied and accused of being a liar (a feminist sexually abused him seriously as a child) by David Futrelle and commentators there.

          • Lea Tapp

            No, “What about teh menz” is not implying that no one should care about male victims.
            It is mocking the fact that men will derail any conversation about abuses toward women to insist that men be discussed instead. It is feminists who build, fund and run DV shelters that provide safe housing and other resources to both men and women.
            Seriously, if you had to tell the truth to save your own life, I don’t think you could manage it.

          • bawoman

            Derailing…isnt this is what the author of this article is doing? After all, plenty of things were being talked about in that conference, important things, yet no one is talking about those things. The author seems to have not heard the numerous times women were praised and supported in the conference, how it was exalted that we cannot have gender wars and both genders need to care and take care of each other.
            The author is loosing credibility by cherry picking comments and placing them out of context.You are losing credibility by lapping it up like a kitten.

          • Lea Tapp

            Hoe the fuck would he be derailing his own article?

            You really are sharp as billiard ball.

            Writing an article in one’s own space is not derailing. It is not entering into a discussion to change the subject.

            I don’t give a damn about my “credibility” with hate mongering assholes like you. You’ll lie, twist and flail to try to make this hate movement look like anything but the sick joke it is. I didn’t ask for your opinion.
            …and being called a salivating little pet is rich coming from you. Have fun simpering for your validation with men who pat your head for agreeing that bad ‘ol women are “begging” to be raped and then are just lying about it anyway, the evil “wh*res” and “c*nts”. I’m sure you are such a special snowflake that they don’t mean you. You get widdle head pats for hating women almost as much as they do. Surely they’d never tell you that you deserve to be raped and beaten and that men should get to decide whether or not you choose to complete a pregnancy. Oh no! You’re their pal.

            … so long as you don’t step out of line. Ask Whooly or how that turns out.

          • muckraker_steve

            “We cannot have gender wars?” Then stop calling women names. Stop instigating. The vitriol does nothing to invite positive dialogue. You have to know that.

          • Kimski

            Funny you should mention that, Steve. Here we have Lea below, who does nothing but spew ad homs and false accusations at everyone, and you still chose to address the reply above.
            Biased much, or simply just not interested in what your readers have to say?

          • AMRA

            Sorry Steve, you were expecting positive dialogue from this hatchet piece of an article where 1/4 of its content is a guy who claims his arm got sexually molested and a picture of an emotionally fragile girl who got upset with the truth.

          • Zhou_Mak

            Yeah, not like #killallmen, or #ListeningToMenFace, or that protester singing “Cry me a River” about male suicide (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvByTdMXlPM), stop being so mean to the feminists, they just want to help.

            They don’t spit out any vitriol at all! They just want to help!

            By the way, if anyone didn’t know, what I just finished typing out was satire.

          • David Moreno

            Why did you partially quote Stefan Molyneux in your 2nd observation and imply that he meant the opposite to what he said in his response? You are LYING to people by quote mining, and it is disgusting.

            for those who are curious about what im talking about, check this video out at 9 minutes.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtPlmw5ySR4

          • Mike Hunt

            How about your stop lying first, then we can talk about the rest?

            You miserable little worm.

          • Ohone

            The mens liberation movement has the same right to to be critical of women as the women’s movement had of men.

            Feminists are living in the olde world. There is no special way to treat or speak about women that doesn’t also apply to men and visa versa.

          • whatever

            After your series on this conference literally raping all you learned in J School, you are in no position to tell other people to tone down the vitriol Steve.

          • LikkiCurry

            LoL. You are hillarious, you know that? “Names”? Is that what is taking women down? Stop being fucking offensive to both women and men.

          • Ohone

            Right – when anyone talked to feminists about their complete erasure of male rape victims, and female rapists they said is was derailing from the “real issue/victims” – then they would sneer “what about teh menz (that are raped) LOL!!” in some male rape victims face.

          • Lea Tapp

            Lies, lies and more lies. That reall is all you douchebro’s can do.

            Feminists do not erase male victims, they serve them. DV centers provide shelter and resources for men and boys too. They are run, funded and supported mostly by feminists.
            Yes, when you go to a feminist space and derail separate discussion while making false accusations, you get told to fuck off. But I doubt your claim that male rape victims do that or that they would be laughed at for saying, “I was raped too. Where can I get help?”

            It is feminists who deconstruct the assumptions that men cannot be victims, always want sex, and that being victimized somehow removes their masculinity.

            I’ve never seen actual victims who have sought help from feminists who overwhelmingly run rape crisis hotlines and DV shelters make claims like the ones you are making, but people like you appropriating their suffering to use as a cudgel to beat feminism with in unrelated comment threads.

            I know men and boys who have been victims of rape. I have sons, brothers, friends and a husband whom I would definitely want supported and taken seriously should they be raped. Then again, I want that for everyone. It’s basic human compassion. No, I never once laughed a man or boy for being raped. If you can show me these feminists mocking men who have been raped to their face, point me at them. I’d like to tell them what heinous assholes they are too.
            Meanwhile:
            Male rape victims had their faces laughed in AT THE CONFERENCE MRAS JUST HELD.
            “Ho ho! A guy was worried his son would be raped in jail! Ha ha!” Let’s all laugh! <—That's your movement for male victims. That's how much they really care.
            How funny do you think that joke was to any actual male victims of rape that might have been in the room or listening at home?
            How supported do you think they might have felt?
            You didn't think of that did you? Of course not. you don't buy into your own pretense of caring about their feelings.

          • AMRA

            SO YET AGAIN FEMINISTS PLAY THE RAPE CARD.

          • TefEx

            There are other cards. The Misogyny Card, The DV Card

          • Ohone

            Projection.

            Feminists cover up female to male abuse, and sneer “what about teh menz LOL!” when its brought up.

            http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/V74-gender-symmetry-with-gramham-Kevan-Method%208-.pdf

          • Lana

            Holy crap, they actually said that, while supposedly “supporting” male victims? Are you kidding??!!!

          • Kimski

            Don’t be so gullible, Lana. Just because Lea is a woman doesn’t necessarily mean she can be trusted. In this case she can’t..

          • Lana

            Except that she’s not the only person I’m hearing this from right now.

          • Kimski

            Look at whose overwhelmingly providing links to their statements as evidence, and actually read them. Basic learning is founded on that principle, and it makes it easier to tell the difference.

          • Lana

            Unfortunately, anyone can cherrypick sources and just because someone posted it on the internet doesn’t mean that it’s true.

          • Kimski

            Oh, well, I tried..
            Not really my responsibility to begin with.

          • bawoman

            “Feminists do not erase male victims, they serve them”

            Lol.

          • Gregg Braddoch

            “Feminists do not erase male victims, they serve them.”

            Then why is it that feminists like to state over and over again that “women are more likely to be raped than men” while ignoring the statistics of men who are raped in prison, sexual abuse perpetrated by women against boys, etc?

            If they really were trying to help ALL victims of abuse, it might be a good idea to stop painting it as something that can only happen to women. Just sayin.

          • Autosuggest

            ten percent of rape victims are male. But you know what that leaves? 90 percent who are female..
            You guys: “WHY ISN’T THE ENTIRE CONVERSATION REVOLVING AROUND THE LESS THAN 1% OF MALE VICTIMS” ” I’m being oppressed”
            99% of rapists are men,99%.. including the rapists of men, hence why feminists focus on tackling the rape culture that trains men to treat sex as a power struggle, and to seek dominance through sexual violence.
            You need to recognize that it is not okay to constantly focus on how men are victimized by the system that actively oppresses women. If you want to stop suffering from sexism, you need to first recognize that the sexism you suffer from is misogyny.

          • Zhou_Mak

            Oh! Oh! Mr Autosuggest! Is this where I point out that since rape is defined as penetration, that the more than 40% of female rapists disappear on account of not committing “rape” but sexual assault?

            Is this when I link the CDC statistics on “made to penetrate” found here: (Stats and Discussion, on account of I’m pretty sure just the numbers would confuse you) http://siryouarebeingmocked.tumblr.com/post/41787262227/plhanson-siryouarebeingmocked-cdc-national ?

            Is this where I point out that in nearly every case in the media (Excepting a Streetcar Named Desire) the rape is treated as so terrible a crime that punishing the perpetrator is tantamount and becomes the central focus of what happens while the victim is sent to recovery? Or that in real life people accused of this crime are beaten, often to death, and usually violently so?

            Or would it be rude to call you out on your hatred and ignorance?

          • Lana

            ” Or that in real life people accused of this crime are beaten, often to death, and usually violently so?”

            Not a single victim of rape, sexual assault or DV I have ever dealt with has EVER had/caused a beat-down of a man who was “accused.” Instead, most of them are emotionally and psychologically beaten into giving up their cases by a criminal justice system that places their attackers’ rights above their own and will usually question every (or nearly every) aspect of their personal lives. Many women and men I have met over the years have withdrawn their complaints or retracted their stories or never reported their attacks in the first place because of the horrible way we treat victims. There is NO equivalent of that treatment for men who are accused of being rapists.

          • Zhou_Mak

            And I guess here’s where I point out that your anecdotes are meaningless and emotionally driven, being used in an attempt to rebut without actually having to say anything of substance.

            Here’s five articles from around the world that say you’re wrong.

            Detroit:
            http://www.okcfox.com/story/23138508/residents-beat-man-accused-of-raping-girl-write-rapist-on-mans-apartment-building

            U.K.:
            http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9788265/Teenager-falsely-accused-of-rape-beaten-to-death-by-gang.html

            Jamacia:
            http://jamaica-star.com/thestar/20120627/news/news3.html

            Guatamala:
            http://www.laht.com/article.asp?CategoryId=23558&ArticleId=436542

            Mexico:
            http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2012/11/accused-of-rape-man-executed-and-hanged.html

            But hey, I can’t fault you for the, “Never saw it happen, so it mustn’t exist argument.” I guess you also don’t believe in Anartica too?

            And yeah, those cops sure are shitbags for asking questions and getting all the facts out of a victim before trying to put someone in prison, too, huh? I mean, how dare they actually try to ascertain whether or not a crime happened before making an accusation (which again, may result in being beaten savagely or to death, loss of job, loss of reputation, put in prison, etc.)

            Oh, and the victim’s identity is completely protected during all this? And no previous sexual proclivities can be brought up, like if perhaps this is her kink? Or maybe other issues, like those presented in this article: http://reason.com/archives/2002/02/01/excluded-evidence

            Hey, here’s a thought. Instead of relying on personal (or vindictive) emotional appeals, try to prove your case with evidence or statistics, it might result in that most dastardly of argumentative statuses, being correct.

            Give it a shot, you entitled, self-serving, ignorant twit. You might learn something.

          • Lana

            Let’s discuss anecdotal evidence, shall we? You’ve presented occasions of violence occurred in five cases (four of which were carried out in places where there is little to no reliable police presence to enforce laws and the fifth of which the rape victim’s complaint was dismissed by police for unknown reasons that could be anything from “she admitted she made it up” to “sexist cops thought she was a lying slut so they ignored her”). Because it happened these five times it’s true every time? What was that about Antarctica?

            The fact remains that on the whole, we treat victims of sexual assault and domestic violence abysmally. Oftentimes, it’s not about the cops “asking questions and getting all the facts out of a victim,” its about a male police officer sitting alone in a tiny room with a recent victim of sexual assault while he says things like “look, even if *I* were to believe you, there’s no guarantee that anyone else will, and the DA doesn’t like to take cases that he doesn’t think he can win. You’re saying that you don’t have any bruises because you were too afraid to fight back, but people are going to think that it’s because this was consensual. So why don’t we backtrack a minute and you tell me exactly what you were wearing again . . .” Sometimes it’s about cops threatening victims trying to make reports with lie detector tests (which we all know are notoriously inaccurate, especially if the person is emotionally distraught) and with arrest for filing a false report if the cops don’t find “enough” evidence to corroborate their “story.”

            The victim’s identity is protected from the *media* not from her attacker, the courts, police, medical staff, etc. Because her identity is not protected from her attacker, there have been attacks to silence victims before trial, like this one in NYC:

            http://nypost.com/2010/05/12/coward-stole-her-life-our-dreams/

            And for some statistics? How about these, from the National Institute of Justice, on the prevalence of rape and attempted rape in men and women and the relative lack of reporting.

            http://www.nij.gov/topics/crime/rape-sexual-violence/Pages/victims-perpetrators.aspx

            http://www.nij.gov/topics/crime/rape-sexual-violence/pages/rape-notification.aspx

            Have you learned anything yet?

          • Kimski

            You’ve just listed the consequences of FALSE rape accusations. I sincerely hope you’re able to recognize this fact, in light of the profession you uphold.

          • Ohone

            10% of rape victims are male?

            Only when you erase and hide all female rapists and their victims, erase all male child sex abuse (1 in 6) and prison rape from from the statistics feminist style.

            When you actually count those rapes men because the majority of rape victims.

          • David Moreno

            ” It is feminists who build, fund and run DV shelters that provide safe housing and other resources to both men and women.”

            the majority of Feminists have attacked the act of sheltering men who are victims of domestic violence. This includes threatening the families of those who operate said shelters.

            Equality is needed here, not polarizing ideologies.

          • Sagamanus

            Threatened the families eh? Lol. Right.

          • Zhou_Mak

            Her name is Erin Pizzey. Her name is Erin Pizzey. Her name is Erin Pizzey. Look it up.

          • Sagamanus

            Pulling out your token idiot every time you need her huh?

          • Kimski

            Pulling out your token ad homs every time you can’t address the issue huh?

          • Sagamanus

            Ahh Kimski is here. Every time I need to hear the voice of a robot I can depend on you.

          • Kimski

            -And every time I need another radical bigot and man-hater in my life, there you come.

          • Sagamanus

            I am a man. And is that machine-code I hear?

          • Kimski

            What’s wrong kid? Don’t have the stamina of a grown up man to keep up?
            If you are indeed a man, you’ve exposed some of the most radical self-loathing I’ve ever witnessed: Did your mother abuse you that bad as a child, that you’ve completely given up on selfrespect in favour of submission?
            Oh, yeah, and that’s the broken cogs inside your head you can hear. You might want to do something about that.

          • Sagamanus

            Lol. You’re funny. Beep. Beep. Beep! Yeah you sound like a pre-scripted machine on the verge of going Elliot Roger anyday now. I have no self-loathing at all, it’s you I hate. You prefer your masters to look like you is the real problem. As long as they are that you’re ok with submission. After all you’ve been doing it for thousands of years. Beep, beep, beep! My mother didn’t abuse anyone, but she was abused by a drunken husband. Come on you can identify with that. I mean you drink a lot right? Beep, beep, beep!

          • Kimski

            “My mother didn’t abuse anyone, but she was abused by a drunken husband.”

            Thank you for providing that little piece of info. Makes it much easier to scetch a profile on you, and obviously you’re judging roughly 3,5 Billion individulas on what happened to you, personally. That fully explains the immensity of your hatred for yourself as a gender. Let it never be claimed from this day that you’re in any way rational about this, or even capable of letting go of the bad things that happened and just move on.
            I wish you the best of luck on the designated path in life you’re more than sure to travel with that attitude, and may you live in interesting times.

          • Sagamanus

            Lol. All you do is judge women. As if you Elliot’s are even capable of logic or rationality. Most of you are snappers ready to take everyone with you. The world awaits the next men’s rights wacko.

          • Kimski

            So you’re delusional on top of that? -Okaay..
            I’m a 51 y/o business man with my own house by the seaside, and a beautiful GF going on a decade now. I’m presently looking into buying my own island in the Pacific for a nice little sum of $125,000 on which I’m planning on spending my old age, far away from the likes of you.

            WTF would I risk losing all that by “snapping”, as you call it, to take anyone with me to where I don’t plan on going myself????

            While you take the time to think about a snarky reply to that one, I’m going to bed. I don’t have the time to wait.

          • Sagamanus

            ROFL. Yeah tell me about your super car too I am dieing to hear about it. Please tell me more about yourself I can’t wait especially since I inquired right?

          • Kimski

            I don’t need a car were I live, but I got a boat. How’s that grab ya?

          • Sagamanus

            You can go Natalie Wood on it. Or wait that’s what you do to women. Sorry!

          • OldandNavy

            $125k? Sounds like a good deal, to me. There’s about a million personal-sized islands around here…just already owned, sadly.

            Given the area, about a cool mil each, were one to come up on the block.

          • Kimski

            Take a look at this, then. You might be able to find something you’d like, just like I did:

            http://www.privateislandsonline.com/

          • OldandNavy

            Looks nice, man, but by the time I retire twice, get the kids through college, finish the mortgage and bounce a grand baby or two on my knee there won’t be enough left of be to go anywhere but an oven and a pretty jar.

          • OldandNavy

            How much to get summer privileges to the dock?

          • Kimski

            If you’re still around when the time comes, we’ll talk it over. I can probably use another Navy guy. 😉

          • OldandNavy

            Meh. Crazies abound. One in every barrel, these days. As for judging women..it’s push back. Pill pushers getting prescribed their own junk.

          • Sagamanus

            Push back for what?

          • OldandNavy

            You….what? You didn’t get the whole idea that judging women might be push back for all that judging of men that so many of us are sick of?

            Ok. Baby steps. Lots of men are sick of the established narrative judging men to be probable rapists, molesters, thugs and on ad nauseam. Is it so curious to see them flipping women’s wrongs up in the air?

          • Sagamanus

            Yeah poor you. Women have never been judged and it all started with them and their evil judging. Lol. Next time why don’t you observe a little closer with the men you’re with, on all their judging then get back to me.

          • OldandNavy

            Non Squier. Try again, bubbles.

            You can’t make assumptions about unstated, imagined thoughts of the other in a discussion. You are projecting your knee jerk reactions onto my side of the discussion.

            Never did I state that women have never been judged – this is a projected assumption.

            Secondly, you seem to understand very little (fitting, as you have zero reference of the actual real life men around me, only your assumptions to go on) of my level of observation of those around me – women and men. You are projecting assumptions again.

            Thirdly, the is no feeling of “poor me” or poor anyone on this end. You are projecting an assumption yet again… again. I recognize injustices where I see them and I’m gong to name them, regardless of your our anyone’s disdain.

            Hit some Google on debate and discussion basics, add something beyond knee jerk, ad hominem, bias, troll and cognitive dissonance to your skill set.

            It will do you wonders, you can be sure.

          • Sagamanus

            What the F are you talking about? Ever wade through your own side’s nonsense? And shut the hell up about all that. You think constantly throwing out a set of pre-written accusations are going to stick? What a machine! You can’t possibly think anyone believes you’re human do you?

          • OldandNavy

            Nope. Same track, different lyrics. You don’t have the tools to do the job, cupcake. You seem to be getting a little upset…. you aren’t one of those children who associates having their (pathetically) weak non-argument properly identified as some king harassment, are you? Lots do, comically.

            Speaking of nonsense, “my side” is mostly kind enough to cite the information they are basing their position on, giving me the ability to go look for myself.

            If having a mind with its critical thinking abilities intact, a firm speaking position and (important these days) a good grasp of my language complete with the ability to use it properly makes you knee jerk to another sophomoric ad hominem…. then yes, let’s pretend I’m a machine.

            You seem to enjoy pretending. You are pretending that we are actually arguing when I am actually just having a bit of fun at a weak wit’s expense. Rage on, bubbles.

            Oh, and what anyone BELIEVES about me is ground liver to my mind. I got over that shortly after puberty. You will too, when and if proper adulthood sets in.

          • Sagamanus

            Lol. You’re funny, but not as funny as you are stupid.

          • OldandNavy

            Same weak. I ASKED you nicely to step up to something substantive. I suspect you have already Run out of anything useful and are now just stuck on a loop of canned mediocrity.

            The vogue is passing, bub, and I have other things to do. Feel free, please to follow me. I would love for you to show up over at AVFM and show everyone what a nit wit with icing all over his face thinks is clever.

            I comment regularly on the main page and we would all, I’m sure, enjoy a good chuckle – you seem just the fellow to give us one.

            You can comment with the account you are using here so come along. While you are there, you can have a good look around and see what a group of people bringing forth their social grievances in a healthy, nonviolent way looks like.

            Seriously, you aught to.

          • Sagamanus

            Do you want to writer another wall of text? I have commented at AVFM with all those other assholes there. Strange didn’t notice you. I guess you were too busy jerking off.

          • OldandNavy

            Wall? Heh. Complete thoughts. Sorry about your attention span. You will pardon me, but about the above, only a fool would take what you seem to have seen or not seen as an indication of much, if anything.

            An old friend (a career cowpoke) gave me some sound advice some time ago… “If you are going to try to take a dump on something, don’t squat on your spurs.”

            You claim something is hateful with a hateful bearing. You claim something is untrue without any observable “truth”, yourself. You discredit any coherent view you may express in the future with limp passes at insult and vaguely shaken, salty language (if you even understood that last one).

          • Sagamanus

            I thought you had better things to do and now you’re back? Lol.

          • Sagamanus

            Oh I have no doubt you guys love to sketch profiles on people. It makes it easier to stalk them later.

          • Kimski

            Not too quick, are you? 😉
            Comes with the ideology,
            Trust me on this.

          • Sagamanus

            Yeah it does come with the ideology. Just like a gun comes with yours either for a crowd of people or yourself.

          • Kimski
          • Sagamanus

            Beep, beep, beep!

          • OldandNavy

            I’d you really want to know who your master is, identify who or what you cannot easily criticize publicly…that’s them.

          • Sagamanus

            So you’re saying Elam’s dick is your preferred choice?

          • OldandNavy

            Saw your others, to that effect. Not particularly effective trolling but an earnest attempt, anyway.

            You see, someone had to give at least one grain of a darn about you or something you say in order for it to work.

            Is your tool box empty so soon? You are scratching frantically at the bottom of the bucket with the starting line in sight?

            Please don’t flip the tired old “this never happens to me” line.

            Do you usually feel more clever? Can you try again? I’ll at least raise my eyebrows. I promise.

          • OldandNavy

            Men drink the kool-aid, too. Being one gender or another has nothing to do with how hateful a person is.

          • OldandNavy

            Weak weak weak weak, man. One, your prose is that of an adolescent (“i am a man. “)

            Two, you don’t actually have anything to say. Your position is so weak that you have nothing to address the counter argument with save a flaccid (“And is that machine-code I hear? “) personal slight of the kind a self absorbed teenager might make, thinking themselves clever or somehow sooooo socially forward.

            Are you really typing all of this on purpose?

            Gah. It’s getting boring, jingles. Step it up or I might go away.. and that would deprive me of my fun. We are really having a good time passing your idiotic musings around here.

          • Chelsea Tornade-Hoe

            she rocks my socks, says she started womens refuge, great!

          • Kimski

            Unfortunately one half in here doesn’t even understand the concept of equality. Welcome to yet another rendition of 1984, btw.

          • AMRA

            Erin Pizzey founded the first DV shelter in the UK, she was a speaker at the mens conference, she recieved death threats from feminists for stating that men were as likely as women to be victims of DV. She is to gender politics what Ghandi is to peace.

          • anla

            No. She didn’t. The fact that you believe that particular lie puts all yout beliefs (which are direct from her teachings) in question. You have been played. By a woman. (the irony of which is not lost on anyone but AVfM members, of course…)

          • TruthHurts
          • anla

            You need to look into actual fact-based sites, not her sale site… Good luck to you.

          • Lana

            Yeah . . . and when you read some of the interviews she’s done . . . she’s not actually talking (at least early on, when she was still working directly with victims) about men being physically abused by their female partners. She’s talking about her personal and *extremely* judgmental view on how many of the women she helped actually *deserved* help and which ones didn’t. What she calls “violence-prone” women and female abusers . . . are women who argued back with abusive partners and escalated (“caused”) the abusive partner’s anger and level of violence by failing to submit deferentially. In her view, because these women often went back to their partners or became involved with similarly abusive men later (prompting her to say that “abuse is like an addiction for these women . . . they seek it out and cause it.”). Clearly she doesn’t care to know or learn anything about Stockholm syndrome, gaslighting or any of the other innumerable ways DV victims are regularly convinced that they are worthless and crazy and absolutely nothing without their abuser. While I do not condone the threats she received, this woman is using an extremely limited anecdotal view to determine “worthwhile victims” that ignores so much about what we know of the emotional and psychological effects of DV and completely undermines decades of work to have DV victims taken seriously and given support and I can understand the anger and betrayal many women felt toward her.

            She was supposed to be helping the women who came to her . . . and instead she sold their stories for book deals and interviews about how more than half of DV victims are just getting exactly what they deserve. That’s appalling.

          • TruthHurts

            Clearly your a retard who knows nothing about borderline personality disorder and the millions of crazy women who have it. There are hundreds of survey that show that women are more likely to attack men, when its reciprocal women strike first, when its not women are doing the abusing 70% of the time. As for manipulation, women are the most manipulative of the 2 genders by far. They initiate 80% of divorce, AKA 400% more likely to stab the person they claim to love forever in the back, and are nearly twice as likely to default on child support. welcome to parasite culture you evil blood sucking troll. This is true and you know it is, you just wont admit it because women demand exclusive use of the victim card so men wont question them on how parasitical they are. Also 60-80% of rapists have been abused by a woman and the vast majority of child abuse is carried out by women. YOU ARE EITHER EVIL OR DELUSIONAL. You must know this is true, you are not capable of compassion to men because you are a weak, evil insecure parasite with a girlcode pack mentality. Really believe in equality? GO KILL yourself, even up the odds, cause after all men make up 80% of suicide victims, how is that fitting into your women are always the victim diatribe?

          • Ohone

            “What about teh menz lol” is designed to mock male abuse victims and mock anyone that advocates inclusion of them or any male issues in the dominant gender equality movement

            In feminism the male role is to “sit down, shut up and listen” or else act as an attack dog – David “whoozle” Futrelle for example. So its just a variation of traditionalism.

          • Andybob

            No princess.

            Feminists don’t build or fund anything. It’s tax dollars that do that – tax dollars that are mostly provided by men.

            Domestic violence shelters for men are virtually non-existent. Your assertion that they do is dishonest and offensive. The reason why there are virtually no DV shelters for men is because feminists continually deny the existence of male victims of female-perpetrated DV – and too many people like you have yet to cotton on to the fact that feminists tend to lie about these kind of things.

            Have you ever heard of the Duluth Model on which all DV legislation is based? It categorically states that men cannot be victims of female-perpetrated DV they belong to the oppressor class, therefore any violence done by women against men is always justified.

            The Duluth Model was constructed by feminists who relentlessly lobbied it to politicians fearful of upsetting the sisterhood and being smeared as misogynists.

            What about the men, you ask? Well, those who seek any form of support from the police or DV shelters get directed to homeless shelters – even when they have children equally at risk from their abusive mother. Sometimes these men actually get arrested because, if DV has occurred, then he must be the guilty party – the Duluth Model says so.

            This is one of the issues addressed at the conference in Detroit, and you, and others like you, have the temerity to claim that this derailed “conversations about abuses towards women”? You are part of the reason why there must be a Men’s Human Rights Movement. The participation of man-hating bigots like you will never be welcome or required.

          • Kimski

            Nice counter.
            And a crash course in basic economics to a monetary challenged. I like it. 😉

          • Kimski

            LOL, BS! It’s men’s substantially higher income taxes that runs feminism and all it’s tumors.

        • Kimski

          And now I’d like to hear your opinion on the Jezebel-piece, just to get your, I’m sure, completely unbiased opinion on that: You know, the piece that discusses ACTUAL events taking place, and not hysteria over written words.

          • Kimski

            Yeah,, thought so..*Crickets!*

          • Andybob

            My most vivid memory of the Jezebel article is the feminist commenter who regaled readers with her account of pouring boiling water on her sleeping boyfriend because she was still annoyed by some minor spat from earlier that evening – and the dozens of replies of the ‘you go girl’ variety which applauded her violent assault.
            Paul Elam wrote a parody of this abomination of an article by flipping the sexes in the vain hope of making the Jezebel feminists understand that they were promoting domestic violence, which is unacceptable regardless of the perpetrator’s sex.
            Anyone who cites Mr Elam’s article as evidence of his promotion of violence has obviously never read it, or the Jezebel article that prompted it. It requires a rare kind of ignorance to condemn an article they obviously haven’t read.
            If they have read the article, and continue to misrepresent it as anything other than a parody condemning domestic violence, then they are being intentionally dishonest.
            Paul Elam’s article may have failed to teach feminists that domestic violence is unacceptable, but it has enabled MHRAs to know at a glance which commenters are morons and liars.

        • Kimski
          • Autosuggest

            yeah..none of those links mock rape victims.christ one was a teen joke site…check reddit for more nonsense you can copy/paste

          • Lisabeth Hanscom

            zero rape jokes on any of those pages (Sexistjokes.net is now a ghost page)

      • Autosuggest

        Stop desperately looking for something to blame and bully (in this case women) Mens rights “activists” and Fundamentalist Christians..both over represented and privileged in our society..both often crying about they’re “oppressed” Grow some self respect

        • Lea Tapp

          They belong lumped in with the racists who are angry that there is no “White History” month.

          • Ohone

            Didn’t white women get included as a minority in a bid to appropriate the civil rights act by an anti civil rights white segregationist and womens groups working together – so the bulk of the resources would go to well off white people instead of the people that really needed it?

          • Autosuggest

            Ha..exactly There so desperate to minimize, distort and/or appropriate a woman’s experience .. the sound like cult members

          • Ohone

            They cannot be trying to appropriate women’s experience.

            Women dominate all the measures of wellbeing, they talk about me dominating those of hardship. Women don’t lack parental rights, don’t experience being excluded from abuse intervention or their abuse being deliberately erased with dishonest statistics or being told their place in the gender equality movement and so on.

          • Kimski

            Funny, considering it’s coming from a supporter of an ideology with known historical ties to the KKK.

      • Lea Tapp

        Yes. Citations please.

        • Kimski

          Go fly a kite.
          You seem to have the appropriate age.

        • Andybob

          You couldn’t care less about citations. Like all feminists, you have routinely ignored all of the citations provided for your edification, yet continue to demand them.

          No MHRA has any delusions that an ideologue like you can be persuaded of anything involving logic and truth. We are participating for the sake of the fence-sitters who can see your bigotry and lies for what they are – and are judging you accordingly.

      • Lana

        What did I say in my comment, Kim? I said that ABUSE IN ANY CONTEXT is not ok. If there is a woman abusing her partner, that is not ok, if there is a man abusing his partner, that is not ok. If there is anyone who prefers not to answer to those pronouns abusing their partner, that is not ok. But guess what? The fact that someone else said something that was not ok DOES NOT give you a free pass to be just as bad or worse. You should be trying to be a better human instead of talking about how much blood you want to come out of your girlfriend’s face before you make her start cleaning.

        • Kimski

          I have NEVER hit a woman in my entire life! I’m miles behind on that scoreboard, if you actually cared about the truth.
          Please direct me exactly to where I made ANY statement that even comes close to you false accusation, and I will remove it immediately.
          Oh, right. You can’t.

          Oh, and btw, I provided you with those links you wanted, which is propapbly the real reason for this attempt at deflecting. Not like I haven’t seen that before, but I at least addressed the issue…

          • Lana

            The line supposedly taken out of context was one made by Elam about wanting to beat up his wife/girlfriend/woman who pissed him off, it had nothing to do with whether or not you’ve ever hit a woman. It’s point #3 in the article you’re commenting on. I find his statement to be quite horrifying and I don’t think that there’s any justification for it. Other people behaving badly does not give him a free pass.

          • Kimski

            So you were basically holding ME accountable for something someone else wrote??? How does that even make sense to you??
            FYI, I have never even read the article, cause I don’t find it relevant as anything else but a response to the Jezebel article it was addressed to.
            -Which I can’t help noticing your NOT addresssing.
            I’ll be looking forward to seeing you holding Lea accountable for that one.
            Fair is fair, right?

          • Lana

            O.o
            I never held you responsible for his comments, I hold you responsible for defending his comments as being justified because someone else said something bad. And yes, I addressed the Jezebel article when I said that ABUSE IS NOT OK. I don’t really care which gender is perpetrating the abuse, abuse itself is not ok. The fact that someone else said something nasty and abusive about their partners in no way pardons him talking about beating his wife/girlfriend/whoever’s face in. And his line about what he would like to do to her is quoted verbatim in #3 of this article that you are currently commenting on. And what, exactly, am I holding Lea accountable for?

          • Kimski

            WTF?? Don’t you even read what you write??

            “The fact that someone else said something that was not ok DOES NOT
            give you a free pass to be just as bad or worse. You should be trying
            to be a better human instead of talking about how much blood you want to
            come out of your girlfriend’s face before you make her start cleaning.”

            ^What is this, then, if not exactly that???

          • Lana

            *sigh*

            Did you read this article here that you are commenting on? Please go re-read bullet point #3. That is the violence I am talking about. The “you” in the line you-Kimski are quoting was the general “you” and not specifically “you-Kimski,” although by defending that threat of violence as a justified response to other people’s threat of violence, you are associating yourself with that threat to a certain degree.

          • Kimski

            No I am not! I’m defending that article in the spirit it was written in, as a response to ACTUAL events, and the right to free speech that comes along with addressing that issue.
            You can’t just censor things because you don’t like them, and the fact that overtly entitled ideologues thinks they have the right to do so, solely based on a pseudo-religious ideology, is a violation of basic human rights and the Constitution of the country you live in, fer crissake!
            The hypocrisy of noone addressing the article it was addressing in the first place is certainly not wasted on anyone outside of that ideology, and that’s another reason for me defending it.
            It’s not only a blatantly obvious example of holding the genders to different standards, because the woman at Jezebel actually confessed to DV against their partners, while Paul Elam has done nothing but write about it.
            If you’re incapable of telling the difference between written words and actual physical violence, there’s something seriously wrong with you.
            Apparently those mental health problems applies to almost everyone on this comment thread, and that doesn’t necessarily include you.
            But just take a deep breath and actually think about it: In one case there’s a substantial amount of actual crimes being committed and in the other case there’s someone writing about it.
            Which is worse?? .

          • Lana

            So because they were worse, it’s completely acceptable for him to write this:

            “In the name of equality and fairness, I am proclaiming October to be
            Bash a Violent Bitch Month. I mean literally to grab them by the hair
            and smack their face against the wall till the smugness of beating on
            someone because you know they won’t fight back drains from their nose
            with a few million red corpuscles.

            And then make them clean up the mess.”

            Personally, I find this horrifying. And if we’re getting to the point of levels of victimization, you also have to look at the difference between a person confessing to a violent act and a public figure on a public platform exhorting others to go out and perform violent acts. None of it is apples to apples and none of it excuses the rest.

            And first amendment rights mean that you have a right to speak your mind without *government* interference, not that you are in any way free from the consequences of that speech.

          • Kimski

            And now it’s time to copypaste to some of the statements from Jezebel, which is also a public platform, with a lot more viewers, right?
            Hey! we can have our own victimhood-olympics right here in the mud at Steve’s!
            Contrary to the majority of those throwing hissy fits over that article, it’s my general understanding that most of the readers over at AVfM were fully aware of the satire, and there’s never been a single recorded incident of violence or threats involving the regulars.
            I know that for a fact, ’cause it’s my business to throw their asses out if they even hint at such a thing, and I take that position extremely serious.

          • Lana

            I certainly hope that you do. Personally, I’ve seen too much of the aftereffects of sexual and intimate partner violence to be ok with any of it, whether acted on or “satirically suggested.” It’s all kind of a no-fly zone for me. And there will always be someone somewhere who said something worse. Measuring whether his comments were acceptable or defensible or even just “not that bad” based on someone else’s words or actions is kind of like saying “well, he’s better than Hitler, so it’s all good.” You know what I mean? We have to have some level of “this is bad” instead of phrasing it relative to other bad things.

          • Kimski

            I agree. You do know that that article was posted more than 3 years ago, right? It was only brought into the light as a means to dismiss the issues at the conference, so noone needs to address the problems faced by men and boys.
            It’s a strategy that is used over and over by the opposition, who will then turn around and ask: “Why are you not doing anything!”
            -Exactly like you asked below.
            The reasons should be obvious to you now, right? Half of our staff has to deal with this stuff on a daily basis, while noone wants to talk about the REAL issues or do anything about them.

            And don’t worry. I do take that position very serious, and I’ve done so for the past couple of years without complaints.

          • Lana

            I didn’t know the exact date, but it was mentioned in this article (the muckraker one above) that it was a comment he’d made previously and not something that was said at the conference.

            I guess my biggest problem with what you’re saying right here is just that no one on this massive flame war thread of doom has (that I’ve seen at least) talked about specific positive things that were part of the conference. What *are* the problems faced by men and boys that are so severe that none of the negative and sometimes hateful things that people publicly associated with/presenting at the conference shouldn’t matter? Sorry, I know that’s horribly wordy, but I’m about to go to bed and it’s the only phrasing I can think of.

            The only things I’ve seen here in terms of legitimate, non-misogynistic male-centered issues are “there are male DV victims too” which, ok, traditional female DV shelters *are* extremely limited in terms of services they can provide to male DV victims (which of course does make me ask “what do MRAs intend to actually do about it?” :-D) and “there are male victims of sexual violence/there are female sexual predators,” which is very true, but has been phrased by a few people on here as kind of “it’s ok for me to disparage/judge/make jokes about female rape victims because there are male victims too.” o.O*

            I don’t get it. If there were so many positive, non-misogynistic aspects to the conference that “the media” has completely ignored, what were they?

          • Kimski

            I’ll get back to you on this tomorrow, Lana. Sun is coming up here, and I’ve been at it for 20 hours now. I have everything you want to see, but need to wait for the rest of the staff to come online to get it, and then I’ll be happy to link to it, okay?
            Prepare to have your mind blown, though. What you see in your profession is only a tiny tip of a a massive iceberg.

          • Lana

            I’ll check back in tomorrow then. And the sun came up here a couple of hours ago. 🙂

          • Kimski

            Here’s the info you wanted. Submerge yourself in the world of male inequalities and disposability. There’s enough of it to go around for everyone, but only half of the global population actually ever do:

            http://www.avoiceformen.com/activism/about/

            http://judgybitch.com/2013/09/17/what-would-happen-if-no-men-showed-up-for-work-today/

          • Lana

            Kimski, I read the AVFM link and a few articles on Judgy Bitch. I also followed through on links provided by another commenter to watch the presentation Warren Farrel gave at the conference, and all that I can say is no.

            There is so much data here that has been cherrypicked, so many studies that have seriously flawed methodologies and so many issues being presented without any real thought to the reasons behind them or what would be involved in fixing them and running under almost all of it is this whispering thread of misogyny that is visible in so much of the presentation, the jokes, the way that so many things are blamed on women wholesale and never looked at in their broader societal context. Where is the recognition that men are the primary sexual abusers of children? Where is the discussion about the way we teach our boys to “be men” by acting aggressively and talking over others and never allowing themselves the emotional vulnerabilities that we all have as human beings? Where is the planning, the call to action to provide meaningful help for our communities? Where is the recognition that every time you pretend that rape and sexual assault and DV don’t exist or shouldn’t be considered as much of a problem for women, you are diminishing and demeaning the suffering of all victims, including boys and men? Where are the discussions of consent, of openness about sexuality, of the many and different and wonderful ways that we can parent and raise our children to break some of the cycles of violence in our society? Where is the recognition that sexual violence is a horrific act with horrific consequences, and one that everyone should be involved in preventing?

            And where, for the love of God, is the acknowledgement that physical DV between men and women is not a level playing field? A typical man is usually bigger and significantly stronger than a typical woman, and despite data showing that women are just as likely to “commit a physical act of violence” against an intimate partner, being punched by a typical woman might leave a bruise. Being punched by a typical man can break multiple bones in your face. There is a dramatic difference in the physical harm that can be inflicted by physical DV. It is this capability to inflict significant damage that has helped to shape many of the DV laws in this country. Are women just as powerful when it comes to psychological and emotional abuse? YES, absolutely, but the reason for DV shelters is predominately to give an abused spouse and their children who are in fear for their lives a safe place to stay. Part of the reason that DV shelters typically cannot help male victims beyond referrals for counseling and legal services is that *for safety reasons, most DV shelters do not allow men access to the shelters, except for doctors, counselors and limited service providers.* If women are the only abusers, or the primary abusers and men are in fear for their lives, why did I have to call for a police escort to my dorm every night for three weeks in Ohio, because one woman’s husband had stalked me on my walk home and threatened me a tire iron? Why did I see so many children with bruises on their faces who would run and hide in a corner if someone forgot and raised their voice? You cannot make a conversation about DV and its impact on survivors and completely ignore the fact that there is so much damage done *by men.*

            If you want to change the negative impact something in our society has that makes boys less likely to do well in school (but usually still able to get a better-paying job without a college degree), makes them more likely to commit suicide (we teach them that only girls have “best friends” and “talk about feelings” and that asking for help is an admission of weakness). We teach them that aggressive behavior is prized (look at how many athletes) and that misconduct is a normal part of growing up (boys will be boys) and that women and girls who cross their paths don’t need to say yes to sex in order to be sexually available (“doesn’t no mean yes?” “But did you hear what she was *wearing?*” “Man, look at that drunk slut”) and then you are surprised that we have an epidemic of violence, not only against women and girls, but against BOYS AND MEN TOO. Do you really think that all of these problems *don’t* stem from the same hyper-masculine hogwash we teach our boys?

            Just as many women have worked for decades to get recognition for the fact that women are physically, mentally and emotionally capable of more than child-bearing and housekeeping, now we need to stop and look at our views of traditional masculinity. We have a decent idea, looking at language differences, levels of aggression, and mental health, about which aspects of traditional masculinity are utterly failing our boys. We need to work on introducing a different dialogue, one that doesn’t deny their feelings or suffering or need to reach out to other people. We need to treat our boys less as men and more as human. Blaming their mothers for “the men they married” or for being a primary caregiver doesn’t do much to help that. Despite the fact that there are some actual issues that are vitally important to the health and well-being of men and boys in this country that you are trying to bring into the discussion, I think that as long as you’re mixing those in with misogyny and denying rape victims and calling women cunts and whores or Farrel complaining about paying for women’s company (is buying dinner supposed to guarantee him sex?) before he *bothers* to talk about the issues with disposability of men and the Judgy Bitch article about how because men do much of the physical labor in society, women deserve to be second-class citizens, you’re never going to accomplish anything constructive. All you’re going to do is lower the level of discourse and further divide people who you could have brought together to actually work on some of these issues. You want to help boys? How many will you help when speakers at your conference are insulting their mothers and saying that their sister is a lying slut if she says she was raped? What good are you doing? Who are you helping? Awareness is an important first step, but at some point, you need to move beyond it and start doing something about these issues! What organization for mental health or counseling services or legal services will want to partner with you when you’re classified as a hate group because of a very vocal contingent that says some truly horrifying things?

            I know that I’m responding days after the fact, and there’s no guarantee that you’ll ever actually get this, but I really needed to sift through my feelings on the matter. I’ve tried to sort out what just made me instinctively angry and why that was. I can’t get past the complete dismissal of women as *people* in the conference. Instead of being human beings, we are abusers, liars, cunts, whores, sluts, and everything that is wrong with society today. The conference used the kind of vitriol against all women that I’ve only seen feminists use wholesale against violent/harrassing clinic protesters and male judges and politicians that interfere with a woman’s right to bodily autonomy.

            I’m also going to include a link of my own, Kimski, and I would appreciate it if you would do me the favor of watching it. While this man focuses more on sexual violence than anything else, I still think he has a few excellent points on the need to look at this as a whole.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTvSfeCRxe8

            Good luck, and I hope that you manage to do some good in the world.

    • Ohone

      Do you know how feminists typically responded to men that are raped (probably more than women) being excluded over the last 10 years?

      “What about teh menz (that are raped) LOL !!!”

      • Lea Tapp

        No, they don’t.
        That’s a lie.
        Just because when you attempt a derail you get laughed at it does not mean that men genuinely sharing their trauma in a feminist space are laughed at.
        Citation of STFU

        • Ohone

          It’s no lie. I’ve seen it countless times.

          Many male rape and abuse victims have experienced it first hand.

          Even the feminist run help lines – often mock men or try to suggest they are the abuser.

          You aren’t the good people.

          • Lana

            How many feminist spaces do you regularly spend time in with your mouth closed and your mind open?

          • Ohone

            I’ve been dealing with feminists for years … yes I know the expectation for male feminists is to “sit down, shut, up and listen” – while feminists pretend only women are abused and have issues and sneer “what about teh menz” at anyone who says otherwise.

            Thats why the mens liberation movement split from feminism in the first place and why its being dismantled by the mens movement today.

            Eventually there will be a gender equality movement – but that cannot happen not until feminism in its current form is gone.

          • Lana

            No, we don’t. I’ve worked in women’s centers and domestic violence shelters in three states and while most of the victims willing to come to us are female, there are a number of men who come to WOMEN’S CENTERS and SHELTERS because there is no male equivalent for victims’ services. I have probably done more for male victims of sexual violence in my time volunteering than you have in your whole life, even if that help has sometimes just meant listening without judgement and offering referrals to free or low-cost counseling services. If MRAs are so concerned about male victims of sexual violence, why is there no male-oriented support service organization? You trot out the example of male victims to justify not taking female victims seriously, but DO NOTHING to actually help them.

          • Ohone

            Oh really?

            Then why are there so many male victims that had “what about teh menz lol” sneered at them – how did it become such a big thing?

            How is it feminists took over the original DV movement that knew women were equally violent through threats and intimidation and covered up the truth and banned men from even working in them?

            How is it Denise Hynes research uncovered male abuse victims being mocked ringing feminist help lines, or else being redirected to batterer programs?

            How is it female paedophilia was swept under the rug by feminists in the 1970s?

            How is it that numerous whistle blowers have come forward about feminisms fraudulent DV research that makes DV appear a gendered problem?

            How is it feminists heckled and harassed support groups for the victims of female paedophiles?

            How is it VAWA has clauses in it that rule men out from receiving resources?

            How is it that there is no such thing as a feminist sexual assault or DV information source that isn’t minimizing or erasing female perpetration?

            You aren’t the good people in this at all.

          • Lana

            If every word you just said is true, then I repeat: why haven’t you, yourself and your concerned fellow MRAs worked to establish safe spaces and counseling services and legal services for male victims? If this is a problem you feel strongly about, you should be doing something to help, rather than shouting at people on the internet who are doing more than you.

          • Kimski

            Because we don’t have access to the same kinds of funding feminists have, exactly because of hatched jobs from the likes of Steve.

          • Nor

            The women’s shelters just started as women taking other women and their kids into their homes. No funding, no support, and putting themselves and their own children in significant risk for physical harm. Why aren’t you doing that?

          • Mike Hunt

            You are delusional. I feel sorry for you.

            Have you ever consisted entering an MRA space with your mouth shut and your mind open?

            Of course you haven’t.

          • Ohone

            Groups that cover up pedophilia, abuse and sex criminality in their own group, then stereotype another biological demographic with these dysfunctional behaviors get push back. Its morally correct to criticize groups that manipulate statistics to disappear and exclude abuse victims.

            Its morally correct to criticize feminism.

            As for your red herring questions.

            I don’t work in counselling.

            If the feminist coverage of the conference was honest and didn’t focus on false accusations and mocking a mentally ill man. You would know the answer to the rest of your questions.

            The woman that stated the shelters movement but was harassed, threatened and intimidated out of it by feminists because she included womens abuse of men and children was speaking at the conference. She is an editor at AVfM.

            A Canadian counter part of hers was also speaking as was a psychologist that helps abused men.

            See, when men talk about these things and male victims exclusion and erasure people – usually feminists attack and mock them.

            That’s a large reason why your movement is being dismantled.

            Thats why you are all mocking and trying to paint a mentally ill man as a sex criminal, instead if talking about the content of the conference.

            You are not the good people in this.

          • Zhou_Mak

            I have never been in a feminist space where they do the same, so why should I return a courtesy I won’t be getting?

          • Mike Hunt

            Typical feminazis. Just shut up and listen! To what? You victim blanking men die everything?

          • Sagamanus

            What the F are you talking about?

      • Lana

        Sweetie, I have never heard that sentence used like that. “What about teh menz” is usually used as a side remark to describe a man who steps into a feminist discussion, completely disregards the topic at hand and proceeds to tell the women how awesome he is to women and how he knows more about feminism than they do and really it’s more important to focus on men like him rather than our piddling little problems. See also: mansplaining. It has nothing to do with rape or male rape victims.

        Feminists do not hate men or want to see them beaten or raped or killed. We have fathers, brothers, husbands and sons and we don’t want anything bad to happen to any of them. We want victims’ services available to ANYONE who has been a victim of sexual violence, regardless of age, race, gender, appearance, education or sexual orientation. When young boys and men who had been abused as boys began speaking up about child molestation in Catholic churches, who stood shoulder to shoulder with them? Their mothers! Who fought to get their abusers locked up and defrocked and as far away from other children as possible? Their entire families! We work so hard to end victim-blaming and to provide support and counseling for ALL rape victims, and when people like Elam start making jokes and judgements about buyer’s remorse and “whores” that is bad for ALL victims. Can you not see that?

        • TefEx

          Nobody hates anyone they don’t have a personal beef with and even then its not always hate. ‘Hate’ and its cousin ‘Misogyny’ are shaming and propaganda terms and you know it. How are they working out for you?

        • Ohone

          Right.

          Feminists exclude everyone bar women and when the need to stop erasing female violence and including male victims they traditionally have sneered “what about teh menz (raped, abused, discriminated against etc) lol”

          • Lana

            That’s absolutely false. We exclude no one except people who are nasty, condescending and misogynistic. I’m guessing you’ve had issues with feminists because you fit all three categories.

          • Ohone

            Nice projection. Your previous post opened with “sweetie” and now you are calling other condescending.

            Feminists erased female paedophiles and their victims.

            http://i.imgur.com/Imd5FwV.png

            http://i.imgur.com/j5qCZ0L.png

            Covered up female DV.

            http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/V74-gender-symmetry-with-gramham-Kevan-Method%208-.pdf

            And uses rape data collection methodology that erases all female rapists.

            And they have traditionally sneered “what about teh menz lol” at anyone who advocate inclusion.

          • Lana

            No one is denying that there are male victims or female abusers. Are there some people who see female sexual predators as less common and therefore use male-oriented language referring to abusers? Unfortunately, yes, but that’s actually across the board and in no way limited to feminist literature. Unfortunately, we live in a society that views sex as a means for domination and control and not just as a pleasurable activity for consenting adults, and people who seek power through physical violence will continue to exist until we redefine that as a society. It’s really not a men-vs-women thing.

          • Ohone

            No one is denying that there are male victims and female abusers.

            Feminists just minimize and hide them in minipulated data, discriminate against them in intervention services and have traditionally sneered “what about teh mens lol! in the faces of male abuse victims when its brought up.

            They are “derailing”.

            You are not the good people.

          • Lana

            Tell me exactly how many male victims you have assisted in dealing with their trauma over the years. I volunteer in that “feminist intervention services” field and I sincerely doubt you’ve helped as many actual male victims as I have. When in this conversation have I sneered at male victims? I *am* one of the good people, and I will continue to try and be one.

          • Ohone

            You are just a feminist on the internet. You are in my experience typically pathological liars and the research on feminist intervention services (Hynes) contradicts your claims. All my claims are supportable.

            In this conversation – you yourself defended “what about teh menz lol!” – which is a a traditional feminist taunt for male victims.

            You sit in the comments sections of dishonest articles written by feminists that attack groups that advocate for equal inclusion and empathy for male victims.

          • Lana

            No, it’s not a feminist taunt for male victims. It’s a joke about men who try to take feminist discussions and turn them into what’s “really important: men’s issues.” It might have been misquoted or misapplied by MRAs to make themselves feel more oppressed, but it’s not anything against male victims.

            And still, WHY ARE YOU NOT DOING SOMETHING TO HELP?

          • Autosuggest

            They do nothing for men..the head of the Canadian AVFM said she keep asking to open shelters/help lines..she said Elam said “no, that’s what feminists do” she quit..she said on Skype call with the heads of AVFM mra..they talked constantly about how to get people mad..and keep them mad..she did some youtube vids about it

          • Chad_Nine

            I’m assuming you’re talking about Kristina Hansen, AKA the Woolybumblebee.

            Last I heard she raised money for a men’s shelter, that never happened.

            http://www.avoiceformen.com/a-voice-for-men/what-happened-to-the-earl-silverman-center/

          • Kimski

            Oh, yeah, she was actually entrusted with a substantial amount of donation money, some of them mine, she then went out an bought herself a car with.
            The money was intended for a shelter for men in Canada, but after she conveniently split up with AVfM after the donation run, the money were handed over to the CAFE organisation, because she didn’t want to give them back.
            Never trust an ideologue with money.

          • Mike Hunt

            She wasnt the head of anything, she was an unstable lunatic that was in it for herself and stole a bunch of money. She was disowned and ruthlessly focuses criticised by AVFM. Get your facts straight/stop lying.

          • Kimski

            Because none of us has ever signed a contract specifically stating that we are obligated to help women.
            That just came along with the gender, along with the higher standards and expectations of responsibility and accountability.
            And why would women need help if they’re allegedly equal to men, besides being able to do everything men can, and backwards in high heels?
            Help yourself. That has always been expected of us, and is a demand we face daily, -everywhere.
            That’s the whole point of equality.

          • Lana

            I was actually asking why he’s not doing anything to help male victims of sexual violence….since feminists apparently are either not doing enough or are actively traumatizing male victims (still not sure which, but he keeps reiterating it).

            I never signed a contract to help everyone either….oh wait, yes I did, when I started volunteering at DV shelters and Women’s Centers, where I have hopefully helped at least a little when face-to-face with male victims.

          • Kimski

            On behalf of those males, and if you didn’t immediately ask them: “Why have done X, you horrible man!”, I’d like to thank you for that.

          • Lana

            Usually I’m limited in the help I can offer. I can refer to free and low-cost counselors who have experience dealing with victims of sexual assault and we have an office of law students who can provide some extremely limited time and advice for free and health services like Planned Parenthood and NYC DOHMH for free STD screening, but every one of those programs (and mine) has had its budget hacked to bits in the last 3-4 years and has had to cut back services offered. It’s really not a good situation and one of the reasons why people who want to get into snits on the internet about male victims vs female victims just make me want to pull my hair out. ALL victims are suffering and they ALL deserve prompt, nonjudgmental support.

          • Kimski

            Well, at least we have that in common, because I agree 100%

        • Andybob

          “We [feminists] want victims’ services available to ANYONE who has been a victim of sexual violence…” Lana
          This is the kind of claim that feminists like to make while desperately hoping that no-one notices what they actually do.
          One of the things that feminists do is violently oppose any funding for men’s DV shelters. Something else they do, is remain silent when other feminists violently oppose any funding for men’s DV shelters.
          Then, they claim, as Lana has done, that they do neither of things and pretend that they actually want funding for men’s DV shelters. And they wonder why MHRAs have come to distrust what feminism says about itself.
          Feminists have billions of tax-payers’ dollars at their disposal. If they wanted men’s DV shelters for men, they would have existed long ago – and this conversation wouldn’t be necessary.

          • Lana

            What I know is what I personally do. I know that I try my best to help everyone who walks through the door, regardless of race, age, gender, sex, sexual orientation, immigration status, marital status, personal history, circumstances in life, or my personal feelings about their situations. It is exhausting and emotionally draining and there are days when I just cry on the train ride home.

            It’s also something that I have seen politically discarded again and again when it comes to state, city and federal government budgets and funding from colleges, other non-profits and private donations. If feminists have “billions of tax-payers’ dollars” at “our” disposal, I’d like to know why my organization and other victim services organizations have seen our budgets slashed. Did you know that NYC DOHMH no longer does free std screenings? They’ve had to cut back to offering HIV tests and only screen for other diseases based on whether a person presents clear and obvious symptoms of other stds (many of which often present as asymptomatic). That Planned Parenthood has had to extend wait times for test results and cut back on staffing and appointments? That it’s now close to impossible for us to get victims appointments for counseling (there aren’t nearly enough counselors) unless we make arrangements with city colleges to let non-students join student-based survivor support groups? Where is all of this magical money that we hoard for ourselves? Hm?

    • Geary

      In all fairness, they DID joke about men being raped at the conference as well. While complaining about men’s rape reports not being taken seriously. Huh, wonder why.

      • GripeVine

        Oh brilliant – we should all applaud a good rape joke. I wonder if male victims ask for it – imagine that – HAHA

        • Manua

          They often do, what is the problem?

          • You’re trying to be satirical, right? It’s not working.

    • Long Shanks

      I understand. If all I knew about the MRM was from hatchet job articles like this I would be disgusted as well. That’s why hatchet job articles like this are so insidious. I would recommend if you want a truer story, try and watch a bit of the conference feed on youtube.

      • Lana

        Yeah, except that I made the mistake of commenting, and now I’m hearing actual MRAs’ justifications for all of that. I’m really not convinced that this isn’t anything but woman-bashing in a pretty package.

        • Autosuggest

          Oh there just copy/pasting from there hate site post on “what to say in a internet argument”..have the got too ” women rape men more than men rape woman yet?”..(actual quote from a guy earlier)

        • Long Shanks

          People are angry. Their movement just had their first conference and a very biased media has ridiculed and quote mined the hell out of it. Don’t judge the MRM by anonymous commenters. Should I judge feminism by Lea?
          Don’t get me wrong, there is anger and antifeminism in the MRM, and women do get criticized, but at its heart it is about justice for men and boys. If you can, listen to Warren Farrel’s lecture.

          • Autosuggest

            Here’s the conference organizer (ACTUAL QUOTE FROM HIS BLOG)

            In the name of equality and fairness, I am proclaiming October to be Bash a Violent Bitch Month. I mean literally to grab them by the hair and smack their face against the wall till the smugness of beating on someone because you know they won’t fight back drains from their nose with a few million red corpuscles.

            And then make them clean up the mess.”

            –Paul Elam

            theirs about a hundred more of his posts like that..can imagine why they’re a officially watched hate group

          • Long Shanks

            And it was incredibly insensitive and foolish thing of him to write. It also was not strategic because Futrelle has been spamming it to every lackadaisical journalist he can for the past couple years. If you get a chance to chat with him tell him that well is going to run dry sooner or later.

          • AMRA

            Pubisher’s note: This article, originally published on October 22, 2010, is a satirical response to a piece that appeared on the feminist site Jezebel

            Read actual article.

            http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/domestic-violence-industry/if-you-see-jezebel-in-the-road-run-the-bitch-down/

          • TefEx

            Watched by the mainstream American public..aka feminist fantasy

          • Kimski

            Nice try, but they’re not. SPLC has retracted all innuendoes and accusations three times already, because you morons can’t keep up to date, and keep bringing up this lie.
            Sort of reminds one of the same strategy being used in regards to the wage gap myth and the 1-in-4 numbers, doesn’t it?

          • Lana

            Could you provide a link?

          • Autosuggest
          • TefEx

            Thats an objective reliable resource for sure.

          • Lana
          • Autosuggest

            Oops…lol

          • Long Shanks

            Ask yourself why a decades old column is being used as a preemptive strike against a speech that took place yesterday.

          • Lana

            Possibly because the views he apparently held then are disturbing as heck and even if we accept that people are capable of dramatic change, those views will in some part have contributed to the views he holds now and the person he is today. Could you give me a link to the lecture I should watch of him?

          • Long Shanks

            I posted it above. But if his views are warped, wouldn’t he have expressed those same warped views yesterday? It’s just like with the Paul Elam quote from three years ago. He spoke at length yesterday. Anyway, judge for yourself. Good night and good luck.

          • TefEx

            Des. Per. A. Tion

          • Autosuggest

            yes, like all his articles..he links to the original..

          • Long Shanks

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNNpmMTxt8o
            Farrell’s presentation begins ar about the 40thminute mark. FYI, autosuggest is linking you to David Futrelle’s website. He is the source for the overwhelming majority of hit pieces against the MRM, including this one I would guess.

          • Oh, the Warren Farrell who used to write about “positive” experiences of incest. In an academic way, you understand, but still, ew.

      • DukeLax

        I agree…its these hatchet job articles that are creating the need for more of the MRM.

    • Manua

      First of all, you’re talking like a teenage girl. Check that.

      Second, whether or not you find the joke funny is irrelevant. Some people don’t find it offensive enough to censor. Third, sometimes it IS buyer’s remorse. Try fixing that on college campuses first, otherwise you’re just crowing about equality and have no leg to stand on.

    • LikkiCurry

      I truly do not understand how can you be so full shit to write such spiteful and dishonest article as this.

      If MRAs didn’t joke from time to time, they would most definitely go insane because of people like you they have to deal with on a daily basis.

  • Joy

    I don’t know which MRA had bigger foot in mouth disease at that con. Poor you having to go through it. If I’m not mistaken, wasn’t it Elam that talked about the rollback of men’s rights to Jim Crow?

    • Kimski

      *Sighs!*
      Okay, let’s analyze this for a second here, Joy:
      Did that limited amount of people, (-by your own words elsewhere), actually take away from your freedom of exprssions or your rights as a woman? Do you, in any way feel that you’ve been limited in your everyday personal life, by a bunch of people sitting down and discussing the problems faced by men and boys,-a demographic you don’t even belong to?

      Did you at any time witness these people being subjugated to the exact same things I just asked you about, and overwhelmingly so?
      Well, given the content of this article I’ll respond to that rhetorical question myself:

      Hell, yes!!

      Okay, so who has actually any substantial reasons for being afraid here, when it comes right down to it?
      Most certainly not you, that’s for sure.

      • Lea Tapp

        MRM doesn;t discuss problems facing men and boys. They rant and rave about how women are evil and their equality is the worst thing ever. You encourage violence toward women, distrust of women who report rape, harassment, assault and abuse. You victim blame and claim that rape is to quote Warren Farrell, “Exciting” and that women, to quote Paul Elam, are “begging” for it.
        You don’t want to help men and boys. You want to help male rapists and abusers.

        • TefEx

          And all these claims lead to exactly what?

        • Ohone

          Don’t be making false accusations, it just plays into the worst of feminist stereotypes.

          False accusations are so normalized in your group – you don’t even realize thats what you are doing.

        • AMRA

          So, focusing on men’s issues makes us rape apologists? Sorry, but you just proved that women use rape accusations as weapons whenever they don’t get what they want.

          • Geary

            You guys don’t focus on men’s issues. You never talk about toxic masculinity. You never call out rape jokes about men (unless a feminist says it). You never advocate for LGBT rights. You just whine about how women ruin everything.

          • TefEx

            Then do MRAs need forced participation in women’s studies programs?

          • AMRA

            Actually we call toxic masculinity gynocentric brainwashing, I personally have called out people on prison rape jokes and the main thing we focus on is raising awareness of discrimination against men and how feminists have hijacked the gender issues.

          • Geary

            And who exactly called out the rape joke one of the speakers made at this conference? Because the crowd laughed at that, and it was a prison rape joke specifically.

            Also, way to shift the blame of everything onto women. I see MRA policy #1 is working out nicely.

          • Kimski

            Well, if women stopped hitting infant boys, they might not grow up to be so toxic, right? I mean, most of them learn this shit from someone, before they’re even 5 y/o, and dads at work. So?

          • Mike Hunt

            Maybe because we aren’t man-haters and we don’t think masculinity is toxic, anymore than we think femininity is toxic?

            Pardon me, but your (hate) ideology is showing.

          • Geary

            Toxic Masculinity refer to specific areas of the concept of masculinity that harms men and women, much like how Toxic Femininity refers to specific areas of the concept of femininity that harms men and women. Feminism addresses both of these concepts, the MRM ignores them entirely.

          • Kimski

            Don’t worry. It is already saved for posterity. Let her ramble on. She’s presenting feminism in exactly the way we want it.
            If nothing else, it goes to show how an outstreched hand is received by the majority of her ilk.

          • TefEx

            That ilk does NOT include the American public at large.

          • Kimski

            I hope not.
            What a scary thought, actually.

          • TefEx

            It does not. But feminists are DESPERATE for mainstream approval. They could get there but the MRM is a huge impediment (they feel) and that is the SOLE reason they want the MRM shunned and stopped.

          • Kimski

            And this one seems exceptionally pissed that the conference went through, despite their pathetic attempts at shutting it down. She has nothing, besides lies, false accusations, and ad homs, but it’s quite entertaining…in a rather disturbingly way.
            I’m wondering if I can provoke her enough for her to experience a meltdown…Just for the fun of it. o.0

        • Kimski

          You’re an idiot, there’s no other way to say it or even be gentle about it. I live more than 10.000 miles away from Detroit in the deepest rural district of my country. I basically meet one woman a day, namely my GF through the past decade, and are way too busy with my business to even come close to honoring even ½% of your false accusations.
          Your, on the other hand, is a compulsive false accuser, a bigot, an extremely toxic and unhappy individual, and a mentally and ideologically challenged dimwit.
          You should be kept in a padded room, preferably for an extended amount of years.

          Perhaps Joy will let you move into hers, who knows?

    • Ohone

      After Jim Crow america had no Jim Crow style laws until VAWA.

  • Chad_Nine

    8 Ugly Things About This Article.

    1. False accusations happen.
    http://www.cotwa.info/2014/06/lying-law-graduate-who-claimed.html

    Sweeping the issue under the rug harms our legal process, and the people involved in pursuing justice.

    2. There is no excuse for assaulting a child. Does Steve Neavling think otherwise?

    3. An actual link to the article quoted would be nice. Here, I’ll do your job for you.
    http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/domestic-violence-industry/if-you-see-jezebel-in-the-road-run-the-bitch-down/

    The satire is clearly marked for the quotemining pundits out there. Does anyone think the related Jezebel article is funny for making the topic of domestic abuse into a joke?

    4. I don’t understand how this point is “ugly”.

    5. Totally fabricated, as anyone would know if they actually read the blog entry in question, and largely irrelevant to the topics actually discussed at the conference.

    6. Is criticism of feminism not allowed? Is feminism a holy religion, to be protected from negative commentary? Should we all just swallow the slogans and stop thinking for ourselves? I suggest that people might actually look into the history of the feminist movement of the 60’s and 70’s and make up their own minds.

    7. How is this relevant to the topics at the conference? One creepy guy got told to leave the conference by Paul Elam because he was making some attendees uncomfortable. This is a minor event, dealt with by the conference security, paraded out by Neavling as some kind of “Point”.

    8. Tears are not a rational argument about what was said at the conference. I’m not responsible for her “feelz”, and neither is anyone else.
    Though it is neat that you trot her out like some kind of object of pity, to pull at our heartstrings. How very manipulative.

    • Lea Tapp

      False accusations of rape happen at the same rate as every other reported type of crime 2%. Only 3% of actual rapists ever get convicted. Not only are men not in danger from false accusations of rape, they are in little danger from accurate accusations of rape.

      You’re dishonest and dimwitted if you think anyone outside of your little circle of haters buys you attempt to spin MRA rape apology and vilification of victims as anything but misogyny.

      • TefEx

        What percentage of the American public has ever heard of the M word, knows what it means or actually gives a rats azz? Yeah, about 2%. Ya gotta lot a work to do, Giddy up!

        • Lea Tapp

          The “M” word? Misogyny?

          Just because you’re stunted and illiterate without access to a dictionary doesn’t mean everyone else is.

          …and I have alot of work to do to combat misogyny and I do it every day. So do many, many other people. In fact, when we hold conferences, people actually attend.

          • Kimski

            So, what you’re saying is that you can pack a room full of gullible, mindless sheep?
            Well, most sheep farmers actually do that everyday, so that’s no biggie, actually.

          • TefEx

            Better work faster. You’re way way behind…

      • Ohone

        No, the 2% claim is a feminist whoozle.

        False accusations are a minimum of around 10% confirmed before trial.

        The innocence project find that 25% of men in prison for rape (usually black men accused by white women), are innocent.

        So its 10% + the 25% convicted + all the other undetected ones.

        The only studies that tried to get the true figure found 40 – 50% of them are false.

        • TefEx

          Why would women not file false rape accusations when the feminists have created so much support for rape victims? Its no different than the very documented false slip-and-fall claims against landlords and cities.

      • AMRA

        Based on DNA evidence, 20-26% of all allegations are proven false false. Real rate of false reports is much higher.

        http://www.mediaradar.org/research_on_false_rape_allegations.php

  • And the young “lady” pictured with the story probably still says things like “That’s so gay.”

  • D. L.

    I’ll do a quick point-by-point:

    1. Most college *ALLEGATIONS OF* rape are “buyer’s remorse.”

    2. He’s actually against non-violence, so he is opposed to the extant “stress test” that women can use to justify hitting their children.

    3. that was SATIRE, been dealt with a million times

    4. 375 attended apparently

    5 That’s kinda her schtick

    6 hard to call that a conspiracy theory

    7. False accusation of sexual assault. AS PREDICTED

    8. Maybe she has a conscience after all?

    • Auntie Alias

      “Most college *ALLEGATIONS OF* rape are “buyer’s remorse.””

      Hateful liar.

      • D. L.

        look who’s talking.

    • Nikkie

      1. Not even remotely based on fact, evidence, or reality. A terrible and unfounded assumption.

      2. He’s against non-violence? So…pro-violence?

      3. SATIRE isn’t an excuse. And he made it clear in the writing itself that he doesn’t believe what he suggested is wrong. It’s just too dangerous FOR MEN.

      4. First I’ve heard that number. Especially since, according to their website, the hall only seats 310. The highest number from any media source has been 200.

      5. Recommending men be allowed to screw girls barely out of puberty and still in middle school is her schtick? Yeah probably. Oh she also loves calling women whores. Even on the official conference twitter. Real great PR you got there!

      6. Most people don’t even identify as feminists. And men’s issues existed long before feminism. Circumcision? Selective service? Lower life expectancy? Higher suicide rates? All existed before feminism.

      7. False? Paul Elam made the guy leave the conference because he was making so many people uncomfortable with unwanted touching. I know you guys tried SO HARD to pretend this guy was totally lying, but even some of your own got fed up with being manhandled by this dude.

      8. Implying you didn’t think she had a conscience before? Why? Because she’s a woman? Reporter? What? Maybe she was crying because you people are completely disgusting and drive normal, well-rounded people to tears when they’re faced with such ugliness.

    • A lot of women get a free pass when it comes to hitting their children? Can you cite actual data on this one? If you can’t, you have no argument.

      • Kimski

        Recent studies have shown that women are responsible for up to 73% of the DV against children, so he’s actually absolutely correct in his statement.

        https://reference.avoiceformen.com/wiki/Child_abuse

        DV is not a gender issue, if it ever were. It is a generational issue.

        • I did not ask if women were responsible or not, I asked for data that they get “a free pass”. I absolutely believe (Without looking data first, but the data confirmed it) that women perform most of the DV against children – by virtue that in most environments the mother is still the primary caretaker of children. It makes sense that the person around the child the most has the highest probability of being the abuser if abuse is to take place.

          • Kimski

            “by virtue that in most environments the mother is still the primary caretaker of children”

            As long as NOW keeps lobbying against shared parenting in Congress, we’re not going to see any changes in that anytime soon.

            But that still doesn’t take away from the fact that violence is overwhelmingly taught by the primary nurturer, and as such you will never be able to prevent it on a social scale. If you persist in hosing water on only one side of a burning building, metaphorically speaking, the fire is not going to go away by itself.

            It really boils down to this: You made the bed,-you lie in it, I’m sorry to say..

          • I did not suggest or indicate that mothers who abuse their children should NOT be punished. Any adult who abuses children should be punished. Quite simple. I was simply asking for data to support the previous statement that said women get a “free pass” when it comes to committing violence against children. Nothing you have said indicates otherwise, and you have been skirting around that as if I am trying to defend the right for women to go unpunished, which is not the case. Any person who commits abuse towards a child should be abused. I suspect that by merely leveling the “playing field” of parenting, you will see a more evenly dispersed demographic of violence towards children. The gender of the caretaker is not the issue – the culture where it is acceptable to abuse your kid to get them to behave, however, is.

          • Kimski

            I did not imply you were making any excuses for women’s violence in your comments. Please direct me to where, because I may be suffering from spontaneous dyslexia, if that is the case.

            However, after you’ve been presented with a link stating the obvious, not wanting to do a single google search on the topic, and then dismissing everything offhand, you leave me with no other rational conclusion than excusing or downplaying women’s violence is exactly what you intended. The fact that you consistently chose to keep you replies in a “people”-form, instead of addressing the perpetrators we’ve discuss in their correct gendered form, only adds to that conclusion. I’m sorry if you can’t recognize this fact, but I’ll write it off as being yet another example of anything addressing women in a negative way is perceived as a personal attack by other women.
            Look under: ‘Narcissism’ or *Solipsism’ for further explanations.

          • What? I asked “Please provide examples of women getting a free pass when it comes to domestic violence” and the responses I have gotten are “Here are examples where women have committed domestic violence”. I did not say “I am going to research this”, I was asking in a direct response to a statement a person has made. Nothing that has been said to me here has been a personal attack nor have I tried to make it sound like one. I’ve simply asked a question in response to a statement and the responses I’ve gotten have not in any way actually answered it, and then I get accused of being narcissistic? I’m confused.

          • Kimski

            I’ll strike that last part. It was uncalled for, sorry, but I’ve been at this for days now with the usual suspects.

          • I’m also confused why you were calling me out for calling abusers … people.. instead of women? Because I do not feel that only women should be punished for abuse, or only men should be punished for abuse. People who abuse children should be punished. Full stop. If the point here is an actual, level playing field isn’t that the point? I’m not striving for any gender to get leniency, and it isn’t a single gender that commits this crime exclusively. If it were the case, the language would be different. But it’s not. This may actually be the first time I’ve been called out for calling people “people” instead of separating them when unnecessary.

          • Kimski

            Taken into consideration and thanks for replying. The topic was however women’s violence and the gender biased leniency they receive in the courtrooms. We’ll do men’s violence another day, and you’ll witness the exact same condemnation coming from me. I make no exceptions on this topic, but can’t help wondering how 46% less in criminal sentences can in any way fall under the categories of ‘equality’ or ‘justice’.
            Maybe you can provide me with an explanation to that?
            And with that, I’ll respectfully bid you goodnight, as it is closing up on 2:00AM here.

          • I guess I just don’t like that separation when it was unnecessary. Thanks for being civil, it’s rare on the internet. 🙂

          • Kimski

            You’re welcome. It was a pleasure discussing these issues with a sane individual for a change. 😉

          • Lea Tapp

            That isn’t getting a pass. It is a fact pertinent to the stats. The women are still prosecuted, have their children removes etc.
            OH! I get it! You are saying that those numbers somehow make ALL women guilty of child abuse and that it is the gender that is getting a pass somehow by people recognizing the fact that women as a whole are not violent baby beating monsters who cannot be trusted with custody of our children but that greater numbers of mothers raising children means higher probability of mothers being abusive to children.
            Explaining the factors that increase probability in no way excuses child abuse, nor does it mean female abusers get a “free pass”.
            Happy I could help you sort that out.

          • Kimski

            “You are saying that those numbers somehow make ALL women guilty of child abuse”

            Straw man arguments does nothing to hide your overt narcissism and solipsism.

            “Damn, you MRAssclams are creepy.”

            Hey! I resent that! Especially considering you’re the only one of us with anything that can even remotely be descriped as a “clam”, clam.

          • Kimski

            “That isn’t getting a pass.”

            Okay, will you believe me if I confess I don’t give a sh*t about what you think, then?

          • Kimski

            “by virtue that in most environments the mother is still the primary caretaker of children”

            As long as NOW keeps lobbying against shared parenting in Congress, we’re not going to see any changes in that anytime soon.

            But that still doesn’t take away from the fact that violence is overwhelmingly taught by the primary nurturer, and as such you will never be able to prevent it on a social scale. If you persist in hosing water on only one side of a burning building, metaphorically speaking, the fire is not going to go away by itself.

            It really boils down to this: You made the bed,-you lie in it, I’m sorry to say..

        • And after reading that link in its entirety it does confirm that women perform a significant amount of DV against kids, but it says nothing about any particular group of people being prosecuted more or less than any other.

          • Kimski

            There are so many cases reported in the news where women have tortured infants or killed them, that I hardly know where to start. I’m only surprised you haven’t noticed, since you obviously are in possesion of a computer and an internet connection.
            Anyway, in the vast majority of those cases the women face no legal consequences, and are mostly excused with having “issues”, i.e. receives a slap on the wrist, or very limited time in a mental care facility.
            In the rare cases where they actually do face criminal sentences, they generally receive up to 46% less jail time, than a male committing the exact same crime.

          • Lea Tapp

            If there are so many, cite them and show where the women are given a free pass to torture and murder infants. It should be easy if there are so many.

        • Lea Tapp

          Now site a source that isn’t listed by the SPLC as a hate site. Be sure to show the part where they get a free pass.

    • Lea Tapp

      1. That’s COMPLETE bullshit.

      So was the rest of your sorry ass rebuttals. Fail on, MRAsshat.

      • TefEx

        1. Thats an opinion

  • whatever

    There are so many ways to accurately critique Paul Elam and A Voice For Men and the MRM, that I always wonder about such terribly dishonest critiques such as yours Steve.

    Are you lazy? Stupid? Felt like pissing on journalism this morning?

    • Biot

      What is dishonest about quoting somebody verbatim and giving the context behind those quotes?

      • whatever

        Here is the Paul Elam article quotes by Steve, but without giving the context:

        http://www.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/domestic-violence-industry/if-you-see-jezebel-in-the-road-run-the-bitch-down/

        Read the entire article. READ the Jezebel article it is commenting on. Then come back and tell me that Steve has quoted Elam verbatim and gave the context behind the quote.

        I can critique AVFM all day. I think it is an organization led by morons who do harm to me as a divorced father.

        But I am not lazy, and I am not stupid, and I do not want or need Steve’s and so many other journalists, bloggers, and feminists distortions of the truth.

      • G&PT

        Where was the context in the “there is no stress test for men hitting women” quote? The context was that when women abuse, stress is seen as an excuse. For men it isn’t, and quite right too, and the same should apply to women. Instead of providing context, the author of this piece put words in their mouth by saying that they bemoaned men not being able to use stress as an excuse to hit women, the total opposite of what was said.

    • Long Shanks

      I would say lazy and cliquish. There’s been a consistent tone of “mean girls” schoolyard ridicule in the media’s coverage of this. The fact that he quoted the Times reporter who has been actively tweeting her disdain for the MRM and the conference before she even got on the plane to Detroit as some sort of evidence of their evil is really telling. And all the info on Elam and Janet Bloomfield etc, comes from one source – THE source for everything anti-MRM. Phenomenally lazy actually.

      • whatever

        I agree with this 100%. No, 10,000%.

        Reporters used to claim to be neutral, objective, and strive for an unbiased, honest look.

        Today’s journalists seem to crave group adulation and the group think that inspires.

        • Long Shanks

          It really is worse than ever before. I was a journalist. I went to J-school and even studied media criticism. I have never seen such heavy-handed and overt bias. I think unpopular opinion + lack of influence brings out the instinctive bully in the media. Especially these highly undisciplined blogging types.

      • Lea Tapp

        Well, you would say alot of things that aren’t true. You’re an MRA after all and that’s all you guys do when you aren’t making false accusations of rape, crying about having to pay child support and harassing women online.

        • Long Shanks

          Wow. Do we drunk blood on nights of the full moon as well? But I’m not even an MRA, does that mean I’m somewhat of a human being?

    • Lea Tapp

      It’s dishonest to quote Paul Elam verbatim?

      He says it is moral to beat a woman to a pulp and then make her clean up the mess. Those are his words and there was nothing satirical about them.

      • TefEx

        Its moral, proper, good, just and accepted by the American people since it was written as a response to ACTUAL DV confessions against men from the Jezebel site. Deal.

      • whatever

        Shiniest apple of the bunch, aren’t you?

        • TefEx

          Its genetic. No other explanation.

          • Kimski

            I think it’s the water. Ever considered how many birth control pills that gets flushed into the purification system every month? The sheer amount of hormones?

          • TefEx

            Scientists have confirmed that these chemical ‘equalizers’ are growing female parts on male fish thus disrupting large ecosystems. But, eh, equality.

          • Kimski

            Yeah, go figure.. o.O

  • Long Shanks

    I’m not even against advocacy journalism, but this is nothing but a group think-driven hit piece. If you’d even attempted to engage with the MRMs ideas and then decided you didn’t like it, fine. But you went in, notepad open but mind closed, looking to quote mine the hell out of them and then get your background from the movement’s professional haters. And that Molyneaux quote out of context is really low.

    • Chad_Nine

      Objective reporting doesn’t sell articles.

      • Lea Tapp

        Yeah, he called your bumbling hate group a bumbling hate group for all that sweet blogging cash!
        He’s not Paul Elam, raking in the cash from his marks all day, pretending the money that pays his bills somehow magically stops prison rape or circumcision.

    • Lea Tapp

      It stings when you realize what a sad joke your hate group is to everyone outside it, huh?
      Don’t feel too lonely. The KKK still doesn’t understand why it’s so “misunderstood” either. Focus on the Family just can’t see how so many people think calling gays dangerous abominations is anything but loving.
      They’re just like the MRM in that respect. So, cheer up! You’re in the worst possible company.

      • Kimski

        “It stings when you realize what a sad joke your hate group is to everyone outside it, huh?”

        If that’s the case, why are you then spending all this time stalking them???
        Seems kind of counterproductive in terms of validating any of your claims, to be honest.

      • Long Shanks

        This has to be trolling…

        • Kimski

          I don’t think so. I actually believe she is that way always, now. Imagine being married to her, huh?

  • Sworebytheprecious

    so uh… my name is Swore, in Seattle for the event, i am a feminist who reported on them, and i just wanted to say i have been following MRAs for a while. i was offered access and kicked out of the event loudly. Bloomfield called me a whore multiple times in every way, shape and form you can imagine. this is the least of their sins. thanks, Detroit and St Claire, for sticking with them. Detroit is such an awesome city, i am seriously tempted to move here. everyone is nice beyond belief!

    • Roberto Matus

      Yes, it was very funny. She traveled from Seattle to Detroit to have some fun in the anti-men’s-issues-conference protests, then her friend David Futrelle and co. pulled the rug from under her feet by canceling the protests because, you know, protesting in front of a Veterans of Foreign Wars building wouldn’t look so good.

      That’s David futrelle and other anti men’s-issuess-groups for you. They don’t mind leaving their own friends alone in Detroit just in order to save face.

      • kpd_

        What? You literally just made that up.

        • Kimski

          Nope. Do some more digging.

        • Roberto Matus

          No.

          • Lea Tapp

            Yeah, you did. Whole cloth.

          • Kimski

            No, he didn’t. But you don’t care about facts, so what difference does it make to you?

      • Geary

        1. Feminists never organized a protest in the first place. MRAs just wanted attention, and feminists weren’t going out of their way, spending their own time and money, to give them that.

        2. Are you literally renaming ‘feminism’ as ‘anti-men’s-issues-groups’ when MRAs consistently fight against real issues men experience, like toxic masculinity?

        • Lea Tapp

          There was a protest at double Tree, but none scheduled at the VFW. People were asked not to protest because MRAs had followed a woman to her car and were taking pictures of licence plates. As MRAs threaten and doxx women and consider it “activism” I think they made a wise decision. The best thing critics of MRM can do now is quote them and in so doing, reveal them as the hateful, dishonest bigots they are.
          The IRS should be looking into Elam now too. It will be interesting to hear how the MRAs spin it when Elam gets caught at tax fraud.

          • Geary

            Clearly, his refusal to pay taxes to a blatantly misandrist country is the height of activism, just below harassing women.

          • Kimski

            If it was actually true, and considering the percentage used to fund bigot like you out of those taxes, I wish I could do the same.
            Just sayin’…

          • AMRA

            I call bullshit, right up there with the “arm rape” quoted in the article.

        • Ohone

          “1. Feminists never organized a protest in the first place. MRAs just wanted attention, and feminists weren’t going out of their way, spending their own time and money, to give them that.”

          Stop telling lies – there was a protest face book page and male feminists started talking up violence on it, then the hotel wrote to AVFM because they had received death threats. Then feminists decided not to protest, usually they do and there is usually criminal activity.

          “2. Are you literally renaming ‘feminism’ as ‘anti-men’s-issues-groups’ when MRAs consistently fight against real issues men experience, like toxic masculinity?”

          Toxic masculinity is originally a men’s liberation term, there is the counter part “deep masculinity” which is positive masculinity.

          Feminists appropriated it. When mra’s talk about it its in much kinder and sympathetic terms. While feminists often use it as a term of abuse or fearmongering, and attacks and demonizes anyone who might dare to talk about the female equivalent.

          Feminism – women are from Venus, men are from hell.

          • Geary

            lol you’re serious

          • Ohone

            Absolutely, you were telling blatant lies.

            You have probably never considered the double standards of a group that tells its men not to talk about their problems and to “sit down, shut up and listen” and focus on women’s, and mocks men that do with “what about teh menz”. That also erases and minimizes male victims with manipulated statistics and from PSAs while simultaneously claiming to be “working on” “toxic masculinity”.

            They never told you there was a positive counter part to toxic masculinity either, did they? They erased that too.

            You are not the good people here. You have to go before there is ever going to be a gender equality movement.

        • Mike Hunt

          Toxic masculinity is nothing but anti-male feminist hate. Masculinity is not toxic.

    • Joy

      Paul Elam was such a big mouth too by challenging ‘the feminists’ to come to his foolish little Misogyny Ball, then like the coward he is, refuses you. Paul Elam is a coward.

      • Roberto Matus

        Elam a coward? he has put his own physical integrity on the line while organizing this conference. Meanwhile, where is David Futrelle? Hiding behind a computer while sending gullible girls to do his dirty work. Pathetic coward.

        • Lea Tapp

          His physical integrity?
          WTF does that mean?
          Are you suggesting that he was in danger of being made no longer “whole or undivided”?
          What a fabrication. MRAs are the ones who encourage men to fire bomb courthouses and kill judges, not their critics. MRAs favor doxxing, false accusations and harassment and threats, not feminists.
          Also, swore doesn;t work for David, nor is she a “girl”. Was that your attempt at not looking sexist?
          You failed.
          You know, like the “international conference” did.

          • TefEx

            and yet all these MRAs manage to do is infuriate you…That is all they ever do

          • Geary

            The fact that they’re miserable failures doesn’t mean that they aren’t the ones who call for violence, not feminists.

          • Lea Tapp

            Yeah, rember how those anti-civil rights people pissed off people for social justice and that’s all it took to keep segregation legal?
            Oh…wait…that never happened.

            Meanwhile, I’m not angry. I’m amused. You’re a pack of ludicrous, bumbling trolls and all you seem to be good at doing is making shit up and looking ridiculous.

          • Ohone

            Tea – feminists are the anti civil rights people, a white segregationist and white women’s groups appropriated the civil rights act – thats why most of the benefits were derailed and went to wealthy white women.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_W._Smith

          • Lea Tapp

            Excuse me? feminsm only benefits wealthy white women?

            It isn’t enough that you appropriate the trauma of abused men and boys, you have to appropriate the suffering of racial minorities too?

            So poor women and women of color seeking employment, child support from dead beat dads, education and protection from workplace harassment never benefited from feminism? There are no women of color in office today because of feminism? There are no feminists and womanists working toward the same goals? There are no non-white feminists today?

            http://www.amazon.com/Feminism-Is-Everybody-Passionate-Politics/dp/0896086283

            Tell me something, do you even believe the lies you’re telling? Do you really think you can convince other people with more than two active brain cells to rub together that they’re true?

          • Ohone

            See for yourself.

            In 1964 the burning national issue was civil rights for blacks. Liberals argued that it was the Negro’s hour, and that women should wait their turn, but the National Woman’s Party (NWP) found a way to include sex as a protected category, and thus achieved one of the main goals of the movement.[7]

            The prohibition of sex discrimination was added on the floor by Smith. While Smith was a conservative who strongly opposed civil rights laws for blacks, he supported such laws for women. Smith’s amendment passed by a vote of 168 to 133. Historians debate whether Smith’s motivation was a cynical attempt to defeat the bill by someone opposed to both civil rights for blacks and women or an attempt to improve the bill by broadening it to include women.[6][8][9] Smith expected that Republicans, who had included equal rights for women in their party’s platform since 1940, would probably vote for the amendment. Historians speculate that Smith was trying to embarrassnorthern Democrats who opposed civil rights for women because labor unions opposed the clause.[4]

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_W._Smith

            and thats why its all about wealthy white women instead of minorities.

          • Kimski

            While you tell one lie after another, and spew ad homs to all sides, like a raving lunatic. I’m glad I won’t ever meet you when you’re angry. You sound just like a DV-“accident” waiting to happen to someone you know.

    • Andybob

      Is it really too much to ask that, just for once, MHRAs be left in peace to discuss the rights and welfare of men and boys without some attention-seeking feminist trying to derail it with violence, hysteria and false accusations?
      You weren’t there to report. You were there to disrupt, demonize and disrespect a human rights organization attempting to address important issues which are having a disastrous impact on vast numbers of people.
      It is inevitable that some feminists will not be able to cope with losing control of the narrative. The conference wasn’t about you. Try and deal with it in a more rational and adult manner.
      I urge you to rethink moving to Detroit – that beleaguered city has suffered quite enough.

  • Did you actually attend the conference or are you purposefully being ignorant?

    2. Speaker bemoans lack of “stress test” for hitting wife…

    Not in context – Stefan Molyneaux was responding to a woman in the audience who was basically trying to excuse mothers who hit infants by saying how stressful it can be as a single mother – Stefan responds by pointing out that men don’t have the luxury of excuses if they hit a women, why should it be any different when a child and a woman is involved?

    • Nikkie

      They don’t have the luxury of excuses? You could have fooled me. I hear nothing but excuses for hitting women from the MRA crowd. In fact the man in charge, Paul Elam, wrote a fiction piece years ago in which a man is given a long long list of excuses to hit is super evil wife. In the end of the story all the men in his domestic violence anger management class agree that she deserved the beating of a lifetime instead of just a broken nose. The story is called Anger Management, if you’re interested in reading it and all the excuses it lists for beating women up when they make you sad.

      • Paul

        He was talking about *legal* excuses, not moral excuses.

        Women have an array of excuses for beating people up, killing people, etc. There’s that little loophole called “battered spouse syndrome” that lets them get away with anything. Hell, I’m pretty sure if the 9/11 attackers were women, and they claimed “battered wife syndrome” as a motive for the attacks, I’m sure people would have sympathized with them.

        • Lea Tapp

          Battered spouse syndrome is not an excuse. It is a literal fear for one’s life at the hands of an abuser and it is not limited to women.
          Really? If the terrorists who murdered thousands has crashed planes into the towers, you think people would assume they were battered spouses had they been women?
          You really are such a disgusting misogynist that you’d make a hyperbolic, fantastical statement about a real tragedy with a known cause completely unrelated to abused women defending themselves against abusers just to insult women, wouldn’t you?
          You Misogynist Rape Advocates really are lowlifes.

          • Geary

            Plus, battered spouse syndrome doesn’t hold up in court unless the spouse was defending themselves from their abuser in the specific altercation, given that it’s technically vigilantism otherwise, so this fantasy about women being able to get away with everything is literally false.

          • Kimski

            You’re really on the verge of exploding into screaming hairpulling hysteria, are you not?

          • Paul

            Battered wife syndrome is recognized by the legal system as a legal defense or legal excuse in criminal cases. It’s used to either have the woman found not guilty or to reduce her jail sentence greatly. While I understand its history, it’s far too abused today.

      • Ohone

        Don’t be making false accusations.

      • Andybob

        All you hear are “excuses for hitting women from the MRA crowd?”

        Really?

        That’s probably because the only people you ever listen to are other feminists who don’t know anything about the MHRM either. Or, it could just be the voices in your head – I suggest you get that seen to as soon as possible.

        This kind of hysterical twaddle does more to discredit feminism than we ever could. Thank you for your contribution.

    • Lea Tapp

      Neither, He represented the comments accurately.

    • Nor

      Men can’t hit men either. It’s assault no matter who you punch.

  • Aanna1123

    And we wonder how our young men become abusers. It’s the ideas from these XY’s (no real men here) that get them started!

  • Katie MunchmaQuchi Smith

    I don’t really like people laughing this stuff off as just a bunch of angry, misguided wankers. They’re half right, but the part of shrugging it off is the problem. These attitudes are insidious, dangerous, and, worse, expanding! Sure, it’s only a handful of people now, but I guarantee you next year it will be more, then the next year it will be more than that, and so on and so forth….and no, not because men are treated worse than slaves or Jim Crowe era emancipated slaves, but because they see any time anything good happens to a woman, it’s because she somehow “stole” it from. A woman works hard, gets a good job, gets equal pay, she “stole” a paycheck from an honest man….and if he goes home and beats her, that should be ok because she pushed him to the limit. This is DANGEROUS! Saudi Arabia didn’t happen overnight folks….and, btw, MRAs think that because the US is not YET like Saudi Arabia, that anyone not on their side should just shut up because we have it “too good.” Um….do we need to wait for it to get like Saudi Arabia before men grant us permission to speak up again?

    • bebow

      The group sounds Neanderthalic, not Arabic. Females should be more selective to avoid entanglements with inadequate males who obviously can’t handle their business. These Neanderthals have no game whatsoever in the absence of females.

    • Hosfac

      The actual problem has literally nothing to do with “shrugging it off.” The problem is that there is a kernel of truth in every point raised here.

      • And that’s how they garner attention. It’s how every fringe group who likes to yell into microphones loudly gets anywhere – they start with a base amount of truth and then grossly distort it, abuse it and refuse to reexamine it.

        • Kimski

          You mean like it happened with feminism, and every other ideologically driven supremacy movement in history, right?

          • I didn’t say anything about feminism (although if you think it has to do with supremacy, go get a dictionary) but I was speaking about a lot of groups and feminism does fall into it- those with the loudest microphone tend to be short on fact and high on crazy.

          • Kimski

            Seems to me that microphone is increasingly in the hands of someone other than the ones who has owned the discourse on the genders for some 60 years now, that’s all.
            Nice with a bit of sanity for a change, actually.

          • It’s probably healthy for all large movements to have a change in who holds the microphone, keeps everybody on track and lets us as people help determine the general flow of whatever movement we want to support.

          • Kimski

            Completely agreed. Censorship of dissent never solved anything. It actually just adds to the overall disagreements on issues.

          • Lea Tapp

            I’m sure it does. But then, feminism seems like a “supremacy movement”. You don’t brain so good.

          • Kimski

            Same thing can be said about your sentence structuring and grammar. It’s my experience it comes with the ideology. Some sort of neural damage or cognitive dissonace from brainwashing.

          • Lea Tapp

            Feminism is not a supremacy movement. Pretending it is does not help you look like you are actually concerned from men in need. It only shows that you’re lying, reactionary bigots trying to hide behind a thin veneer of feigned compassion.

          • Ohone

            If feminism wasn’t a supremacy movement, it wouldn’t ignore areas where women are more equal. while pushing for women to be equal in the areas they are not.

            If feminism wasn’t a supremacist movement, feminists wouldn’t spit on male equality issues.

          • Geary

            “If the civil rights movement wasn’t a supremacy movement, it wouldn’t ignore areas where blacks are more equal. while pushing for blacks to be equal in the areas they are not.”

          • AMRA

            Sorry but I don’t think that black people were ever given special treatment like women have been while claiming to be oppressed.

          • Nor

            Supreme Court disagrees – affirmative action.

          • Ohone

            I didn’t say the civil rights movement was a supremacy movement.

            Blacks are not more equal any where, while women are more equal in all markers of well being and men dominate those of hardship in the same way white people are more equal in all markers of well being and men dominate those of hardship. So your analogy doesn’t work

            Black people, shortest lives, most addiction, least education, longer sentences etc.

            Women, longest lives, least addiction, more education, largest sentencing discount etc.

          • Nor

            We live longer and have less addiction due to genetics. We have more education because we earn less and it’s the only way to make up the gap – men w/ a high school education, at least until recently, can do quite well in trades not traditionally open to women. Sentencing discount might be because women are less likely to commit violent crimes (or crime in general, so that they are also more likely to be on a first offense).

          • Ohone

            You don’t live longer due to superior genetics, monks and nuns lives are near equal. You live longer for the same reasons the upper classes live longer, you can opt for easier lives.

            You don’t earn less, the women that make the gap are married women that can afford to chose to work less because they and their partner share incomes, and wage doesn’t count child support and alimony and other relationship male to female transfers.

            You get more education for the same reason the upper classes do, privilege.

            Trades and all the dangerous jobs are open to women, women tend to see themselves as above getting into sewers and so on.

            The sentencing discount for women is greater than that for white people verses black people. Do you argue that black people should get harsher sentences for the same crime because black people are more likely to commit crime?

            Women commit most family violence, yet they get discounts, excuses and cover ups with manipulation of stastics.

          • Kimski

            Oh, don’t presume that that passion in any way extends to you. That would be a major mistake.

          • Kimski

            Feminism thrives on the constant villification of a certain percentage of the demographic, as well as presenting women as perpetual victims. In the first case it’s completely similar to the Nazi’s as an ideology.
            You guys just need the armbands and a Führer to salute. I hear she’ll be running for office in the next election, if her record of crimes doesn’t catch up with her before that.

          • Sagamanus

            You talking about your own movement here?

          • Kimski

            Seek help. Those cogs are still loose. Even I can hear it now.

          • Nor

            So does the MRM.

    • Kimski

      Let’s just PANIC right now, why don’t we!?
      That would solve everything.

  • JaneDoe99

    7 ugly observations about conference on men’s rights in metro Detroit
    1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 8, 7, 9. Pardon my naivete, but was the misnumbering part of the humor?

    • Peter Wright

      Lol

  • Kimski

    *snif* Thank you, Steve! *snif*
    I haven’t had this much fun since I watched a Bill Burr marathon on Youtube. You did it again, only so much better this time. May I respectfully suggest a career in stand-up comedy? You’re a natural, dude!

  • RubberPunch

    I have a mental image of a man with a cap, flinging his arms wildly, going through a china shop…

  • Peter Wright

    This article has to be about the funniest attempt at a takedown I’ve ever read. It quotes such extreme comments from AVfM staff, and pulls out such outlandish humor quotes from AVfM, attempting to paint them as serious, that most people are going to read it, get a big belly laugh, and come visit AVfm for some more entertainment.

    You’ve outdone yourself this time, Steve…. this one is a flop, unlike your previous ones that people could have been fooled by. But a great boon for AVfM.

    A word of advice – sometimes subtlety works better at fooling people than going all out.

    Thanks again, Peter Wright (AVfM staff member).

    • Guest

      Hahahaha…. you had to have a half attended “conference” at a VFW during fishfly season. Tell me more about “flops.”

    • Biot

      “Humor quotes”?
      I look at the examples posted and I don’t see anything worth laughing about. I don’t even want to go to your website to see those quotes in context. If I were to go there, it would be to see the slow-motion car crash that is AVFM.

      • Shaenon K. Garrity

        What’s more hilarious than posting an underage girl’s selfie with a caption mocking her for not wanting to be raped? I’m laughing so hard right now. Also it has so much to do with men’s rights.

    • Nikkie

      Oh. Oh they were just being humorous when they called people whores and cunts all weekend, laughed at rape jokes, and used a leaked picture of an underage girl in her underwear to mock women. Well that makes it totally acceptable then. You guys sure are worth taking seriously now!

      • Andybob

        Calling “people whores and cunts all weekend…”? More dishonesty and hysteria, Nikkie with two ‘k’s and an ‘e’. Methinks it’s time for lie-down.

    • Geary

      ‘Fucking [a woman’s] shit up’ giving Paul Elam, in his own words, ‘an erection’ is a ‘humor quote’?

      A giant story about how domestic violence against women is totally justified is a ‘humor quote’?

      Saying that men should beat women to an inch of their life for perceived slights if it wasn’t illegal is a ‘humor quote’?